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Post by sdcoug on Jun 2, 2015 18:03:38 GMT -8
If we want to be able to be a SW16 or really closer to E8 . Then we need high quality players . Guess I am spoiled and want quality over quantity and role players . IMO and other schools , such as Gonzaga-who seem to know something about recruiting centers , Williams is a quality player . Not my opinion Gonzaga's We need guys that want to play center. Yes he actually played against Kentucky and others . Has production to prove it what else would you go by ?. Please expound on Max's scoring ability and that is what you say he is . During the 12 of 13 games of the BIG - SCORED ZERO, from a great shooter? Max was only being actively recruited by Rice , UNLV had signed a forward while Max was visiting here . Aztec coaches must have thought Aaron was an even better player if the brought him in after Max was here and said he would sign . Yes I do feel Aaron has more all around talent in every category then Max at both SF or SG , but USC signed him . Guess we can compare the production - in 2016 and the years that follow . Neither player performed well their freshman so we guess on future production. We all have opinions , IMO there were so many more quality transfers out there and the one we got was Max . I have nothing against him just think the coaches could have done better. You say we can wait on recruiting until March /April , the early signing time ends mid November . Recruits have been signing earlier this year then last year . Most of the work happens this spring summer ,into fall . Just hope we have a good 2016 recruiting class . We are going to need it . Hope you are right but seems to me the coaches could have signed a better player Did you actually read my post? I did NOT say we can 'wait on recruiting until March/April'. Are you clueless? Recruiting HAS been happening, but it's JUNE!!! Check a calendar! Are you saying we haven't been recruiting Cage, Kone, Stanbeck & others for well over a year? WE HAVE BEEN. We'll be in contact with ALL these guys through the summer, and into the early signing period. But as you know (hopefully) more & more players are delaying their signing (see Rabb, many others) until the late period, and as you'll also know (hopefully) transfers happen at mid-year (December/January) & late - March-May. So at least when I look at a calendar I realize that our roster for 2016-17 won't be set until NEXT June, just like our '15-16 wasn't set (& still isn't) as of June 2nd. I'm not going to play the role of chicken little & say the sky is falling a year before our roster needs to be for 2016-17.
You act like not signing Aaron or Williams was the END OF THE WORLD. It wasn't! There are plenty of fish still in the sea, and several have us still on their list.
You say Max wasn't a scorer, referencing his stats at Indy yet think Aaron would replace Pope as our go to guy when his stats were significantly worse. That's funny to me. You can't use 1 as an example & not the other. You shouldn't use EITHER.
We know NOTHING about whether either will be a scorer at their new schools, but what we do know is Max can SHOOT & Aaron was a great HS talent. That's it. How many great HS talents have bombed? How many under recruited shooters have excelled? We also don't know what Max's potential is based on Indy. Not sure how many times I have to say it, but I DO NOT LOOK AT HOW A FRESHMEN DOES as a blueprint for his entire career and most coaches will tell you the same as well, especially one playing behind a star player like Max did.
SHOOTERS SCORE! Yes, they do.
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Post by dirtball on Jun 2, 2015 18:42:00 GMT -8
Calling Hoetzel just a shooter is dumb. I wonder if his skin color has anything to do with the label. He is a decent athlete.
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Post by standiego on Jun 2, 2015 22:31:08 GMT -8
In basics we disagree . you think Max is a great transfer , For ALL the transfers that were available and the needs of the Aztecs . I do not think he is the Scorer that we need . or guy down low . I wish we could have landed a higher quality transfer or hed the scholarship open . I believe we are a program that should do better, I do not see it from Max . 11 games in a row where he did not score He only scored in 1 game out of the last 13 . He primarily scored in OOC. IU averaged more then 70 points a game . I look at Williams stats at a position that we need and was being pursued by Gonzaga . Max by Rice . You ask me about Williams . Please tell or show me actual production from Max , other then his mix tape . Maybe that showed all 21 points he scored during the BIG season about 1.5 points a game or points he scored against OOC teams. I am not that excited about a guy that sets up for shots in the corner or to of the key . Can you honestly say of all the transfers he was one of your top 10 choices to really get the team going for 2016 ? You seem to be in love with a shooter . I look for a scorer , guys that can consistently put points on the board no matter where they shoot from close or from afar. We just see guys in different ways . We will not know until 2016 , when all the guys are playing . Then we can evaluate . I hope I am wrong and Max has a great 2016. Is it the end by the team not getting Williams or Aaron - No . I believe that they would have been major contributors , sure hope Max is . Do you think Max becomes a starter 2016 , 2017 , 2018 ? or role player . I do think we are going to need to recruit guys with a lot more talent for 2016 then Max , what do you think . ? the goal should be a team that is getting toward E8 status or better and we need high quality players . Hope we can get Verbals by Fall and sign them by November .
