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Post by aztec70 on Nov 27, 2010 11:46:20 GMT -8
That is one point of view, but I disagree for the most part. I think that this writer may have overstated the idea. Even in those days property was held in many different ways. Trusts and similar methods of ownership were in use. It is similar to the current idea that Warren Buffet says he wants higher tax rates on himself while employing many lawyers and accountants to make sure he is taxed as little as possible. He has given the bulk of his estate to The Gates Foundation. He knows, as should we all, that money is much more efficient in private hands than in the hands of government. Disagree with the Founding Fathers all you want. It just cements my opinion of your political philosophy. It is wrong, and against what made this country great. |
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Post by aztecwin on Nov 27, 2010 11:59:21 GMT -8
That is one point of view, but I disagree for the most part. I think that this writer may have overstated the idea. Even in those days property was held in many different ways. Trusts and similar methods of ownership were in use. It is similar to the current idea that Warren Buffet says he wants higher tax rates on himself while employing many lawyers and accountants to make sure he is taxed as little as possible. He has given the bulk of his estate to The Gates Foundation. He knows, as should we all, that money is much more efficient in private hands than in the hands of government. Disagree with the Founding Fathers all you want. It just cements my opinion of your political philosophy. It is wrong, and against what made this country great. Just what is it about destroying job creating wealth by filtering it through wasteful government that you think has made this country great. Our founding father held slaves. Does disagreeing with that also make me wrong? You have got to grow up a little and see that the Constitution is a great document, but that the differing opinions that came from people who had input might not have been the prevailing thought. Even were it the prevailing opinion at that time it would still be wrong. |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Nov 27, 2010 12:02:55 GMT -8
That is one point of view, but I disagree for the most part. I think that this writer may have overstated the idea. Even in those days property was held in many different ways. Trusts and similar methods of ownership were in use. It is similar to the current idea that Warren Buffet says he wants higher tax rates on himself while employing many lawyers and accountants to make sure he is taxed as little as possible. He has given the bulk of his estate to The Gates Foundation. He knows, as should we all, that money is much more efficient in private hands than in the hands of government. Disagree with the Founding Fathers all you want. It just cements my opinion of your political philosophy. It is wrong, and against what made this country great. Funny thing - they NEVER did a thing to stop people from leaving their money and property to their children. Not one law was voted on to do that. So all this talk about them being against people inheriting their parents' money and property is just a bunch of hot air. The founding fathers obviously didn't mean what you think they meant otherwise they would have taken action on it. Judge their actions. They did nothing to curtail inheritence. Not a single thing - and never brought it to either house of congress to be debated. |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 27, 2010 12:12:54 GMT -8
Disagree with the Founding Fathers all you want. It just cements my opinion of your political philosophy. It is wrong, and against what made this country great. Just what is it about destroying job creating wealth by filtering it through wasteful government that you think has made this country great. Our founding father held slaves. Does disagreeing with that also make me wrong? You have got to grow up a little and see that the Constitution is a great document, but that the differing opinions that came from people who had input might not have been the prevailing thought. Even were it the prevailing opinion at that time it would still be wrong. LOL |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 27, 2010 12:13:51 GMT -8
Disagree with the Founding Fathers all you want. It just cements my opinion of your political philosophy. It is wrong, and against what made this country great. Funny thing - they NEVER did a thing to stop people from leaving their money and property to their children. Not one law was voted on to do that. So all this talk about them being against people inheriting their parents' money and property is just a bunch of hot air. The founding fathers obviously didn't mean what you think they meant otherwise they would have taken action on it. Judge their actions. They did nothing to curtail inheritence. Not a single thing - and never brought it to either house of congress to be debated. Yes, they did. If you want to wallow in ignorance that is up to you.  |
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Post by aztecwin on Nov 27, 2010 12:19:00 GMT -8
