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Post by ptsdthor on Aug 4, 2010 8:47:05 GMT -8
Perhaps this was discussed before, but what is your take on the planned huge Mosque to go into a location very near Ground Zero? Do you think it is a Saudi funded, in-your-face statement to American Muslims (and all Muslims for that matter) on the determination and inevitability of their religion or is it a shining example of American tolerance that will somehow encourage Muslim moderates to the fore? In that the Imam in charge of the planned Mosque is a proponent of an Americanized Sharia Law ( www.huffingtonpost.com/imam-feisal-abdul-rauf/what-shariah-law-is-all-a_b_190825.html) and will not condemn the terrorist organization of Hamas ( www.wnd.com/?pageId=168797) and really has not divulged the funding sources of the effort ( www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-us-ground-zero-mosque-adl,0,4035005.story), I would think it is much more the former and clueless Americans are hoping against hope thinking if you sing "Kum-bay-ya" enough with Islamists, their hearts will melt. I think Islam needs a Reformation and going along to get along with any sizable Muslim organization that has not rejected the philosophies of Hamas, for example, should be resisted and so stated for effect. The Protestants and like minded Catholics didn't get the Reformation out of the Catholic Church by lying down for them. It involved both active and passive resistance. Your take? |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Aug 4, 2010 10:32:34 GMT -8
As I have said since I was 23, the only good Radical Islamic is a dead one.
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Post by aztecwin on Aug 4, 2010 11:52:36 GMT -8
If this Mosque is in fact built, how long before a series of fruitcakes start blowing it up? If you are a little out of plumb, so to speak, what will it take to set you off and get you to blow the Mosque up? I think that this is a bad idea even from the point of view of Muslims if they are sincere about their motives.
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Aug 5, 2010 18:24:14 GMT -8
We surrendered to these guys a long time ago. What the hell. They won anyway, so give them their mosque. Why continue the pretense that they're our enemies? Ah but John, your enemy is your enemy as long as HE believes that he is your enemy. As long as they fly airplanes into buildings and as long as they cut the heads off of living human beings and up those heads on the butts of the men they have just killed, Radical Islam will continue to be our enemy. The only solution to that is to let them kill a few thousand more and a few thousand after that and a few thousand later. Compared to 310,000,000, that is a pittance. Eventually they will grow tired of all of the killing and things will slow down. Then we can talk peace. We may have to betray the Jews to get peace, but what is a few million Jews after all of the killing they have seen. They are used to it, so lets betray them. Right? |
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Post by monty on Aug 5, 2010 22:35:27 GMT -8
Is it against zoning rules, are they going to follow building codes? What exactly is the issue here? Symbolic? At what distance from that area should we allow a mosque? Aren't we the people that are throwing up another huge office building on a mass grave? Is the price of land on the Island and the need to perpetuate commerce that high and the first amendment that suspendable? no law establishing religion, or prohibiting the free exercise there-of, freedom of speech, right to peacefully assemble - seems the building of the mosque is protected, there is no good taste clause.
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Post by ptsdthor on Aug 6, 2010 7:37:34 GMT -8
Is it against zoning rules, are they going to follow building codes? What exactly is the issue here? Symbolic? At what distance from that area should we allow a mosque? Aren't we the people that are throwing up another huge office building on a mass grave? Is the price of land on the Island and the need to perpetuate commerce that high and the first amendment that suspendable? no law establishing religion, or prohibiting the free exercise there-of, freedom of speech, right to peacefully assemble - seems the building of the mosque is protected, there is no good taste clause. I don't deny that the group has the legal right to try and build it and they may actually do it, but political realities are unavoidable. Does anyone think that the ACLU, ADL, etc., couldn't or wouldn't use what ever power they had to stop some Neo-NAZI Foundation or a HQ for some KKK offshoot, for example, from moving in near to the National Holocaust Museum? All I'm saying is, if the political will is there to stop it, there is always an equally legal way to thwart the building from going forward. And if it stopped, then that will send two primary messages. The progressives fear that it will re-enforce the Islamists fear and loathing of American culture and the conservatives believe that it will tell the Islamists that we have had quite enough of their particular brand of hatred. Both sides want to stop the hatred, but how is the question? - by extending a fig leaf or calling a spade a spade? |
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Post by monty on Aug 6, 2010 10:35:50 GMT -8
Is it against zoning rules, are they going to follow building codes? What exactly is the issue here? Symbolic? At what distance from that area should we allow a mosque? Aren't we the people that are throwing up another huge office building on a mass grave? Is the price of land on the Island and the need to perpetuate commerce that high and the first amendment that suspendable? no law establishing religion, or prohibiting the free exercise there-of, freedom of speech, right to peacefully assemble - seems the building of the mosque is protected, there is no good taste clause. I don't deny that the group has the legal right to try and build it and they may actually do it, but political realities are unavoidable. Does anyone think that the ACLU, ADL, etc., couldn't or wouldn't use what ever power they had to stop some Neo-NAZI Foundation or a HQ for some KKK offshoot, for example, from moving in near to the National Holocaust Museum? All I'm saying is, if the political will is there to stop it, there is always an equally legal way to thwart the building from going forward. And if it stopped, then that will send two