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Post by Gundo on Jun 2, 2015 22:46:35 GMT -8
Aztecs are not out of the transfer market yet according to the tonights SDUT. According to Coach Fisher:
“Our coaches come in every day and I say, ‘Anybody else out there?’” said Fisher, who is precluded by NCAA rules from discussing specific players until they sign a letter of intent or scholarship agreement. “We’ve got for sure one (traditional) transfer that we are investigating closely as we speak.
“We passed on a lot of fifth-year guys and felt as if what we have coming back (is sufficient). Had we felt like this was a no-brainer to pursue them, we would have. But we didn’t.”
The Aztecs were closely linked to 6'4 SG Lonnie Jackson from BC who committed to Boise St.
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Post by standiego on Jun 2, 2015 22:59:48 GMT -8
there is a center from Florida who is looking at Wash and CAL . Kansas just got a center the other day . Zags landed Williams
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Post by sdcoug on Jun 3, 2015 8:18:39 GMT -8
In basics we disagree . you think Max is a great transfer , For ALL the transfers that were available and the needs of the Aztecs . I do not think he is the Scorer that we need . or guy down low . I wish we could have landed a higher quality transfer or hed the scholarship open . I believe we are a program that should do better, I do not see it from Max . 11 games in a row where he did not score He only scored in 1 game out of the last 13 . He primarily scored in OOC. IU averaged more then 70 points a game . I look at Williams stats at a position that we need and was being pursued by Gonzaga . Max by Rice . You ask me about Williams . Please tell or show me actual production from Max , other then his mix tape . Maybe that showed all 21 points he scored during the BIG season about 1.5 points a game or points he scored against OOC teams. I am not that excited about a guy that sets up for shots in the corner or to of the key . Can you honestly say of all the transfers he was one of your top 10 choices to really get the team going for 2016 ? You seem to be in love with a shooter . I look for a scorer , guys that can consistently put points on the board no matter where they shoot from close or from afar. We just see guys in different ways . We will not know until 2016 , when all the guys are playing . Then we can evaluate . I hope I am wrong and Max has a great 2016. Is it the end by the team not getting Williams or Aaron - No . I believe that they would have been major contributors , sure hope Max is . Do you think Max becomes a starter 2016 , 2017 , 2018 ? or role player . I do think we are going to need to recruit guys with a lot more talent for 2016 then Max , what do you think . ? the goal should be a team that is getting toward E8 status or better and we need high quality players . Hope we can get Verbals by Fall and sign them by November . You do realize J Williams isn't a center, right? He was forced to play center at times (when K Post wasn't on the floor) given how lousy that team was & due to attrition at Missouri. He's a natural stretch 4, although not necessarily a great 3 point shooter. He's Zylan. He's not Skylar or Chol by any means. He's at Gonzaga to be the next Wiltjer, not Karnewski or Sabonis.
Don't know how many times I have to repeat the same thing - you obviously have your opinion: you don't like Max & aren't moving from it. I do NOT base a guys career on his FR year & especially not when he's playing behind a superstar talent like he was. Hoetzel showed his potential vs. Maryland late in the season, playing in crunch time & putting up 6 points. If that was the only conference game he played in I'd think the same thing about him based on what I've seen. Yet he was in the rotation on a good Indiana team which had several very good players (Williams, Yogi, etc.). He wasn't looked to as someone to score or carry the team when he was in the game. Not as a FR - I'd hope you'd realize that. In the instance he was looked at to score he went off early in the year. He knows how to play & how to score. Anyone who can watch tape can see that. If he can improve his d-game he's a very solid addition.
