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Post by jhonka34 on Jul 26, 2010 23:11:06 GMT -8
I'm going to back Josh up based on the few players I met and have talked to since my time working at the Daily Aztec. One even booed at Kevin Craft, getting sent in shortly after halftime almost on reflex. He heard the name Craft and then booed. He then apologized to me saying he wasn't booking Kevin, but rather Tom. Surprising to say the least. Come on Josh. There's always going to be some players who don't like a coach for a number of reasons. The best barometer is to look and see if the players ever quit on their coach, and you can't in your RIGHT mind tell me that they ever quit on Craft. Check it out if you like. Craft never had the dollars to hire big name assistants, but he had the intuition to hire guys like Buh and Kaumeyer who have done well for themselves, along with having some success on the field for himself. So he did some things on the field as well as on the coaching staff. I agree they didn't. But there's a hell of a lot more to being a good coach than "hey, at least they didn't quit". And it also comes down to how much class you have as the face of the program. Those teams also had some good upperclassmen leadership, especially at the LB position with guys like Kirk Morrison, Blake Lobel, Matt McCoy, Stephen Larsen, etc....Tollner recruits. How we didn't get one bowl at least out of that group is a crying shame. This shall be my last post on this Craft thread. I think I was a lot easier on him than many were on Chuck, who was a poor head coach but from what I heard and read, a good person. Looking forward to season two of Hokeamania! |
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Post by k5james on Jul 26, 2010 23:31:15 GMT -8
To each their own, James. I guess so. Nick Sanford and his family would disagree with your opinion of Long as a person. For every Morrison, McCoy, etc...that Craft inherited there's a OC, Will Robinson, Russell Allen, etc...that Long inherited. They were both god awful just one a little less than the other. |
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Post by McQuervo on Jul 27, 2010 6:54:15 GMT -8
Andy Buh was also a good coach on that staff. Craft made mistakes, but he little resources and the big point is his kids never gave up on him or themselves. You can't say that about Long. That 70-7 game will live with me forever! I sat in a Sports Bar in Avondale AZ and took bets prior on how many plays it would take before the Hobos would score. I said 5, actually it was 6. THAT WAS NEW MEXICO not exactly a scoring machine at the time.... No comparison-that was a total waste, still cant believe he got another OC job- lol they deserve him.  |
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Post by Winaztecs on Jul 27, 2010 7:38:05 GMT -8
I'm going to back Josh up based on the few players I met and have talked to since my time working at the Daily Aztec. One even booed at Kevin Craft, getting sent in shortly after halftime almost on reflex. He heard the name Craft and then booed. He then apologized to me saying he wasn't booking Kevin, but rather Tom. Surprising to say the least. I agree they didn't. But there's a hell of a lot more to being a good coach than "hey, at least they didn't quit". And it also comes down to how much class you have as the face of the program. Those teams also had some good upperclassmen leadership, especially at the LB position with guys like Kirk Morrison, Blake Lobel, Matt McCoy, Stephen Larsen, etc....Tollner recruits. How we didn't get one bowl at least out of that group is a crying shame. This shall be my last post on this Craft thread. I think I was a lot easier on him than many were on Chuck, who was a poor head coach but from what I heard and read, a good person. Looking forward to season two of Hokeamania! I remember a story or 2 like that at the end of Crafts time of being HC. He had lost some of the players at that point, and I don't think Craft's head was into coaching at that point with everything he was dealing with with the University and Ohton lawsuit. |
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Post by Winaztecs on Jul 27, 2010 7:43:01 GMT -8
To each their own, James. I guess so. Nick Sanford and his family would disagree with your opinion of Long as a person. I can add several to that list, including players rolling their eyes and laughing at practice, screwing off on the sidelines, and there were a few times that guys were drinking and partying in the parking lot ON Game Day. (Yes they were active roster players) Josh isn't the only person who knows players and parents, in both Craft and Long tenures. By all accounts I have, Craft's staff had the respect of the players, while the above speaks for its self. |
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Post by monty on Jul 27, 2010 7:59:24 GMT -8
A guy I played ball with in high school was a preferred walk on and he echoed much of what has been said.
