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Post by aztecwin on Sept 6, 2009 20:59:50 GMT -8
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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 6, 2009 21:39:42 GMT -8
Since Obama's mother was a U.S. citizen, would that not make Barack, Jr., a U.S. citizen also?
AzWm
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Post by aztecwin on Sept 7, 2009 10:01:40 GMT -8
Since Obama's mother was a U.S. citizen, would that not make Barack, Jr., a U.S. citizen also? AzWm The definition of "natural born citizen" is ill defined or not spelled out in detail so it is up in the air. If Obama was born in Kenya to an underage gal it becomes even more "iffy". I think that I read that there is a move in Congress to define the situation more clearly and to require a "real" birth certificate in order to get on the ballet. |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Sept 7, 2009 16:32:22 GMT -8
Since Obama's mother was a U.S. citizen, would that not make Barack, Jr., a U.S. citizen also? AzWm It's really rather simple. There is a certain element in this country that doesn't like the fact that we have a Black President and is working overtime to prove that he's not "one of us". The law at the time states that a child born to a citizen and a non-citizen has to have the citizen parent having 5 years of majority. That law has since been changed. It would be an interesting court fight, but the purpose of the attacks is really to get those who aren't sure they like the idea of a Black President to have an excuse for disliking him. And even more to the point, the purpose is to distract from Obama's agenda, just as the right-wing did with Clinton and his blow jobs (keep in mind that they claimed every effort he made, whether or not we agree that they weren't all that great, to kill OBL was Clinton trying to detract from the blow jobs - tail wagging the dog. And based upon this: Smith, whose background includes a lengthy criminal record and a reported attempt to sell his kidney to a man in need of organ transplant, nonetheless insists that his motives are above board, even if his past looks dubious., do you really think this guy cares about a perjury charge. And given that he was trying sell it on Ebay, how much do you think the rag Pooh continues to cite on here paid him for it? =Bob |
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Sept 8, 2009 7:20:33 GMT -8
Orly Taitz. Nuff Said.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 8, 2009 9:45:10 GMT -8
Bob, I have great respect for your general knowledge and intellect. But this business of automatically assuming that those who oppose Barack Obama are racists is, I'm sorry to say, really reprehensible. No doubt there are a number of Americans who are so racially prejudiced that they indeed hate Obama just because he is (half) black.
But if you are going to be honest, you must also admit that there is much in Obama's background that some, no matter how unprejudiced they may be with regard to race, can take exception to. Example: We have never heard a convincing explanation of why Obama should not be criticized for sitting in Wright's church all those years when the good minister was so obviously motivated by racial animus toward Caucasians.
Furthermore, many of Obama's actions since taking office are controversial to say the least.
It's very convenient for the Democrats to imply, or even say straight out, that opposition to Obama is race-based. But it's not very convincing. I had not thought that you would allow yourself to fall into that pattern.
AzWm
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Post by aztecwin on Sept 8, 2009 10:10:19 GMT -8
Since Obama's mother was a U.S. citizen, would that not make Barack, Jr., a U.S. citizen also? AzWm It's really rather simple. There is a certain element in this country that doesn't like the fact that we have a Black President and is working overtime to prove that he's not "one of us". The law at the time states that a child born to a citizen and a non-citizen has to have the citizen parent having 5 years of majority. That law has since been changed. It would be an interesting court fight, but the purpose of the attacks is really to get those who aren't sure they like the idea of a Black President to have an excuse for disliking him. And even more to the point, the purpose is to distract from Obama's agenda, just as the right-wing did with Clinton and his blow jobs (keep in mind that they claimed every effort he made, whether or not we agree that they weren't all that great, to kill OBL was Clinton trying to detract from the blow jobs - tail wagging the dog. And based upon this: Smith, whose background includes a lengthy criminal record and a reported attempt to sell his kidney to a man in need of organ transplant, nonetheless insists that his motives are above board, even if his past looks dubious., do you really think this guy cares about a perjury charge. And given that he was trying sell it on Ebay, how much do you think the rag Pooh continues to cite on here paid him for it? =Bob Any weight that your argument might have is nullified by your racial claims. That just will not fly. There are some for sure, just as there are some who support Obama just because he is a fraction black. The issue is does Obama have a valid birth certificate and does it matter. Now as far as the issue is concerned, Obama could settle the issue in ten minutes. It might be that he welcomes the diversion from his problems as well. The rest is background noise. |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Sept 8, 2009 15:51:33 GMT -8