Funny thing - they NEVER did a thing to stop people from leaving their money and property to their children. Not one law was voted on to do that. So all this talk about them being against people inheriting their parents' money and property is just a bunch of hot air. The founding fathers obviously didn't mean what you think they meant otherwise they would have taken action on it. Judge their actions. They did nothing to curtail inheritence. Not a single thing - and never brought it to either house of congress to be debated. Yes, they did. If you want to wallow in ignorance that is up to you. Erick, you stand on one side of Aztec70 and look in one ear. I will stand on the other and I will bet we see right through him and see eye to eye. Hope it is not spooky!  |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Nov 27, 2010 12:32:31 GMT -8
Funny thing - they NEVER did a thing to stop people from leaving their money and property to their children. Not one law was voted on to do that. So all this talk about them being against people inheriting their parents' money and property is just a bunch of hot air. The founding fathers obviously didn't mean what you think they meant otherwise they would have taken action on it. Judge their actions. They did nothing to curtail inheritence. Not a single thing - and never brought it to either house of congress to be debated. Yes, they did. If you want to wallow in ignorance that is up to you. Really? What law was that? When did the founding fathers actually debate a law in congress that would have called for confiscating property and money rather than let it be inherited by the children?? I'll tell you what. Since you obviously have an issue with wealth just give me your money and property and I'll put it to good use. I can use that to finance my daughter's college education in 8 years... |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 27, 2010 14:02:37 GMT -8
Yes, they did. If you want to wallow in ignorance that is up to you. Really? What law was that? When did the founding fathers actually debate a law in congress that would have called for confiscating property and money rather than let it be inherited by the children?? I'll tell you what. Since you obviously have an issue with wealth just give me your money and property and I'll put it to good use. I can use that to finance my daughter's college education in 8 years... Please read the first sentence in the second paragraph of the article I posted. I have no problem with wealth. Of course, being a millionare is not what it used to be. |
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Post by davdesid on Nov 27, 2010 14:33:54 GMT -8
Yes, they did. If you want to wallow in ignorance that is up to you. Really? What law was that? When did the founding fathers actually debate a law in congress that would have called for confiscating property and money rather than let it be inherited by the children?? I'll tell you what. Since you obviously have an issue with wealth just give me your money and property and I'll put it to good use. I can use that to finance my daughter's college education in 8 years... They did pass an estate tax in the 1790s to help fund a navy. That said, cherry-picking Jefferson and others to try to show that they did not think property ought to be inherited is less than honest. They did oppose the idea of property devolving upon the first born son to the exclusion of any other children. Anyhow here are a number of Jefferson quotes. You decide where he stood on the issue. etext.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations/jeff1550.htm |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 27, 2010 21:34:48 GMT -8
Really? What law was that? When did the founding fathers actually debate a law in congress that would have called for confiscating property and money rather than let it be inherited by the children?? I'll tell you what. Since you obviously have an issue with wealth just give me your money and property and I'll put it to good use. I can use that to finance my daughter's college education in 8 years... They did pass an estate tax in the 1790s to help fund a navy. That said, cherry-picking Jefferson and others to try to show that they did not think property ought to be inherited is less than honest. They did oppose the idea of property devolving upon the first born son to the exclusion of any other children. Anyhow here are a number of Jefferson quotes. You decide where he stood on the issue. etext.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations/jeff1550.htmThank you for pointing out that they did pass an estate tax. To say that I said that they did not want property to be inherited is quite less than honest. I never said that. I said the Founding Fathers were against inherited wealth and power. Please show me that they were not. Your link, while good information, is not germane to my comments. |
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Post by aztecwin on Nov 28, 2010 7:51:57 GMT -8
