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Post by standiego on Apr 26, 2015 16:12:11 GMT -8
Not many of the 2016 guys have made a verbal as of today . Still the AAU summer circuits to peak interests . It will be important for the Aztecs to involve Spencer/ Chol in the offense if we want to get a quality 5/C . we know Shepard/ Pope will be ,so that helps . Would also be nice to show that we can also play at an up tempo style on offense . open recruiting comes again in July, so we will see what happens . Summer session work outs for those enrolled for the current players
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Post by sdcoug on Apr 26, 2015 21:49:46 GMT -8
Well with Spencer, Chol, Shepard, possibly Pope leaving next year there will be important spots to fill, I wouldn't expect the staff to struggle filling the scholarship spots but it doesn't seem like the 4* or occasional 5* players are tripping over themselves to sign on. Am I wrong on this? If this were October or November I'd be worried.
It's April. 12 or the top 60 have committed (per ESPN); wouldn't think it'd be much higher among the next 60.
The good thing about Spencer, Chol, Shep & possibly Pope leaving is that good recruits will see that as an opportunity to play immediately. Has to be enticing to the Ben Kone's, Cage's & Norain's of the world (if latter doesn't commit THIS year).
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Post by Gundo on Apr 28, 2015 10:51:10 GMT -8
I just read this recruiting story on Bleacher Report entitled "Alford Blows it Again in Basketball Recruiting." By any standard this means that Steve Alford is failing in recruiting. Because of that failure, it means that his on the court success cannot be sustained as Howland players move on and graduate. It is time for worry for all Bruin fans.FYI - it just shows how hard it is to recruit when 3 to 5 schools grab all the top 10 to 15 players. There is less parody and more AAU mentality of getting the best players to recruit the best players. bleacherreport.com/tb/dgwWb?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=ucla-basketball
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Post by standiego on Apr 28, 2015 11:17:26 GMT -8
Bottom line last year UCLA got to the SW16 . As we all know , recruiting is very difficult especially when you are battling other top 25 teams . CA HS play is not as good as it used to be , plus Arizona and others are battling for recruits . Of the top 150 HS recruits 25 are going to PAC schools . Believe UCLA has 2 .Kentucky , Duke specialize in the one and done .
Our concern is the Aztec recruiting . If we want to compete for top 25 recruits , then need to be aware many of those guys want to go to a school that show cases their offensive skills . For the most part that is what gets them to the NBA, their dream. We are going to have difficulties recruiting them unless we put more importance to our offense . Yes defense keeps you in the game but need a decent offense to win games against quality teams .
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Post by fisherville on Apr 28, 2015 11:42:26 GMT -8
The biggest reason we don't get top 25 recruits is because of the conference we are in and our lack of tradition.
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Post by fisherville on Apr 28, 2015 11:43:09 GMT -8
Judging by recent scout article on Narain we are in a good place with him, SDSU and Gonzaga leads I get feeling though that we have current edge. No inside info.
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Post by standiego on Apr 28, 2015 14:50:14 GMT -8
Right now it is 50/50 for Zags or Aztecs . No moral victory for coming in second . ( or being bounce back , would guess that means back to the east Coast , also he may want to red shirt first year , so doubt he bounces any where ). So we either win or lose this recruit . Well worth fighting for Now. Not sure if he is on the AAU circuit or is working on classes to graduate this spring summer .or Both .
Zags may need to add transfers at guard they lost their 3 top guards to graduation .
Another problem for the Aztec recruiting . We base most of it in CA . Yes Winston is Vegas HS .So of the 11 on scholarship 10 are CA . Out of the top 40 HS recruits only 4 are from CA in 2015 and 4 in 2016 . The top 2 from CA for 2016 have Verbal to UCLA and Arizona . So this makes it tough to get the higher quality guys . Would help to expand recruiting into Texas . Or ??
