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Post by joshjones1 on Jul 25, 2010 16:57:15 GMT -8
Reading that article was like a flashback to reading his quotes after losses. Just more excuses and placing the blame as far from himself as possible. You are 100% correct. |
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Post by goaztecs on Jul 25, 2010 17:07:45 GMT -8
Yes the level playing field was in regards to admissions. He couldn`t get his guys in and other coaches didn`t want to take the job in 01 because of that problem.
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Post by justafan on Jul 26, 2010 11:02:59 GMT -8
Tom Craft is a jackal, and if you know any of his former players.....except maybe for his QB's, ask them what they think of Tom. I've spoken to a few of his ex players who aren't too find of him, and for you who know me well, I ain't referring to my cousin, who never had much to say about him at all. As for an even playing field...I suppose if you refuse to hire an OC at all, don headsets to coordinate with an assistant up top and have all possible information, and then run off a strength coach with an impeccable reputation and bond with his players, just to hire a track coach........while ignoring both lines and recruiting skills players with little academic potential.......you're going to have trouble. Other than the year we beat BYU and Utah....little good came from the Craft era. Considering there's little chance he'd refer any of his players to SDSU, I don't wish him luck at all. Chuck Long, from all reports, was a good man. Just an awful coach. I wish him well. Not Tommy boy. Nice shades. ;D OK Josh, I'll bite. I am interested. What did all of these guys you talked too tell you about Craft that makes you say he is a "Jackal"? I know it may have been some time ago, but do you remember who told you what? I am not Trying to argue the point one way or the other. I would just like to know. Edit: Also, if you can remember who you talked to, that would be good too. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 26, 2010 11:54:56 GMT -8
Considering the really serious trouble some other coaches have gotten their schools into over the years, the sour attitude toward Tom Craft puzzles me. I'm not saying that Craft did not screw up in a number of ways. I am also not saying that his hiring was not a mistake . . it was!
Still, why all the nastiness? Some fans act as if he had poisoned their dog or seduced their daughter. Come on, let it go.
I, personally, hope that Tom Craft does well at Riverside CC. If Brady Hoke is smart, and I think he is, he will contact Craft and ask the coach for his help in recruiting outstanding Riverside players eager to move to a Div-I school.
And Chuck Long, as seen in the Lance Lewis case, may not have been quite as squeaky clean as some think. Long's character was challenged in that case, and he failed to meet the challenge. That incident is worse than anything Craft did, in my opinion.
AzWm
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Post by southbaysucker on Jul 26, 2010 12:21:03 GMT -8
[ [/quote]
San Diego is NOT a sports town today. They haven't supported the Aztecs as a community since the Coryell years(and into Gilbert's). There was a small town mentality back then. There were billboards all over, cardboard schedules in retail establishments. Ads on bus benches. etc., etc. There was a PRIDE about Aztec football in general. You old timers can remember this.
You have a mayor who never wears gear Or promotes the Aztecs ,and he's an alum. Not to mention a lot of other prominent alums who don't give a $#!+. I guess it's the culture, and I have no answer on how o correct it. But if the Aztecs are to succeed, they have to get local support just like the schools in Utah, Oklahoma, Oregon, et al.[/quote]
well put..
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Post by gettough on Jul 26, 2010 12:34:30 GMT -8
San Diego is NOT a sports town today. They haven't supported the Aztecs as a community since the Coryell years(and into Gilbert's). There was a small town mentality back then. There were billboards all over, cardboard schedules in retail establishments. Ads on bus benches. etc., etc. There was a PRIDE about Aztec football in general. You old timers can remember this. You have a mayor who never wears gear Or promotes the Aztecs ,and he's an alum. Not to mention a lot of other prominent alums who don't give a $#!+. I guess it's the culture, and I have no answer on how o correct it. But if the Aztecs are to succeed, they have to get local support just like the schools in Utah, Oklahoma, Oregon, et al.[/quote] well put..[/quote] People were proud to say they were from State when we won all the time against small-town schools and we perceived ourselves as small-town. Now and then we beat the big-time schools, so we felt like we could take on anyone. We felt like the over-looked team from the over-looked town. IDENTITY. The town identified with the team. But then when the administrative commitment waned and we stopped winning, what was there to be proud of? to identify with? When this team begins to vie for championships year in and year out, when it goes to bowl games, when it upsets a Missouri or a Michigan now and then, and maybe at some point before I die beats UCLA, the town will support the team once again. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 26, 2010 12:48:39 GMT -8
