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Post by azterick on Jul 26, 2010 13:46:29 GMT -8
That's very honest CV. I appreciate it. Those suggestions/observations are true at the high school level as well.
Seems like we're touching on some of the different aspects of this program. Usdaztec and gettough have good points. There are "consistently good" programs as referenced. CV, you're right about luck as well. If you play in a number of tournaments, as travel ball teams do, then eventually you'll win a couple. Even the good teams get blown out early at times too. All depends on match-ups and who's on. For a team to win the LL World Series they have to be good AND lucky....maybe miss an opposing team's ace and face a few #2's and 3's (pitchers). There is luck involved in winning any tournament...such as the NCAA's.
Bottom line for me is I think the program is headed in the right direction. The program has so much going for it as usdaztec listed above. I would rather my son play for TG than Hill (at USD). I would like to see CV's suggestions instilled. Fisher didn't get to where he is over night, but he has become consistent...and he still hasn't won a tournament game here. Yet we're all excited about this hoops season. I wouldn't trade him.
San Diego ball players do consider and want to play for the Aztecs. Which really is what the topic of this thread was.
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Post by gettough on Jul 26, 2010 13:46:35 GMT -8
Very insightful, thanks.
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Post by cvbigguy on Jul 26, 2010 13:50:39 GMT -8
As a parent i hope to talk to him and discuss his thoughts on these topics. as a long time sd local i would love to see the program take off and soar to new heights as they have the potential. i hope my kid can be a leader this year and start something....
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Post by azterick on Jul 26, 2010 13:54:55 GMT -8
CV, I've always felt that Tony is an open-minded, open-door, approachable kind of guy. One that is willing to admit his faults in order to learn and become better. You don't get in to the HOF without acknowledging your own faults and then working hard at correcting them. Do you think he would be receptive to someone such as yourself in pointing out what you mentioned before? Seems like there needs to be more structure.
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Post by dshawfan on Jul 26, 2010 14:32:13 GMT -8
here is the problem what is to be considered success? winning the conference tourney?regional every year? super regional every year? world series every year? anything beyond the conference tourney is luck. for any school..... no matter who the coach is so back to the question of what is a successful program? The program your son came from would meet my definition of a successful program. |
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Post by dshawfan on Jul 26, 2010 14:33:49 GMT -8
as a parent of a player on the team i see things from a different point of view on a lot of these topics about the baseball program. I see that Tony has a more professional philosophy towards his players and not as much of a college approach. i see Tony as giving the players room to grow and treats them as adults. i have noticed that some of the players do not do well under this type of coaching as they need a more hands on coach because they are not ready to be let go yet. i do not know if there is a certain philosophy he abides by. it seems he handles each player different. i know for my son this has worked well as he is a hard worker and does well and pushes himself but some players cannot push themselves at the college level and that is where i see the coaching lacking. i do not see a cohesive unit on the field because of this coaching style. some are over here, some are over there and it does not seem like a college team atmosphere but more like the pro's where you are left to find your own way.... it's kinda hard to put in words but if you see the team you may notice this.... i do know that it is not like any college team i played for as far as cohesiveness and team togetherness. no team get togethers, dinners, fun times off the field. if he could mix these things in i think he would do his program a favor. they need to be a team and i dont see it... they could be with a little fun and games and not all work...... +100 |
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Post by cvbigguy on Jul 26, 2010 14:51:12 GMT -8
i hope so and hope to chat with him soon. i agree he needs more structure as they are just high school grads with all the new freedoms of college and need the structure. it would be a step in the right direction but am ambivalent as far as how he will receive it.
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Post by gettough on Jul 26, 2010 15:28:27 GMT -8
here is the problem what is to be considered success? winning the conference tourney?regional every year? super regional every year? world series every year? anything beyond the conference tourney is luck. for any school..... no matter who the coach is so back to the question of what is a successful program? The program your son came from would meet my definition of a successful program. Yes, the hs program Brandon played in. That coach has a ton of respect in the baseball community. They play fundamentally sound baseball every game. He develops at least 9 guys and enough pitching to be competitive every year against anyone. He doesn't rely on talent that may come or may not come. He develops baseball players and the Win-Loss record, tournament championships and league titles bear this out. |
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Post by cvbigguy on Jul 26, 2010 15:34:30 GMT -8
If they could only win a cif championship...