And again, put Hoetzel on Missouri & you're talking a completely different situation.
BTW, you keep referencing Williams playing against a P5 schedule & teams like Kentucky, etc. Did you actually WATCH him play against Kentucky? Did you notice in the 2 games he was 4-22 from the field, 4-10 from the line, averaged 6.5 per game & only had a combined total of 7 boards with 5 TO's & ZERO assists? Newsflash - the SEC was not very good outside Kentucky. Williams had many games where he scored single digits despite taking several shots & playing 30+ minutes, and that's on a bad team that's giving him the ball.
Was Hoetzel my #1 transfer add - no. Tolleson probably was, but get why we backed off him. But was he someone I wanted to have on our squad - definitely, as he was one of the guys the coaches also really liked. Even out of HS. He's a good fit on this roster right now, and that is what's important.
Will he start? Who knows? Definitely think he could if he develops. Who knows if MOST recruits will start? Are you saying you don't want Allen on our roster any more because he most likely won't start? Should we kick Chol to the curb? Toss Williams? If someone is in your rotation during their career he was a good addition. I believe Max will be a rotation guy and will give us something we really need - shooting, which translates into points. And even if he doesn't score he's a threat & opens the floor up for our penetrators, and he happens to be a very good passer.
Moving forward, the staff has built good relationships with several really good players. We have PLENTY of time to add recruits. Even if we don't get Cage we'll be fine. If we don't get Bailey we'll be fine. Our recruiting is on solid footing. We're in as good a place as we've ever been from that perspective. And don't expect us to use all of our scholarships in the fall - I think we go hard after a mid-year or grad transfer.
As noted, we're never going to recruit with the Kansas's, Duke's, Kentucky's or Arizona's, but if we can stay in that 2nd tier & be consistent we'll be fine. What gets us to the S16 & beyond is senior leadership surrounded by very good talent; not having a roster loaded with top 20-30 recruits. The latter isn't going to happen. If we get 1-2 top 100 recruits, awesome.
The 2016-17 roster won't be finalized for 12 more months. No reason to freak out about anything now.
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Post by tayloner on Jun 3, 2015 8:41:21 GMT -8
Aztecs are not out of the transfer market yet according to the tonights SDUT. According to Coach Fisher: “Our coaches come in every day and I say, ‘Anybody else out there?’” said Fisher, who is precluded by NCAA rules from discussing specific players until they sign a letter of intent or scholarship agreement. “We’ve got for sure one (traditional) transfer that we are investigating closely as we speak.
“We passed on a lot of fifth-year guys and felt as if what we have coming back (is sufficient). Had we felt like this was a no-brainer to pursue them, we would have. But we didn’t.”The Aztecs were closely linked to 6'4 SG Lonnie Jackson from BC who committed to Boise St. I'm intrigued by who this might be. Not a ton of highly rated guys still out there, but that's fine, if Fish sees another solid piece.
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Post by sdcoug on Jun 3, 2015 9:19:07 GMT -8
Aztecs are not out of the transfer market yet according to the tonights SDUT. According to Coach Fisher: “Our coaches come in every day and I say, ‘Anybody else out there?’” said Fisher, who is precluded by NCAA rules from discussing specific players until they sign a letter of intent or scholarship agreement. “We’ve got for sure one (traditional) transfer that we are investigating closely as we speak.
“We passed on a lot of fifth-year guys and felt as if what we have coming back (is sufficient). Had we felt like this was a no-brainer to pursue them, we would have. But we didn’t.”The Aztecs were closely linked to 6'4 SG Lonnie Jackson from BC who committed to Boise St. I'm intrigued by who this might be. Not a ton of highly rated guys still out there, but that's fine, if Fish sees another solid piece. Leads me to believe they're fairly convinced Narain won't be reclassifying, given they went after Aaron & now still seeking others.