Tom Craft is a jackal, and if you know any of his former players.....except maybe for his QB's, ask them what they think of Tom. I've spoken to a few of his ex players who aren't too find of him, and for you who know me well, I ain't referring to my cousin, who never had much to say about him at all. As for an even playing field...I suppose if you refuse to hire an OC at all, don headsets to coordinate with an assistant up top and have all possible information, and then run off a strength coach with an impeccable reputation and bond with his players, just to hire a track coach........while ignoring both lines and recruiting skills players with little academic potential.......you're going to have trouble. Other than the year we beat BYU and Utah....little good came from the Craft era. Considering there's little chance he'd refer any of his players to SDSU, I don't wish him luck at all. Chuck Long, from all reports, was a good man. Just an awful coach. I wish him well. Not Tommy boy. Nice shades. ;D Come on Josh. There's always going to be some players who don't like a coach for a number of reasons. The best barometer is to look and see if the players ever quit on their coach, and you can't in your RIGHT mind tell me that they ever quit on Craft. Check it out if you like. Craft never had the dollars to hire big name assistants, but he had the intuition to hire guys like Buh and Kaumeyer who have done well for themselves, along with having some success on the field for himself. So he did some things on the field as well as on the coaching staff. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2010 13:44:26 GMT -8
The best barometer is to look and see if the players ever quit on their coach, and you can't in your RIGHT mind tell me that they ever quit on Craft. Check it out if you like. Craft never had the dollars to hire big name assistants, but he had the intuition to hire guys like Buh and Kaumeyer who have done well for themselves, along with having some success on the field for himself. Unless I've forgotten over time, you're correct that unlike with Chuck, the team never quit on Tom. As to Craft's staff, I'm on the fence about Kaumeyer. I think he's probably a pretty good coach but at SDSU, he was by far the most successful when he was using almost exclusively Delgado's guys. Buh I have no such quandary about. He was a great hire considering the pittance Craft was able to pay and among Chuck's many mistakes was letting him go and hiring the scary guy instead. (BTW, you do have to admit that Craft's retention of DB from Tollner's staff was similarly a major error.) |
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Post by goaztecs on Jul 26, 2010 16:47:41 GMT -8
Tom Craft is a jackal, and if you know any of his former players.....except maybe for his QB's, ask them what they think of Tom. I've spoken to a few of his ex players who aren't too find of him, and for you who know me well, I ain't referring to my cousin, who never had much to say about him at all. As for an even playing field...I suppose if you refuse to hire an OC at all, don headsets to coordinate with an assistant up top and have all possible information, and then run off a strength coach with an impeccable reputation and bond with his players, just to hire a track coach........while ignoring both lines and recruiting skills players with little academic potential.......you're going to have trouble. How many ex players did you talk to? You seem to have the best points and inside info to the program out of any posters. Did Fredrick Collins like him? Armstrong sure screwed himself up. What ever happend to him? We haven t been competive since he left. At least in 05 we could compete with teams. Other than the year we beat BYU and Utah....little good came from the Craft era. Considering there's little chance he'd refer any of his players to SDSU, I don't wish him luck at all. Chuck Long, from all reports, was a good man. Just an awful coach. I wish him well. Not Tommy boy. Nice shades. ;D |
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Post by joshjones1 on Jul 26, 2010 18:47:15 GMT -8
Tom Craft is a jackal, and if you know any of his former players.....except maybe for his QB's, ask them what they think of Tom. I've spoken to a few of his ex players who aren't too find of him, and for you who know me well, I ain't referring to my cousin, who never had much to say about him at all. As for an even playing field...I suppose if you refuse to hire an OC at all, don headsets to coordinate with an assistant up top and have all possible information, and then run off a strength coach with an impeccable reputation and bond with his players, just to hire a track coach........while ignoring both lines and recruiting skills players with little academic potential.......you're going to have trouble. Other than the year we beat BYU and Utah....little good came from the Craft era. Considering there's little chance he'd refer any of his players to SDSU, I don't wish him luck at all. Chuck Long, from all reports, was a good man. Just an awful coach. I wish him well. Not Tommy boy. Nice shades. ;D OK Josh, I'll bite. I am interested. What did all of these guys you talked too tell you about Craft that makes you say he is a "Jackal"? I know it may have been some time ago, but do you remember who told you what? I am not Trying to argue the point one way or the other. I would just like to know. Edit: Also, if you can remember who you talked to, that would be good too. I didn't say I would reveal who, and I won't. I said if you know players from his regime..ask them. I'm not sure how long you've been around, but some of the older guys that know me and have met me, they know that some of my high school teammates played at SDSU. Not all part of the same class. I got to meet quite a few Aztecs over the years, and the few I talked to about Craft were NOT fans. This includes his recruits, and Tollners. I guess you could ask Mike Kracalik what he thinks of him too. Ol Tom wasn't too well loved around campus, from players, nor boosters as far as I could tell. |
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Post by joshjones1 on Jul 26, 2010 18:48:21 GMT -8
