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Post by ervaztec on Feb 10, 2011 7:42:25 GMT -8
Look, before this thread BYU fans would come on this board at will and smugly lecture us us how traumatic a mission is for their players. We heard stories about 300lb lineman coming back 195lbs, Malaria, Dysentery, and otherwise broken down injury prone bodies.
But after a quick check it is clear that is not even close to being the case. See the example below of Romney Fuga who goes to Madagascar and comes back more ready to play D1 football than when he left.
"SOPHOMORE - (2009): Earned letterman honors as a sophomore ... saw action in all 13 games, starting seven ... Academic All-MWC ... totaled 40 tackles on the season, including 16 solo ... had three tackles for loss, including his first career sack against CSU ... forced a fumble in the CSU game.
Mission to Madagascar (2007-2008)
FRESHMAN - (2006): Earned Academic All-Mountain West Conference honors as a freshman ... played in all 13 games for the Cougars ... earned letterman honors as a true freshman ... credited with nine tackles on the season, including four solo and five assisted tackles ... totaled two tackles for a loss ... a significant contributor on a defensive unit that gave up only 14.7 points per game, ranking 10th nationally..."
This is typical of the 23 out of 31 current jr & sr who came back from missions and contributed immediately. It is an admittedly small sample and it doesn't take into account players who never played after their mission. So if you need to lecture us on something else fine. But let's first acknowledge what this thread debunked and celebrate that we won't have to hear this specific part of your propaganda again.
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Post by 83aztec on Feb 10, 2011 7:54:29 GMT -8
Who cares. Not like we have to play them again plus there nothing we can do about it.
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Post by longtimesdsufan on Feb 10, 2011 7:56:21 GMT -8
Look at the locations some go while on their Mission,while you are on a mission does not mean you are not allowed to play in pick up basketball games, or forced to stay away from a weight room. gym , playing field........ Plus the advantage both physically and maturity level- Some of the linemen on the football team- While some us fans may be bias- seems there is agreement from Rocky and Brady- that there is no need to put them on the future schedule- Hope Fisher does not feel the need to add them - unless he is in dire straights and then only at home - NEVER or even longer at their gym Missionaries can play pickup basketball games, on the 1/2 day a week they have to fit all other personal responsibilities into; such as shopping for the week, doing their laundry for the week, write their letters; clean up their apartments...and what ever else they couldn't do during the 'work' week which starts about 8:00 AM and goes until around 9:00 PM, depending on the mission. Basketball was my gig before I went out. I thought for sure I'd get plenty of chances to play pick up games. In the 22 months I was in Sweden I think I played less than 10 times. Not only did I have to do my stuff on that 1/2 day but if my working companion had extra stuff that had to be done I had to go along with him; I really wish missions were the cake walk that people who have no clue whatsoever seem to think they are. You just keep on blaming the old players, or the replay booth or the grass or whatever else you'll come up with because as long as you're satisfied that you can't win because of one of those reasons we'll just keep beating you the majority of games. Of course that is if you even dare play us; which apparently you don't but it sits a lot better in the gut saying we won't play them any more because they cheat by having mature men play for them than say we won't play them any more because they've beaten the crap out of us a huge majority of the times we've played. If one of those statements help you sleep better at nights than the other I say take it, make it your own and run with it. This kind of attitude is why we should never play BYU again. No remorse for BYU Gate, and no acceptance of facts. Never argue religion with a true believer applies to BYU blue shirting. We no longer have to put up with this crap. GO AWAY!
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Post by AzTX on Feb 10, 2011 8:01:04 GMT -8
We should push a measure through the university that declares to properly honor the heritage and namesake of the Aztec culture, all athletes will have the opportunity to go through a 2-year "warrior" sabbatical to learn the ancient training techniques and strategies of the Aztec warrior. These studies will include participating in games similar to ancient times, but with a modern twist. For instance, a 2 year study for basketball players will focus on ancient meso-american ball games like this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_ballgameOf course, without proper facilities, I suppose they can just use the ARC for those 2 years.
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Post by Borg on Feb 10, 2011 8:22:31 GMT -8
Just thinking out loud here....
Could it not be that this issue is not worth arguing? It may be possible that both positions/statements are correct? ...that a broad sweeping paint brush does not capture the whole story for each and every person?
Some people/athletes might benefit from a mission...a lineman getting sent to Texas to live off brisket and biscuits and gravy for 2 years. Benefit!