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Post by Gundo on Apr 28, 2015 16:56:58 GMT -8
Right now it is 50/50 for Zags or Aztecs . No moral victory for coming in second . ( or being bounce back , would guess that means back to the east Coast , also he may want to red shirt first year , so doubt he bounces any where ). So we either win or lose this recruit . Well worth fighting for Now. Not sure if he is on the AAU circuit or is working on classes to graduate this spring summer .or Both . Zags may need to add transfers at guard they lost their 3 top guards to graduation . Another problem for the Aztec recruiting . We base most of it in CA . Yes Winston is Vegas HS .So of the 11 on scholarship 10 are CA . Out of the top 40 HS recruits only 4 are from CA in 2015 and 4 in 2016 . The top 2 from CA for 2016 have Verbal to UCLA and Arizona . So this makes it tough to get the higher quality guys . Would help to expand recruiting into Texas . Or ?? There's got to be at least 10+ good reasons for Easterners and Midwest kids to play at the Mesa. Let's make this a collaboration: - It's always 75 and sunny
- Wooden Award Coach
- 6 Straight trips to the NCAA Tourney
- List item 4
- List item 5
- List item 6
- List item 7
- List item 8
- List item 9
- List item 10
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Post by standiego on Apr 28, 2015 18:25:04 GMT -8
As you can see from current signings Duke , Kansas , Kentucky , Arizona ( and a lot of the PAC teams ) , have the upper hand other then the weather ( doubt MBB players care ,) they want the fastest path to the NBA )
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Post by ignoranus on Apr 29, 2015 5:56:29 GMT -8
# 7 on that list should be the "Undie Run".
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Post by thepapacy on Apr 29, 2015 6:26:36 GMT -8
#8 - parties at least once a month called something like lingerave or pajama jam
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Post by thepapacy on Apr 29, 2015 6:27:22 GMT -8
and #5 - Trujillos
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Post by Gundo on May 5, 2015 21:29:49 GMT -8
2016 Recruiting Class - starts of with 4-star Nolan Narain in a jump ball with Gonzaga. 4-star MJ Cage narrows down SDSU and the Blue bloods, now we have 2 transfers on officials from Louisville and Indiana. That's not a bad start, 2016 could be a very good year.
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Post by sdcoug on May 5, 2015 21:50:22 GMT -8
2016 Recruiting Class - starts of with 4-star Nolan Narain in a jump ball with Gonzaga. 4-star MJ Cage narrows down SDSU and the Blue bloods, now we have 2 transfers on officials from Louisville and Indiana. That's not a bad start, 2016 could be a very good year. Still hoping NN is 2015 rather than 2016, but agree on all points.
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Post by aztecsiggy on May 8, 2015 11:03:08 GMT -8
No question we have had the strongest recruiting classes the last couple of years in the programs history, but I still will ask the question if it seems that based upon our CONSISTENT success the past several years and being nationally recognized as a top 25 program (not just a one or two year wonder but truly respected), if at this point we should be able to recruit just a bit higher and slightly easier than we have this year. Believe me I am not complaining as we have some great kids but I just get the nagging feeling we are still a half-step behind were we should be in recruiting at this point. Am I completely wrong?Do you agree? (If so what may be the issues? - conference, retiring coach, unattractive system etc.) Also, anyone know of a good metric based site that ranks past recruiting classes? I would be interested in some supporting data. Just interested in what folks here think. You're completely wrong.
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Post by leastcoast on May 8, 2015 12:09:18 GMT -8
recruiting is healthy. we are getting top flight recruits. when we see the recruiting lists of kentucky, duke and arizona it's obvious that it could be better. I believe the aztecs get enough talent to compete with almost anybody on the basketball court. they certainly have enough talent to win a national title if they get the right breaks. I think it's just a matter of time till they start picking up mcdonald all americans, though that designation is far from being a definitive scale of measure of a player's future success. more than the obvious issues of money poured into the program, I believe that perceptions of how "cool" a program is, supersedes all. the money helps kentucky recruit but how much is drake's friendship to couch cal worth or any of the other flashy relationships to celebrities the program has? you might say duke, as a school is prestigious but shane battier, christian laettner isn't exactly cool. I'd completely agree with you but kyrie is pretty cool and the fact that couch k works with the dream team every year makes it desirable also. doesn't alabama spend money on basketball? cause they have tons of $$$. if cash was all you needed then why wouldn't they have a top 25 team every year? in fact alabama spends just a little bit more than sdsu but the aztecs are the better basketball destination. I would wager they have pretty good facilities there but it's not a cool basketball school. 2 $16,198,525 Kentucky (SEC) 10 $10,245,526 Auburn (SEC) 14 $9,540,547 Florida (SEC) 27 $7,681,927 Arkansas (SEC) 37 $7,075,750 Vanderbilt (SEC) 39 $7,051,872 South Carolina (SEC) 46 $6,573,147 Alabama (SEC) 49 $6,487,909 San Diego State (MWC) 56 $6,284,215 Missouri (SEC) 60 $6,123,546 Gonzaga (WCC) 99 $3,548,890 UNLV (MWC) linkthe question is how do we leverage and exploit "cool" to attract recruits? how do we propagate it? don't get me wrong spending money on stuff we're already behind in such as facilities is important but don't underestimate how when kawhi stalks a ballhandler with his hands down like a guy about to get in a fight and the broadcaster says "former aztec kawhi leonard takes the ball away from steph curry dunks it on the other end!" it's baddass and it's national coverage of a high profile alumni. when tes raps about the team, when our guys show up on instagram on the beach in the san diego sun, when our guys are wearing the hottest kicks in the nation, when snoop dog wears aztec gear at ucsd.... this is all cultural capital that is at least as important as the actual money being spent. sdsu is almost doubling unlv's expenses but who's the one getting 5 star recruits?