They did pass an estate tax in the 1790s to help fund a navy. That said, cherry-picking Jefferson and others to try to show that they did not think property ought to be inherited is less than honest. They did oppose the idea of property devolving upon the first born son to the exclusion of any other children. Anyhow here are a number of Jefferson quotes. You decide where he stood on the issue. etext.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations/jeff1550.htmThank you for pointing out that they did pass an estate tax. To say that I said that they did not want property to be inherited is quite less than honest. I never said that. I said the Founding Fathers were against inherited wealth and power. Please show me that they were not. Your link, while good information, is not germane to my comments. I would differ. I think that those quotes at different times to different people shows that Jefferson could look at and argue issues from many different angles. It is germane in the sense that you can not really tell what position Jefferson held just as you can not tell much about modern day politicians by what they say. Most are scripted to align with their party or even on occasion, their constituents. |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 28, 2010 11:42:46 GMT -8
Thank you for pointing out that they did pass an estate tax. To say that I said that they did not want property to be inherited is quite less than honest. I never said that. I said the Founding Fathers were against inherited wealth and power. Please show me that they were not. Your link, while good information, is not germane to my comments. I would differ. I think that those quotes at different times to different people shows that Jefferson could look at and argue issues from many different angles. It is germane in the sense that you can not really tell what position Jefferson held just as you can not tell much about modern day politicians by what they say. Most are scripted to align with their party or even on occasion, their constituents. Which of those qoutes in the mentioned link says that Jefferson was ever in favor of inherited wealth and power? Perhaps I missed it. |
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Post by aztecwin on Nov 28, 2010 12:35:35 GMT -8
I would differ. I think that those quotes at different times to different people shows that Jefferson could look at and argue issues from many different angles. It is germane in the sense that you can not really tell what position Jefferson held just as you can not tell much about modern day politicians by what they say. Most are scripted to align with their party or even on occasion, their constituents. Which of those qoutes in the mentioned link says that Jefferson was ever in favor of inherited wealth and power? Perhaps I missed it. "The laws of civil society, indeed, for the encouragement of industry, give the property of the parent to his family on his death, and in most civilized countries permit him even to give it, by testament, to whom he pleases." --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Earle, 1823. ME 15:470 When you read carefully, you should conclude that what is attributed to Jefferson is most likely in answer to some inquiry. You would need to know what was in the question to clearly understand the quote. I had to guess what a "qoute" was, but answered anyway. |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 28, 2010 13:16:26 GMT -8
Which of those qoutes in the mentioned link says that Jefferson was ever in favor of inherited wealth and power? Perhaps I missed it. "The laws of civil society, indeed, for the encouragement of industry, give the property of the parent to his family on his death, and in most civilized countries permit him even to give it, by testament, to whom he pleases." --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Earle, 1823. ME 15:470 When you read carefully, you should conclude that what is attributed to Jefferson is most likely in answer to some inquiry. You would need to know what was in the question to clearly understand the quote. I had to guess what a "qoute" was, but answered anyway. Right. Please remember I am talking about inherited wealth and power. A tradesman's tools, household furniture, a farmers plow, harness, and horse is what I suspect Jefferson was talking about. Conservatives seem to be pretending that estate taxes take everything and leave the heirs on the curb begging for alms. We all actually know that is not the case. |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Nov 28, 2010 13:21:15 GMT -8
"The laws of civil society, indeed, for the encouragement of industry, give the property of the parent to his family on his death, and in most civilized countries permit him even to give it, by testament, to whom he pleases." --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Earle, 1823. ME 15:470 When you read carefully, you should conclude that what is attributed to Jefferson is most likely in answer to some inquiry. You would need to know what was in the question to clearly understand the quote. I had to guess what a "qoute" was, but answered anyway. Right. Please remember I am talking about inherited wealth and power. A tradesman's tools, household furniture, a farmers plow, harness, and horse is what I suspect Jefferson was talking about. Conservatives seem to be pretending that estate taxes take everything and leave the heirs on the curb begging for alms. We all actually know that is not the case. But when the money in an estate has already been taxed multiple times (federal, state, local, etc), why should it be taxed again?? When is enough enough? There is so much waste at all levels of government all more taxes do is to fund more waste. When the government really cleans house and streamlines their operations then they can say that they legitimately need more money, and at that point it will all be about the worthiness of the projects/departments asking for more funding. |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 28, 2010 15:38:50 GMT -8
