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Post by fredgarvinmp on Apr 25, 2015 8:37:17 GMT -8
No question we have had the strongest recruiting classes the last couple of years in the programs history, but I still will ask the question if it seems that based upon our CONSISTENT success the past several years and being nationally recognized as a top 25 program (not just a one or two year wonder but truly respected), if at this point we should be able to recruit just a bit higher and slightly easier than we have this year. Believe me I am not complaining as we have some great kids but I just get the nagging feeling we are still a half-step behind were we should be in recruiting at this point.
Am I completely wrong?
Do you agree? (If so what may be the issues? - conference, retiring coach, unattractive system etc.)
Also, anyone know of a good metric based site that ranks past recruiting classes? I would be interested in some supporting data.
Just interested in what folks here think.
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Post by standiego on Apr 25, 2015 9:09:45 GMT -8
We added 5 layers this past year 4 HS and transfer Chol for our best class . Lost some transfers because we maxed out of scholarships - gave last to AQ . 2015 we had only 2 , does look as though we have the PG we need .2016 will be very important, we should 4 scholarships and need to replace 3 starters .
As you mention . We have improved our team and recruiting to a top 25 team . But the next step consistent SW16 or E8 or F4 . We are going against the top 10 schools / blue bloods . Most who do get into the upper levels of MM . P5 conferences do matter , they have higher budgets to recruit and even the stipends .facilities , ties to AAU. and Prep Schools, salary of the coaches.... We have K. Leonard as our guy that has blossomed in the NBA . But the top schools mention numerous guys that are drafted every year . Major competitor on the West Arizona ,can show tradition , getting guys to NBA .... The MW is not considered a great conference so that does not help . Look at past MM performances . The PAC is . For 2015, 25 top 150 recruits are going to the PAC . Only 7 to the MW . The SEC , ACC , B12, BIG also recruit well and get teams into the elite part of MM.
Also if you are a recruit who likes to focus on your scoring , not play that much D . Then you know your PT may be not be what you may want . Do not play D at SDSU and you sit . To some recruits that could be the difference . Some schools may seem to develop certain positions better for the NBA , so a recruit may go there . Arizona uses its ties to recruit CA and even out to the East and Texas . Not easy to win with only guys from CA .
Gonzaga has worked hard to do well but still has trouble in recruiting HS players .
So there are numerous factors that go into recruiting . In the end it is the recruit who gets to select the school . Every top recruit has their own reasons but many want to get to the NBA , and look who can get them there as quickly as possible.
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Post by aztecttcas on Apr 25, 2015 9:29:02 GMT -8
We added 5 layers this past year 4 HS and transfer Chol for our best class . Lost some transfers because we maxed out of scholarships - gave last to AQ . 2015 we had only 2 , does look as though we have the PG we need .2016 will be very important, we should 4 scholarships and need to replace 3 starters . As you mention . We have improved our team and recruiting to a top 25 team . But the next step consistent SW16 or E8 or F4 . We are going against the top 10 schools / blue bloods . Most who do get into the upper levels of MM . P5 conferences do matter , they have higher budgets to recruit and even the stipends .facilities , ties to AAU. and Prep Schools, salary of the coaches.... We have K. Leonard as our guy that has blossomed in the NBA . But the top schools mention numerous guys that are drafted every year . Major competitor on the West Arizona ,can show tradition , getting guys to NBA .... The MW is not considered a great conference so that does not help . Look at past MM performances . The PAC is . For 2015, 25 top 150 recruits are going to the PAC . Only 7 to the MW . The SEC , ACC , B12, BIG also recruit well and get teams into the elite part of MM. Also if you are a recruit who likes to focus on your scoring , not play that much D . Then you know your PT may be not be what you may want . Do not play D at SDSU and you sit . To some recruits that could be the difference . Some schools may seem to develop certain positions better for the NBA , so a recruit may go there . Arizona uses its ties to recruit CA and even out to the East and Texas . Not easy to win with only guys from CA . Gonzaga has worked hard to do well but still has trouble in recruiting HS players . So there are numerous factors that go into recruiting . In the end it is the recruit who gets to select the school . Every top recruit has their own reasons but many want to get to the NBA , and look who can get them there as quickly as possible. There's a lot of merit to what you are saying. Most high school recruits I feel are more interested in their offense. I don't go to a ton of high school games but the ones I go to I see a lot of offense and not much D. So I think recruits know they won't get off the bench at SDSU if they don't D it up. The other thing I see is our style of play is not an up and down type of offense that most kids like. Fish has said he allows players to create their shot and such so maybe he just hasn't been able to get kids who can create their own shot so it looks like we have a stagnant offense. Just looking at both sides here... |
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Post by Gundo on Apr 25, 2015 9:29:36 GMT -8
Lets take a look at our 2015 recruits against the Rivals offers and where they landed. Please note we had 3 scholarships spots until Zabo left the program. We were in the hunt for many of these 4 star players and a few we stopped recruiting. 2 of 2 top 100 players isn't a step down.
