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Post by johneaztec on Dec 16, 2021 23:13:02 GMT -8
Ok. Now, the question that's out there is did Meadows deliver those texts to Trump? Don't know all the facts. I'm going to research FACTS more. The other thing that I don't understand is if Trump wanted that full scale riot, why say ANYTHING about being peaceful and patriotic about the March? I don't believe that he wanted a riot, and for someone to get hurt, but I do believe that his ego enjoyed what was happening until it got out of hand. So, I'm just saying that I don't think he wanted that riot, and I don't think he promoted it. I don't think he thought it would reach the heights it did. I know he loved seeing how many people were for him though and that stroked his ego. Hate to say it John..and you're a good guy, but you are basically saying you are ok with it. I can see how you could interpret it that way, for sure. No matter who the person may be, one of my biggest pet peeves is when a human being is not treated fairly, and I'm not afraid to bring it up. I may be wrong sometimes in what I'm trying to achieve, but I won't blatantly accept something when there could be two sides. It gets me in trouble sometimes. Having said that, and as Ryan pointed out, it does not look good when your own son has to go to another individual to tell you stop something of this nature. I'm not commenting on this any further, nor sticking up for Trump on this issue any longer. I feel, sometimes, that he is not treated fairly, though. I'm done. By the way I enjoy our interaction on this site as well. You are fair to me, and I respond to that better. Thanks
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Post by johneaztec on Dec 16, 2021 23:13:41 GMT -8
Ok. Now, the question that's out there is did Meadows deliver those texts to Trump? Don't know all the facts. I'm going to research FACTS more. The other thing that I don't understand is if Trump wanted that full scale riot, why say ANYTHING about being peaceful and patriotic about the March? I don't believe that he wanted a riot, and for someone to get hurt, but I do believe that his ego enjoyed what was happening until it got out of hand. So, I'm just saying that I don't think he wanted that riot, and I don't think he promoted it. I don't think he thought it would reach the heights it did. I know he loved seeing how many people were for him though and that stroked his ego. You're once again getting caught up in the mundane and skipping what's important. Who cares whether Meadows delivered the texts or not? The fact is they were made. Whether they were followed or not is inconsequential to the events that happened. We know exactly what transpired that day, from the tracking of people on the ground to the photographic and video evidence that has been presented. Did you think a peaceful march outside the Capitol was going to delay the certification of the vote? Use some common sense here. That was the end goal of the president's mission.. Here's an important excerpt from the transcript of the speech: "All of us here today do not want to see our election victory stolen by emboldened radical-left Democrats, which is what they're doing. And stolen by the fake news media. That's what they've done and what they're doing. We will never give up, we will never concede. It doesn't happen. You don't concede when there's theft involved. Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore and that's what this is all about. And to use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with: We will stop the steal. Today I will lay out just some of the evidence proving that we won this election and we won it by a landslide. This was not a close election." "We will not take it anymore." "We will stop the steal." Common sense here tells me that again, having knowledge of much of the president's base of support...this isn't a call for peaceful action. It's stoking flames of an already large fire to what was essentially a mob of angry, gullible Trumpers. Let us not forget the rally was the endgame of weeks and weeks of lies, stoking that base up with myths of voter fraud and stolen elections. So speaking of facts, here's what we know... Over a dozen GOP members of Congress have had their phone records and electronic records subpoenaed. These include Boebert, who gave the Capitol tour; Gosar, Brooks and Biggs, who planned the rally with Ali Alexander; Jim Jordan, who we know had dialogue with the president at least twice on January 6th, during the insurrection and before. Trump met with rally organizers January 4th in the White House private dining room. The National Guard was put in place to protect pro-Trump rioters. Meadows and Trump both lied, more than once, about the orders of the Guard on January 6th. (10,000 troops was the number Meadows threw out, which was completely unfounded and bogus, as the DoD confirmed later on) He knew what he was doing. You make very good points, Ryan.
