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Post by fisher1fan on Jun 18, 2020 6:27:50 GMT -8
Not quite sure all of a sudden why he changed his mind. He’d been voicing support for the deal the last couple of months😲 I believe that he was quibbling with specific language in regard to what activities could be done on the property for fee/tax purposes. Literally, he wanted to change the language in one clause from "may" to "shall". Because such a change would require the whole reading process to start over, delaying the project, Sherman voted "no"; he then said the uncertainty of "may" vs. "shall" could cost the City of SD millions of dollars in developer fees in the future. My thought mirrors what was posted earlier: that Sherman wanted to vote "no" just in case something goes wrong so he can say I told you so. I'm glad that things are moving along, it is getting so close to being done. It will be a gamechanger for SDSU. Since millions are valuable and details matter, Is he right though? How much money would it cost to delay and who would it cost (sdsu or the city or both) Tools outstanding. |
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Post by fisher1fan on Jun 18, 2020 6:31:35 GMT -8
I will say it was nice that all these people were looking out for the San Diego tax payers. Where are all the reports about what the long term benefits of having this new SDSU campus and how the San Diego taxpayers are going to benefit or should I say the whole San Diego area. This is going to be a great asset to the whole San Diego community. The City of San Diego (Mission Valley) doesn't need more condos and traffic in the area. Just think if the city was more forward thinking and could have worked out some type of payment plan tax deferral program or something. This would have allowed for SDSU to have more money upfront to get more things started that much sooner. I know that this is a long term build out but once it gets started I think things will go pretty fast. Go Aztecs! Hurry Up SDSU West! Much of the “SDSU West” is comprised of non educational development (hotel, shopping, resulting in heavy traffic and I think I heard having condos too). <which is fine> Also, have you heard about the historic budget crisis that the city is facing due to CoVid? This city needs more upfront money, everyone does. Deferring taxes is not something that would be desired from their point of view. If SDSU wants a faster buildout, they can get a construction loan. |
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Post by sdsu2000 on Jun 18, 2020 6:42:36 GMT -8
It’s been a long journey. JD being killed on the radio. Landon Donovan making fun of SDSU, JD, Ziegler and just being obnoxious and lie after lie. The La Jolla moneymen who were doing everything out of the kindness of their hearts. SDSU West coming to life. SD radio hosts claiming we’d be playing at Grossmont college. The soccer bro’s. SDSU stayed the course and got the city onboard with the vision and not only won but did what a “billionaire” couldn’t do.
I can’t wait till we start moving dirt.
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Post by panammaniac on Jun 18, 2020 7:04:34 GMT -8
Bigger issue will be for budget of ground crew, natural grass (my choice) more maintenance cost and Turf more upfront cost. Each will have own pros and cons. I am from the old school, sports play on grass (this is So Cal!). I think it would be cool if we were known for having one of or if not the best field in college. This maybe is a good question for the medical/biomedical experts, never really looked into the (REAL) numbers on which is better/safer or which the players and coaches like. (needs vs wants?) I am not that up on the latest technology and pricing on fields these days so this is way above my pay-grade, i just know that this field is going to used by more then just football. If I remember correctly a while back, we had the same conversation/thread. Real Grass is safer & preferred by athletes. More upkeep but worth it. NMSU switched from grass to turf a few years ago, and NMSU is an ag school. There was this huge discussion over how embarrassing it is for an ag school to be putting in fake grass. It boiled down to the fact that no matter how good of an ag person you are, you can’t make grass grow and stay green in Las Cruces, NM in October and November. The field always looked like crap for the later in the season home games. The only way to do it with natural grass is to completely re-sod with a winter variety mid-season, which of course isn’t feasible. And even then, all it takes is a good snow (yes, it does snow in Las Cruces sometimes) and your new grass is trashed. Ultimately it came down to a few things. Cost vs natural grass is about the same. Turf still requires maintenance, but the annual groundskeeping cost vs grass is quite a bit less. What you do have to consider is the life of a turf field is about 10 years, so you have to factor that cost in. Replacement isn’t nearly as expensive as new turf but it’s still considerable. By the time you factor that in, plus the initial installation cost, the total cost over 10 years is about a wash. The pluses - it definitely holds up better. All of the local high school games used to be played at NMSU, but they kicked them out about 10-15 years ago other than the annual big LCHS vs Mayfield rivalry game that draws over 30k (that game was written up in Sports Illustrated as one of the 10 biggest HS rivalry games in the country). Once the city grew and had 3 high schools, the field just couldn’t handle that much football even under the best of conditions. The city built a shared stadium for all of the high school games. Now the city has a 4th high school and the shared HS stadium isn’t enough, so they’re back to playing some of the bigger games at Aggie Memorial. It’s no longer an issue with turf. You can play games on there all day long and have any other events in there with no worries. Soccer games, concerts, band competitions, you name it. It holds up and stays green and looking nice year round, rain or shine. Get a huge rain or snow storm, squeegee the water into the French drain and it’s good as new. In most cases it’s softer than natural grass. Some natural grass field are rock hard. It seems to me that getting tackled on a turf field would be a little more comfortable than a rock hard grass field. The minuses are that it’s hotter than natural grass, and it’s fake. Spend some time walking on it and you’ll come home with your shoes full of tiny little black rubber balls. Inhaling that crap after getting tackled is probably not much fun. There’s a lot of conflicting studies out there as to which is safer. Most of the latest research seems to indicate that a well maintained field turf field is safer because it’s more consistent, but of course there’s always debate over the scientific methods used in the studies and the assumptions that were used. It's more "grass-like" now in terms of performance, not like the older stuff that was literally a carpet. It’s probably about a wash in terms of safety. I’m of the school of thought that if horses can’t eat it you shouldn’t be playing sports on it, but I totally get why most major universities and even a lot of high schools now have gone to it. If it’s a multi-purpose venue and you don’t want to worry about keeping the field consistent and looking nice, then turf is the way to go. If you want to have a major soccer event, you can always roll out a carpet of natural grass over it. Not that I’m suggesting turf for your new stadium, but there’s a number of things that go into the consideration. |
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Post by hoobs on Jun 18, 2020 7:30:57 GMT -8
Hosting any international soccer will almost certainly require grass. MLS definitely has a preference, though not a requirement, for grass. As I think there's a good chance both are in the long-term plans for the stadium... grass seems to make the most sense.