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Post by standiego on Jun 3, 2015 12:06:35 GMT -8
as noted we were not able to sign any of the quality transfers for 2015 or 2016 . So far we have a non binding Verbal from Narain for most likely 2016 unless he changes his mind and then signs for 2015 . If Malik leaves for the Pros after this year , we are going to need to reload for 2016 . We lose all the starters in the front court 3-4-5 positions and Chol the back up at the 5 . Very important this year is the prep of Zylan at the forward positions , JH at the PG , Kell at SG . 2016 Believe that we have 9 scholarships ,if Narain does sign . So that could mean 3 remaining (if we keep 1 or even 2 open in case ) . So we do some quality guys that have the talent to be major contributors for 2016 - C/ PF , scorer for SF/SG and another quality player . Would hope we still have a strong chance of getting Bailey , plus Cage , Humphries , Kone or . Again quality guys that have the talent to be starters or first reserves . To me the bar should be at least SW16 or better that means getting top recruits . Recruiting for 2016 is going to be a tough battle for 2016 , hope we can land the quality guys . We may not be in the same recruiting level as Duke , Kentucky ... Do hope that we can move up to the next level , with both recruits and a transfer or maybe two but they should be upper level . Doug you are correct Max did go the last 13 straight games with out scoring, until he was put into the BIG playoffs game and scored 6 points in a losing effort . He then went score less in their MM game . I really hope you are correct and he becomes a quality reserve for the Aztecs . Do not dis like Max just had hoped for a better transfer or that we had waited . Do think Allen makes contributions on both offense, could be even better this year if we use an offense that makes more use of guys that can attack the basket, his forte, and is a lock down defender for the Aztecs, on the other team's SF or SG ,so is valuable on both ends of the court . He could benefit from having JH or Williams at PG . Most write ups about Max say he needs to work on his D . Chol , had hoped he would be a better contributor last year and expect him to step up this year .
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Post by sdcoug on Jun 3, 2015 13:27:12 GMT -8
as noted we were not able to sign any of the quality transfers for 2015 or 2016 . So far we have a non binding Verbal from Narain for most likely 2016 unless he changes his mind and then signs for 2015 . If Malik leaves for the Pros after this year , we are going to need to reload for 2016 . We lose all the starters in the front court 3-4-5 positions and Chol the back up at the 5 . Very important this year is the prep of Zylan at the forward positions , JH at the PG , Kell at SG . 2016 Believe that we have 9 scholarships ,if Narain does sign . So that could mean 3 remaining (if we keep 1 or even 2 open in case ) . So we do some quality guys that have the talent to be major contributors for 2016 - C/ PF , scorer for SF/SG and another quality player . Would hope we still have a strong chance of getting Bailey , plus Cage , Humphries , Kone or . Again quality guys that have the talent to be starters or first reserves . To me the bar should be at least SW16 or better that means getting top recruits . Recruiting for 2016 is going to be a tough battle for 2016 , hope we can land the quality guys . We may not be in the same recruiting level as Duke , Kentucky ... Do hope that we can move up to the next level , with both recruits and a transfer or maybe two but they should be upper level . Doug you are correct Max did go the last 13 straight games with out scoring, until he was put into the BIG playoffs game and scored 6 points in a losing effort . He then went score less in their MM game . I really hope you are correct and he becomes a quality reserve for the Aztecs . Do not dis like Max just had hoped for a better transfer or that we had waited . Do think Allen makes contributions on both offense, could be even better this year if we use an offense that makes more use of guys that can attack the basket, his forte, and is a lock down defender for the Aztecs, on the other team's SF or SG ,so is valuable on both ends of the court . He could benefit from having JH or Williams at PG . Most write ups about Max say he needs to work on his D . Chol , had hoped he would be a better contributor last year and expect him to step up this year . First, we were able to sign a "quality transfer", so your initial statement is wrong.
Second, so are you saying you DO like Allen & Chol & there were good additions, or not? Neither will most likely end up starting at SDSU, and since you don't think Max will & because of that is a waste of a scholarship then you must think the same of them, right?