Right. Please remember I am talking about inherited wealth and power. A tradesman's tools, household furniture, a farmers plow, harness, and horse is what I suspect Jefferson was talking about. Conservatives seem to be pretending that estate taxes take everything and leave the heirs on the curb begging for alms. We all actually know that is not the case. But when the money in an estate has already been taxed multiple times (federal, state, local, etc), why should it be taxed again?? When is enough enough? There is so much waste at all levels of government all more taxes do is to fund more waste. When the government really cleans house and streamlines their operations then they can say that they legitimately need more money, and at that point it will all be about the worthiness of the projects/departments asking for more funding. I have already responded to that question. Plowed ground, Eric. However, the value of an estate has not been taxed multiple time. Frequently large parts of have not been taxed at all. |
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Post by aztecwin on Nov 28, 2010 15:59:40 GMT -8
"The laws of civil society, indeed, for the encouragement of industry, give the property of the parent to his family on his death, and in most civilized countries permit him even to give it, by testament, to whom he pleases." --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Earle, 1823. ME 15:470 When you read carefully, you should conclude that what is attributed to Jefferson is most likely in answer to some inquiry. You would need to know what was in the question to clearly understand the quote. I had to guess what a "qoute" was, but answered anyway. Right. Please remember I am talking about inherited wealth and power. A tradesman's tools, household furniture, a farmers plow, harness, and horse is what I suspect Jefferson was talking about. Conservatives seem to be pretending that estate taxes take everything and leave the heirs on the curb begging for alms. We all actually know that is not the case. Suspect all you want to, but the actual question to which he was replying is not shown. We have covered this before. You can take the time and effort to arrange your affairs so that your passing and even the passing of your spouse does not become a taxable event. I suspect that very few people of considerable wealth do just that. Look what Warren Buffett has done. He knows his wealth will be used as he wants through the Gates Foundation and not frittered away by the inefficient government. |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 28, 2010 16:04:35 GMT -8
Right. Please remember I am talking about inherited wealth and power. A tradesman's tools, household furniture, a farmers plow, harness, and horse is what I suspect Jefferson was talking about. Conservatives seem to be pretending that estate taxes take everything and leave the heirs on the curb begging for alms. We all actually know that is not the case. Suspect all you want to, but the actual question to which he was replying is not shown. We have covered this before. You can take the time and effort to arrange your affairs so that your passing and even the passing of your spouse does not become a taxable event. I suspect that very few people of considerable wealth do just that. Look what Warren Buffett has done. He knows his wealth will be used as he wants through the Gates Foundation and not frittered away by the inefficient government. Buffet is leaving his wealth to charity. Very little goes to his children. Anyone can leave their estate to their favorite charity and pay no tax. I thought you and Eric were all worked up about parents not being able to pass their vast fortunes to their children without estate tax? |
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Post by aztecwin on Nov 28, 2010 16:54:43 GMT -8
Suspect all you want to, but the actual question to which he was replying is not shown. We have covered this before. You can take the time and effort to arrange your affairs so that your passing and even the passing of your spouse does not become a taxable event. I suspect that very few people of considerable wealth do just that. Look what Warren Buffett has done. He knows his wealth will be used as he wants through the Gates Foundation and not frittered away by the inefficient government. Buffet is leaving his wealth to charity. Very little goes to his children. Anyone can leave their estate to their favorite charity and pay no tax. I thought you and Eric were all worked up about parents not being able to pass their vast fortunes to their children without estate tax? I am not sure about Eric, but I can do whatever I want with my Estate by a little planning. I just don't think you should have to do that. |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 28, 2010 18:18:08 GMT -8
Buffet is leaving his wealth to charity. Very little goes to his children. Anyone can leave their estate to their favorite charity and pay no tax. I thought you and Eric were all worked up about parents not being able to pass their vast fortunes to their children without estate tax? I am not sure about Eric, but I can do whatever I want with my Estate by a little planning. I just don't think you should have to do that. A little planning is too much work? Gad, you give government service a bad name. |
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