Bob, I have great respect for your general knowledge and intellect. But this business of automatically assuming that those who oppose Barack Obama are racists is, I'm sorry to say, really reprehensible. No doubt there are a number of Americans who are so racially prejudiced that they indeed hate Obama just because he is (half) black. But if you are going to be honest, you must also admit that there is much in Obama's background that some, no matter how unprejudiced they may be with regard to race, can take exception to. Example: We have never heard a convincing explanation of why Obama should not be criticized for sitting in Wright's church all those years when the good minister was so obviously motivated by racial animus toward Caucasians. Furthermore, many of Obama's actions since taking office are controversial to say the least. It's very convenient for the Democrats to imply, or even say straight out, that opposition to Obama is race-based. But it's not very convincing. I had not thought that you would allow yourself to fall into that pattern. AzWm I didn't say all those who oppose Obama are basing it upon race. I wrote that race is an element in the gut-level hatred that some have expressed toward him. That's particularly true of the birthers, although I'm sure they have willing idiots among people like Pooh, who obviously isn't a racist (but who also continues to bring this up because he figures it's a good troll). But there is an obvious trend among some on the far right to claim that he's "not like us". That was made very clear by the wingnuts who still believe his a Muslim, that he's not an American citizen and that he's some sort of Communist. Will, you've got a total wingnut pastor in Zonieland stating in sermons that he hates Obama - not Obama's policies, but Obama personally and prays every night that Obama will die. Watch Obama's speech to school kids today? Hear much "Socialist propaganda" in it? =Bob |
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Post by aztecwin on Sept 8, 2009 16:14:22 GMT -8
www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=109242Looks like we might have a trial. If nothing else, it will clear up the issue and will give a sense of urgency to the legislation to require an original valid birth certificate in order to run for President.
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Post by davdesid on Sept 8, 2009 16:37:01 GMT -8
Bob, I have great respect for your general knowledge and intellect. But this business of automatically assuming that those who oppose Barack Obama are racists is, I'm sorry to say, really reprehensible. No doubt there are a number of Americans who are so racially prejudiced that they indeed hate Obama just because he is (half) black. But if you are going to be honest, you must also admit that there is much in Obama's background that some, no matter how unprejudiced they may be with regard to race, can take exception to. Example: We have never heard a convincing explanation of why Obama should not be criticized for sitting in Wright's church all those years when the good minister was so obviously motivated by racial animus toward Caucasians. Furthermore, many of Obama's actions since taking office are controversial to say the least. It's very convenient for the Democrats to imply, or even say straight out, that opposition to Obama is race-based. But it's not very convincing. I had not thought that you would allow yourself to fall into that pattern. AzWm I didn't say all those who oppose Obama are basing it upon race. I wrote that race is an element in the gut-level hatred that some have expressed toward him. That's particularly true of the birthers, although I'm sure they have willing idiots among people like Pooh, who obviously isn't a racist (but who also continues to bring this up because he figures it's a good troll). But there is an obvious trend among some on the far right to claim that he's "not like us". That was made very clear by the wingnuts who still believe his a Muslim, that he's not an American citizen and that he's some sort of Communist. Will, you've got a total wingnut pastor in Zonieland stating in sermons that he hates Obama - not Obama's policies, but Obama personally and prays every night that Obama will die. Watch Obama's speech to school kids today? Hear much "Socialist propaganda" in it? =Bob Where was the =Perfesser when this $#!+ was going on  : newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2007/10/06/liberal-website-members-pray-president-bush-dieOh, and on the school kids talk, where was the =Perfesser when this $#!+ was going on : www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/When-Bush-spoke-to-students-Democrats-investigated-held-hearings-57694347.html |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Sept 8, 2009 18:34:12 GMT -8
