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Post by AztecWilliam on Mar 25, 2011 21:59:57 GMT -8
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Post by aztecwin on Mar 26, 2011 7:00:49 GMT -8
I have been through Detroit on my way from the Detroit Airport over to Windsor, Ontario. It is sad beyond words. This article gives you some of the reasoning and background, but it goes deeper. I find the point about poverty among unmarried household and married households telling. |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Mar 26, 2011 7:39:17 GMT -8
Detroit had a massive influx of really stupid people. With that migration came rapidly declining IQ scores in the public school system. Stanford University has the Detroit documentation from 1920 on if you go to their archives. Average IQ in 1920 was about 103. Average IQ now is about 83.
Dumb people do not own houses. Dumb people do not repair houses. Dumb people simply don't give a sheeet about what we used to call the American Dream. Dump people in large numbers destroy cities.
Cities with higher average IQ's generally do well. They live long, they prosper and they survive.
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Post by inevitec on Mar 26, 2011 14:40:15 GMT -8
Why has Detroit decline so badly? Is that declined so badly? |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Mar 26, 2011 19:44:34 GMT -8
Why has Detroit decline so badly? Is that declined so badly? Most of us have learned to read through typos and do not worry about them. At my age, I sometimes can't see them even if I stare at the line of type for five minutes. As I tell people, " I know what I typed even if it is not what is there. I will still see what I intended to type." Typos are a part of life, sort of like farts. |
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Post by inevitec on Mar 27, 2011 6:20:52 GMT -8
Why has Detroit decline so badly? Is that declined so badly? Most of us have learned to read through typos and do not worry about them. At my age, I sometimes can't see them even if I stare at the line of type for five minutes. As I tell people, " I know what I typed even if it is not what is there. I will still see what I intended to type." Typos are a part of life, sort of like farts. I was conveying a more complex message to the writer than a suggestion to correct a typo. He seems pretty condescending to me. I was merely,very subtly, suggesting that he, as all conservatives, might be imperfect too. And, heck, I have even received PMs for not highlighting text to someone's satisfaction. As for the article. Such statements as "Handouts are to blame" and "Detroit has been destroyed by a half-century-long string of liberal programs and policies beginning with the "Great Society" are simple minded, written by people with an ideology to support, and fail to take into account that the changes to nuclear families suggested by the author have also occurred outside the African American Community. In other words, the article is simple minded bu$$ Sh*t. The forces causing Detroit's decline have more to do with the fact that others began to build automobiles that were more dependable than American cars than it does with any handout. But the issue is complex and requires more careful analysis than the one provided by the drone writing the piece. Once again we go back to the real theme. A "handout", the Great Society, Medicare etc. require that some one pay taxes. Conservatives do not want to pay taxes. Therefore, conservatives will denigrate any use of tax money as wasteful and destructive. It is an old and tired trope proffered by people who refuse to draw a conclusion based on something other than their own narrow self interest. And our country is worse for them. From The Detroit News: detnews.com/article/20110325/OPIN....ame-for-Detroit’s-steady-slide#ixzz1HoAdjamD |
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Post by uwaztec on Mar 27, 2011 7:36:48 GMT -8
Not recent that's for sure. Detroit was bad when I was a kid (40 years ago)... as dangerous as west Oakland or Richmond. |
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Post by aztecwin on Mar 27, 2011 8:31:34 GMT -8
Why has Detroit decline so badly? Is that declined so badly? I suggest that unless there has been som editing going on, you are wrong in suggesting William did not use proper language. You did not quote what was written. Forget the headline, it is the meat of the story where you will find no problem with the language. |
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Post by aztecwin on Mar 27, 2011 8:32:35 GMT -8
Why has Detroit decline so badly? Is that declined so badly? Most of us have learned to read through typos and do not worry about them. At my age, I sometimes can't see them even if I stare at the line of type for five minutes. As I tell people, " I know what I typed even if it is not what is there. I will still see what I intended to type." Typos are a part of life, sort of like farts. I agree with what you say, but where is that typo? |
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Post by aztecwin on Mar 27, 2011 8:40:56 GMT -8