primary messages. The progressives fear that it will re-enforce the Islamists fear and loathing of American culture and the conservatives believe that it will tell the Islamists that we have had quite enough of their particular brand of hatred. Both sides want to stop the hatred, but how is the question? - by extending a fig leaf or calling a spade a spade? Is a Mosque akin to neo-nazis? I think it would be a better example that if some radicals blew up an abortion clinic could a church go in across the street even if that pastor or priest or whatever denomination leader didn't wholeheartedly and categorical refute that type of act and people that possibly do support that type of act contribute to it? I also fail to see how we can treat that land as sacred space and erect a tower for commerce unless we are stating that is what we find sacred, and if two blocks away is too close, would 4 blocks be, or is the whole Island off limits? I personally find it in bad taste to put it there, and I am also no ardent supporter of tolerance if it becomes repressive tollerance; but this just seems like xenophobia and fear of another religion and group of people. |
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Post by ptsdthor on Aug 9, 2010 14:55:38 GMT -8
I don't deny that the group has the legal right to try and build it and they may actually do it, but political realities are unavoidable. Does anyone think that the ACLU, ADL, etc., couldn't or wouldn't use what ever power they had to stop some Neo-NAZI Foundation or a HQ for some KKK offshoot, for example, from moving in near to the National Holocaust Museum? All I'm saying is, if the political will is there to stop it, there is always an equally legal way to thwart the building from going forward. And if it stopped, then that will send two primary messages. The progressives fear that it will re-enforce the Islamists fear and loathing of American culture and the conservatives believe that it will tell the Islamists that we have had quite enough of their particular brand of hatred. Both sides want to stop the hatred, but how is the question? - by extending a fig leaf or calling a spade a spade? Is a Mosque akin to neo-nazis? I think it would be a better example that if some radicals blew up an abortion clinic could a church go in across the street even if that pastor or priest or whatever denomination leader didn't wholeheartedly and categorical refute that type of act and people that possibly do support that type of act contribute to it? I also fail to see how we can treat that land as sacred space and erect a tower for commerce unless we are stating that is what we find sacred, and if two blocks away is too close, would 4 blocks be, or is the whole Island off limits? I personally find it in bad taste to put it there, and I am also no ardent supporter of tolerance if it becomes repressive tollerance; but this just seems like xenophobia and fear of another religion and group of people. Are they Neo-Nazi's? Well - it seems some Muslims are close enough to Neo-Nazis to cause Comedy Central to pee their pants. www.mediaite.com/online/south-parks-mohammed-episode-censored-by-comedy-central/Death threats from anonymous Muslims caused the irreverent Comedy Central to somehow find religion. I can't tell you how often South Park or comics on Comedy Central lampoon Jesus. It is because Christianity is actually a religion of peace and Comedy Central are complete Chicken $hits. But the reality is, I don't blame them for being cowards. There is likely a real seriousness to death threats from anonymous Muslims. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Trade_Center_bombingen.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacksen.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombingswww.msnbc.msn.com/id/33678801/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/denmark/6924522/Somali-axeman-who-tried-to-murder-Danish-cartoonist-linked-to-al-Qaeda.htmlen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid_(shoe_bomber)blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2009/12/crotch-bomber_f.phpwww.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/10/AR2006081000152.htmlen.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombingswww.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1190351/Soldier-killed-Muslim-convert-opens-U-S-army-recruiting-centre.htmlmichellemalkin.com/2006/05/25/the-jihadi-snipers-revisited/www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,81898,00.html The fact that we don't get a condemnation of Hamas from the NY Imam, that he wants some sort of Americanized Sharia Law (probably an oxymoron) and we don't know where the 100 Million is coming from (likely from some repressive Islamic faithful in the ME) is close enough to him being a terrorist sympathizer and/or it being a political statement that that he/it should be resisted for good measure. It isn't the location necessarily. It is because it is a high profile case. So, if the main stream media and fellow travelers are too cowardly to speak up about the hatred in the religion of Islam, perhaps the general opposition to it can cause somebody to grow a pair, stop the Mosque and have the next conversion - why it was opposed. The go-along to get along crowd says "xenophobia and fear of another religion". Tell that to the 9/11 families and the host of others killed/maimed in the name of the "Religion of Peace". |
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Post by davdesid on Aug 9, 2010 15:15:45 GMT -8
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Post by aztecwin on Aug 9, 2010 16:00:06 GMT -8
Watch from start to finish! |
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Post by davdesid on Aug 9, 2010 16:26:00 GMT -8
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Post by monty on Aug 9, 2010 20:55:18 GMT -8