However, objectively... if people would get rid of their bias against what turf used to be 10-15 years ago, honestly turf would be better and smarter.
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Post by zollner on Jun 18, 2020 8:21:23 GMT -8
When the pro football league had a franchise here the field the franchise played was one of the most player friendly fields in the league. It was often referred to by John Madden who always raved about it's quality and player friendliness. Kudos to the ground crew and the weather and the climate.
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Post by aztecfred on Jun 18, 2020 8:25:56 GMT -8
Hope it's at least as good as the one at Petco. (Scoreboard)
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Post by AzTex on Jun 18, 2020 9:28:22 GMT -8
You must be one of our younger members. Otherwise you'd remember how we were blown away when we first saw the stadium scoreboard. It was definitely "state of the art" at the time. Most of us had never seen a video screen like that in a stadium. The was long before hi-def video and the video on that screen looked great. It was as good as we had at home only much bigger.
Based on today's standards, the old scoreboard isn't really acceptable. I' confident that the new stadium scoreboards will be hi-def and great, both of them.
The new scoreboards were cool for awhile. Damn are we getting old or what. We have to explain that the old Mission Valley (I like The Murph) stadium use to be state of the art (well kind of) with the exception that we had to walk up-hill both ways in the snow just to see a game! and no we didn't use horse and buggy, so don't ask! The old gal has seen her better days and needs a proper send off, I really hope something special can be done to see her off correctly. Something like a BIG KGB firework show with the Grand Finale being blowing/up imploding the entire stadium with the San Diego/KGB/SDSU Alumni chicken flipping the switch. Nothing fancy just some good old home town stuff, low key fun. Yes, we're getting old, some of us at least including me. That comment along with everything else in your post is right on. |
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Post by AzTex on Jun 18, 2020 9:36:02 GMT -8
I am 71 (class of '72), so I don't think I'm one of the younger members. I attended the 1st Padres game and the 1st Aztecs game ever played in Mission Valley. I remember hating the stadium expansion, even though I realized it was the only way for San Diego to host a Super Bowl. I wouldn't say I was blown away by the new scoreboard when first installed, but it was an improvement. But that was then and this is now. The "Q" had one of the worst scoreboards in the NFL, and didn't meet the standards of later day college stadiums. I don't expect to replicate the scoreboards at Petco. All I'm saying is that I hope we can improve on what we had at the "Q". You're only 4 years younger than me. I don't know what you were comparing the video board to when San Diego Stadium first opened, but I'm sure the vast majority of us were really impressed with it. Yes, buy the time is was the "Q" the scoreboard was dated.
You do remember that we tried to get the scoreboard updated, but the Chargers wouldn't go along with us, don't you.
In any event, I do believe the new scoreboards will be very much improved, even if not at the Petco level.
