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Post by aztec70 on Nov 15, 2010 11:06:35 GMT -8
www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/10esesttaxsnap.pdfThis should give some background on number of estates filing tax returns and how many actually paid tax. Also gives data on the assets classes in the estates. Notice how few people are affected by this tax. The conservative mantra is that this is a devastating tax on us. So untrue. The vast majority of the decedents pass everything on to their heirs free of estate tax. With the rules in effect in 2009 an estate of 10 million dollars would see the children getting about 7 million dollars. They also get a stepped basis to fair market value on what they receive from their parent's. The step-up in tax basis is really important to those that inherit estates free from estate tax (the vast majority). All of the unrealized gain that the parents had been sitting on comes to the children with no hanging capital gains taxes. The children can sell and pay little, or no, income taxes on the property they get. No estate tax and no income tax. Let me repeat that. Most heirs receive property free of estate tax, and if they sell the property soon, due to the step-up to FMV, little, or no income tax when they sell. If you want to know more you can PM me and I will set up an appointment. My tax consultation hourly fee is $175.00.
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Post by waztec on Nov 25, 2010 9:02:30 GMT -8
www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/10esesttaxsnap.pdfThis should give some background on number of estates filing tax returns and how many actually paid tax. Also gives data on the assets classes in the estates. Notice how few people are affected by this tax. The conservative mantra is that this is a devastating tax on us. So untrue. The vast majority of the decedents pass everything on to their heirs free of estate tax. With the rules in effect in 2009 an estate of 10 million dollars would see the children getting about 7 million dollars. They also get a stepped basis to fair market value on what they receive from their parent's. The step-up in tax basis is really important to those that inherit estates free from estate tax (the vast majority). All of the unrealized gain that the parents had been sitting on comes to the children with no hanging capital gains taxes. The children can sell and pay little, or no, income taxes on the property they get. No estate tax and no income tax. Let me repeat that. Most heirs receive property free of estate tax, and if they sell the property soon, due to the step-up to FMV, little, or no income tax when they sell. If you want to know more you can PM me and I will set up an appointment. My tax consultation hourly fee is $175.00. '70, It is the principle of the thing that drives conservatives absolutely nuts. And that is why we should keep and increase the Estate Tax, it drives conservatives nuts. ;D It is not that the overwhelming majority of conservatives will ever have to face the horror of the Estate tax, though. But, Horatio Alger exists in Conservatopia and no matter how improbable their entrance into the realm of riches may be, they will continue to worship the concept. That most really rich families can afford to hire people to help them avoid the tax already is irrelevant to them. |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Nov 25, 2010 10:16:19 GMT -8
That most really rich families can afford to hire people to help them avoid the tax already is irrelevant to them. Then why have the tax at all? For most conservatives it IS the principal of the thing - stealing money from people when they're dead is just not cool. When people WANT their money to go to their kids the money should go to their kids. It's an issue of economic freedom and individual rights. People on the left do believe in individual freedoms and rights, don't they? |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 25, 2010 11:01:29 GMT -8
That most really rich families can afford to hire people to help them avoid the tax already is irrelevant to them. Then why have the tax at all? For most conservatives it IS the principal of the thing - stealing money from people when they're dead is just not cool. When people WANT their money to go to their kids the money should go to their kids. It's an issue of economic freedom and individual rights. People on the left do believe in individual freedoms and rights, don't they? This may have escaped your attention, but we as a nation and society do not like inherited wealth or power. As a democracy we are against a class structure that insures that a family or group has priviledge over others because of who their parents are. As a conservative you may like inherited rank and priviledge. That has been the hallmark of conservatives. Having great power and wealth is passed on to those that have not earned it is in opposition to individual freedom and rights. So, yes, those of us on the left believe in individual rights and freedoms. We sometimes wonder about those on the right. Do they? Yes, we see them mouth the phrases, but their policys seem to be the opposite. |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 25, 2010 11:03:12 GMT -8
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Nov 25, 2010 11:09:27 GMT -8
Then why have the tax at all? For most conservatives it IS the principal of the thing - stealing money from people when they're dead is just not cool. When people WANT their money to go to their kids the money should go to their kids. It's an issue of economic freedom and individual rights. People on the left do believe in individual freedoms and rights, don't they? This may have escaped your attention, but we as a nation and society do not like inherited wealth or power. As a democracy we are against a class structure that insures that a family or group has priviledge over others because of who their parents are. As a conservative you may like inherited rank and priviledge. That has been the hallmark of conservatives. Having great power and wealth is passed on to those that have not earned it is in opposition to individual freedom and rights. So, yes, those of us on the left believe in individual rights and freedoms. We sometimes wonder about those on the right. Do they? Yes, we see them mouth the phrases, but their policys seem to be the opposite. So if you believe in individual rights and freedoms then you should believe in the rights and freedoms of parents to leave their money and property to their children. |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 25, 2010 11:12:39 GMT -8
