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Post by docmm on Jan 28, 2015 10:27:22 GMT -8
For all the old-timers that remember Myron Epps, we're seeing a rampant resuscitation of his worst basketball habit. Someone is alone momentarily under the basket with the ball and instead of IMMEDIATELY going up with it, they take a dribble and by the time they then go up, someone is there to block it or foul them and with our FT shooting, it's often almost like a turnover. Allen, Choll, Shepard and Spencer do it a lot. JJ also but not as often. It seems to happen at least 3-4 times a game now. I'm sure the film gets stopped when it happens and the coaches tell them not to do it but it continues.
It also seems to me that if a player on a team makes a really stupid or selfish play during a game, many of the old-school coaches; Knight, Beheim, Coach K, Pitino, Huggins etc will often immediately take that player out at the next possible time. Behavior modification works a whole lot better with immediate negative feedback. Winston would have come out a couple times last night.
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Post by uncledougy on Jan 28, 2015 12:13:35 GMT -8
I too hate it when a player brings the ball down under the hoop. I see it a lot, never understood where the "put back" went. Most of the time the ball gets poked away as soon as it drops below the shoulders. It's hard to not bring it down every time, but the put back is nice.
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Post by douchey1 on Jan 28, 2015 12:32:33 GMT -8
Our bigs are awful at holding onto the ball
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Post by longtimebooster on Jan 28, 2015 12:43:04 GMT -8
Drives me insane. No need really to gather yourself. Just go up strong. It's only a 1-foot shot. Mike Mackell used to do that all the time, too. Drove me nuts.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 13:01:35 GMT -8
A skilled offensive big is something we never regularly seem to have. Aerick Sanders, Mohamed Abukar, Malcolm Thomas, Marucs Slaughter, Billy White, Ryan Amoroso. Those are probably the best offensive big men we have had in the Fisher era. Mo was more comfortable away from the hoop, Sanders became really good inside of 10 feet or so (but it took him a LONG time to develop). Amo was maybe the most complete on offense as far as inside and outside game. Malcolm, Billy and Marcus all had their moments but for the most part were opportunistic scorers who thrived in transition and off of putbacks.
As far as getting the ball and quickly putting it in the basket without getting ripped in the paint, Billy White is the best we have had. His career 60% (something around there) field goal shooting speaks to that. He was great around the rim and was insanely quick off the floor, but it was late in his career before he developed a steady and reliable post game.
The reality is a skilled post player is extremely hard to find, and most take up to 3 years or so to really develop. With our staff's emphasis on defense, finding an elite post defender who happens to be good on offense also will almost never happen - those guys end up in Kentucky uniforms and are in college for 2 years, tops. Our best bet is finding the next tier down and hoping they develop over time, kind of like Billy White or Aerick Sanders.
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Post by breaztec on Jan 28, 2015 13:02:06 GMT -8
That was part of my point on the inside game. Chol gets stripped all the time. The bigs have weak hands.
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Post by sdsustoner on Jan 28, 2015 13:37:46 GMT -8
This!
All of them are terrible at this. It makes me yell profanities at my TV, scaring my poor dog.
Our 5s are the worst offenders at this in Chol and Spencer. There are so many easy dunks they turn into a steal, blocked or missed shot. Winston too. What is that guy's aversion to dunking?
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Post by gigglyforshrigley on Jan 28, 2015 13:40:17 GMT -8
This! All of them are terrible at this. It makes me yell profanities at my TV, scaring my poor dog. Our 5s are the worst offenders at this in Chol and Spencer. There are so many easy dunks they turn into a steal, blocked or missed shot. Winston too. What is that guy's aversion to dunking? Don't forget DA. He gets stripped every time he tries to drive. I counted, and he was stripped for sure 4 times last night. I like the kid but he's gotta start tucking it when he gathers the ball or something. It shouldn't happen that much |
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Post by adammclane on Jan 28, 2015 13:42:50 GMT -8
I think this is an adjustment we need to make. I don't think that we have weak hands but I'm fairly confident that teams have noticed we are sloppy on drives and close to poke it out or strip.