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Post by AccessBowlTime on May 8, 2015 12:11:14 GMT -8
Not the dreaded "P" word!
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Post by sdcoug on May 8, 2015 13:55:50 GMT -8
recruiting is healthy. we are getting top flight recruits. when we see the recruiting lists of kentucky, duke and arizona it's obvious that it could be better. I believe the aztecs get enough talent to compete with almost anybody on the basketball court. they certainly have enough talent to win a national title if they get the right breaks. I think it's just a matter of time till they start picking up mcdonald all americans, though that designation is far from being a definitive scale of measure of a player's future success. more than the obvious issues of money poured into the program, I believe that perceptions of how "cool" a program is, supersedes all. the money helps kentucky recruit but how much is drake's friendship to couch cal worth or any of the other flashy relationships to celebrities the program has? you might say duke, as a school is prestigious but shane battier, christian laettner isn't exactly cool. I'd completely agree with you but kyrie is pretty cool and the fact that couch k works with the dream team every year makes it desirable also. doesn't alabama spend money on basketball? cause they have tons of $$$. if cash was all you needed then why wouldn't they have a top 25 team every year? in fact alabama spends just a little bit more than sdsu but the aztecs are the better basketball destination. I would wager they have pretty good facilities there but it's not a cool basketball school. 2 $16,198,525 Kentucky (SEC) 10 $10,245,526 Auburn (SEC) 14 $9,540,547 Florida (SEC) 27 $7,681,927 Arkansas (SEC) 37 $7,075,750 Vanderbilt (SEC) 39 $7,051,872 South Carolina (SEC) 46 $6,573,147 Alabama (SEC) 49 $6,487,909 San Diego State (MWC) 56 $6,284,215 Missouri (SEC) 60 $6,123,546 Gonzaga (WCC) 99 $3,548,890 UNLV (MWC) linkthe question is how do we leverage and exploit "cool" to attract recruits? how do we propagate it? don't get me wrong spending money on stuff we're already behind in such as facilities is important but don't underestimate how when kawhi stalks a ballhandler with his hands down like a guy about to get in a fight and the broadcaster says "former aztec kawhi leonard takes the ball away from steph curry dunks it on the other end!" it's baddass and it's national coverage of a high profile alumni. when tes raps about the team, when our guys show up on instagram on the beach in the san diego sun, when our guys are wearing the hottest kicks in the nation, when snoop dog wears aztec gear at ucsd.... this is all cultural capital that is at least as important as the actual money being spent. sdsu is almost doubling unlv's expenses but who's the one getting 5 star recruits? Interesting post, and great link. Thanks for sharing.
I get what you're saying but I think it's a lot less about the Drakes or hang around celebrities than other factors when it comes to "cool". I actually see "cool" and spending as closely related. I define "cool" more based on:
1. History - if you're a team that gets to the dance annually (e.g. SDSU, Zags, MSU, Duke, etc.); can fly a lot of banners in their arena, with Final 4's & conference championships even carrying more weight; have tradition sending players to the next level (& they're still connected to program) then you're "cool". With Leonard we're now becoming "cooler". A few more names wouldn't hurt...