It would be funny if there was a Tom Craft signal too
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2010 8:49:48 GMT -8
That 70-7 game will live with me forever! I sat in a Sports Bar in Avondale AZ and took bets prior on how many plays it would take before the Hobos would score. I said 5, actually it was 6. THAT WAS NEW MEXICO not exactly a scoring machine at the time.... No comparison-that was a total waste, still cant believe he got another OC job- lol they deserve him. Donovan Porterie had been injured the game before so UNM was forced to use Brad Gruner at QB. That first TD was a QB keeper on which the minimally athletic Gruner nevertheless faked one of our LBs out of his shoes on the way to the end zone. On their third score (IIRC), he hit one of their receivers wide open in our end zone. Gruner started the remaining four games on their schedule and threw exactly two more TD passes. Hell, UNM scored exactly 46 points in those four games combined. So did the Aztecs quit that day? You betcha. However, they quit just as badly two years earlier at TCU during Chuck's first season. Yeah, we didn't lose by 63, "just" 52, but the yardage scoreboard was 624-87. And the oft-derided Chuck Neinas recommended Jimbo Fisher . . . |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2010 8:52:52 GMT -8
I guess so. Nick Sanford and his family would disagree with your opinion of Long as a person. I can add several to that list, including players rolling their eyes and laughing at practice, screwing off on the sidelines, and there were a few times that guys were drinking and partying in the parking lot ON Game Day. (Yes they were active roster players) The head coach sets the tone for the entire team. Guys who played for him said players were scared sh!tless of little Lou Holtz. Chuck, OTOH, piped in music for his guys and played catch with them. |
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Post by gettough on Jul 27, 2010 9:39:34 GMT -8
And the Louis issue shows me he was just weak, morally weak. He wanted to run a niiiice football team, where everyone would be niiiice. I'm sure he was hoping that Louis would apologize sometime soon.
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Post by Winaztecs on Jul 27, 2010 10:26:56 GMT -8
I can add several to that list, including players rolling their eyes and laughing at practice, screwing off on the sidelines, and there were a few times that guys were drinking and partying in the parking lot ON Game Day. (Yes they were active roster players) The head coach sets the tone for the entire team. Guys who played for him said players were scared sh!tless of little Lou Holtz. Chuck, OTOH, piped in music for his guys and played catch with them. I know exactly the nut job you are talking about, 10 levels above an insane Drill Sergent. He scared crap of me and I was watching from the sideline! Another coach was almost as bad. 1st impression was a nice guy, but then seemed to have an inferiority complex with a short temper & like to chuck is clipboard when he was made to look fool. He had no business being here anyway and still don't know why he was hired. They are gone, and so are the guys I know, but this staff has it together! Just Win Aztecs!!! |
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 27, 2010 12:36:50 GMT -8
Josh, I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that you have a relationship with a certain person that he canned right? Canned? I don't think I have a relationship with anyone that got fired by Tom. If you're referring to Ohton, I don't know him personally but the players were big supporters of his, including former Aztec studs that came back to work out with him. Of course, I guess my biggest complaint was the hiring of a track coach to train the football team, regardless of how good a track coach he was. My cousin, that was an Aztec backup QB, didn't ever seem to talk much about him at all. He was around him very little as the bulk of his career was under Tollner. Don't make it out to be too much....between what was printed in the newspapers during his tenure (you recall those incidents), and what some players told me at a party or two, I just don't have a high opinion of the guy. That's my right. If you don't like it, then that's fine. I never criticized him personally when he was new and struggling, I always critiqued his gameplans (after the Hall-Osgood-Tolver year) which I found to be rather poor. To each their own, James. Again, sure there's going to be a few players, a few boosters, or a coach or two who have something against a head coach for a variety of reasons. To come to the conclusion that he was a bad person or HC just because you HEARD some things at a party from a few guys, is just shallow. I'm just saying that's NOT a reason to say he was a bad coach, or person. All HC's have their enemies. Of course Craft made some mistakes like any coach would if he hadn't run a D1 program before. He was thrown into the fire and I thought he did OK for a guy with no experience at the D1 HC level with zero resources and a losing attitude at the forefront. He just wasn't as bad as some people say. |
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Post by vision on Jul 27, 2010 14:04:59 GMT -8
I wish coach Craft all the best.
SDSU hired him and gave him little in terms of tools. Low pay for assistants, no OC (whether he wanted to call the plays himself or not doesn't matter...still a big chunk of salary) We could have/should have hired an experienced ex-D1 Head coach to be his OC so he could learn some of the things he needed to learn having come from JC.