Is a Mosque akin to neo-nazis? I think it would be a better example that if some radicals blew up an abortion clinic could a church go in across the street even if that pastor or priest or whatever denomination leader didn't wholeheartedly and categorical refute that type of act and people that possibly do support that type of act contribute to it? I also fail to see how we can treat that land as sacred space and erect a tower for commerce unless we are stating that is what we find sacred, and if two blocks away is too close, would 4 blocks be, or is the whole Island off limits? I personally find it in bad taste to put it there, and I am also no ardent supporter of tolerance if it becomes repressive tollerance; but this just seems like xenophobia and fear of another religion and group of people. Are they Neo-Nazi's? Well - it seems some Muslims are close enough to Neo-Nazis to cause Comedy Central to pee their pants. www.mediaite.com/online/south-parks-mohammed-episode-censored-by-comedy-central/Death threats from anonymous Muslims caused the irreverent Comedy Central to somehow find religion. I can't tell you how often South Park or comics on Comedy Central lampoon Jesus. It is because Christianity is actually a religion of peace and Comedy Central are complete Chicken $hits. But the reality is, I don't blame them for being cowards. There is likely a real seriousness to death threats from anonymous Muslims. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_World_Trade_Center_bombingen.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacksen.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombingswww.msnbc.msn.com/id/33678801/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/denmark/6924522/Somali-axeman-who-tried-to-murder-Danish-cartoonist-linked-to-al-Qaeda.htmlen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid_(shoe_bomber)blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2009/12/crotch-bomber_f.phpwww.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/10/AR2006081000152.htmlen.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombingswww.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1190351/Soldier-killed-Muslim-convert-opens-U-S-army-recruiting-centre.htmlmichellemalkin.com/2006/05/25/the-jihadi-snipers-revisited/www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,81898,00.html The fact that we don't get a condemnation of Hamas from the NY Imam, that he wants some sort of Americanized Sharia Law (probably an oxymoron) and we don't know where the 100 Million is coming from (likely from some repressive Islamic faithful in the ME) is close enough to him being a terrorist sympathizer and/or it being a political statement that that he/it should be resisted for good measure. It isn't the location necessarily. It is because it is a high profile case. So, if the main stream media and fellow travelers are too cowardly to speak up about the hatred in the religion of Islam, perhaps the general opposition to it can cause somebody to grow a pair, stop the Mosque and have the next conversion - why it was opposed. The go-along to get along crowd says "xenophobia and fear of another religion". Tell that to the 9/11 families and the host of others killed/maimed in the name of the "Religion of Peace". I think part of the problem is the equivocation of using Nazi and neo-nazi as any boogie man. Are there absurd and outlandish factions of Isalmicists, no doubt, and they mean business. But, that a section of a large group is bat $#!+ crazy does not mean the entire group is. And this is a red herring, there is no constitutional objection to putting a mosque there, furthermore I raised concerns in how we can claim that area as sacred and place a tower of business on a burial ground, and you are attempting to use the specific to prove the general and notably to prove that this mosque is going to be some trojan horse. Building a mosque there is not going to bring about the end of the world or the us or new york anymore than abortion-doctor-bombing sympathizers have. When those people perpetuate wrong or the iman incites violence it will be an issue, until then, it does, in fact, reek of the brown skinned dude with the different Yahweah god-head being scary |
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Post by ptsdthor on Aug 10, 2010 7:47:26 GMT -8
I think part of the problem is the equivocation of using Nazi and neo-nazi as any boogie man. Are there absurd and outlandish factions of Isalmicists, no doubt, and they mean business. But, that a section of a large group is bat $#!+ crazy does not mean the entire group is. And this is a red herring, there is no constitutional objection to putting a mosque there, furthermore I raised concerns in how we can claim that area as sacred and place a tower of business on a burial ground, and you are attempting to use the specific to prove the general and notably to prove that this mosque is going to be some trojan horse. Building a mosque there is not going to bring about the end of the world or the us or new york anymore than abortion-doctor-bombing sympathizers have. When those people perpetuate wrong or the iman incites violence it will be an issue, until then, it does, in fact, reek of the brown skinned dude with the different Yahweah god-head being scary No red herring, just a good analogy. Neo-Nazis are a hate group. Sure, I’m sure some Neo-Nazis could pass themselves off as law abiding citizens, but should everyone lay down for them because the majority of their members are not currently violating the law? If there was any secular group with a core code that strove to treat women as second class citizens and was sympathetic to mass murderers, what should we say? Different strokes? Come move in next to me! In fact, more efforts have been made by liberals against the Boy Scouts because of their innocuous freedom of association than efforts made by them to make Muslims come to terms with the violence and misogyny inherent in their religion. It is not about Ground Zero, its about the discussion not being had. Islam rejects the separation of their religion from the political. Given that context, how can anyone assume that the Mosque is simply a religious freedom issue and not deserving the scrutiny that would come to a secular organization with a hate filled agenda? Its so typical that a leftist columnist like Richard Cohen, for example, who can connect the invisible dots and make Gingrich, Lazio, and others all out to be bigots for their opposition to the Mosque but just can’t for the life of them seem to see the real implications of “Americanized” Sharia Law on women or the real implications of one's implicit support of Hamas on innocent Israelis. If fact, I think that Liberals, like Cohen, hate conservatives more than that they do terrorist sympathizers. After all, the later can only help others kill them, their children or some other hapless innocents but the former can wrest away beloved and treasured political power at peaceful elections (Oh the horror!). |
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Post by Yoda on Aug 12, 2010 10:24:58 GMT -8
Help! Help!! The paranoids are chasing me.