2. Commitment to BB - Are they completely focused on football? Have they sacrificed BBall facility upgrades for other sports? As you mentioned, Bama spends but the question is more about where is the focus of the athletic administration? Everyone knows their football facilities are beyond belief, and they literally are "a football school". So b-ball plays second fiddle. Same at USC - people always point to Galen, but the reality is Galen is far from "new" and from a practice facility perspective they're actually below average for the P12 now. Plus, there's a huge history in football. It's a football school. Duke, Kentucky - the big donations go to those sports, and thus their BBall facilities are the one's which tend to be their focus for upgrades & improvements. There are definitely some schools which are good & have traditions in both, but it's not common & they usually spend really big on both. Zags are "cool" because BBall is their football - that's where all their tradition lies. BBall schools are "cool".
3. Ability to advance- another factor with teams like Alabama & USC is that although they spend, they're more historically a middle of the pack school in their conference, and thus face a tougher task of a) winning their conference and b) getting to the dance. Go to Gonzaga & you have a 99% chance of going to the dance at least 3 of your 4 years - that's attractive. Go to USC & although still in the heart of recruiting territory, UCLA is still #1 in that market, and UA is the class of the conference. There's no guarantee you'll get to the tourney even if you're a stud player & you're team is going to be pretty good. There's a LOT of comp, and being a "mid-tier" school is tough to move to a higher shelf. Going to the dance and/or winning your conference is "cool".
Some interesting things with the list. Need to take into account who made coaching changes last year, and who's building new facilities. A Oregon State, while investing more in hoops, isn't spending more the UCLA without the buyout of Robinson, and opening a brand new practice facility. Yet it is interesting knowing that they've been a doormat of late yet invested & this past year they've made giant strides. Different for WSU - need to subtract $1.6MM from that to really gauge how much they truly invest in hoops (zip - other than overpaying coaches so they come there).
Surprised Zags aren't higher, given their charter contracts, etc., but there may be other factors keeping them low. ASU is much higher than I'd have anticipated, but shows that with a Hurley they may be able to compete. They're willing to invest.
Obviously UNLV doesn't include player payouts in their expenses. : ) Thought Boise would be higher as well, but again - no new facilities, no buyouts, and like Zags, maybe cheaper OH in NW.
Curious how much of our expenses are related to the practice facility?
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Post by standiego on May 8, 2015 14:04:22 GMT -8
Would guess if you asked Fisher , he may say recruiting is a lot more difficult then coaching the guys . Aztecs are currently about a top 32 team . Making the jump to another level means recruiting against some of the top teams .2016 We had verbal from K. Smith .then he flipped to the Ducks. Does not look as though we can get a top 25 guy. So maybe a top 50 ? Gonzaga recruited Collins , we have verbal with Narain . Great recruit , now how can we add another quality guy or two in the top 50 or 100 .?
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Post by fredgarvinmp on May 8, 2015 15:26:29 GMT -8
What’s in a number?
This is a case of me back peddling a just bit on my original post, a little change of paradigm if you will as I sought to quantify my original point I actually ended up with data that supported an argument that you just can’t look at the rankings, they are fool’s gold for many programs. Obviously there is a direct correlation between highly ranked recruits and program success of the Dukes, Kentucky’s and Arizona’s of the world, and an overall correlation between programs ranked over 100 vs under 100, but certainly for a large group of programs the number a kid or a class is ranked isn’t that important according to this small sample. Obviously there are other considerations to a program’s success (i.e. transfers, coaching, the RIGHT kid for your program, players leaving etc.), but this is a look at the correlation between numeric rankings and success of a program. This again is a bit of a counter to my original post.
I decided to take the numerical class ranking of 3 programs related to SDSU and see where their recruiting class ranked each of the last 5 years and it was interesting to say the least. SDSU, Gonzaga (because they are the type of program we see ourselves most similar to) and UNLV. I used 247Sports as they had a more complete ranking list than other sites and seemed to be consistent in the general ranking area as ESPN.
SDSU (year and class rank) 2011 – 100+ 2012 – 37 2013 – 48 2014 – 18 2015 – 47
Gonzaga 2011 - 45 2012 – 100+ 2013 – 113 2014 – 40 2015 – 91
UNLV 2011 – 59 2012 – 5 2013 – 28 2014 – 5 2015 – 9
UNLV obviously had a CLEAR edge in class rankings but performed by far the worst on the court, Gonzaga had some fairly low rated classes yet ranked better on average than SDSU which had fairly consistent mid-level class rankings.
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