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Post by johneaztec on Jul 6, 2023 16:53:36 GMT -8
Grisham sucks. Period. He's a huge liability. He doesn't score, and he doesn't drive in runs. He's a waste of a roster space. We need someone who can score more and drive in more runs. How is him not scoring more runs his fault? Is he supposed to drive himself in? Getting on base more, then stealing a bag. That would give him more opportunities, especially with Tatis right behind him. A concept I wish he could do more often.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Jul 6, 2023 16:55:53 GMT -8
Grisham sucks. Period. He's a huge liability. He doesn't score, and he doesn't drive in runs. He's a waste of a roster space. We need someone who can score more and drive in more runs. How is him not scoring more runs his fault? Is he supposed to drive himself in? You have to get on base to score. And when he hits behind someone who does get on base, he strikes out more than anything. He's an automatic out with guys on base.
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Post by aardvark on Jul 6, 2023 17:01:22 GMT -8
Cronenworth's last 5 games, he is 6/15 with 3 doubles, 1 HR, and 7 RBI. With 2 walks and 2 K's. This is the Cronenworth we need--line drives in the gaps, drive in runs. Keep the line moving. Personally, I would rather have a Cronenworth who has at least twice as many doubles/triples than HR's. I know it's been discussed previously, but he doesn't need to swing for the fences (nor does the rest of the team). The home runs will come, as there is already enough power in this lineup. But it seems the organization has no one who can get through to Cronenworth, or many of these guys. Just put the damn ball in play. OK, rant over. He's the exact type of guy who should be a gap-to-gap hitter and not be trying to launch balls into the fourth row. Or fourth deck.
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 6, 2023 17:03:06 GMT -8
How is him not scoring more runs his fault? Is he supposed to drive himself in? Getting on base more, then stealing a bag. That would give him more opportunities, especially with Tatis right behind him. A concept I wish he could do more often. You can keep repeating the same things. That doesn't make them accurate or true. Do I wish he had an OBP that lined up with his expected stats? Sure. That's not the same thing, though. He's 8-11 in stolen base attempts. Steals require attempts, from a team that doesn't run that much to begin with. It's not his choice to not run the bases. I, too, wish people would grasp concepts.
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 6, 2023 17:07:56 GMT -8
How is him not scoring more runs his fault? Is he supposed to drive himself in? You have to get on base to score. And when he hits behind someone who does get on base, he strikes out more than anything. He's an automatic out with guys on base. That's a fair argument, but it's also one you could make for virtually everyone on the roster given that they are league worst with men in scoring position.
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 6, 2023 17:08:38 GMT -8
Getting on base more, then stealing a bag. That would give him more opportunities, especially with Tatis right behind him. A concept I wish he could do more often. You can keep repeating the same things. That doesn't make them accurate or true. Do I wish he had an OBP that lined up with his expected stats? Sure. That's not the same thing, though. He's 8-11 in stolen base attempts. Steals require attempts, from a team that doesn't run that much to begin with. It's not his choice to not run the bases. I, too, wish people would grasp concepts. He needs to get on base more often to have more opportunities to steal, and to have more diverse situations that call for a steal attempt. It's the same for you. The more you repeat that Grisham is just fine at the plate, does not make it true. I wish people, or more accurately you, since you're absolutely in this minority mind set, would grasp concepts.
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 6, 2023 17:13:42 GMT -8
You have to get on base to score. And when he hits behind someone who does get on base, he strikes out more than anything. He's an automatic out with guys on base. That's a fair argument, but it's also one you could make for virtually everyone on the roster given that they are league worst with men in scoring position. Funny. You say it's a fair argument with him, but not when I say it. We differ in ALL departments, so I get it, but it's glaring what you do when at least he sides with you in other avenues of the world. Kinda like what you do with your favorite players. You cut them slack, and give them excuses. We're used to it. It exposes you for being a contrarian, for just the sake of being a contrarian with someone you have absolutely zero in common with, except fans of the same teams. You'd be more believable if you wouldn't always make so many excuses, or find random stats to justify players the you like, and vice versa for players you're not fond of.
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 6, 2023 17:15:02 GMT -8
How is him not scoring more runs his fault? Is he supposed to drive himself in? You have to get on base to score. And when he hits behind someone who does get on base, he strikes out more than anything. He's an automatic out with guys on base. He's hitting around 188 with men on base, but he's just fine. Lol.
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Post by junior on Jul 6, 2023 18:06:05 GMT -8
He'll come around - just wait and you'll see!