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Post by aztecryan on Dec 16, 2021 23:21:08 GMT -8
You're once again getting caught up in the mundane and skipping what's important. Who cares whether Meadows delivered the texts or not? The fact is they were made. Whether they were followed or not is inconsequential to the events that happened. We know exactly what transpired that day, from the tracking of people on the ground to the photographic and video evidence that has been presented. Did you think a peaceful march outside the Capitol was going to delay the certification of the vote? Use some common sense here. That was the end goal of the president's mission.. Here's an important excerpt from the transcript of the speech: "All of us here today do not want to see our election victory stolen by emboldened radical-left Democrats, which is what they're doing. And stolen by the fake news media. That's what they've done and what they're doing. We will never give up, we will never concede. It doesn't happen. You don't concede when there's theft involved. Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore and that's what this is all about. And to use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with: We will stop the steal. Today I will lay out just some of the evidence proving that we won this election and we won it by a landslide. This was not a close election." "We will not take it anymore." "We will stop the steal." Common sense here tells me that again, having knowledge of much of the president's base of support...this isn't a call for peaceful action. It's stoking flames of an already large fire to what was essentially a mob of angry, gullible Trumpers. Let us not forget the rally was the endgame of weeks and weeks of lies, stoking that base up with myths of voter fraud and stolen elections. So speaking of facts, here's what we know... Over a dozen GOP members of Congress have had their phone records and electronic records subpoenaed. These include Boebert, who gave the Capitol tour; Gosar, Brooks and Biggs, who planned the rally with Ali Alexander; Jim Jordan, who we know had dialogue with the president at least twice on January 6th, during the insurrection and before. Trump met with rally organizers January 4th in the White House private dining room. The National Guard was put in place to protect pro-Trump rioters. Meadows and Trump both lied, more than once, about the orders of the Guard on January 6th. (10,000 troops was the number Meadows threw out, which was completely unfounded and bogus, as the DoD confirmed later on) He knew what he was doing. You make very good points, Ryan. On this issue, because of the magnitude and sheer issues it represents, it's not about political partisanship. It's about the truth. I've studied history. Pick a dictator. Pinochet, Pol Pot, Mussolini, Hitler, Batista, Idi Amin...the list goes on. The common thread is power and the control of the propaganda narrative. Let's call this for what it is: A poorly orchestrated coup attempt by a desperate individual who looks like he will escape without consequences. The true facts of this case, including the thought that punishing members of the administration could lead to future DOJ consequences is unnerving. Frankly, it's terrifying.
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Post by ptsdthor on Dec 17, 2021 8:41:03 GMT -8
Protect from whom? Antifa? Talk of looking silly. The call for the National Guard to maintain peace and order actually undercuts the loonie narrative SMH. There is a difference between Democrat Government Lifers and Political Appointees. Who does the actual investigations in the FBI? If the rank and file found evidence of coordination, no political appointee could say otherwise and get away with it with these "stalwarts" occupying our Government. Oh, and as far as Trump's speech that day...I thought you meant to reference "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard today." Oh the horrors!! If the House of Representative's Show Trial was in a court of law, Adam Schiff would be the first one to be arrested - for doctoring evidence. It is not a trial but only political theater. Pelosi hand picked everyone on the committee for a reason. The cowards do not want anyone to ask the wrong question, bring exculpatory evidence, make the wrong statement, counter the narrative one iota. And Thank God for the Founding Fathers for giving us the right to remain silent to the presumed innocent. It is absolutely a Soviet Show trial. Most of the people you reference no longer work in the FBI, so, um....Nope. Pelosi didn't handpick the entire committee...at all. Do you really believe this stuff? The GOP nominated two of their own, who have both been since implicated in the actual plot. So, yeah, that's not feasible. And your Trump quote is hilarious. I can't tell if this is just bad attempts at trolling or you're seriously convinced of something that isn't there. So we have it straight here from your perspective - the FBI is no longer to be trusted with the duties of investigation and law enforcement because of Chris Wray. Pelosi didn't hand pick Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger to be part of the committee (but the "GOP" somehow did) and when you are making a "Plan B" for the take over of the Capital to stop the electoral vote count, you request 10,000 National Guardsmen (that would be inclined to stop a riot/breach by the way) to assist? Is that about it? nypost.com/2021/07/25/pelosi-says-she-plans-to-name-republicans-to-capitol-riot-panel/www.cnbc.com/2021/07/01/pelosi-names-liz-cheney-other-members-of-jan-6-committee-to-probe-pro-trump-riot.html"Pelosi didn't handpick the entire committee...at all. Do you really believe this stuff?" SMH And regarding the National Guard - Some media says they were never requested (because to admit it would be exculpatory of a plot to breach the capital) yet now the narrative is that he did request the National Guard as some sort of Storm Trooper brigade. Which is it? Nut jobs indeed!