SDSU got what they paid for, and maybe a bit more.
Sure he made some mistakes, but he did what they knew he could do. He put some points on the board and threw the ball around, recruited how he knew how (questionable academic personalities - much like any JC coach).
I have always contended that if he had had a better boss and SDSU had been able to hand pick (and pay) better people around him, we would have been even more successful than we were during the Craft years. Lets face it, being 6-6 the last few years would have been a blessing.
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 27, 2010 16:04:16 GMT -8
You will find that most if not all of the rotten apples are from hold over players and not players recruited by the current coaching staff. I would not doubt that there were those bitter kids with Craft and with Long. Had Craft had more time and more resources, he would have gradually got a decent program in plalce. Long had no chance in my opinion.
From what I can see so far, Hoke is the real deal and we have to support him and get past Tolner, Craft and Long.
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Post by tonatiuh on Jul 27, 2010 18:28:11 GMT -8
Thanks for posting the article Full_Monty it enticed me to buy the P.E. just to read it, and see the pix! I know there are some on here who do not care for him, but I look at it as a tremendous opportunity to watch his RCC team this fall. They will be putting flight to the ball, and very exciting to watch. I will try to make a couple games when I'm not in San Diego at Aztec games. But then you'd have to spend time in Riverside (unless they have roadies at Mesa, Palomar, or Grossmont). Ugh...Riverside......shudder... Haaaaaa, let me explain something to you wise guy while you pull your foot out of your mouth. I live in Riverside, so going to RCC games is easy for me. You should be more careful about your comments, or check your info first. ;D |
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Post by joshjones1 on Jul 27, 2010 19:52:28 GMT -8
But then you'd have to spend time in Riverside (unless they have roadies at Mesa, Palomar, or Grossmont). Ugh...Riverside......shudder... Haaaaaa, let me explain something to you wise guy while you pull your foot out of your mouth. I live in Riverside, so going to RCC games is easy for me. You should be more careful about your comments, or check your info first. ;D LOL....relax, bud. I'm smart enough to know at least a few readers were Inland Empirers....and someone would weigh in. It was just a joke, as I myself lived in the IE for 6 years (Palm Springs area). I got nothing but love for the area man! Of course....the 91 freeway is a different story. It's pure HELL. H-E-L-L. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2010 22:41:43 GMT -8
Haaaaaa, let me explain something to you wise guy while you pull your foot out of your mouth. I live in Riverside, so going to RCC games is easy for me. You should be more careful about your comments, or check your info first. ;D LOL....relax, bud. I'm smart enough to know at least a few readers were Inland Empirers....and someone would weigh in. It was just a joke, as I myself lived in the IE for 6 years (Palm Springs area). I got nothing but love for the area man! Of course....the 91 freeway is a different story. It's pure HELL. H-E-L-L. I'm curious. Just what kind of an empire is it? |
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Post by joshjones1 on Jul 28, 2010 8:34:29 GMT -8
LOL....relax, bud. I'm smart enough to know at least a few readers were Inland Empirers....and someone would weigh in. It was just a joke, as I myself lived in the IE for 6 years (Palm Springs area). I got nothing but love for the area man! Of course....the 91 freeway is a different story. It's pure HELL. H-E-L-L. I'm curious. Just what kind of an empire is it? Good question. |
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Post by monty on Jul 28, 2010 8:37:03 GMT -8
I'm curious. Just what kind of an empire is it? Good question. An Inland one. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2010 10:21:58 GMT -8
empire: an extensive territory or enterprise under single domination or control Just who is it that dominates the extensive territory comprising this landlocked empire? Sonny Bono's widow?
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jul 28, 2010 11:31:34 GMT -8
For Craft's offense to work, he needs a dominant Offensive line. When the pass blocking is there, there has never been a team or coach to stop the simple genius of Tom's offensive attack. His offense is not complicated. It just requires receivers intelligent enough to make the same reads of the defense as the QB is making. Tom will have success at Riverside as soon as he gets three or four Samoan Offensive Linemen from Oceanside/Vista to come up and over to Riverside to have fun playing a Big Boy's game. The Riverside community might be able to provide two or three more linemen for depth. |
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