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Post by sdaztecs92115 on Dec 18, 2014 16:23:54 GMT -8
F you original poster. I called it from the beginning that we were in trouble with Kell at pg among other things. ^What an intelligent responce. This guy is so internet tough!
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Post by legkick on Dec 18, 2014 16:48:53 GMT -8
Never said you can't have an opinion, it's just ridiculous when posters take it too far. Frustration is one thing but people here don't have to be *&^/$ about it. You're not going to get through to that poster. You can tell that one is a *&^/$ just by the avatar and the relentless JJ bashing.
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Post by Luchador El Guerrero Azteca on Dec 18, 2014 17:06:33 GMT -8
Tired of the same old square, herd posters that think that If you're not Steve Fisher, Brian Dutcher or Justin Hutson you are not allowed to post your thoughts. Also, if your not worshiping and singing praises to our coaches your a bandwagon fan, you don't know anything about basketball and you are an idiot. Get a clue! Lots of small minded people around here, it's an internet message board, get over it. Regardless of being right or wrong, people are entitled to have an opinion, express themselves or just vent, that's whats this place is for. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, eh?
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Post by Luchador El Guerrero Azteca on Dec 18, 2014 17:08:59 GMT -8
F you original poster. I called it from the beginning that we were in trouble with Kell at pg among other things. Well, I called it years ago that despite people calling for Fish to be replaced, I said that he should be extended. Does that make me a MOTO too?
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Post by oldie on Dec 18, 2014 17:23:47 GMT -8
I don't think the players read or coaches read these posts. It just gives us a chance to bitch and offer advise to nobody. That's one facet of sports at any level. Sure wish the head recruiting coach would see if johnie dee has any time left. NM had twin towers, so why not spencer and chol, play u'u more for 3 pointers instead of shrig, move ws to forward with jj, kick polee in the butt to wake him up, find someone on the dance team to be pg, have the show wear paper bags over their heads, and have coach Fisher have a hold a meeting to explain that the object of the game is to have a 6'10" player jump high enough to put the ball thru the hoop from 3-4 feet away. just as wacky as some of the other "coaching" ideas.
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Post by Luchador El Guerrero Azteca on Dec 18, 2014 17:35:55 GMT -8
I don't think the players read or coaches read these posts. It just gives us a chance to bitch and offer advise to nobody. That's one facet of sports at any level. Sure wish the head recruiting coach would see if johnie dee has any time left. NM had twin towers, so why not spencer and chol, play u'u more for 3 pointers instead of shrig, move ws to forward with jj, kick polee in the butt to wake him up, find someone on the dance team to be pg, have the show wear paper bags over their heads, and have coach Fisher have a hold a meeting to explain that the object of the game is to have a 6'10" player jump high enough to put the ball thru the hoop from 3-4 feet away. just as wacky as some of the other "coaching" ideas. Over the years we've gotten direct feedback that some do, as do some parents. They shouldn't. It doesn't excuse douchy behavior or things said about players and coaches. We should be better than that.
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Post by sdcoug on Dec 18, 2014 17:41:46 GMT -8
Both, unless you actually back it up with relevant stats. He's the 2nd most efficient offensive player on our team thus far (behind only AQ), one of our best passers, a solid defender & someone who comes up with key plays at key moments. The coaches see this in him, as do many of the fans.
If you're saying he shouldn't start to ease his minutes but should be on the court at crunch time, that seems defendable. But simply saying he should not start tends to imply you don't think he should play much, period. That conclusion may be a reach on my part, so sorry if I miss interpreted your initial quote.
The Real Oracle appreciates your thoughtful response, but could you define "efficient"? Taking into account minutes, pts, off rebounds, turn overs, and assists The Real Oracle ranks JJ as the 2nd least "efficient" starter (Spencer as the least "efficient"), and both Chol and Quinn are ranked ahead of JJ. The Real Oracle Out As measured & tracked by Kenpom, and agree on AQ. Here are a couple definitions:
Team Adjusted efficiency: Raw offensive efficiency is points scored per 100 offensive possessions. The adjusted version adjusts for the quality of opposing defenses, the site of each game, and when each game was played (recent games get more weight). Defensive efficiency is points allowed per 100 defensive possessions, adjusted for the same things.