Tom Craft is a jackal, and if you know any of his former players.....except maybe for his QB's, ask them what they think of Tom. I've spoken to a few of his ex players who aren't too find of him, and for you who know me well, I ain't referring to my cousin, who never had much to say about him at all. As for an even playing field...I suppose if you refuse to hire an OC at all, don headsets to coordinate with an assistant up top and have all possible information, and then run off a strength coach with an impeccable reputation and bond with his players, just to hire a track coach........while ignoring both lines and recruiting skills players with little academic potential.......you're going to have trouble. Other than the year we beat BYU and Utah....little good came from the Craft era. Considering there's little chance he'd refer any of his players to SDSU, I don't wish him luck at all. Chuck Long, from all reports, was a good man. Just an awful coach. I wish him well. Not Tommy boy. Nice shades. ;D Come on Josh. There's always going to be some players who don't like a coach for a number of reasons. The best barometer is to look and see if the players ever quit on their coach, and you can't in your RIGHT mind tell me that they ever quit on Craft. Check it out if you like. Craft never had the dollars to hire big name assistants, but he had the intuition to hire guys like Buh and Kaumeyer who have done well for themselves, along with having some success on the field for himself. So he did some things on the field as well as on the coaching staff. Some things. |
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Post by k5james on Jul 26, 2010 19:03:40 GMT -8
Josh, I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that you have a relationship with a certain person that he canned right?  |
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Post by tonatiuh on Jul 26, 2010 20:26:59 GMT -8
Thanks for posting the article Full_Monty it enticed me to buy the P.E. just to read it, and see the pix!
I know there are some on here who do not care for him, but I look at it as a tremendous opportunity
to watch his RCC team this fall. They will be putting flight to the ball, and very exciting to watch. I
will try to make a couple games when I'm not in San Diego at Aztec games.
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Post by retiredaztec on Jul 26, 2010 21:23:54 GMT -8
Yes the level playing field was in regards to admissions. He couldn`t get his guys in and other coaches didn`t want to take the job in 01 because of that problem. I do recall this as being presented as an issue, that other schools would admit athletes that State wouldn't, (some fantasy about State fancying themselves as the Michigan of the west, or the Stanford of the south). One of the advantages of being "old" is accepting when you have no clue. (Which I ultimately don't). I can only assume at the very least that TC believed this to be true. I can also believe that this would apply against the likes of Fresno State, or closer to home, UNLV. That said, I'm amazed that programs like Utah and BYU would admit student athletes that State wouldn't. However, I still believe as I related on an earlier post, one of the biggest disparities against other more successful programs is the ability to attract quality mid-level blue chip athletes. Do I want to go to a school where a seeming majority of the student, and community, population couldn't care less about the football program, (as reflected by attendance), or a school where I can achieve celebrity like status and play in front of huge crowds. In the ten years I've been in SLC, I believe there has been more SD kids coming to play up here, then Utahn's going to San Diego. That ain't right. And I believe that's the challenge for the recent and current generation of coaching staffs at State. They've got be good enough to win with the hand they've been dealt and until they do, the trickle down effect, (community support, more quality student athlete interest in the program), just ain't gonna happen. But I figure if 71 year old Ron McBride can turn it around and achieve success at Weber State, then perhaps our latest Gladiator (and his troops) can pull it off for State. I'm gonna be optimistic. Really. |
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Post by joshjones1 on Jul 26, 2010 22:04:51 GMT -8
Josh, I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that you have a relationship with a certain person that he canned right? Canned? I don't think I have a relationship with anyone that got fired by Tom. If you're referring to Ohton, I don't know him personally but the players were big supporters of his, including former Aztec studs that came back to work out with him. Of course, I guess my biggest complaint was the hiring of a track coach to train the football team, regardless of how good a track coach he was. My cousin, that was an Aztec backup QB, didn't ever seem to talk much about him at all. He was around him very little as the bulk of his career was under Tollner. Don't make it out to be too much....between what was printed in the newspapers during his tenure (you recall those incidents), and what some players told me at a party or two, I just don't have a high opinion of the guy. That's my right. If you don't like it, then that's fine. I never criticized him personally when he was new and struggling, I always critiqued his gameplans (after the Hall-Osgood-Tolver year) which I found to be rather poor. To each their own, James. |
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Post by joshjones1 on Jul 26, 2010 22:08:05 GMT -8
Thanks for posting the article Full_Monty it enticed me to buy the P.E. just to read it, and see the pix! I know there are some on here who do not care for him, but I look at it as a tremendous opportunity to watch his RCC team this fall. They will be putting flight to the ball, and very exciting to watch. I will try to make a couple games when I'm not in San Diego at Aztec games. But then you'd have to spend time in Riverside (unless they have roadies at Mesa, Palomar, or Grossmont). Ugh...Riverside......shudder... |