A wide receiver getting sent to Bolivia to live off scraps, beans and rice. Not a benefit!
Maturity? Benefit!
Not practicing or lifting? Not a benefit!
..etc. etc.
Just saying that both positions are valid. Both have truth behind them. One won't convince the other because there is no absolutes in the question. The correct answer is: "it depends".
Now,....come here everyone. Group hug ya big balooga's. Now, run along and play.
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Post by longtimebooster on Feb 10, 2011 8:22:55 GMT -8
It turned out the BYU employees in the booth really had nothing to do with the fumble call (and that non call didn't determine the game either way) ... I thought I was the one currently losing the wager to The Borg, not you. But if you're OK with jumping on the grenade for me, have at it.
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Post by Borg on Feb 10, 2011 8:23:59 GMT -8
It turned out the BYU employees in the booth really had nothing to do with the fumble call (and that non call didn't determine the game either way) ... I thought I was the one currently losing the wager to The Borg, not you. But if you're OK with jumping on the grenade for me, have at it. Nice!
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Post by PQ Aztec on Feb 10, 2011 8:54:52 GMT -8
Just thinking out loud here.... Could it not be that this issue is not worth arguing? It may be possible that both positions/statements are correct? ...that a broad sweeping paint brush does not capture the whole story for each and every person? Some people/athletes might benefit from a mission...a lineman getting sent to Texas to live off brisket and biscuits and gravy for 2 years. Benefit! A wide receiver getting sent to Bolivia to live off scraps, beans and rice. Not a benefit! Maturity? Benefit! Not practicing or lifting? Not a benefit! ..etc. etc. Just saying that both positions are valid. Both have truth behind them. One won't convince the other because there is no absolutes in the question. The correct answer is: "it depends". Now,....come here everyone. Group hug ya big balooga's. Now, run along and play. There is a big reason why Hugh is always welcome on this board. His ability to see the entire argument and separate himself from blind devotion is always a breath of fresh air. Often too many BYU/ SDSU fans only want to see things as black or white and just want to argue without reason. While I believe the Mission is more often then not an advantage for BYU, it isn't the only reason they have had success.
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Post by azson on Feb 10, 2011 9:13:00 GMT -8
It turned out the BYU employees in the booth really had nothing to do with the fumble call (and that non call didn't determine the game either way) +100
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Post by azson on Feb 10, 2011 9:29:17 GMT -8
Look at the locations some go while on their Mission,while you are on a mission does not mean you are not allowed to play in pick up basketball games, or forced to stay away from a weight room. gym , playing field........ Plus the advantage both physically and maturity level- Some of the linemen on the football team- While some us fans may be bias- seems there is agreement from Rocky and Brady- that there is no need to put them on the future schedule- Hope Fisher does not feel the need to add them - unless he is in dire straights and then only at home - NEVER or even longer at their gym Missionaries can play pickup basketball games, on the 1/2 day a week they have to fit all other personal responsibilities into; such as shopping for the week, doing their laundry for the week, write their letters; clean up their apartments...and what ever else they couldn't do during the 'work' week which starts about 8:00 AM and goes until around 9:00 PM, depending on the mission. Basketball was my gig before I went out. I thought for sure I'd get plenty of chances to play pick up games. In the 22 months I was in Sweden I think I played less than 10 times. Not only did I have to do my stuff on that 1/2 day but if my working companion had extra stuff that had to be done I had to go along with him; I really wish missions were the cake walk that people who have no clue whatsoever seem to think they are. You just keep on blaming the old players, or the replay booth or the grass or whatever else you'll come up with because as long as you're satisfied that you can't win because of one of those reasons we'll just keep beating you the majority of games. Of course that is if you even dare play us; which apparently you don't but it sits a lot better in the gut saying we won't play them any more because they cheat by having mature men play for them than say we won't play them any more because they've beaten the crap out of us a huge majority of the times we've played. If one of those statements help you sleep better at nights than the other I say take it, make it your own and run with it. "even dare play us"??? whatever that means. And yes, we'll keep blaming coug, just like you keep trolling. Remind us again, why are you here?
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Post by sdfootballfan on Feb 10, 2011 10:01:43 GMT -8
Shouldn't this be off topic? Who cares what BYU is doing, lets worry about our program then worry about BYU on the 26th.
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Feb 10, 2011 10:30:46 GMT -8
Dick Harmon = Richard Cranium!