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Post by 1lefty on Jul 26, 2010 15:43:24 GMT -8
Here is my take:
I think any HS kid in San Diego would love to play at SDSU. PERIOD!!!
The main reason you play college baseball is to get an education. If you get drafted that gravey. Baseball is secondary.
I support CV, the team aspect is missing. These are not Pro MLB players TG is coaching, and he needs to make an adjustment! I think TG needs to rethink his philosphy. Get more involved with each kid on and off the field, and I think it will pay dividends
My son has sparked the interest of the baseball team. We met with the coaches in person and no TG in site. So where is the commitment? The kid is there with his parents to talk about his future and no TG. Granted they did meet later in the day during BP, but he needs to be in those meetings talking with parents.
Everything is there with this program, but like anything else adjustments need to be made and unfortunately State is adjusting very slowly.
Lefty...
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Post by cvbigguy on Jul 26, 2010 16:00:18 GMT -8
I think we are getting somewhere....
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Post by southbaysucker on Jul 27, 2010 7:10:07 GMT -8
usdaztec, . I was attempting to point out that there aren't too many 16 year old kids in SD that have such disdain for Aztec baseball. What kid would say "What the Hell do I want to go there for?" . be leary of the phrase "Top Prospects" Its not a disdain for aztec baseball, its more a feeling that there is something more and better near by. There is no excitement for the program, and at most games sans Strausberg ,not much atmosphere or vibe that other southern california teams enjoy on a consistent basis.. . Which leads me to this, I think the biggest drawback to sdsu baseball and really SDSU sports in general , is sdsu football.. From a totally selfish perspective, Aztec baseball would be better served in the Big West conference for many reasons.: Like State,the majority of schools are commuter schools- and Aside from UC santa barbara , and depending on traffic are about a 2 hour car ride away or in the case of the two up north a fairly cheap round trip ticket away..I think more students and people would have more an interest in seeing /rooting against these schools rather than the Utah schools or air force and Unlv. Moreover there would have to be urgency about everything that is SDSU baseball- from coaching and player performance, to security and parking!! - due to the consistent quality and university support of the majority of that leagues schools.. Unfortunately none of them ave D I football soooooooooooooooooo |
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Post by steveaztec on Jul 27, 2010 7:12:50 GMT -8
A legit, local 2012 grad. baseball prospect was at a showcase I attended recently. Somebody approached him about his intentions after High School,-what schools he was he interested in and what camps was he going to etc. the guy asked him -"What About State" his response? "What the Hell do I want to go there for?" which is a legit question, especially for all you would be Coach Valenzuela's out there . Your turn. Why should a high level baseball recruit be interested in coming to play for the two and outers?-- and please, I don't want to hear the good ole "the Academics" I congratulate all that can attend a university and respect that nearly all of the advance institutions offer a "good education." Lets make it a six reason limit - that seems to about the length of a recruits attention span !! Well.....One of the greatest young pitchers to ever come up (Stephen Strasburg) went there as a lightly recruited player and came out of San Diego State with millions. As a hitter, you are coached by one of the greatest hitters to ever play major league baseball. My question is.....Why not? |
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Post by southbaysucker on Jul 27, 2010 7:36:19 GMT -8
as a parent of a player on the team i see things from a different point of view on a lot of these topics about the baseball program. I see that Tony has a more professional philosophy towards his players and not as much of a college approach. i see Tony as giving the players room to grow and treats them as adults. i have noticed that some of the players do not do well under this type of coaching as they need a more hands on coach because they are not ready to be let go yet. i do not know if there is a certain philosophy he abides by. it seems he handles each player different. i know for my son this has worked well as he is a hard worker and does well and pushes himself but some players cannot push themselves at the college level and that is where i see the coaching lacking. i do not see a cohesive unit on the field because of this coaching style. some are over here, some are over there and it does not seem like a college team atmosphere but more like the pro's where you are left to find your own way.... it's kinda hard to put in words but if you see the team you may notice this.... i do know that it is not like any college team i played for as far as cohesiveness and team togetherness. no team get togethers, dinners, fun times off the field. if he could mix these things in i think he would do his program a favor.quote] Not sure about the team gatherings and such and from how you describe it, he probably leaves that stuff for the players to organize and pull off themselves, which he should I think... TGs approach is quite clear. He