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Post by aardvark on Jun 18, 2020 9:56:31 GMT -8
It’s been a long journey. JD being killed on the radio. Landon Donovan making fun of SDSU, JD, Ziegler and just being obnoxious and lie after lie. The La Jolla moneymen who were doing everything out of the kindness of their hearts. SDSU West coming to life. SD radio hosts claiming we’d be playing at Grossmont college. The soccer bro’s. SDSU stayed the course and got the city onboard with the vision and not only won but did what a “billionaire” couldn’t do. I can’t wait till we start moving dirt. The best part is, if SD Loyal (currently coached by Landon Donovan) outgrows Torero Stadium, there is only one other stadium they can play in locally in 2022. The new Aztec Stadium. |
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Post by hoobs on Jun 18, 2020 11:23:10 GMT -8
It’s been a long journey. JD being killed on the radio. Landon Donovan making fun of SDSU, JD, Ziegler and just being obnoxious and lie after lie. The La Jolla moneymen who were doing everything out of the kindness of their hearts. SDSU West coming to life. SD radio hosts claiming we’d be playing at Grossmont college. The soccer bro’s. SDSU stayed the course and got the city onboard with the vision and not only won but did what a “billionaire” couldn’t do. I can’t wait till we start moving dirt. The best part is, if SD Loyal (currently coached by Landon Donovan) outgrows Torero Stadium, there is only one other stadium they can play in locally in 2022. The new Aztec Stadium. Ohhhh, I would be DELIGHTED to see Landon Donovan having to make some public statements praising SDSU and SDSU West with his USL team becoming new stadium tennants.  |
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Post by Den60 on Jun 18, 2020 12:42:23 GMT -8
The best part is, if SD Loyal (currently coached by Landon Donovan) outgrows Torero Stadium, there is only one other stadium they can play in locally in 2022. The new Aztec Stadium. Ohhhh, I would be DELIGHTED to see Landon Donovan having to make some public statements praising SDSU and SDSU West with his USL team becoming new stadium tennants. Why, simply because he was for Soccer City? |
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Post by AzTex on Jun 18, 2020 13:06:39 GMT -8
Ohhhh, I would be DELIGHTED to see Landon Donovan having to make some public statements praising SDSU and SDSU West with his USL team becoming new stadium tennants. Why, simply because he was for Soccer City? Sounds like a good enough reason for me. |
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Post by Den60 on Jun 18, 2020 14:18:00 GMT -8
Why, simply because he was for Soccer City? Sounds like a good enough reason for me. Let's see, a soccer player - former US Team and MLS player - back a proposal to bring a MSL team to San Diego. That proposal was supported early by SDSU who decided later on to go with another partner. I don't see any reason to hate him for that. |
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Post by aardvark on Jun 18, 2020 14:29:07 GMT -8
Sounds like a good enough reason for me. Let's see, a soccer player - former US Team and MLS player - back a proposal to bring a MSL team to San Diego. That proposal was supported early by SDSU who decided later on to go with another partner. I don't see any reason to hate him for that. After what Donovan said regarding SDSU while the two proposals were still competing for the stadium property, it would indeed be very entertaining to hear Donovan talk about the new Aztec Stadium, should his USL team ever get popular enough to have to move to it. |
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Post by PAC12 Aztec on Jun 18, 2020 16:33:14 GMT -8
Sounds like a good enough reason for me. Let's see, a soccer player - former US Team and MLS player - back a proposal to bring a MSL team to San Diego. That proposal was supported early by SDSU who decided later on to go with another partner. I don't see any reason to hate him for that. Well, when you put it like that. 😁 But he did have some very unflattering things to say about State. It would be interesting to hear what he has to say if the team outgrew USD and the move to Aztec stadium was needed. I guess maybe we could consider... just maybe. 😂 |
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Post by aztecfanatic on Jun 18, 2020 18:06:41 GMT -8
I don't remember what he said but I remember being VERY angry at him for saying it. He spewed some very nasty things about SDSU and I will never forget it. To each his own I guess.
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Post by aztecfred on Jun 18, 2020 18:30:59 GMT -8
I am 71 (class of '72), so I don't think I'm one of the younger members. I attended the 1st Padres game and the 1st Aztecs game ever played in Mission Valley. I remember hating the stadium expansion, even though I realized it was the only way for San Diego to host a Super Bowl. I wouldn't say I was blown away by the new scoreboard when first installed, but it was an improvement. But that was then and this is now. The "Q" had one of the worst scoreboards in the NFL, and didn't meet the standards of later day college stadiums. I don't expect to replicate the scoreboards at Petco. All I'm saying is that I hope we can improve on what we had at the "Q". You're only 4 years younger than me. I don't know what you were comparing the video board to when San Diego Stadium first opened, but I'm sure the vast majority of us were really impressed with it. Yes, buy the time is was the "Q" the scoreboard was dated. You do remember that we tried to get the scoreboard updated, but the Chargers wouldn't go along with us, don't you. In any event, I do believe the new scoreboards will be very much improved, even if not at the Petco level.
was there a video board on the original scoreboard? |
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Post by aztecfred on Jun 18, 2020 18:33:34 GMT -8
The best part is, if SD Loyal (currently coached by Landon Donovan) outgrows Torero Stadium, there is only one other stadium they can play in locally in 2022. The new Aztec Stadium. Ohhhh, I would be DELIGHTED to see Landon Donovan having to make some public statements praising SDSU and SDSU West with his USL team becoming new stadium tennants. Doubt they will outgrow USD! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2020 18:33:39 GMT -8
Let's see, a soccer player - former US Team and MLS player - back a proposal to bring a MSL team to San Diego. That proposal was supported early by SDSU who decided later on to go with another partner. I don't see any reason to hate him for that. Well, when you put it like that. 😁 But he did have some very unflattering things to say about State. It would be interesting to hear what he has to say if the team outgrew USD and the move to Aztec stadium was needed. I guess maybe we could consider... just maybe. 😂 Never going to happen. A big $ group is going to bring an MLS team to Aztec stadium, and the Loyal is going to either go away, or be a distant second to the MLS club. Probably the former. |
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