This may have escaped your attention, but we as a nation and society do not like inherited wealth or power. As a democracy we are against a class structure that insures that a family or group has priviledge over others because of who their parents are. As a conservative you may like inherited rank and priviledge. That has been the hallmark of conservatives. Having great power and wealth is passed on to those that have not earned it is in opposition to individual freedom and rights. So, yes, those of us on the left believe in individual rights and freedoms. We sometimes wonder about those on the right. Do they? Yes, we see them mouth the phrases, but their policys seem to be the opposite. So if you believe in individual rights and freedoms then you should believe in the rights and freedoms of parents to leave their money and property to their children. They do. Very few estates pay tax. Even when they do the majority of the estate passes to the heirs. Do facts confuse you? |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 25, 2010 11:28:53 GMT -8
This may have escaped your attention, but we as a nation and society do not like inherited wealth or power. As a democracy we are against a class structure that insures that a family or group has priviledge over others because of who their parents are. As a conservative you may like inherited rank and priviledge. That has been the hallmark of conservatives. Having great power and wealth is passed on to those that have not earned it is in opposition to individual freedom and rights. So, yes, those of us on the left believe in individual rights and freedoms. We sometimes wonder about those on the right. Do they? Yes, we see them mouth the phrases, but their policys seem to be the opposite. So if you believe in individual rights and freedoms then you should believe in the rights and freedoms of parents to leave their money and property to their children. So it has escaped you that democracys do not like inherited wealth and power. |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Nov 25, 2010 17:20:06 GMT -8
So if you believe in individual rights and freedoms then you should believe in the rights and freedoms of parents to leave their money and property to their children. So it has escaped you that democracys do not like inherited wealth and power. No, I just don't buy that. In general, people who prefer democracy do not like MONARCHIES. We don't have a monarchy, so that's a moot point. I think just about everyone would want to inherit their parents money and property rather than have it wasted in the middle managment bureaucracy of government (where most of it would be spent if it were stolen/confiscated in taxes). This isn't a communist state. People who prefer COMMUNISM would agree with your sentiments, but not those who support a free market, capitalist democracy. Capitalism is good. It rewards those who work hard and rewards innovation, invention, and creativity. Part of a free market, capitalist society is the fact that what is yours is yours, and not the state's. And if you want your stuff/money to go to your kids after you're gone then it should go to your kids. Now if you want to talk about inherited wealth and power then you should be aware that most of the richest people in America are Democrats. The richest people in the U.S. Senate, for example are Democrats. And most of them inherited their wealth. Let's not forget about Joe Kennedy, either. The man who illegally made a fortune in alcohol. The man who bought the White House for his son. The abuses of wealth are more on the left than on the right. Just ask anyone on George Soros's hit parade... |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 25, 2010 21:30:10 GMT -8
So it has escaped you that democracys do not like inherited wealth and power. No, I just don't buy that. In general, people who prefer democracy do not like MONARCHIES. We don't have a monarchy, so that's a moot point. I think just about everyone would want to inherit their parents money and property rather than have it wasted in the middle managment bureaucracy of government (where most of it would be spent if it were stolen/confiscated in taxes). This isn't a communist state. People who prefer COMMUNISM would agree with your sentiments, but not those who support a free market, capitalist democracy. Capitalism is good. It rewards those who work hard and rewards innovation, invention, and creativity. Part of a free market, capitalist society is the fact that what is yours is yours, and not the state's. And if you want your stuff/money to go to your kids after your'e gone then it should go to your kids. Now if you want to talk about inherited wealth and power then you should be aware that most of the richest people in America are Democrats. The richest people in the U.S. Senate, for example are Democrats. And most of them inherited their wealth. Let's not forget about Joe Kennedy, either. The man who illegally made a fortune in alcohol. The man who bought the White House for his son. The abuses of wealth are more on the left than on the right. Just ask anyone on George Soros's hit parade... Put "Founding Fathers and inherited wealth and power" into your search engine and see what you learn. |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Nov 25, 2010 23:37:15 GMT -8