Player Offensive rating (ORtg): A measure of personal offensive efficiency developed by Dean Oliver. The formula is very complicated, but accurate. For a detailed explanation, buy Basketball on Paper.
I think Kenpom.com does a great job in analyzing performance stats. By their measure AQ has a ORtg of 109.4 & JJ is next at 102.6. Among all MWC players who have played at least 40% of their team's minutes, AQ ranks 18th in the conference & JJ 28th. Kell (99.8) & Polee (98.7) are next. CHol doesn't play enough to qualify, but if he did he'd be among the lowest on our team.
Looking at other stats & how JJ stacks up (among 9 rotation guys): - eFG% - 47.1% (4th - #2 behind anyone who's taken 5+ shots/game) - TS% - 50.1% (4th - including Allen who rarely shoots; #2 behind anyone who's taken 5+ shots/game) - OR% - 9.1% (4th - including behind Allen) - DR% - 11.7% (4th - only WS is higher among non Centers) - AR% - 14.5% (2nd, unless you also include Shrigs) - TO% - 20.6% (5th worst - mid team, 6th if you also include Shrigs) - Steal% - 2.8% (3rd behind Polee & Allen) - Raw shooting % - 63% from line, 47% from inside arc & 33% from 3PT
Overall, wouldn't say he's a master of any 1 skill but he's easily among the better players in virtually every statistical category. On this fairly weak offensive team that puts him among the most effective overall.
JJ definitely has his shortcomings & weaknesses, but he also is clearly one of if not THE most savvy players on our team. He comes up big in big situations. I don't think we beat BYU or Utah without him.
Easily the most underappreciated player.
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Post by Azthetic on Dec 18, 2014 17:43:57 GMT -8
Ladies and Gentlemen, this is AztecMisery. Misery loves company. If we were 10 - 0 someone would complain about free t-shirts, playing time, or my personal pet peeve - people leaving games early.
You can't stop a meltdown here after the current run of performances, you can only hope to contain it, which some of you are admirably trying to do. Kudos.
Moving on to the task at hand....
Yes, the team can get it together and improve, however a quarter of the season is passed and we now have a sample size of who this team is and what needs to be worked on.
It should be fixable (show the tape against BYU 15,000 times to the guys re: ball movement). Defense creates our offense and it is beautiful to watch when we are there. We seem to make the bunnies when in transition. Everything else flows when we have that mojo going.
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Post by standiego on Dec 18, 2014 17:51:40 GMT -8
the fact is we shot 53% 2PT FG last night and 20 % 3Pt . So the regular 2 PT shots were working and even creating some fouls . But the 3 point shooting was not working , go with the things that are working for you and limit the things that are not. We recruit athletic guys that can run the floor , really elevate , can drive to the basket . Why not use their skills to the max . We do not recruit the basic 3 point shooter, so why not be who you are and attack the basket with authority and not keep trying threes . The other teams scout us , they are going to keep giving us those shots because stats show we do not hit those shots ,even if they are a good look - 20 % is not going to win many games . Or is 18 turnovers 11 in the first half - yet we did not take a time out until the last 2 minutes of the first half . We did not even try either of our two true PG's - Zabo or Williams . Need to play smarter , not harder . Better shot selection . This was a winnable game ,that the team is going to wish it had won .
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Post by sdcoug on Dec 18, 2014 17:52:19 GMT -8
I didn't realize ao many SDSU fans were basketball coaches. It's funny how there are so many idiotic posts here about who should be playing, who shouldn't be playing, who should get more/less minutes, who sucks, blah, blah, blah. Let the real coaches do their job. Winston said it best last night, "We've been living off our hype from last year." Let's allow the coaches and players figure it out. If the season doesn't end you want it to. Then complain at the end when there is a full body of work to look at. I personally don't have an issue with people criticizing the players &/or coaches as long as they back it up with a lucid argument (e.g. stats, actual references to game moments, etc.). It's what this type of forum provides - an opportunity to offer differing opinions.