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Post by ervaztec on Feb 10, 2011 10:50:57 GMT -8
Just thinking out loud here.... Could it not be that this issue is not worth arguing? It may be possible that both positions/statements are correct? ...that a broad sweeping paint brush does not capture the whole story for each and every person? Some people/athletes might benefit from a mission...a lineman getting sent to Texas to live off brisket and biscuits and gravy for 2 years. Benefit! A wide receiver getting sent to Bolivia to live off scraps, beans and rice. Not a benefit! Maturity? Benefit! Not practicing or lifting? Not a benefit! ..etc. etc. Just saying that both positions are valid. Both have truth behind them. One won't convince the other because there is no absolutes in the question. The correct answer is: "it depends". Now,....come here everyone. Group hug ya big balooga's. Now, run along and play. Hugh, Man! you have the unenviable job of coming on here after your brother's smug condescending attacks are totally refuted with fact and politely call it a draw.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2011 11:15:45 GMT -8
First I don’t think you have a clue what you are talking about or you are drunk on the blue kool-aid. Young athletes (18-20 years old) have not grown into their bodies. My son a sophomore in HS had a 90 mph fastball, by the time he became a senior in HS is fastball was in the mid 80’s. But his body was changing from a 6’ 180 pound sophomore to a 6’6” 230 pound senior. The body is growing and adjusting to all the changing parts. When you get 22-24 years old the body has settled in a significant advantage for the borg nation. Of course most kids are still growing through high school and into their late teens, which is why most kids redshirt as freshmen. But don't compare an 18 year old to a 24 year old. I believe most missions are 2 years max, so compare a 21 year old to a 23 year old (is that really that much of an advantage?) Maybe it still is ... but didn't we have a few youth challenged players ourselves this year that were 24-25 years old? The hell they do not work out. Listen buddy my family is full of LDS and more than few have played football. At least nine distant cousins and not so distant one , have played at BYU,Hawaii Utah and Utah State.. In almost all cases their missions were in places that access to Gyms and of course everyone has access to running.That's two years of working out without much possibility of injury. They all came back bigger stronger and in most a cases as fast. For over a decade BYU has had the lowest SAT's in the nation for football players. At the same time we find out they have correspondence courses some of these Cabesa's de Colada can use to stay eligible. BYU and USC are in a class by itself the Class of No Class.
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Post by pokinsky on Feb 10, 2011 12:05:38 GMT -8
Of course most kids are still growing through high school and into their late teens, which is why most kids redshirt as freshmen. But don't compare an 18 year old to a 24 year old. I believe most missions are 2 years max, so compare a 21 year old to a 23 year old (is that really that much of an advantage?) Maybe it still is ... but didn't we have a few youth challenged players ourselves this year that were 24-25 years old? The hell they do not work out. Listen buddy my family is full of LDS and more than few have played football. At least nine distant cousins and not so distant one , have played at BYU,Hawaii Utah and Utah State.. In almost all cases their missions were in places that access to Gyms and of course everyone has access to running.That's two years of working out without much possibility of injury. They all came back bigger stronger and in most a cases as fast. For over a decade BYU has had the lowest SAT's in the nation for football players. At the same time we find out they have correspondence courses some of these Cabesa's de Colada can use to stay eligible. BYU and USC are in a class by itself the Class of No Class. I'm not saying there isn't an advantage ... I just think the benefits are being completely overestimated. Attached is a great article that summarizes this issue regarding a local SD QB recruit (Beau Reilly) who had SDSU, BYU on his list and ended up going to CSU. It even mentions that kids do grow physically during their missions. My point is that kids also grow physically (probably even more) during their redshirt freshmen year while on campus working out with the trainers, dietitians and teammates. And if this really is such an amazing benefit ... then why don't we do it ourselves? This kid and others wanted to come here, but we didn't want them because, we don't want kids who go on missions. "Some schools told me they couldn't really trust me coming off a mission and not having played in two years." "From the college coaches' perspective, they're recruiting an athlete now that they realize won't join the program for a few years -- which can make the delicate balance between team needs and available scholarships tricky to pull off." Reilly wants to go on a mission to grow emotionally and spiritually, but it will offer the side benefit of allowing him to grow physically as well. The Reillys are late bloomers, Russ says, and Beau should return in two years better equipped to handle the rigors of college football. Drew Reilly weighs 190 pounds; he was about 175 when he left for his mission. Trevor Reilly's growth was even more pronounced, as the 6-foot-5 defensive end swelled from 185 to a strapping 220."I got to work out a half-hour a day, and I put on a good 15 pounds," Drew Reilly said. "But I definitely feel like I need to catch up. Mentally, I feel like I'm three years behind." www.nctimes.com/sports/high-school/nct/football/article_e21e55a0-841a-53fc-9d16-e9a52c874074.html
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Post by SD Johnny on Feb 10, 2011 12:27:32 GMT -8
Who cares?...we are never playing theses guys ever again so it doesn't matter anymore.