The location of the mosque has nothing to do with who the Imam is that is in charge of it. There are thousands of mosques in this country and to the extent to which Muslim extremist Imam's run them, they should be very carefully watched. But non-extremist mosques have every bit as much right to be there as do any other church or whatever. And since nobody has any idea about who the Imam will be, this is nothing more than a little paranoia at play.
Incidentally, there is already a mosque four blocks from ground zero. It's been there for 40 years -- it predates the World Trade Center construction. Run for your lives, paranoid ones...
Bye the way... I hear that there are some Catholic churches that are run by priests who are Irish. We should probably shut them all down as some of them might be NRA sympathizers!!!
Yoda out...
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Post by aztecwin on Aug 12, 2010 11:00:51 GMT -8
Help! Help!! The paranoids are chasing me. The location of the mosque has nothing to do with who the Imam is that is in charge of it. There are thousands of mosques in this country and to the extent to which Muslim extremist Imam's run them, they should be very carefully watched. But non-extremist mosques have every bit as much right to be there as do any other church or whatever. And since nobody has any idea about who the Imam will be, this is nothing more than a little paranoia at play. Incidentally, there is already a mosque four blocks from ground zero. It's been there for 40 years -- it predates the World Trade Center construction. Run for your lives, paranoid ones... Bye the way... I hear that there are some Catholic churches that are run by priests who are Irish. We should probably shut them all down as some of them might be NRA sympathizers!!! Yoda out... I wonder if we could build a "Beer Bar" next door? |
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Post by ptsdthor on Aug 12, 2010 12:55:05 GMT -8
Help! Help!! The paranoids are chasing me. The location of the mosque has nothing to do with who the Imam is that is in charge of it. There are thousands of mosques in this country and to the extent to which Muslim extremist Imam's run them, they should be very carefully watched. But non-extremist mosques have every bit as much right to be there as do any other church or whatever. And since nobody has any idea about who the Imam will be, this is nothing more than a little paranoia at play. Incidentally, there is already a mosque four blocks from ground zero. It's been there for 40 years -- it predates the World Trade Center construction. Run for your lives, paranoid ones... Bye the way... I hear that there are some Catholic churches that are run by priests who are Irish. We should probably shut them all down as some of them might be NRA sympathizers!!! Yoda out... Good point. If a particular Catholic Bishop was a known IRA sympathizer, a vocal anti-Gay activist and, worse yet, a occaisonal Guest on Hannity, do you not think that some pro-English or Protestant or Gay Rights group wouldn't have a go at exposing his as such and want to make him the issue and, for good measure, would throw a few monkey wrenches into the works for a new planned Cathedral (especially in NY)? Knowing what I know of the PC crowd, he would be yesterday's breakfast. |
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Post by sdtosf on Aug 14, 2010 15:30:58 GMT -8
I say eliminate all places of worship. Let freedom ring! Just think of the freedom of going to a strip bar and drinking a beer with a totally nude girl on you lap. Can't do that here based on christian based laws...
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Aug 14, 2010 16:20:57 GMT -8
Build the mosque. It is the right thing to do.
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Post by Yoda on Aug 15, 2010 20:08:58 GMT -8
I say eliminate all places of worship. Let freedom ring! Just think of the freedom of going to a strip bar and drinking a beer with a totally nude girl on you lap. Can't do that here based on christian based laws... Move to Alaska. You can do exactly that on Saturday -- and go to church on Sunday. Yoda out... |
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Post by monty on Aug 16, 2010 10:15:12 GMT -8
I say eliminate all places of worship. Let freedom ring! Just think of the freedom of going to a strip bar and drinking a beer with a totally nude girl on you lap. Can't do that here based on christian based laws... No, they are good earners, just tax the $#!+ out of them. |
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