Most of us have learned to read through typos and do not worry about them. At my age, I sometimes can't see them even if I stare at the line of type for five minutes. As I tell people, " I know what I typed even if it is not what is there. I will still see what I intended to type." Typos are a part of life, sort of like farts. I was conveying a more complex message to the writer than a suggestion to correct a typo. He seems pretty condescending to me. I was merely,very subtly, suggesting that he, as all conservatives, might be imperfect too. And, heck, I have even received PMs for not highlighting text to someone's satisfaction. As for the article. Such statements as "Handouts are to blame" and "Detroit has been destroyed by a half-century-long string of liberal programs and policies beginning with the "Great Society" are simple minded, written by people with an ideology to support, and fail to take into account that the changes to nuclear families suggested by the author have also occurred outside the African American Community. In other words, the article is simple minded bu$$ Sh*t. The forces causing Detroit's decline have more to do with the fact that others began to build automobiles that were more dependable than American cars than it does with any handout. But the issue is complex and requires more careful analysis than the one provided by the drone writing the piece. Once again we go back to the real theme. A "handout", the Great Society, Medicare etc. require that some one pay taxes. Conservatives do not want to pay taxes. Therefore, conservatives will denigrate any use of tax money as wasteful and destructive. It is an old and tired trope proffered by people who refuse to draw a conclusion based on something other than their own narrow self interest. And our country is worse for them. From The Detroit News: detnews.com/article/20110325/OPIN....ame-for-Detroit’s-steady-slide#ixzz1HoAdjamDWhat ever message you are trying to get across would be much more effective had you been correct it what was your opening gambit. Sure, the decline of Detroit was connected to the decline of the auto industry in that city. The combination of short sightedness on the part of the Auto Industry leadership and the union leadership were also huge factors. You can not ignore the part played by liberal policy in that decline. |
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Post by inevitec on Mar 27, 2011 10:22:31 GMT -8
I was conveying a more complex message to the writer than a suggestion to correct a typo. He seems pretty condescending to me. I was merely,very subtly, suggesting that he, as all conservatives, might be imperfect too. And, heck, I have even received PMs for not highlighting text to someone's satisfaction. As for the article. Such statements as "Handouts are to blame" and "Detroit has been destroyed by a half-century-long string of liberal programs and policies beginning with the "Great Society" are simple minded, written by people with an ideology to support, and fail to take into account that the changes to nuclear families suggested by the author have also occurred outside the African American Community. In other words, the article is simple minded bu$$ Sh*t. The forces causing Detroit's decline have more to do with the fact that others began to build automobiles that were more dependable than American cars than it does with any handout. But the issue is complex and requires more careful analysis than the one provided by the drone writing the piece. Once again we go back to the real theme. A "handout", the Great Society, Medicare etc. require that some one pay taxes. Conservatives do not want to pay taxes. Therefore, conservatives will denigrate any use of tax money as wasteful and destructive. It is an old and tired trope proffered by people who refuse to draw a conclusion based on something other than their own narrow self interest. And our country is worse for them. From The Detroit News: detnews.com/article/20110325/OPIN....ame-for-Detroit’s-steady-slide#ixzz1HoAdjamDWhat ever message you are trying to get across would be much more effective had you been correct it what was your opening gambit. Sure, the decline of Detroit was connected to the decline of the auto industry in that city. The combination of short sightedness on the part of the Auto Industry leadership and the union leadership were also huge factors. You can not ignore the part played by liberal policy in that decline. As is inevitable, I disagree. |
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Post by aztecwin on Mar 27, 2011 15:57:40 GMT -8
What ever message you are trying to get across would be much more effective had you been correct it what was your opening gambit. Sure, the decline of Detroit was connected to the decline of the auto industry in that city. The combination of short sightedness on the part of the Auto Industry leadership and the union leadership were also huge factors. You can not ignore the part played by liberal policy in that decline. As is inevitable, I disagree. On which point do you disagree? Please expand your thoughts. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Mar 27, 2011 21:29:00 GMT -8
Why has Detroit decline so badly? Is that declined so badly? Exactly! The case of the missing "d" has been solved.  AzWm |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Mar 27, 2011 21:40:53 GMT -8
Since we have many new members, I will again declare my nearly 4 decade long registration as a Libertarian voter. In only a couple of cases have I voted for other than Libertarian candidates.
As for Detroit, I recognize that the decline of the U.S. auto industry has been the biggest problem for the city and the state of Michigan. I can't quite go along with Joe on the IQ issue. Even people with below average IQs can and generally do work productively. The whole upper Middle West has been so badly hit with the economic tidal waves of the last three decades that the area was bound to take a huge hit.
We can't ignore collectivist government policies, however. What those on the Left will never understand is that the government does best when it provides services that are essential and not capable of being provided by the private sector. Police, fire protection, court systems, roads and highways, etc., are all legitimate functions of government. The day government came under the control of people who thought they could go far beyond those functions without mucking everything up was the day our national decline began. It wasn't obvious at first, of course.
If you want to see what a venal, meddlesome government can do to a country, just check out the history of Argentina. There, as here, the essential problem is as follows: national resources start to be allocated based on political rather than sound business reasoning.