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Post by aztecryan on Dec 17, 2021 9:05:49 GMT -8
Most of the people you reference no longer work in the FBI, so, um....Nope. Pelosi didn't handpick the entire committee...at all. Do you really believe this stuff? The GOP nominated two of their own, who have both been since implicated in the actual plot. So, yeah, that's not feasible. And your Trump quote is hilarious. I can't tell if this is just bad attempts at trolling or you're seriously convinced of something that isn't there. So we have it straight here from your perspective - the FBI is no longer to be trusted with the duties of investigation and law enforcement because of Chris Wray. Pelosi didn't hand pick Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger to be part of the committee (but the "GOP" somehow did) and when you are making a "Plan B" for the take over of the Capital to stop the electoral vote count, you request 10,000 National Guardsmen (that would be inclined to stop a riot/breach by the way) to assist? Is that about it? nypost.com/2021/07/25/pelosi-says-she-plans-to-name-republicans-to-capitol-riot-panel/www.cnbc.com/2021/07/01/pelosi-names-liz-cheney-other-members-of-jan-6-committee-to-probe-pro-trump-riot.html"Pelosi didn't handpick the entire committee...at all. Do you really believe this stuff?" SMH And regarding the National Guard - Some media says they were never requested (because to admit it would be exculpatory of a plot to breach the capital) yet now the narrative is that he did request the National Guard as some sort of Storm Trooper brigade. Which is it? Nut jobs indeed! As usual, you're failing here. Jordan and Banks were nominated by Kevin McCarthy - Of course they were denied because of their obvious link to January 6th itself. You can't have the corrupt investigating themselves. Kinzinger and Cheney are GOP'ers with common sense. Let's root out the real problem here: They don't kiss Trump's ass, so they can't possibly be impartial. Yeah, I'll pass on that narrative. The FBI was muzzled by Trump, as the previous link illustrated. That's what happens when you appoint Loyalists, so yes, they are not to be trusted. The Kavanaugh sham investigation to turn the SCOTUS into a kangaroo court is evidence of that directly. Doesn't take much if you read the details of what they failed to do. And your last point is misleading. nypost.com/2021/04/11/pence-pleaded-with-the-military-to-clear-the-capitol/According to Meadows himself in his own email, the Guard was on standby to protect Trump supporters.
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Post by ptsdthor on Dec 17, 2021 9:27:06 GMT -8
So we have it straight here from your perspective - the FBI is no longer to be trusted with the duties of investigation and law enforcement because of Chris Wray. Pelosi didn't hand pick Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger to be part of the committee (but the "GOP" somehow did) and when you are making a "Plan B" for the take over of the Capital to stop the electoral vote count, you request 10,000 National Guardsmen (that would be inclined to stop a riot/breach by the way) to assist? Is that about it? nypost.com/2021/07/25/pelosi-says-she-plans-to-name-republicans-to-capitol-riot-panel/www.cnbc.com/2021/07/01/pelosi-names-liz-cheney-other-members-of-jan-6-committee-to-probe-pro-trump-riot.html"Pelosi didn't handpick the entire committee...at all. Do you really believe this stuff?" SMH And regarding the National Guard - Some media says they were never requested (because to admit it would be exculpatory of a plot to breach the capital) yet now the narrative is that he did request the National Guard as some sort of Storm Trooper brigade. Which is it? Nut jobs indeed! As usual, you're failing here. Jordan and Banks were nominated by Kevin McCarthy - Of course they were denied because of their obvious link to January 6th itself. You can't have the corrupt investigating themselves. Kinzinger and Cheney are GOP'ers with common sense. Let's root out the real problem here: They don't kiss Trump's ass, so they can't possibly be impartial. Yeah, I'll pass on that narrative. The FBI was muzzled by Trump, as the previous link illustrated. That's what happens when you appoint Loyalists, so yes, they are not to be trusted. The Kavanaugh sham investigation to turn the SCOTUS into a kangaroo court is evidence of that directly. Doesn't take much if you read the details of what they failed to do. And your last point is misleading. nypost.com/2021/04/11/pence-pleaded-with-the-military-to-clear-the-capitol/According to Meadows himself in his own email, the Guard was on standby to protect Trump supporters. You said "Pelosi didn't handpick the entire committee...at all." In fact, She picked every one. They were all her call after she rejected McCarthy's list. You are flailing here. So you agree with me that our Government employees are turning this country a Banana Republic evidenced by your assertion that our leading National law enforcement arm is not trustworthy because of who is working there. I have a similar takes on many other aspects of our Government. Like the DoJ is corrupt as they are now going after Free Speech as a form of Domestic Terrorism. So lets say we agree to some extent here. Sorry, your chronology is all wrong. Pence's request came after the riot was under way. The loonie conspiracy theory is that Trump requested troops to assist in some sort of Plan B if the count continued. Requesting National Guard troops apriori would denote a desire for a peaceful protest unless, of course, the National Guard was expected to be part of the breach. Is that your assertion?