What I have an issue with are people who make a negative statement about a player/coach without offering any basis for their conclusions and more so, those who make personal attacks towards other posters simply because they disagree with them.
I really hoped this board would be above those, but it basically is the same as many message boards unfortunately. The "Snarky" attitude is prevalent everywhere.
None of us coach this team (hopefully) but you don't have to coach it to provide an opinion about the direction of the program/team & even an opinion about a player's performance. Some tend to usually be negative (even in positive situations); others usually positive (even after a loss); while some vary and/or are down the middle.
But some people take it WAY too far, and it's usually about attitude rather than their actual opinion. If nothing else, hopefully people can RESPECT other opinions.
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Post by wakelaunch on Dec 18, 2014 17:54:19 GMT -8
In reality what you produce during game time is what counts on the score board , plus a W or L . Coaches can watch player M hit 7 of 10 threes in practice then go 1 for 5 , or 0 of 7 in a game. They can also observe that we are scoring well when we attack the basket. and suggest we continue to run those plays and limit the threes . Work on breaking their press during practice but then see the guys mess up when the game starts . Unfortunately what a player does during the 6 hours of practice does not always translate to what happens in a game and you need to make adjustments. But should be able to see we are athletic do things that enable them to use our skills . Our 3 point shooting has not been consistent so limit it and players that rely on it . Also give Pope more PT . We need guys that have played PG against a press , not learning on the job training. We were fine against the press. The failure of hitting wide open 3s when we broke the press, allowed the press to continue and actually be intensified. If we hit a few of those 3s, the press would not have been nearly as successful because they would be forced to back off. [/quote Nail.. Head.. Or making easy slam dunks or layups off the press. Winston missed an dunk. We didn't have to shoot the three. Polee should be cutting and moving with the ball. I saw a few times where the offense just stands around. We don't have the luxury with this team. NO XTHAMES TO bail us out on a stagnant offense. Move, set screens, motion high/ low.
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Post by The Honey Badger on Dec 18, 2014 18:09:09 GMT -8
Tired of the same old square, herd posters that think that If you're not Steve Fisher, Brian Dutcher or Justin Hutson you are not allowed to post your thoughts. Also, if your not worshiping and singing praises to our coaches your a bandwagon fan, you don't know anything about basketball and you are an idiot. Get a clue! Lots of small minded people around here, it's an internet message board, get over it. Regardless of being right or wrong, people are entitled to have an opinion, express themselves or just vent, that's whats this place is for. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, eh? And of course, the square head takes offense about a post directed at square heads.
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Post by Luchador El Guerrero Azteca on Dec 18, 2014 19:46:17 GMT -8
Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, eh? And of course, the square head takes offense about a post directed at square heads. Lol
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Dec 18, 2014 20:43:18 GMT -8
I didn't bother reading all of these posts but I got the message that we should all: STHU! Thanks.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Dec 18, 2014 23:01:42 GMT -8
I believe that SDSU has great potential this year, but how soon all that potential will mature is a big question mark. We definitely miss X Thames and there seems to be nobody on the team who is likely to fill his shoes any time soon. However, more experience is going to make the team better. How much better compared with the stronger MWC teams is unclear.
If I had to make a prediction, I'd say that the 20 or more wins per year streak will continue this season, perhaps easily. March Madness? If we again reach the Sweet Sixteen, I will be very, very satisfied.
Fish and staff need to work hard to recruit excellent shooters who can be coached up to the level of defense this program is known for.
AzWm
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Post by gigglyforshrigley on Dec 19, 2014 6:23:54 GMT -8
I think JJO is overappreciated by Fisher, and underappreciated by the fans. I like him as a player but I think he gets too many minutes. With all the talent on this roster we should be giving someone else some of his minutes
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Post by therealoracle on Dec 19, 2014 7:10:31 GMT -8
The Real Oracle appreciates your thoughtful response, but could you define "efficient"? Taking into account minutes, pts, off rebounds, turn overs, and assists The Real Oracle ranks JJ as the 2nd least "efficient" starter (Spencer as the least "efficient"), and both Chol and Quinn are ranked ahead of JJ. The Real Oracle Out As measured & tracked by Kenpom, and agree on AQ. Here are a couple definitions:
Team Adjusted efficiency: Raw offensive efficiency is points scored per 100 offensive possessions. The adjusted version adjusts for the quality of opposing defenses, the site of each game, and when each game was played (recent games get more weight). Defensive efficiency is points allowed per 100 defensive possessions, adjusted for the same things.