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Post by ervaztec on Feb 10, 2011 12:32:49 GMT -8
I'm not saying there isn't an advantage ... I just think the benefits are being completely overestimated. Where in my original post are the benifits overstated? Attached is a great article that summarizes this issue regarding a local SD QB recruit (Beau Reilly) who had SDSU, BYU on his list and ended up going to CSU. It even mentions that kids do grow physically during their missions. My point is that kids also grow physically (probably even more) during their redshirt freshmen year while on campus working out with the trainers, dietitians and teammates. A player who red shirts is a 19-20 yr RS Frosh. A Blue shirt also read shirts and is a 21-22 yr old RS Frosh.Your talking about different fruitAnd if this really is such an amazing benefit ... then why don't we do it ourselves? This kid and others wanted to come here, but we didn't want them because, we don't want kids who go on missions. First of all you don't know that to be the reason. We have another kid coming here who plans to go on a mission. also, choosing BYU and choosing a mission are congruent choices. secular schools and Missions not so much. "Some schools told me they couldn't really trust me coming off a mission and not having played in two years." Reilly wants to go on a mission to grow emotionally and spiritually, but it will offer the side benefit of allowing him to grow physically as well. The Reillys are late bloomers, Russ says, and Beau should return in two years better equipped to handle the rigors of college football. Drew Reilly weighs 190 pounds; he was about 175 when he left for his mission. Trevor Reilly's growth was even more pronounced, as the 6-foot-5 defensive end swelled from 185 to a strapping 220."I got to work out a half-hour a day, and I put on a good 15 pounds," Drew Reilly said. "But I definitely feel like I need to catch up. Mentally, I feel like I'm three years behind." This confirms my pointOn a side note I went to school with Russ Reilly. He's a good guy and a great athlete. I'll bet his kid can play. Especially after he gets home from his mission with an extra 30lbs on him.
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Post by ervaztec on Feb 10, 2011 12:37:13 GMT -8
Who cares?...we are never playing theses guys ever again so it doesn't matter anymore. We play them one or two more times this year, possible in the Poinsettia Bowl next year and there was an article about our football coach commenting on them the other day.
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Post by dlangford9 on Feb 10, 2011 16:00:57 GMT -8
If the coaches think it's an advantage, who are we (the fans) to think we know better? Especially since it's being said by rational coaches like Hoke and Long. It would be different if it were coming from a traditional "freak-out" coach like the guy at UA. That guy should have had 13 heart attacks last season!!!
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Post by pokinsky on Feb 10, 2011 16:51:18 GMT -8
BYU has such an arrogance about them, it's amazing ... wow. Warning!! For those people who are easily upset and have a terrible dislike for BYU .. please don't read the attached article from today's salt lake city sports page that is aimed directly at the SDSU football program .. or you may have a brain aneurysm. Headline: "Worn-out excuse given to explain BYU success"
Quick summary: "SDSU, the way is now clear for a football championship, just get by young and immature Boise State to become king of the castle. Let the era of excuses in the MWC come to a torturous and welcome end.
Why don't they do it? They can't take the risk.
In my opinion, this "mature" issue that surfaces so readily smacks more of an excuse for failure of football programs that regularly compete against BYU. It is an excuse to their bosses, their fans and the media. In the heat of a third-quarter gap-control battle in the trenches, it gives a SDSU player an excuse: "Coach said he's older, I'm at a disadvantage so if I get beat, it's understandable."
It's a tune that's become old and sour.
To accept this premise is to swallow that losing to BYU can't be coaching failure, recruiting failure, strategy failure, facility failure and conditioning failure — it has to be because BYU has athletes an average of 1.4 years older. Give me a break." www.deseretnews.com/article/700108621/Worn-out-excuse-given-to-explain-BYU-success.html?pg=3
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