Derek Thornton #14 Reclassified signed with Duke
Ray Smith #17 Tore ACL as a senior signed with Zona
Justin Simon #25 local SD area signed with Zona, legacy
Chimeze Metu #41 signed with Bland at USC
Stephen Thompson #50 signed with OSU, Beavers made father asst coach
Marquees Chris's #56 signed with Romar at U Dub
Marcus LoVett #62 TBD, needs to pass entrance exams
Jermey Hemsley #74 LA Times and 3A POY
Rex Pflueger #83 signed with Notre Dame
Cameron Walker #85 Stanford
Brodricks Jones #102 Aztec 4 Life
Kendall Small #110 signed with Oregon
Nate Grimes #121 MWC foe at FSU
Sedrick Barfield #128 early signee at SMU
Drew Eubanks #138 early signee with OSU
New Williams NA Auburn
Earnest Aflkapui NA Temple, local Philly kid
any of these guys could be bounce back transfers.
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Post by aztecanthony on Apr 25, 2015 9:31:27 GMT -8
First thought would be conference however UNLV continues to land 5 star recruits. Retiring coach IMO is not a factor since things will continue without major changes due to the Continuity ie. Coach in waiting tutored and trained for decades. The system I believe is the issue, our defense first and stagnant offense looked a bit ugly this year. I think this has hurt some. I think coach Fisher said recently that the current players are very important in recruiting. If some are unhappy with being yanked out of games for minor small mistake while others can do no wrong and stay in the game no matter what.... A few of us see this, believe me the recruits talk and they hear this as well. On a positive note, Hemsly is good enough to overcome any of this and the Aztecs will be better next year with Hemsly, Pope, and other returners. I predict a March madness run next year, perhaps an elite 8! My optimistic side tells me the coaches learned something, please let the horses out more often!!! The horses will always be attracted to the pasture wihere they can run free  ? |
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Post by fredgarvinmp on Apr 25, 2015 9:48:11 GMT -8
Good points so far all, especially standiegos point about Gonzaga still finding it difficult even though they are an NCAA brand at this point. I think most of us here see a correlation between SDSU and Gonzaga as programs so point well taken.
My point of the OP wasn't to criticize the progress here, it is more of an open discussion on where we are today and what our real expectations should be moving forward.
Follow-up question: Obviously the new practice facility will help with recruiting (once it's open and kids can go in it even more so), is there anything else we can build/provide in regards to the basketball program to make it even more enticing to come here? This program certainly is on the verge of becoming the next Gonzaga, what is the next piece of the puzzle after the center to get that 5-star kid excitied?
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Post by aztecanthony on Apr 25, 2015 9:54:53 GMT -8
We need more top 30 kids here. We need DEEP runs in March, and a beat down of Arizona would do wonders!
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Apr 25, 2015 10:48:43 GMT -8
We need more top 30 kids here. We need DEEP runs in March, and a beat down of Arizona would do wonders! Good points! Beating the pac12 and other P5 opponents at every opportunity would help! They need 4* players that are hungry to win and best the P5! JMO |
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Post by aztecfury on Apr 25, 2015 11:13:16 GMT -8
No question we have had the strongest recruiting classes the last couple of years in the programs history, but I still will ask the question if it seems that based upon our CONSISTENT success the past several years and being nationally recognized as a top 25 program (not just a one or two year wonder but truly respected), if at this point we should be able to recruit just a bit higher and slightly easier than we have this year. Believe me I am not complaining as we have some great kids but I just get the nagging feeling we are still a half-step behind were we should be in recruiting at this point. Am I completely wrong? Do you agree? (If so what may be the issues? - conference, retiring coach, unattractive system etc.) Also, anyone know of a good metric based site that ranks past recruiting classes? I would be interested in some supporting data. Just interested in what folks here think. I don't get how you can say that that the recruiting has plateaued, when we are still getting good recruits. Jeremy Hemsley is a stud LA Times Player of the Year, guess who else was a LA Times POY, Kawhi Leonard. I think the issue is less a lack of recruits and more a lack of scholarships, since we used all our scholarships this year. Also the practice facility will be finished in a few months and will help recruiting. Now we have 2 open (with Zabo leaving), coaches have said before they want to continue to recruit transfers since we have built program success on transfers in the past. However, if we strike out for this years recruiting, that would not be a great sign. |
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Post by Old School on Apr 25, 2015 12:10:27 GMT -8
The coaches are still picking and choosing, with quality players lining up, trying to transfer here.