I didn't say all those who oppose Obama are basing it upon race. I wrote that race is an element in the gut-level hatred that some have expressed toward him. That's particularly true of the birthers, although I'm sure they have willing idiots among people like Pooh, who obviously isn't a racist (but who also continues to bring this up because he figures it's a good troll). But there is an obvious trend among some on the far right to claim that he's "not like us". That was made very clear by the wingnuts who still believe his a Muslim, that he's not an American citizen and that he's some sort of Communist. Will, you've got a total wingnut pastor in Zonieland stating in sermons that he hates Obama - not Obama's policies, but Obama personally and prays every night that Obama will die. Watch Obama's speech to school kids today? Hear much "Socialist propaganda" in it? =Bob Where was the =Perfesser when this $#!+ was going on : newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2007/10/06/liberal-website-members-pray-president-bush-dieOh, and on the school kids talk, where was the =Perfesser when this $#!+ was going on : www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/When-Bush-spoke-to-students-Democrats-investigated-held-hearings-57694347.htmlDave, would it hurt you to just once in your life to offer an opinion instead of looking for links to websites? How is it that someone as intelligent as you are seems incapable of offering an opinion that doesn't come from someone else? I'm sorry, but all you do when you offer links is suggest that you're not intelligent enough to offer an argument of your own. =Bob |
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Post by davdesid on Sept 9, 2009 13:47:01 GMT -8
Dave, would it hurt you to just once in your life to offer an opinion instead of looking for links to websites? How is it that someone as intelligent as you are seems incapable of offering an opinion that doesn't come from someone else? I'm sorry, but all you do when you offer links is suggest that you're not intelligent enough to offer an argument of your own. =Bob You either didn't bother to read the links, or you are too dumb to understand that they are not "opinions", they are FACTS. The first one cites examples of people on your side praying for Bush & Cheney to die, and The second one cites how the Democrat Congress held hearings with an aim toward investigating Bush 41 for giving a similar talk to school kids. I certainly wasn't trying to "offer an argument". I was offering sauce for the goose. And you are either too lazy or too stupid to recognize it. |
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Post by aztecwin on Sept 9, 2009 15:45:47 GMT -8
Dave, would it hurt you to just once in your life to offer an opinion instead of looking for links to websites? How is it that someone as intelligent as you are seems incapable of offering an opinion that doesn't come from someone else? I'm sorry, but all you do when you offer links is suggest that you're not intelligent enough to offer an argument of your own. =Bob It is even more obvious that you can't refute the material so you attack not only the source but also the person pointing the way to that source. Face it, Bob, Obama is in trouble and his Presidency is in trouble after only a few months. |
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Post by aztecwin on Sept 12, 2009 7:23:25 GMT -8
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Sept 12, 2009 8:20:58 GMT -8
Dave, would it hurt you to just once in your life to offer an opinion instead of looking for links to websites? How is it that someone as intelligent as you are seems incapable of offering an opinion that doesn't come from someone else? I'm sorry, but all you do when you offer links is suggest that you're not intelligent enough to offer an argument of your own. =Bob It is even more obvious that you can't refute the material so you attack not only the source but also the person pointing the way to that source. Face it, Bob, Obama is in trouble and his Presidency is in trouble after only a few months. What's to refute. I find responses to a poll by a few wingnuts to be far less dangerous that a pastor preaching hatred from his pulpit. And I was already aware of the nonsense that went on when Bush did his thing in '91, although, as the article points out, most of the controversy occurred after the speech rather than the nonsense the right was putting out this time about it being socialist indoctrination before they ever read the speech. But my main point is that Dave just plays this tit for tat game that really doesn't offer much. One side doing something does not justify the other side doing it. And quite frankly, the hatred toward Obama is far greater than I've ever seen expressed toward any President, and if you think that absolutely none of it is based upon race, you are quite incorrect. =Bob |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 12, 2009 8:44:39 GMT -8