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Post by joshjones1 on Jul 26, 2010 22:15:21 GMT -8
Tom Craft is a jackal, and if you know any of his former players.....except maybe for his QB's, ask them what they think of Tom. I've spoken to a few of his ex players who aren't too find of him, and for you who know me well, I ain't referring to my cousin, who never had much to say about him at all. As for an even playing field...I suppose if you refuse to hire an OC at all, don headsets to coordinate with an assistant up top and have all possible information, and then run off a strength coach with an impeccable reputation and bond with his players, just to hire a track coach........while ignoring both lines and recruiting skills players with little academic potential.......you're going to have trouble. Other than the year we beat BYU and Utah....little good came from the Craft era. Considering there's little chance he'd refer any of his players to SDSU, I don't wish him luck at all. Chuck Long, from all reports, was a good man. Just an awful coach. I wish him well. Not Tommy boy. Nice shades. ;D Come on Josh. There's always going to be some players who don't like a coach for a number of reasons. The best barometer is to look and see if the players ever quit on their coach, and you can't in your RIGHT mind tell me that they ever quit on Craft. Check it out if you like. Craft never had the dollars to hire big name assistants, but he had the intuition to hire guys like Buh and Kaumeyer who have done well for themselves, along with having some success on the field for himself. So he did some things on the field as well as on the coaching staff. I agree they didn't. But there's a hell of a lot more to being a good coach than "hey, at least they didn't quit". And it also comes down to how much class you have as the face of the program. Those teams also had some good upperclassmen leadership, especially at the LB position with guys like Kirk Morrison, Blake Lobel, Matt McCoy, Stephen Larsen, etc....Tollner recruits. How we didn't get one bowl at least out of that group is a crying shame. This shall be my last post on this Craft thread. I think I was a lot easier on him than many were on Chuck, who was a poor head coach but from what I heard and read, a good person. Looking forward to season two of Hokeamania! |
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 26, 2010 22:33:58 GMT -8
The best barometer is to look and see if the players ever quit on their coach, and you can't in your RIGHT mind tell me that they ever quit on Craft. Check it out if you like. Craft never had the dollars to hire big name assistants, but he had the intuition to hire guys like Buh and Kaumeyer who have done well for themselves, along with having some success on the field for himself. Unless I've forgotten over time, you're correct that unlike with Chuck, the team never quit on Tom. As to Craft's staff, I'm on the fence about Kaumeyer. I think he's probably a pretty good coach but at SDSU, he was by far the most successful when he was using almost exclusively Delgado's guys. Buh I have no such quandary about. He was a great hire considering the pittance Craft was able to pay and among Chuck's many mistakes was letting him go and hiring the scary guy instead. (BTW, you do have to admit that Craft's retention of DB from Tollner's staff was similarly a major error.) Andy Buh was also a good coach on that staff. Craft made mistakes, but he little resources and the big point is his kids never gave up on him or themselves. You can't say that about Long. |
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 26, 2010 22:34:35 GMT -8
Unless I've forgotten over time, you're correct that unlike with Chuck, the team never quit on Tom. As to Craft's staff, I'm on the fence about Kaumeyer. I think he's probably a pretty good coach but at SDSU, he was by far the most successful when he was using almost exclusively Delgado's guys. Buh I have no such quandary about. He was a great hire considering the pittance Craft was able to pay and among Chuck's many mistakes was letting him go and hiring the scary guy instead. (BTW, you do have to admit that Craft's retention of DB from Tollner's staff was similarly a major error.) Andy Buh was also a good coach on that staff. Craft made mistakes, but he little resources and the big point is his kids never gave up on him or themselves. You can't say that about Long. That 70-7 game will live with me forever! |
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Post by justafan on Jul 26, 2010 22:40:34 GMT -8
OK Josh, I'll bite. I am interested. What did all of these guys you talked too tell you about Craft that makes you say he is a "Jackal"? I know it may have been some time ago, but do you remember who told you what? I am not Trying to argue the point one way or the other. I would just like to know. Edit: Also, if you can remember who you talked to, that would be good too. I didn't say I would reveal who, and I won't. I said if you know players from his regime..ask them. I'm not sure how long you've been around, but some of the older guys that know me and have met me, they know that some of my high school teammates played at SDSU. Not all part of the same class. I got to meet quite a few Aztecs over the years, and the few I talked to about Craft were NOT fans. This includes his recruits, and Tollners. I guess you could ask Mike Kracalik what he thinks of him too. Ol Tom wasn't too well loved around campus, from players, nor boosters as far as I could tell. So this makes him a "Jackal" huh ? Thanks for the clarification...I guess. |
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