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 6, 2023 18:38:55 GMT -8
You can keep repeating the same things. That doesn't make them accurate or true. Do I wish he had an OBP that lined up with his expected stats? Sure. That's not the same thing, though. He's 8-11 in stolen base attempts. Steals require attempts, from a team that doesn't run that much to begin with. It's not his choice to not run the bases. I, too, wish people would grasp concepts. He needs to get on base more often to have more opportunities to steal, and to have more diverse situations that call for a steal attempt. It's the same for you. The more you repeat that Grisham is just fine at the plate, does not make it true. I wish people, or more accurately you, since you're absolutely in this minority mind set, would grasp concepts. The problem, as always, is that the numbers back my stance and do not back your hypothetical wishes. It's not a mindset, it's the statistical reality. Square with that, or don't. Pretty clear.
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 6, 2023 18:42:21 GMT -8
That's a fair argument, but it's also one you could make for virtually everyone on the roster given that they are league worst with men in scoring position. Funny. You say it's a fair argument with him, but not when I say it. We differ in ALL departments, so I get it, but it's glaring what you do when at least he sides with you in other avenues of the world. Kinda like what you do with your favorite players. You cut them slack, and give them excuses. We're used to it. It exposes you for being a contrarian, for just the sake of being a contrarian with someone you have absolutely zero in common with, except fans of the same teams. You'd be more believable if you wouldn't always make so many excuses, or find random stats to justify players the you like, and vice versa for players you're not fond of. Because he's right. All you've said is "he strikes out too much and doesn't put the ball in play enough." If every situation was created equally? Sure. Again, it applies to largely the entire roster, not just one player. They are finally back over .200 with runners in scoring position. I'm of the opinion, after talking to people I know and trust, that a lot of that is situational philosophy and mentality-based. I don't care about your Internet toughness, save your fingers. You seem to mistake "excuses" for basic statistical comprehension. Nobody here is making excuses. I deal in facts, not "I wish he did _______." The straws > Your grasp.
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 6, 2023 19:12:51 GMT -8
Funny. You say it's a fair argument with him, but not when I say it. We differ in ALL departments, so I get it, but it's glaring what you do when at least he sides with you in other avenues of the world. Kinda like what you do with your favorite players. You cut them slack, and give them excuses. We're used to it. It exposes you for being a contrarian, for just the sake of being a contrarian with someone you have absolutely zero in common with, except fans of the same teams. You'd be more believable if you wouldn't always make so many excuses, or find random stats to justify players the you like, and vice versa for players you're not fond of. Because he's right. All you've said is "he strikes out too much and doesn't put the ball in play enough." If every situation was created equally? Sure. Again, it applies to largely the entire roster, not just one player. They are finally back over .200 with runners in scoring position. I'm of the opinion, after talking to people I know and trust, that a lot of that is situational philosophy and mentality-based. I don't care about your Internet toughness, save your fingers. You seem to mistake "excuses" for basic statistical comprehension. Nobody here is making excuses. I deal in facts, not "I wish he did _______." The straws > Your grasp. I internet toughness? Don't be soft. Besides, you know all about internet toughness, which is for all to see on the political board from you, so save it. Unbelievable, or actually believable. I answered your post, right before Erik did, saying he needs to get on base more, as Erik did, and then steal a bag. That's how he'll have an opportunity to score more runs. "I wish he did?" No, I know he can't unless there's some miraculous turnaround which i would be ecstatic to see. Again, your blinders are on, only when you want them on. I get your bias towards me though, and I'm all good with it. Used to it by now. Just wanted to point out your ways.
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 6, 2023 19:29:07 GMT -8
Because he's right. All you've said is "he strikes out too much and doesn't put the ball in play enough." If every situation was created equally? Sure. Again, it applies to largely the entire roster, not just one player. They are finally back over .200 with runners in scoring position. I'm of the opinion, after talking to people I know and trust, that a lot of that is situational philosophy and mentality-based. I don't care about your Internet toughness, save your fingers. You seem to mistake "excuses" for basic statistical comprehension. Nobody here is making excuses. I deal in facts, not "I wish he did _______." The straws > Your grasp. I internet toughness? Don't be soft. Besides, you know all about internet toughness, which is for all to see on the political board from you, so save it. Unbelievable, or actually believable. I answered your post, right before Erik did, saying he needs to get on base more, as Erik did, and then steal a bag. That's how he'll have an opportunity to score more runs. "I wish he did?" No, I know he can't unless there's some miraculous turnaround which i would be ecstatic to see. Again, your blinders are on, only when you want them on. I get your bias towards me though, and I'm all good with it. Used to it by now. Just wanted to point out your ways. And I was specifically referring to his slash line with runners in scoring position, not his ability to get on base. His ability to get on base has variables in play that are being largely ignored. I don't have blinders, you're talking past me and circling to different arbitrary points, a la goalpost shifting. But it's simple facts: He's a league average hitter. He's a plus defensive center fielder. He's cheap and controllable. He's misused by the Padres consistently. He's in no way, shape or form a massive liability at the plate or anywhere else. Everyone is asking the wrong question, except me. The problem seems to be the general expectations that can't be quantified or contextualized (or the refusal to do so?)