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Post by aztecryan on Dec 17, 2021 9:40:41 GMT -8
As usual, you're failing here. Jordan and Banks were nominated by Kevin McCarthy - Of course they were denied because of their obvious link to January 6th itself. You can't have the corrupt investigating themselves. Kinzinger and Cheney are GOP'ers with common sense. Let's root out the real problem here: They don't kiss Trump's ass, so they can't possibly be impartial. Yeah, I'll pass on that narrative. The FBI was muzzled by Trump, as the previous link illustrated. That's what happens when you appoint Loyalists, so yes, they are not to be trusted. The Kavanaugh sham investigation to turn the SCOTUS into a kangaroo court is evidence of that directly. Doesn't take much if you read the details of what they failed to do. And your last point is misleading. nypost.com/2021/04/11/pence-pleaded-with-the-military-to-clear-the-capitol/According to Meadows himself in his own email, the Guard was on standby to protect Trump supporters. You said "Pelosi didn't handpick the entire committee...at all." In fact, She picked every one. They were all her call after she rejected McCarthy's list. You are flailing here. So you agree with me that our Government employees are turning this country a Banana Republic evidenced by your assertion that our leading National law enforcement arm is not trustworthy because of who is working there. I have a similar takes on many other aspects of our Government. Like the DoJ is corrupt as they are now going after Free Speech as a form of Domestic Terrorism. So lets say we agree to some extent here. Sorry, your chronology is all wrong. Pence's request came after the riot was under way. The loonie conspiracy theory is that Trump requested troops to assist in some sort of Plan B if the count continued. Requesting National Guard troops apriori would denote a desire for a peaceful protest unless, of course, the National Guard was expected to be part of the breach. Is that your assertion? You're conflating two different things here. The email by Meadows on January 5th plainly stated that the Guard would be on standby to protect Trump supporters. That's his own assertion and as the president's COS, he'd be privy to that information. That's obviously an egregious offense that speaks for itself. Requesting troops for crowd control or traffic safety is a different task entirely.
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Post by ptsdthor on Dec 17, 2021 13:20:35 GMT -8
You said "Pelosi didn't handpick the entire committee...at all." In fact, She picked every one. They were all her call after she rejected McCarthy's list. You are flailing here. So you agree with me that our Government employees are turning this country a Banana Republic evidenced by your assertion that our leading National law enforcement arm is not trustworthy because of who is working there. I have a similar takes on many other aspects of our Government. Like the DoJ is corrupt as they are now going after Free Speech as a form of Domestic Terrorism. So lets say we agree to some extent here. Sorry, your chronology is all wrong. Pence's request came after the riot was under way. The loonie conspiracy theory is that Trump requested troops to assist in some sort of Plan B if the count continued. Requesting National Guard troops apriori would denote a desire for a peaceful protest unless, of course, the National Guard was expected to be part of the breach. Is that your assertion? You're conflating two different things here. The email by Meadows on January 5th plainly stated that the Guard would be on standby to protect Trump supporters. That's his own assertion and as the president's COS, he'd be privy to that information. That's obviously an egregious offense that speaks for itself. Requesting troops for crowd control or traffic safety is a different task entirely. So to be clear for us, you think that when Meadows offered the National Guard for the safety of the Trump supporters, he was actually in the throws of planning Plan B with the storming of the capital with the assistance of the National Guard? I get you believing that but others please raise your hand if you think that was actually the case there? And another thing...in so many words you think the FBI is corrupt but, by sheer faith alone, you know that the Secret Service is beyond reproach. How does that work?