Player Offensive rating (ORtg): A measure of personal offensive efficiency developed by Dean Oliver. The formula is very complicated, but accurate. For a detailed explanation, buy Basketball on Paper.
I think Kenpom.com does a great job in analyzing performance stats. By their measure AQ has a ORtg of 109.4 & JJ is next at 102.6. Among all MWC players who have played at least 40% of their team's minutes, AQ ranks 18th in the conference & JJ 28th. Kell (99.8) & Polee (98.7) are next. CHol doesn't play enough to qualify, but if he did he'd be among the lowest on our team.
Looking at other stats & how JJ stacks up (among 9 rotation guys): - eFG% - 47.1% (4th - #2 behind anyone who's taken 5+ shots/game) - TS% - 50.1% (4th - including Allen who rarely shoots; #2 behind anyone who's taken 5+ shots/game) - OR% - 9.1% (4th - including behind Allen) - DR% - 11.7% (4th - only WS is higher among non Centers) - AR% - 14.5% (2nd, unless you also include Shrigs) - TO% - 20.6% (5th worst - mid team, 6th if you also include Shrigs) - Steal% - 2.8% (3rd behind Polee & Allen) - Raw shooting % - 63% from line, 47% from inside arc & 33% from 3PT
Overall, wouldn't say he's a master of any 1 skill but he's easily among the better players in virtually every statistical category. On this fairly weak offensive team that puts him among the most effective overall.
JJ definitely has his shortcomings & weaknesses, but he also is clearly one of if not THE most savvy players on our team. He comes up big in big situations. I don't think we beat BYU or Utah without him.
Easily the most underappreciated player.
Joking aside, The Real Oracle appreciates the insight. The Real Oracle Out
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Post by gocoaztec on Dec 19, 2014 7:12:47 GMT -8
In regards to the OP: This is THE board for Aztec fans, but it's up to William and Erik to decide what it will be. Some believe that it is the place to come to be extremely negative towards our programs, players and coaches. I am not talking about honest disagreement or disappointment, I'm talking about personal attacks and general nastiness that offers no intelligence or insight and in no way makes you feel good about being an Aztec. They believe that these type of posts are their right and are what the board is for. There is another group of fans who come to AMesa (often not for long) to enjoy the camaraderie of fellow Aztec fans, to learn more about Aztec sports, players, and coaches, and to generally support our school, players, coaches and programs.
I came to the Cincinnati thread for that purpose, but left by half time. We weren't playing great, but we were in the game against a good school 3000 miles away from home, but the criticism had become so nasty and prevalent that I shut off my computer and watched the game "by myself" instead of with my fellow Aztec "fans".
The constantly critical posters drive the other fans away from AMesa, just as they drove me away from the Cincinnati thread. I enjoy life too much, and care about my school too much, to voluntarily subject myself to such negativity. An earlier poster wrote that our players "should NEVER come here". That is a sad, but true statement about AMesa.
Being a moderator is a thankless job, but it's ultimately up to William and Erik to decide where to draw the line regarding loyal opposition vs. anti-Aztec poison. Their current position is allowing AMesa to be "the place where negative Aztec fans can gather to be as negative as they want".
It's their board and their choice.
Go Aztecs!
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Post by MarshallU on Dec 19, 2014 8:34:47 GMT -8
Oh ok, so we just won't post anything smh
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Post by MarshallU on Dec 19, 2014 8:37:04 GMT -8
F you original poster. I called it from the beginning that we were in trouble with Kell at pg among other things. ^What an intelligent responce. This guy is so internet tough! yep! most of the "coaches" here are typical internet tough guys... hiding behind the keyboard.
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