AzWm
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Mar 28, 2011 10:51:45 GMT -8
Since we have many new members, I will again declare my nearly 4 decade long registration as a Libertarian voter. In only a couple of cases have I voted for other than Libertarian candidates. As for Detroit, I recognize that the decline of the U.S. auto industry has been the biggest problem for the city and the state of Michigan. I can't quite go along with Joe on the IQ issue. Even people with below average IQs can and generally do work productively. The whole upper Middle West has been so badly hit with the economic tidal waves of the last three decades that the area was bound to take a huge hit. We can't ignore collectivist government policies, however. What those on the Left will never understand is that the government does best when it provides services that are essential and not capable of being provided by the private sector. Police, fire protection, court systems, roads and highways, etc., are all legitimate functions of government. The day government came under the control of people who thought they could go far beyond those functions without mucking everything up was the day our national decline began. It wasn't obvious at first, of course. If you want to see what a venal, meddlesome government can do to a country, just check out the history of Argentina. There, as here, the essential prolem is as follows: national resources start to be allocated based on political rather than sound business reasoning. AzWm Enough with the Randian terminology. A lot of the decline is due to white flight back in the '60s. That led to an eroded tax base as people and businesses headed for the burbs. If the author was correct in his assessment (and let's face it, he cites Glenn Beck) the same should hold true for every city since the Great Society programs weren't just in Detroit. I think one also has to consider how many auto companies either went out of business or were bought out in the '50s. That led to a lot more competition for jobs and a lot of people who had to move elsewhere to find work. =Bob |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Mar 28, 2011 20:35:36 GMT -8
Since we have many new members, I will again declare my nearly 4 decade long registration as a Libertarian voter. In only a couple of cases have I voted for other than Libertarian candidates. As for Detroit, I recognize that the decline of the U.S. auto industry has been the biggest problem for the city and the state of Michigan. I can't quite go along with Joe on the IQ issue. Even people with below average IQs can and generally do work productively. The whole upper Middle West has been so badly hit with the economic tidal waves of the last three decades that the area was bound to take a huge hit. We can't ignore collectivist government policies, however. What those on the Left will never understand is that the government does best when it provides services that are essential and not capable of being provided by the private sector. Police, fire protection, court systems, roads and highways, etc., are all legitimate functions of government. The day government came under the control of people who thought they could go far beyond those functions without mucking everything up was the day our national decline began. It wasn't obvious at first, of course. If you want to see what a venal, meddlesome government can do to a country, just check out the history of Argentina. There, as here, the essential problem is as follows: national resources start to be allocated based on political rather than sound business reasoning. AzWm Enough with the Randian terminology. A lot of the decline is due to white flight back in the '60s. That led to an eroded tax base as people and businesses headed for the burbs. If the author was correct in his assessment (and let's face it, he cites Glenn Beck) the same should hold true for every city since the Great Society programs weren't just in Detroit. I think one also has to consider how many auto companies either went out of business or were bought out in the '50s. That led to a lot more competition for jobs and a lot of people who had to move elsewhere to find work. =Bob There have indeed been many problems causing the decline of the industries of the upper Middle West. Unwise policies practiced by the governments of many cities and states in that region explain at least a portion of what went wrong. By the way, I think you will find that most of the troubled big cities around the country have been governed by Democrats for generations. That cannot be a total coincidence. AzWm |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Mar 28, 2011 20:48:23 GMT -8
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Post by JOCAZTEC on Mar 29, 2011 6:21:07 GMT -8
Why has Detroit decline so badly? Is that declined so badly? Yeah, decline the verbs and congregate around the nuns. Right? My englesh is not so very bad, no? HAM |
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Post by aztecwin on Mar 29, 2011 11:13:12 GMT -8
This article is just piling on the obvious. The combination of liberal policy and union graft and greed result in ruins. |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Mar 29, 2011 16:50:27 GMT -8
Enough with the Randian terminology. A lot of the decline is due to white flight back in the '60s. That led to an eroded tax base as people and businesses headed for the burbs. If the author was correct in his assessment (and let's face it, he cites Glenn Beck) the same should hold true for every city since the Great Society programs weren't just in Detroit. I think one also has to consider how many auto companies either went out of business or were bought out in the '50s. That led to a lot more competition for jobs and a lot of people who had to move elsewhere to find work. =Bob There have indeed been many problems causing the decline of the industries of the upper Middle West. Unwise policies practiced by the governments of many cities and states in that region explain at least a portion of what went wrong. By the way, I think you will find that most of the troubled big cities around the country have been governed by Democrats for generations. That cannot be a total coincidence. AzWm Okay, show me the correlation between city government being run by Democrats and the decline of those cities. Clearly you can't because all you're offering are syllogistic arguments based upon your particular brand of political ideology. Every claim you make above is offered with no substantiation at all. Please explain to me why Unwise policies practiced by the governments of many cities and states in that region explain at least a portion of what went wrong.. Sorry Will, but you're offering nothing but opinion that has no analysis to back it up. =Bob |
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