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Jul 6, 2023 19:36:06 GMT -8
He's not a league average hitter. You have to massage your advanced analytical stats to even put him anywhere near the average hitter. Bottom line? He doesn't score, and he doesn't drive in runs. He's pathetic at the plate.
He brings NOTHING to the table worth a damn offensively. And his defense isn't absurdly outstanding to warrant having such an offensive liability on the roster.
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 6, 2023 20:07:06 GMT -8
He's not a league average hitter. You have to massage your advanced analytical stats to even put him anywhere near the average hitter. Bottom line? He doesn't score, and he doesn't drive in runs. He's pathetic at the plate. He brings NOTHING to the table worth a damn offensively. And his defense isn't absurdly outstanding to warrant having such an offensive liability on the roster. Two days ago, he was a 99 wRC+ hitter. 100 is league average. He's now at 96. So we can go with slightly below, for the sake of simplicity, which I think is fine considering how long this argument has transpired for. wRC+ is the easiest and most utilized statistic to account for ballpark adjustments. Anything else is noise, basically, because you have to adjust for environment. Period. It's why the Rockies excel at hitting at home and are terrible on the road, year after year. Park factors. They matter. Again, him scoring runs is a byproduct of *his team* not scoring runs. Look at every single split statistic with men on base for the entire roster. It's still ugly, just not quite as ugly as two or three weeks ago. Both things you mention are literally in the formula for wRC+....so the argument fades quickly when you take that into account. Weighted runs created. Definition: Runs Created estimates a player's offensive contribution in terms of total runs. It combines a player's ability to get on base with his ability to hit for extra bases. Then it divides those two by the player's total opportunities. So I guess he brings something to the plate.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Jul 6, 2023 20:11:25 GMT -8
He's not a league average hitter. You have to massage your advanced analytical stats to even put him anywhere near the average hitter. Bottom line? He doesn't score, and he doesn't drive in runs. He's pathetic at the plate. He brings NOTHING to the table worth a damn offensively. And his defense isn't absurdly outstanding to warrant having such an offensive liability on the roster. Two days ago, he was a 99 wRC+ hitter. 100 is league average. He's now at 96. So we can go with slightly below, for the sake of simplicity, which I think is fine considering how long this argument has transpired for. wRC+ is the easiest and most utilized statistic to account for ballpark adjustments. Anything else is noise, basically, because you have to adjust for environment. Period. It's why the Rockies excel at hitting at home and are terrible on the road, year after year. Park factors. They matter. Again, him scoring runs is a byproduct of *his team* not scoring runs. Look at every single split statistic with men on base for the entire roster. It's still ugly, just not quite as ugly as two or three weeks ago. Both things you mention are literally in the formula for wRC+....so the argument fades quickly when you take that into account. Weighted runs created. Definition: Runs Created estimates a player's offensive contribution in terms of total runs. It combines a player's ability to get on base with his ability to hit for extra bases. Then it divides those two by the player's total opportunities. So I guess he brings something to the plate. Nothing of value.
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 6, 2023 20:23:20 GMT -8
Two days ago, he was a 99 wRC+ hitter. 100 is league average. He's now at 96. So we can go with slightly below, for the sake of simplicity, which I think is fine considering how long this argument has transpired for. wRC+ is the easiest and most utilized statistic to account for ballpark adjustments. Anything else is noise, basically, because you have to adjust for environment. Period. It's why the Rockies excel at hitting at home and are terrible on the road, year after year. Park factors. They matter. Again, him scoring runs is a byproduct of *his team* not scoring runs. Look at every single split statistic with men on base for the entire roster. It's still ugly, just not quite as ugly as two or three weeks ago. Both things you mention are literally in the formula for wRC+....so the argument fades quickly when you take that into account. Weighted runs created. Definition: Runs Created estimates a player's offensive contribution in terms of total runs. It combines a player's ability to get on base with his ability to hit for extra bases. Then it divides those two by the player's total opportunities. So I guess he brings something to the plate. Nothing of value. Then I guess throw out anyone named Tatis, Soto, Machado, Bogaerts or Kim? Losing argument. Walks are valuable, right? Double digit walk rate. Hitting the ball hard is valuable, right? Top 15 in barrel percentage. This is such a silly, fallacious critique. If your level of understanding ends at "He doesn't score or drive in runs" (which is a results-oriented conclusion and definitely not the only two things that matter offensively?) then maybe we should just stop because *process* matters just as much.