Max will develop, and has very good upside. He's a terrific talent. Yes, he'll have to work on his D' but so would anyone who came here, including your boy Aaron. Especially your boy Aaron.
Recruiting is a tough battle EVERY year and no, you don't need "top recruits" to get to the S16. We proved that 2 years ago with only Winston being highly regarded. What you need to do is develop players and, like a Thames, that includes mid tier 3-star recruits.
BTW, check out how many of the projected top 20 teams next year have ZERO 2016 recruits committed as of today.
We're actually ahead of the game. Chill.
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Post by standiego on Jun 4, 2015 6:42:25 GMT -8
there is no winner in this disagreement,In basics we will need to check back after the 2016 season to see who has better production Max , Aaron or Williams . I hope you are correct and Max is a valuable reserve . also would guess you feel shooter is very important , I seem to value an athletic guy that can score in a variety of ways . I believe 2016 recruiting is even more important then 2015 . For 2015 we should have a talented PG in JH. that could really help all the other players. 2016 we are going to need to replace all three front court starters and our back up center . Not the easiest thing to do . What returning players step up in 2015 and really add to the 2016 season . Would seem we are going to need quality guy similar to Bailey who could play either SF/ or SG, another C/PF be it Cage or Humphries or Kone or ?? and see what other quality player we can Sign. So 2 or 3 quality guys and leave 1 or 2 scholarships open for transfers to fill a need. I think that recruiting quality players and getting them to sign at SDSU is not as easy . plus the better the player we are after the most competition we face but it is worth it if we can land a Bailey or Cage or better .
I do value Allen , he was recruited to be a guy that can take it to the basket , rebound and is our lock down defender on the other team's top SF/ SG . I do not think Chol had a very productive season last year , hope he does this year .
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Post by ignoranus on Jun 4, 2015 8:39:03 GMT -8
Chol showed flashes of being a really good player; and at least as many flashes of needing a lot more practice. Hopefully his finale will be exactly what we have been waiting for from a top 100 player!
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Post by standiego on Jun 4, 2015 8:54:29 GMT -8
I too hope Chol has a banner year . One of the problems seemed to me that he was in foul trouble way too often . He lost a lot of PT,there. Believe the coaches have said they are working with the centers and all the guys about their footwork on defense . Move the feet quicker on D to get in position to defend rather then reach in . Also the officials have been told to eliminate some of the physical play , not allow as much of the "holding " by defenders , not allow most two hand checking or grabbing players who do not have the ball preventing them from getting open. Do think if JH and D. Williams are the PG's , facilitating their team mates, with an offense that is more up tempo , gets guys going to the basket more involved in the play will help Chol , Allen and others .
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Post by sdcoug on Jun 4, 2015 9:24:28 GMT -8
there is no winner in this disagreement,In basics we will need to check back after the 2016 season to see who has better production Max , Aaron or Williams . I hope you are correct and Max is a valuable reserve . also would guess you feel shooter is very important , I seem to value an athletic guy that can score in a variety of ways . I believe 2016 recruiting is even more important then 2015 . For 2015 we should have a talented PG in JH. that could really help all the other players. 2016 we are going to need to replace all three front court starters and our back up center . Not the easiest thing to do . What returning players step up in 2015 and really add to the 2016 season . Would seem we are going to need quality guy similar to Bailey who could play either SF/ or SG, another C/PF be it Cage or Humphries or Kone or ?? and see what other quality player we can Sign. So 2 or 3 quality guys and leave 1 or 2 scholarships open for transfers to fill a need. I think that recruiting quality players and getting them to sign at SDSU is not as easy . plus the better the player we are after the most competition we face but it is worth it if we can land a Bailey or Cage or better . I do value Allen , he was recruited to be a guy that can take it to the basket , rebound and is our lock down defender on the other team's top SF/ SG . I do not think Chol had a very productive season last year , hope he does this year . Every coach will tell you shooters are EXTREMELY important, and Max is pretty athletic & has more game than just shooting. He can handle the ball, pass & flat out shoot. So if you value Allen, who's a career reserve, then you SHOULD value Max as well, even if he ends up being a role player like Allen. Everyone has "roles".