It is even more obvious that you can't refute the material so you attack not only the source but also the person pointing the way to that source. Face it, Bob, Obama is in trouble and his Presidency is in trouble after only a few months. What's to refute. I find responses to a poll by a few wingnuts to be far less dangerous that a pastor preaching hatred from his pulpit. And I was already aware of the nonsense that went on when Bush did his thing in '91, although, as the article points out, most of the controversy occurred after the speech rather than the nonsense the right was putting out this time about it being socialist indoctrination before they ever read the speech. But my main point is that Dave just plays this tit for tat game that really doesn't offer much. One side doing something does not justify the other side doing it. And quite frankly, the hatred toward Obama is far greater than I've ever seen expressed toward any President, and if you think that absolutely none of it is based upon race, you are quite incorrect. =Bob What does the reference to Bush '91 mean? It's over my head. As for hating Obama, I really think that's crazy. There are extremely negative feelings regarding his policies, but I don't see anything close to the psychopathic hatred of George W. Bush that was SOP on the Left for the pervious 8 years. Calling Obama a liar is inappropriate (though it may not be totally unjustified) but comes nowhere close to what was said about W. AzWm |
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Post by aztecwin on Sept 12, 2009 10:25:49 GMT -8
It is even more obvious that you can't refute the material so you attack not only the source but also the person pointing the way to that source. Face it, Bob, Obama is in trouble and his Presidency is in trouble after only a few months. What's to refute. I find responses to a poll by a few wingnuts to be far less dangerous that a pastor preaching hatred from his pulpit. And I was already aware of the nonsense that went on when Bush did his thing in '91, although, as the article points out, most of the controversy occurred after the speech rather than the nonsense the right was putting out this time about it being socialist indoctrination before they ever read the speech. But my main point is that Dave just plays this tit for tat game that really doesn't offer much. One side doing something does not justify the other side doing it. And quite frankly, the hatred toward Obama is far greater than I've ever seen expressed toward any President, and if you think that absolutely none of it is based upon race, you are quite incorrect. =Bob It would be silly to not think that some of the opposition to Obama was race based, but not near as much as you think. His policies and what his actions have been coupled with how he seems to be truth adverse to a degree much larger than anyone including Clinton, that Obama is disliked and appears to be a one term President. |
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Post by davdesid on Sept 12, 2009 15:03:14 GMT -8
>>>I find responses to a poll by a few wingnuts to be far less dangerous that a pastor preaching hatred from his pulpit.<<< You really are a hoot. www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4WMqlfiQKoP.S. I happen to be Italian. Dis guy don' lika me, 'causa Imma "rich whita guy" who steppeda onna da black Jesus. An' he's a preachin' it fromma da pulpit! Momma Mia!!! |
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Post by aztecwin on Sept 13, 2009 15:02:36 GMT -8
>>>I find responses to a poll by a few wingnuts to be far less dangerous that a pastor preaching hatred from his pulpit.<<< You really are a hoot. www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4WMqlfiQKoP.S. I happen to be Italian. Dis guy don' lika me, 'causa Imma "rich whita guy" who steppeda onna da black Jesus. An' he's a preachin' it fromma da pulpit! Momma Mia!!! Obama's inability to see that his long association with a racist like Wright and the use of that association for political advantage by the right is not race based but just common sense. |
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Sept 14, 2009 8:01:13 GMT -8
What's to refute. I find responses to a poll by a few wingnuts to be far less dangerous that a pastor preaching hatred from his pulpit. And I was already aware of the nonsense that went on when Bush did his thing in '91, although, as the article points out, most of the controversy occurred after the speech rather than the nonsense the right was putting out this time about it being socialist indoctrination before they ever read the speech. But my main point is that Dave just plays this tit for tat game that really doesn't offer much. One side doing something does not justify the other side doing it. And quite frankly, the hatred toward Obama is far greater than I've ever seen expressed toward any President, and if you think that absolutely none of it is based upon race, you are quite incorrect. =Bob It would be silly to not think that some of the opposition to Obama was race based, but not near as much as you think. His policies and what his actions have been coupled with how he seems to be truth adverse to a degree much larger than anyone including Clinton, that Obama is disliked and appears to be a one term President. No, it is actually much more than I would have thought. I really believed that this country and outgrown much of that. |
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