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 6, 2023 20:49:28 GMT -8
He's not a league average hitter. You have to massage your advanced analytical stats to even put him anywhere near the average hitter. Bottom line? He doesn't score, and he doesn't drive in runs. He's pathetic at the plate. He brings NOTHING to the table worth a damn offensively. And his defense isn't absurdly outstanding to warrant having such an offensive liability on the roster. Two days ago, he was a 99 wRC+ hitter. 100 is league average. He's now at 96. So we can go with slightly below, for the sake of simplicity, which I think is fine considering how long this argument has transpired for. wRC+ is the easiest and most utilized statistic to account for ballpark adjustments. Anything else is noise, basically, because you have to adjust for environment. Period. It's why the Rockies excel at hitting at home and are terrible on the road, year after year. Park factors. They matter. Again, him scoring runs is a byproduct of *his team* not scoring runs. Look at every single split statistic with men on base for the entire roster. It's still ugly, just not quite as ugly as two or three weeks ago. Both things you mention are literally in the formula for wRC+....so the argument fades quickly when you take that into account. Weighted runs created. Definition: Runs Created estimates a player's offensive contribution in terms of total runs. It combines a player's ability to get on base with his ability to hit for extra bases. Then it divides those two by the player's total opportunities. So I guess he brings something to the plate. BIG discrepancy hitting at Coors field opposed to other parks. Cincy too. Those are no brainers. Everybody gets that. If he would get on base more, he would score more runs, especially with Tatis hitting behind him, and his speed. That's just basic baseball 101. He's not getting on base nearly enough. And, like I said, he's hitting where he should be, but I bet Tatis would be stoked if the guy could get on more often before he gets up to the plate. It certainly would help his RBI total. It just gets real tiring watching him strike out so much, and a lot of times looking. Put the ball in play more, and get on base more. Utilize your speed. Again, average doesn't mean good in all situations. You need to understand that. And, no, he's not "fine" as you state,in terms of hitting production. And please, never compare him to Trout or Roberts. It really makes you look bad.
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 6, 2023 21:15:39 GMT -8
Two days ago, he was a 99 wRC+ hitter. 100 is league average. He's now at 96. So we can go with slightly below, for the sake of simplicity, which I think is fine considering how long this argument has transpired for. wRC+ is the easiest and most utilized statistic to account for ballpark adjustments. Anything else is noise, basically, because you have to adjust for environment. Period. It's why the Rockies excel at hitting at home and are terrible on the road, year after year. Park factors. They matter. Again, him scoring runs is a byproduct of *his team* not scoring runs. Look at every single split statistic with men on base for the entire roster. It's still ugly, just not quite as ugly as two or three weeks ago. Both things you mention are literally in the formula for wRC+....so the argument fades quickly when you take that into account. Weighted runs created. Definition: Runs Created estimates a player's offensive contribution in terms of total runs. It combines a player's ability to get on base with his ability to hit for extra bases. Then it divides those two by the player's total opportunities. So I guess he brings something to the plate. BIG discrepancy hitting at Coors field opposed to other parks. Cincy too. Those are no brainers. Everybody gets that. If he would get on base more, he would score more runs, especially with Tatis hitting behind him. He's not getting on base nearly enough. And, like I said, he's hitting where he should be, but I bet Tatis would be stoked if the guy could get on more often before he gets up to the plate. It certainly would help his RBI total. It just gets real tiring watching him strike out so much, and a lot of times looking. Put the ball in play more, and get on base more. Utilize your speed. Again, average doesn't mean good in all situations. You need to understand that. And, no, he's not "fine" as you state,in terms of hitting production. And please, never compare him to Trout or Roberts. It really makes you look bad. My understanding is not the problem. Believe me, I can justify arguments all day long here because the justifications are backed by the numbers. The numbers are all that matter here. I'm not going to bull$#!+ Erik or anyone by saying his numbers with runners on are good. They aren't. It would be disingenuous to do so, so I won't. Get on base more. Here we go again. Simple question: Why is he not getting on base more? (And no, it's not just about strikeouts.) There is a real answer to that question. What is "more?" .340? .350? .360? .400? Quantify that. Nobody compared him to Trout or Robert, John. All I did was state a fact about strikeout rates that you won't quit harping on. Nothing more, nothing less. If I was concerned about looking bad, I'd delete my account here. I...don't....care. I speak facts, based on an understanding of data and statistics, with the actual ability to interpret what I'm looking at and provide useful analysis in doing so. I look for the WHY, not the WHAT.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Jul 6, 2023 21:55:42 GMT -8
Then I guess throw out anyone named Tatis, Soto, Machado, Bogaerts or Kim? If you think those guys aren't doing a MUCH better job at the plate than Grisham then you should never watch baseball again, because you are so blinded by advanced stats that you're not seeing the actual game.
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