If we were shooting better we could alleviate it by kicking the ball out, which would in turn create more space in the paint. Instead, you'll notice teams tend to crowd the paint which makes it harder to get to the rim.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jan 28, 2015 13:45:04 GMT -8
Last night Chol tried a dribble under the basket after a rebound and lost the ball. As he was doing that, someone a few rows away shouted; "Don't put it on the floor!"
AzWm
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Post by aztecdan8 on Jan 28, 2015 14:05:00 GMT -8
Just posted on this earlier on another thread. It's a terrible habit, we do it a lot, and it almost always doesn't go well.
Skylar is probably the worst offender, Chol does it too much, Winston also does it a lot, JJO too.
Similarly, sometimes they don't dribble, but instead of holding the ball high and going up to shoot, they'll bring the ball down and the other team starts grabbing and punching at it, usually with a good deal if success.
I am forever yelling at my tv, "QUIT DRIBBLING THE BALL!!! JUST PUT IT RIGHT UP!!!" Scares the heck out if my dogs. Usually my face is in my hands immediately after, with me mumbling ... " why? Why?! WHY!!??"
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Post by aztecdan8 on Jan 28, 2015 14:15:32 GMT -8
Last night Chol tried a dribble under the basket after a rebound and lost the ball. As he was doing that, someone a few rows away shouted; "Don't put it on the floor!" AzWm Classic. That would have probably been me and my big mouth if I was sitting anywhere within ear shot. Which reminds me... Do you realize how lucky you that reside in SD are to be able to have season tickets and go to virtually every game? Im quite envious. I live in the Bay Area, can and do go to FSU, SJSU.. Reno if a weekend. I try to fly down for a game or two, which uis challenging and costly. I would love to be able to have a transport machine that could whisk me back and forth in moments so I could go to every game. Those that can and do go to every game, remember to count yourselves quite fortunate. |
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Post by aztec619 on Jan 28, 2015 14:16:58 GMT -8
For all the old-timers that remember Myron Epps, we're seeing a rampant resuscitation of his worst basketball habit. Someone is alone momentarily under the basket with the ball and instead of IMMEDIATELY going up with it, they take a dribble and by the time they then go up, someone is there to block it or foul them and with our FT shooting, it's often almost like a turnover. Allen, Choll, Shepard and Spencer do it a lot. JJ also but not as often. It seems to happen at least 3-4 times a game now. I'm sure the film gets stopped when it happens and the coaches tell them not to do it but it continues. It also seems to me that if a player on a team makes a really stupid or selfish play during a game, many of the old-school coaches; Knight, Beheim, Coach K, Pitino, Huggins etc will often immediately take that player out at the next possible time. Behavior modification works a whole lot better with immediate negative feedback. Winston would have come out a couple times last night. I don't remember Epps doing that so I'll take your word doc. But I fully agree with you that you don't need to take a dribble. Just go up strong and they would be good. We are taught that in high school that you don't need a dribble as it gives the D more time to to block/steal/etc. Maybe they never learned that? I wonder if Epps is teaching that in his academy right now? I think it's called Aztec basketball academy too. Real cool dude. |
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Post by standiego on Jan 28, 2015 14:32:16 GMT -8
All our guys Dribble way too much . It starts with the guards and the team in general . Watch how many times guys get open and the guards are not looking for open guys to pass to . Most teams zone us . You do not beat it by dribbling . We need to pass , more and quicker . AQ last night ZERO assists in over 32 minutes of play . It sure seems as the guys down low are not used to seeing passes come to them . It is not excuse for them , who should not hold the ball down below their waste . Maybe try a few drills where they can not dribble only pass or shoot if close enough . Stop dribbling and start passing , sharing the basketball . Game plan was suppose to be at least 1 pass inside , but that did not always happen .
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Post by merkarrand on Jan 28, 2015 14:35:33 GMT -8
All cans see this..Why can't the coaches??