definitely is trying to prepare the players for the next level and he probably assumes that by doing so will help the ball club immediately. I really think players prefer his style compared to the over zealous, total controlling ubbercoaches -USD anyone- that are in vogue now. UCLA had Gary Adams for years and he had the same style as TG. He produced many MLBers and had some really good teams that couldnt get over the hump in league and in the ncaas. He too was critized for his approach. Ultimately he was let go by the new administration in favor of John Savage - an ubber coach. You wont find a former Bruin who has a bad thing to say about Adams and the way he treated players/parents and fans.. Our local ubber coach has a line from tijauana to fallbrook of players and fans who want a piece of him.. I mean its a tough call.. The College game and Pro game are more distant in style and performance than they have ever been. I mean , how many times in pro ball do you see a five nine clean up hitter, safety and suiscide squeeze in the same game? that would be never. You have to recruit kids that will totally by into the metal bat game for that - which Savage did at ucla and surrounded them with a ridiculous staff--sound familiar USD fans?. I think TG is more worried about traditional baseball- which I think kids prefer. He seems more willing to let kid work out of a slump or a situation. His style definitely is not controlling. |
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Post by southbaysucker on Jul 27, 2010 7:38:22 GMT -8
i hope so and hope to chat with him soon. i agree he needs more structure as they are just high school grads with all the new freedoms of college and need the structure. it would be a step in the right direction but am ambivalent as far as how he will receive it. I think your ambivalence suggest that you KNOW how he will receive it!! |
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Post by southbaysucker on Jul 27, 2010 8:19:26 GMT -8
Here is my take: I think any HS kid in San Diego would love to play at SDSU. PERIOD!!! The main reason you play college baseball is to get an education. If you get drafted that gravey. Baseball is secondary. I support CV, the team aspect is missing. These are not Pro MLB players TG is coaching, and he needs to make an adjustment! I think TG needs to rethink his philosphy. Get more involved with each kid on and off the field, and I think it will pay dividends Lefty... State isn't looking for "any" HS player- university sports aren't a social service - State is looking looking for the Best players, the ones that are signing rather than attend school , the ones that are going to other universities... I think your perception about college sports is really off. Sports allow many to get an education. At the college level , they work hand in hand. In baseball, a programs prominence and exposure draws kids in, in hopes of getting drafted , or drafted higher one day. this whole thing about a University coach being a quasi camp director and rec leader is a bit disturbing ..As parents you are asking a lot I think. As for recruiting. Assistants do the brunt of the work. the head coach is a finisher. If he doesn't seemed overly excited about a recruit or maybe distant to his parents, then the obvious is probably true, maybe he doesn't have the interest that his assistants do for the player. |
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Post by 1lefty on Jul 27, 2010 9:26:26 GMT -8
Here is my take: I think any HS kid in San Diego would love to play at SDSU. PERIOD!!! The main reason you play college baseball is to get an education. If you get drafted that gravey. Baseball is secondary. I support CV, the team aspect is missing. These are not Pro MLB players TG is coaching, and he needs to make an adjustment! I think TG needs to rethink his philosphy. Get more involved with each kid on and off the field, and I think it will pay dividends Lefty... State isn't looking for "any" HS player- university sports aren't a social service - State is looking looking for the Best players, the ones that are signing rather than attend school , the ones that are going to other universities... I think your perception about college sports is really off. Sports allow many to get an education. At the college level , they work hand in hand. In baseball, a programs prominence and exposure draws kids in, in hopes of getting drafted , or drafted higher one day. this whole thing about a University coach being a quasi camp director and rec leader is a bit disturbing ..As parents you are asking a lot I think. As for recruiting. Assistants do the brunt of the work. the head coach is a finisher. If he doesn't seemed overly excited about a recruit or maybe distant to his parents, then the obvious is probably true, maybe he doesn't have the interest that his assistants do for the player. |
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Post by 1lefty on Jul 27, 2010 9:28:49 GMT -8
Understand, but each kid and family values education differently. This is probably one of the main reasons a bunch of kids will not be coming back this year. Academics!!!
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Post by cvbigguy on Jul 27, 2010 14:17:41 GMT -8
we lost 5 players this year due to academics alone...
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Post by southbaysucker on Jul 27, 2010 14:41:50 GMT -8
And lets be Honest, some of those kids didnt really "fit" the baseball program needs either..
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