No, I just don't buy that. In general, people who prefer democracy do not like MONARCHIES. We don't have a monarchy, so that's a moot point. I think just about everyone would want to inherit their parents money and property rather than have it wasted in the middle managment bureaucracy of government (where most of it would be spent if it were stolen/confiscated in taxes). This isn't a communist state. People who prefer COMMUNISM would agree with your sentiments, but not those who support a free market, capitalist democracy. Capitalism is good. It rewards those who work hard and rewards innovation, invention, and creativity. Part of a free market, capitalist society is the fact that what is yours is yours, and not the state's. And if you want your stuff/money to go to your kids after your'e gone then it should go to your kids. Now if you want to talk about inherited wealth and power then you should be aware that most of the richest people in America are Democrats. The richest people in the U.S. Senate, for example are Democrats. And most of them inherited their wealth. Let's not forget about Joe Kennedy, either. The man who illegally made a fortune in alcohol. The man who bought the White House for his son. The abuses of wealth are more on the left than on the right. Just ask anyone on George Soros's hit parade... Put "Founding Fathers and inherited wealth and power" into your search engine and see what you learn. They were talking about Monarchies. Like the one they were attempting to (and succeeding in) breaking away from. Europe was loaded with them at the time. That's what they didn't like. And I love how you ignored the rest of my points... |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 25, 2010 23:52:07 GMT -8
Put "Founding Fathers and inherited wealth and power" into your search engine and see what you learn. They were talking about Monarchies. Like the one they were attempting to (and succeeding in) breaking away from. Europe was loaded with them at the time. That's what they didn't like. And I love how you ignored the rest of my points... Did you do the search? |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Nov 26, 2010 1:05:54 GMT -8
They were talking about Monarchies. Like the one they were attempting to (and succeeding in) breaking away from. Europe was loaded with them at the time. That's what they didn't like. And I love how you ignored the rest of my points... Did you do the search? Did you address my points? |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 26, 2010 10:41:46 GMT -8
Did you address my points? Your points would be addressed if you took the time to learn. |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 26, 2010 10:44:49 GMT -8
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Nov 27, 2010 7:06:05 GMT -8
If you look at the time that I posted that comment you'd notice that it was awfully late and I didn't have time to do more than cursory research - not enough time to get into detail with it.
I did look it up briefly and found a bunch of commentary and interpretation, but damned few actual written passages from the founding fathers.
And I still maintain that their main gripe was against the Monarchies and Aristocracy which they were breaking away from. That was the world they knew, not this one.
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Post by aztecwin on Nov 27, 2010 8:28:53 GMT -8
So if you believe in individual rights and freedoms then you should believe in the rights and freedoms of parents to leave their money and property to their children. They do. Very few estates pay tax. Even when they do the majority of the estate passes to the heirs. Do facts confuse you? You should not have to do intricate tax planning to have high confidence in your money being handled as you wish. Do away with this form of tax completely and you would not have to hire a bunch of scum bag lawyers and tax "professionals" to do for a huge fee what should not even be an issue. Not just on Estate Tax issues, but on all forms of taxes, we could make just about everything taxed at point of sale and do away with most of he IRS and all of these slight of hand tax leaches who make a living on a un-necessarily complicated tax code. |
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Post by aztecwin on Nov 27, 2010 8:37:15 GMT -8
That is one point of view, but I disagree for the most part. I think that this writer may have overstated the idea. Even in those days property was held in many different ways. Trusts and similar methods of ownership were in use. It is similar to the current idea that Warren Buffet says he wants higher tax rates on himself while employing many lawyers and accountants to make sure he is taxed as little as possible. He has given the bulk of his estate to The Gates Foundation. He knows, as should we all, that money is much more efficient in private hands than in the hands of government. |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 27, 2010 11:39:40 GMT -8
They do. Very few estates pay tax. Even when they do the majority of the estate passes to the heirs. Do facts confuse you? You should not have to do intricate tax planning to have high confidence in your money being handled as you wish. Do away with this form of tax completely and you would not have to hire a bunch of scum bag lawyers and tax "professionals" to do for a huge fee what should not even be an issue. Not just on Estate Tax issues, but on all forms of taxes, we could make just about everything taxed at point of sale and do away with most of he IRS and all of these slight of hand tax leaches who make a living on a un-necessarily complicated tax code. Ah, this brings a smile to my face. ;D |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 27, 2010 11:42:49 GMT -8
If you look at the time that I posted that comment you'd notice that it was awfully late and I didn't have time to do more than cursory research - not enough time to get into detail with it. I did look it up briefly and found a bunch of commentary and interpretation, but damned few actual written passages from the founding fathers. And I still maintain that their main gripe was against the Monarchies and Aristocracy which they were breaking away from. That was the world they knew, not this one. I can accept that you were tired and did not want to take the effort. Fine. My point is that monarchys and aristocracys are built on inherited wealth and power. The Founding Fathers were dead set against that. That is one of the foundations of our country. |
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