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Post by aztecryan on Dec 18, 2021 16:17:38 GMT -8
You're conflating two different things here. The email by Meadows on January 5th plainly stated that the Guard would be on standby to protect Trump supporters. That's his own assertion and as the president's COS, he'd be privy to that information. That's obviously an egregious offense that speaks for itself. Requesting troops for crowd control or traffic safety is a different task entirely. So to be clear for us, you think that when Meadows offered the National Guard for the safety of the Trump supporters, he was actually in the throws of planning Plan B with the storming of the capital with the assistance of the National Guard? I get you believing that but others please raise your hand if you think that was actually the case there? And another thing...in so many words you think the FBI is corrupt but, by sheer faith alone, you know that the Secret Service is beyond reproach. How does that work? Using the National Guard for any purpose other than its de facto utilization is treasonous behavior. An egregious violation of the oath of office, period. I can't speak to the state of mind of Meadows, but we know from the evidence in the trial that the president sought to overturn the election results and that multiple members of the GOP are directly implicated in that effort. The Secret Service has one job: To protect the president/immediate family of the president/administrative detail. There's absolutely nothing corroborating Roger Stone's erroneous story that has any shred of credibility. The Secret Service, in Stone's own words, doesn't do "logistical tasks."
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 19, 2022 17:10:33 GMT -8
The Supreme Court voted 8-1 today to reject the former president's case to have the January 6th documents withheld from the committee. Clarence Thomas, whose wife is directly implicated in the events of January 6th, was the only dissenting vote.
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Post by aardvark on Jan 19, 2022 18:10:18 GMT -8
The Supreme Court voted 8-1 today to reject the former president's case to have the January 6th documents withheld from the committee. Clarence Thomas, whose wife is directly implicated in the events of January 6th, was the only dissenting vote. Interesting that the three Trump appointees were in the majority. Get on with it.
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 19, 2022 18:12:51 GMT -8
The Supreme Court voted 8-1 today to reject the former president's case to have the January 6th documents withheld from the committee. Clarence Thomas, whose wife is directly implicated in the events of January 6th, was the only dissenting vote. Interesting that the three Trump appointees were in the majority. Get on with it. I wouldn't go crazy...Kavanaugh wrote some babble that wasn't part of the majority opinion. Don't think it's going to be a crazy expedited process, but I'd bet a fair amount of Republicans are starting to sweat/not remember certain phone calls.
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Post by aardvark on Jan 19, 2022 18:30:44 GMT -8
Interesting that the three Trump appointees were in the majority. Get on with it. I wouldn't go crazy...Kavanaugh wrote some babble that wasn't part of the majority opinion. Don't think it's going to be a crazy expedited process, but I'd bet a fair amount of Republicans are starting to sweat/not remember certain phone calls. Yes, Kavanaugh did. But he wasn't opposed to the end result.
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 19, 2022 23:10:30 GMT -8
I wonder what part of the Congo Kentucky is in.
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Post by uwphoto on Jan 20, 2022 6:01:31 GMT -8
I wonder what part of the Congo Kentucky is in. Wow!!...just wow!!
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Jan 20, 2022 10:10:58 GMT -8
There's a bunch of these long in the tooth Obstructionist Republicants that need to retire. They have no desire to work across the aisle unless it totally benefits them and makes for a positve media moment. JMO
Come senators, congressmen Please heed the call Don't stand in the doorway Don't block up the hall....
Bob Dylan.
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Post by ptsdthor on Jan 20, 2022 11:15:22 GMT -8
There's a bunch of these long in the tooth Obstructionist Republicants that need to retire. They have no desire to work across the aisle unless it totally benefits them and makes for a positve media moment. JMO Come senators, congressmen Please heed the call Don't stand in the doorway Don't block up the hall.... Bob Dylan. Thankfully, some are heeding your call... fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-28-house-democrats-arent-running-again/
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 20, 2022 11:22:44 GMT -8
There's a bunch of these long in the tooth Obstructionist Republicants that need to retire. They have no desire to work across the aisle unless it totally benefits them and makes for a positve media moment. JMO Come senators, congressmen Please heed the call Don't stand in the doorway Don't block up the hall.... Bob Dylan. Thankfully, some are heeding your call... fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-28-house-democrats-arent-running-again/Unfortunate but expected based on historical norms. Shifting power towards Trump-induced sycophants isn't a good thing.
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Post by aardvark on Jan 20, 2022 14:22:26 GMT -8
Term Limits for Congress is not a bad thing.
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Post by aztecnails on Feb 14, 2022 8:16:05 GMT -8
John Durham documents shown in federal court proved hilary clinton and others spied on candidate Donald Trump. This is a bigger crime than Watergate.
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