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Post by Azthetic on Jan 28, 2015 14:40:02 GMT -8
I recently read in an ESPN magazine article that even catch and shoot jumpers are a minimum of 10% more likely to go in than those who use 1 dribble or more to get their shot off. The article points to the success of the Atlanta Hawks this season and their 3 point shots.
Think about Shrigley's 3's over the past 2 seasons. When he catches in rhythm and fires, he is more likely to make. It can even go back to Rahon and how deadly he was in his first season with us in 2010-11 as a spot up 3 shooter vs what he became his last 2 seasons when he tried to do more with the ball, create his own shot and dribble drive to the hoop.
I'm trying to think of how this applies to Shep. He may benefit from one dribble to the elbow of the key and nailing the shot.
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Post by Pasadenaztec on Jan 28, 2015 14:40:15 GMT -8
Just posted on this earlier on another thread. It's a terrible habit, we do it a lot, and it almost always doesn't go well. Skylar is probably the worst offender, Chol does it too much, Winston also does it a lot, JJO too. Similarly, sometimes they don't dribble, but instead of holding the ball high and going up to shoot, they'll bring the ball down and the other team starts grabbing and punching at it, usually with a good deal if success. I am forever yelling at my tv, "QUIT DRIBBLING THE BALL!!! JUST PUT IT RIGHT UP!!!" Scares the heck out if my dogs. Usually my face is in my hands immediately after, with me mumbling ... " why? Why?! WHY!!??" They should all be forced to watch old films of Kevin McHale....he was a master at getting offensive rebounds and never bringing the ball back down below his head. He'd get the rebound and before anybody had a chance to block it or strip it, he'd quickly put it back in for an easy basket. |
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Post by missiontrails on Jan 28, 2015 15:23:47 GMT -8
All cans see this..Why can't the coaches?? I've finally figured you and your agenda out - you want the head coaching job. Good luck with that....... Or am I all wrong, and you're a jilted Wolverine fan? |
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Post by northcountymike on Jan 28, 2015 15:56:13 GMT -8
A skilled offensive big is something we never regularly seem to have. Aerick Sanders, Mohamed Abukar, Malcolm Thomas, Marucs Slaughter, Billy White, Ryan Amoroso. Those are probably the best offensive big men we have had in the Fisher era. Mo was more comfortable away from the hoop, Sanders became really good inside of 10 feet or so (but it took him a LONG time to develop). Amo was maybe the most complete on offense as far as inside and outside game. Malcolm, Billy and Marcus all had their moments but for the most part were opportunistic scorers who thrived in transition and off of putbacks. As far as getting the ball and quickly putting it in the basket without getting ripped in the paint, Billy White is the best we have had. His career 60% (something around there) field goal shooting speaks to that. He was great around the rim and was insanely quick off the floor, but it was late in his career before he developed a steady and reliable post game. The reality is a skilled post player is extremely hard to find, and most take up to 3 years or so to really develop. With our staff's emphasis on defense, finding an elite post defender who happens to be good on offense also will almost never happen - those guys end up in Kentucky uniforms and are in college for 2 years, tops. Our best bet is finding the next tier down and hoping they develop over time, kind of like Billy White or Aerick Sanders. Excellent point about Sanders. He was one of my favorite players. A rebounding "demon," he didn't really develop a consistent offensive game until his senior year. Billy White was a good one too, but he was the most bipolar player I've ever seen at State and would just disappear for stretches of games. But boy when he was on his game, he was pretty much unstoppable (at Gonzaga, etc.). |
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Post by northcountymike on Jan 28, 2015 15:58:47 GMT -8
This! All of them are terrible at this. It makes me yell profanities at my TV, scaring my poor dog. Our 5s are the worst offenders at this in Chol and Spencer. There are so many easy dunks they turn into a steal, blocked or missed shot. Winston too. What is that guy's aversion to dunking? Don't forget DA. He gets stripped every time he tries to drive. I counted, and he was stripped for sure 4 times last night. I like the kid but he's gotta start tucking it when he gathers the ball or something. It shouldn't happen that much Amen. I wish the coaching staff would get on these guys. DA was bad last night, as was WS (this has been a common problem), and Spencer and Chol have hands of stone. |
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