Agree '16 is more important than '15, just like '17 will be more important than '16, etc. To the fans, the NEXT year always is more important than the prior year when it comes to recruiting. No one wants to take a step back, and not sure why you think we will. We have been ROCK SOLID in our recruiting, and now we give our coaching staff MORE tools to recruit, not less with improved training table, the TCA stipend and the JAM center. We're keeping up with the Joneses and the JAM center moves us up further in the pack. We have 1 more commit than most teams do for 2016.
I have no doubt we'll go after a C/PF - don't forget Stanbeck as well, and no doubt we'll go after a SF/SG type of player and no doubt we'll leave 1-2 scholarships open. Personally I think Cage is greatly overrated, but landing him & Bailey would still be good. As would other combinations of players. Not too worried. Getting Narain here is priority #1 for me, and realize we have many months before any of this is sorted out.
And whether or not Chol has been productive thus far he's been a very good addition & recruit. He's a rotation guy who contributes, so if he ever starts a game doesn't dictate if he was a good signing or not. Hence my point about Max.
I am curious which additional transfer we're in conversations with for this year though.
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Post by uncledougy on Jun 4, 2015 9:44:41 GMT -8
I love how everyone gets their panties in a bunch is threads like these!
Every transfer is hyped, some pan out....some don't. The talk is fun, but it's just talk....
Someone said every player can shoot, and that's true, but we need the kids that can shoot and make shots, anyone can shoot. (Captain Obvious)
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Post by standiego on Jun 4, 2015 10:23:31 GMT -8
Agree that is what I said , and Coach Fisher , "we need guys that can score the basketball - Scorers " . Also agree that all the regular transfers are guys that we are going to need to wait until the end of 2016 or possibly 2017 to see what production they are going to add to their teams .
Same with others , will be interesting to hear who the "one for sure transfer the coaches are still pursuing " or if that is actually reported ? Also what Narain decides to do . If we do add a transfer for 2015 that would mean , Narain is going to remain a Verbal for 2016 , until he signs a NLI , earliest that could happen would be early November . Still can hope Narain could talk Humphries into giving Aztecs an opportunity to recruit him . Plus major importance trying to get Bailey . Recruiting battles are only going to get more difficult as so many of the PAC schools have gotten even better at recruiting , plus the Zags
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Post by Gundo on Jun 5, 2015 7:38:32 GMT -8
Agree that is what I said , and Coach Fisher , "we need guys that can score the basketball - Scorers " . Also agree that all the regular transfers are guys that we are going to need to wait until the end of 2016 or possibly 2017 to see what production they are going to add to their teams . Same with others , will be interesting to hear who the "one for sure transfer the coaches are still pursuing " or if that is actually reported ? Also what Narain decides to do . If we do add a transfer for 2015 that would mean , Narain is going to remain a Verbal for 2016 , until he signs a NLI , earliest that could happen would be early November . Still can hope Narain could talk Humphries into giving Aztecs an opportunity to recruit him . Plus major importance trying to get Bailey . Recruiting battles are only going to get more difficult as so many of the PAC schools have gotten even better at recruiting , plus the Zags CAL, USC, ASU and Udub are changing the recruiting So Cal landscape that was dominated by Zona and UCLA for years. UNLV and even UConn has always done well in the area, UT and Shaka will shake up the South West, the Zags and Aztecs will always go after the same 4-star guys which is going to put a lot of pressure on the staff. The grounds are shifting quickly.
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Post by sdcoug on Jun 5, 2015 8:32:04 GMT -8
Udub added Noah Dickerson yesterday, so that's going to be one very talented but extremely young team next year.
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Post by Gundo on Jun 5, 2015 10:45:48 GMT -8
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Post by sdcoug on Jun 5, 2015 10:53:36 GMT -8
Adding Will Conroy to his staff was a smart move. He'll really be able to relate to the youngsters & if anyone can get them to look past their egos it will be Conroy. Plus, he's known most of those Seattle kids for years...
But egos are egos, and 1 or 2 may bounced if they don't see themselves within the top 7 moving into '16-17.
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