So, we're not plateauing, we're just taking our time...finding the perfect players that fit the needs of the program (talent, skillset, character).
I wouldn't have it any other way.
Oldie Out
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Post by Gundo on Apr 25, 2015 14:14:01 GMT -8
We need more top 30 kids here. We need DEEP runs in March, and a beat down of Arizona would do wonders! We have 8 offers out and 0 are top 30 for 2016. We do have 6 of 8 offers out to good 4 star players and 2 good 3 star players as well as; a host of top transfers to fill in after Chol, Sky, Shep and Polk leave. |
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Post by Pasadenaztec on Apr 25, 2015 14:29:41 GMT -8
We need more top 30 kids here. We need DEEP runs in March, and a beat down of Arizona would do wonders! We have 8 offers out and 0 are top 30 for 2016. We do have 6 of 8 offers out to good 4 star players and 2 good 3 star players as well as; a host of top transfers to fill in after Chol, Sky, Shep and Polk leave. That's the first I've heard of a player on our team named "Polk". |
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Post by standiego on Apr 25, 2015 17:12:17 GMT -8
The name of the game is quality not quantity for recruits. Possibly : Narain , Cage , Bailey , Koen , and or a quality guard. It is also better to build the roster with quality players from HS 's then to rely on transfers . Maybe 1 or 2 transfers as needed to fill a troubled area . Not be referred as the bounce back school. The 2015 team could only have 1 transfer . The very high quality teams do it that way and so should the Aztecs . May take an adjustment in the offense , play more up tempo , involve the centers in the offense and attack the basket , finish what you start . Spend as much time in practice on offense as is spent on defense . Use the skills of our athletic guys on both ends of the court . Need to extend our recruiting past CA . Losing Zabo did not help but need to move forward . Recruiting is a job , that coaches need to do almost 12 months a year , or when ever there are open times per NCAA rules. If not the coaches then guys on the roster need to chat with other guys , as Fisher says , the guys on our team do a great job of recruiting foe us .
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Post by sdcoug on Apr 25, 2015 18:03:01 GMT -8
Good points so far all, especially standiegos point about Gonzaga still finding it difficult even though they are an NCAA brand at this point. I think most of us here see a correlation between SDSU and Gonzaga as programs so point well taken. My point of the OP wasn't to criticize the progress here, it is more of an open discussion on where we are today and what our real expectations should be moving forward. Follow-up question: Obviously the new practice facility will help with recruiting (once it's open and kids can go in it even more so), is there anything else we can build/provide in regards to the basketball program to make it even more enticing to come here? This program certainly is on the verge of becoming the next Gonzaga, what is the next piece of the puzzle after the center to get that 5-star kid excitied? If the goal is to have a program like Gonzaga there's a lot we can do, all focused on MONEY. Gonzaga has their own charter plane and not only fly charter to every game but coaching staff has access to charter flights for recruiting and a much higher recruiting budget. BBALL is their football and they spend like football. First class. Given our location and proximity to LA recruiting we don't need our own charter but we should be chartering more than we do. Shows a commitment to the players and plays well in recruiting. I'm not worried about recruiting right now. We have 2 stud recruits coming in, and a strong 2016 class available. No need to panic. But you asked what we can do to improve BBall and target Zags. Simple: Donate more. We still need to raise money for JAM center, we need money for more charters, and we need to cover the cost of scholarships. Also allows us to provide competitive salaries moving forward. |
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Post by fredgarvinmp on Apr 25, 2015 20:05:13 GMT -8
Good points so far all, especially standiegos point about Gonzaga still finding it difficult even though they are an NCAA brand at this point. I think most of us here see a correlation between SDSU and Gonzaga as programs so point well taken. My point of the OP wasn't to criticize the progress here, it is more of an open discussion on where we are today and what our real expectations should be moving forward. Follow-up question: Obviously the new practice facility will help with recruiting (once it's open and kids can go in it even more so), is there anything else we can build/provide in regards to the basketball program to make it even more enticing to come here? This program certainly is on the verge of becoming the next Gonzaga, what is the next piece of the puzzle after the center to get that 5-star kid excitied? If the goal is to have a program like Gonzaga there's a lot we can do, all focused on MONEY. Gonzaga has their own charter plane and not only fly charter to every game but coaching staff has access to charter flights for recruiting and a much higher recruiting budget. BBALL is their football and they spend like football. First class. Given our location and proximity to LA recruiting we don't need our own charter but we should be chartering more than we do. Shows a commitment to the players and plays well in recruiting. I'm not worried about recruiting right now. We have 2 stud recruits coming in, and a strong 2016 class available. No need to panic. But you asked what we can do to improve BBall and target Zags. Simple: Donate more. We still need to raise money for JAM center, we need money for more charters, and we need to cover the cost of scholarships. Also allows us to provide competitive salaries moving forward. Good points. |
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Post by aztech on Apr 25, 2015 21:08:11 GMT -8
Good points so far all, especially standiegos point about Gonzaga still finding it difficult even though they are an NCAA brand at this point. I think most of us here see a correlation between SDSU and Gonzaga as programs so point well taken. My point of the OP wasn't to criticize the progress here, it is more of an open discussion on where we are today and what our real expectations should be moving forward. Follow-up question: Obviously the new practice facility will help with recruiting (once it's open and kids can go in it even more so), is there anything else we can build/provide in regards to the basketball program to make it even more enticing to come here? This program certainly is on the verge of becoming the next Gonzaga, what is the next piece of the puzzle after the center to get that 5-star kid excitied? If the goal is to have a program like Gonzaga there's a lot we can do, all focused on MONEY. Gonzaga has their own charter plane and not only fly charter to every game but coaching staff has access to charter flights for recruiting and a much higher recruiting budget. BBALL is their football and they spend like football. First class. Given our location and proximity to LA recruiting we don't need our own charter but we should be chartering more than we do. Shows a commitment to the players and plays well in recruiting. I'm not worried about recruiting right now. We have 2 stud recruits coming in, and a strong 2016 class available. No need to panic. But you asked what we can do to improve BBall and target Zags. Simple: Donate more. We still need to raise money for JAM center, we need money for more charters, and we need to cover the cost of scholarships. Also allows us to provide competitive salaries moving forward. The JAM center is what will give us a whole new dimension with our recruiting. Fisher said it himself, in that Pope and company wouldn't have come here if he didn't have the blueprint to show them. I definitely agree about the charter flights. For the most part the goats are located where only charters can make direct flights from San Diego. |
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Apr 26, 2015 5:58:49 GMT -8
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2015 6:22:42 GMT -8
Charter flights for the team are very expensive especially when you have to pay twice. Title 9 means if the MBB charters to X then the WBB CHARTERS TO X. Until the contributing fan base increases substantially it's not going to be much. That's one of the reasons why the Aztec Club's failure to grow is so important.
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Post by standiego on Apr 26, 2015 8:14:12 GMT -8
Yes the money and donations are important . Adds up to money for the AD to spend . Coaches and Recruiting and travel. Zags get a lot from the Spokane area .Not that much competition for donations or sports teams. SDSU is fortunate to the
JAM donors. But you need to win big to keep them involved. Do not know with Zags not being a school that needs to spend anything for the football expenses if that frees up a lot of money for the Zags AD,for basketball. They also do not get money from football revenue but not sure if SDSU gains or loses from football revenue vs expenses . WCC also has some travel partner weekends on the schedule . Zags may play at LMU on a Thursday then Saturday at Pepperdine , so they can cut down on expenses . They also have numerous schools that have airports that fly in direct commercial .Play at USF then St Mary's . the money starts to add up . Do not think the MW does that .
Recruiting is across the nation . Good teams can not just recruit from 1 state , even as good as CA maybe but is not as good as we may think . The coaches need to be attending a lot of the AAU events if you want top 25 recruits . That costs money .
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Apr 26, 2015 8:27:33 GMT -8
Well with Spencer, Chol, Shepard, possibly Pope leaving next year there will be important spots to fill, I wouldn't expect the staff to struggle filling the scholarship spots but it doesn't seem like the 4* or occasional 5* players are tripping over themselves to sign on. Am I wrong on this?
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