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Post by insider on Sept 30, 2012 17:12:46 GMT -8
Chuck Long was fired, "Insider", because he was 9-27 as a coach. I don't care what the schedule is/was, you play who you play. Schedules are set years in advance in some cases, you act like we can go schedule LSU tomorrow. Doesn't quite work like that. The team has had no fan support far beyond just this year, but we probably lead the country in armchair coaches complaining about anything they can find to complain about. Chuck Long was fired because boosters wanted him gone, they didn't plan on firing him till they got money from boosters. SDSU has purposely set up the schedules for years so it can be as easy as possible, Rocky clearly has the program going backwords, beating teams like Army, UNM, FCS games should be gimees and SDSU hasn't schedule any of the opposites against LSU. Rocky has been a disaster ever since the Washington State win. Oh really this program has had poor fan support before this year? I wonder why that is? Maybe if they put a good product on the field every once in a while people would watch, what a novel concept. I think what we lead the country in is fans who are perfectly fine being mediocre just because we have been worse. Oh Rocky Long isn't Chuck Long so he shouldn't be fired! Oh he worked a miracle at UNM by going under 500 how great! Rocky has a winning record because we play a bunch of not even top 100 teams how great!
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Post by longtimesdsufan on Sept 30, 2012 17:34:11 GMT -8
Let me see now: Our QB left for the Pros. Our pass rushing LB left for the Pros Our offensive line graduated. We have 10 returning seniors (and 2 transfers) of which I believe 3 or 4 were walk-ons Brady quit and took the star defensive lineman with him. We lost to San Jose, who may not lose another game this year and they player Stanford almost even We lost to Washington, and they just beat Stanford We lost to Fresno, at Fresno...and they are better than many of you are willing to give credit The kicker gets kicked off the team and most likely lost us the game against San Jose. Did the coach throw the interceptions?
So the best solution all of you have is to fire the coach? This team has lots of problems, and to think that Brady left everything in good shape is foolish.
A new coach will say... it take 5 years to build a team and they will start over. So if you want to wait 5 more years....
Maybe we wait 2 more years and see what we have.
But if you really want to fire Rocky, we will need someone to come up with about $2 million.
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 30, 2012 17:53:19 GMT -8
Longtime, please don't enter the thread with actual logic.
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Post by uncledougy on Sept 30, 2012 18:21:01 GMT -8
Let me see now: Our QB left for the Pros. Our pass rushing LB left for the Pros Our offensive line graduated. We have 10 returning seniors (and 2 transfers) of which I believe 3 or 4 were walk-ons Brady quit and took the star defensive lineman with him. We lost to San Jose, who may not lose another game this year and they player Stanford almost even We lost to Washington, and they just beat Stanford We lost to Fresno, at Fresno...and they are better than many of you are willing to give credit The kicker gets kicked off the team and most likely lost us the game against San Jose. Did the coach throw the interceptions? So the best solution all of you have is to fire the coach? This team has lots of problems, and to think that Brady left everything in good shape is foolish. A new coach will say... it take 5 years to build a team and they will start over. So if you want to wait 5 more years.... Maybe we wait 2 more years and see what we have. But if you really want to fire Rocky, we will need someone to come up with about $2 million. We can see what has happened in the past.....it's what we are expecting in the future that is at issue. I don't see things improving in its current state. There will for surely be a rebuilding period. The longer it goes like this the longer it will take to turn the ship around. The sooner the better, if it were up to me, it would start yesterday......for everyone's sake. What bothers me is the writing is on the wall and nobody in the ad's office cares about it yet. They will have to wait for it to get so bad, their decision won't be second guessed. By that time we'll be 6 to 8 years behind. It is painfully obvious a new coach is needed. Play the rest of the season with an interim coach and start the process of finding someone that is young enough to Identify with the players/recruits and can market the team to students.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 18:22:28 GMT -8
If we lose to UNLV, Rocky will quit. So if the result is we hire what would presumably be a considerably better staff, it would be well worth it. If asked to nominate the most perspicacious poster on AztecMesa poster, I would nominate you. (With apologies to a number of other very worthy challengers.) However, this post of yours is way off the mark. If Rocky goes, whether by firing or retirement, we will of course have a replacement. Why should we assume that the replacement staff will be "considerably better"? Thanks for expanding my vocabulary and for the compliment. Not sure if it's deserved but as I've admitted before, I was of the opinion we needed to give Ted Tollner another shot in 2000. JYP, SteveEM and Bob Forsythe were among those still around who disagreed. Boy were they right and boy was I wrong about that. Juggling coaching staffs too often is not good. However, it's worse to wait too long to show a failing staff the door. SDSU let Ted hang around for two years longer than it should have - mainly because Bay so stupidly extended his contract for ten years after the 1998 season - and we let Chuck hang around for one year too long and would have let him stay for a year beyond that had a bunch of us boosters not demanded a change. As I've also said before, I think Rocky is a class guy and there isn't a chance in the world he will try to bleed every possible nickel out of SDSU like two-faced Chuck did. I should also say that a loss to UNLV won't alone mean he will quit. However, if we lose to UNLV, we are likely to finish below .500 and I think that will do it. Rocky knows he can find another DC job somewhere and as EM has said, you can see in his eyes he isn't having any fun right now. With regard to a replacement, you're correct we can't say a new staff would be any better. However, there is much reason to think it would be. For one thing, BE TV money will give us considerably more to spend so we can afford experienced coaches all around. Also, SDSU learned with the Hoke hire how valuable it can be to use a combination of the Florida recruiting firm and a committee of former players to vet candidates. So unlike with the Chuck hire, I see no way SDSU will ever again let the AD unilaterally make the selection. And if Rocky leaves, I plan on writing Hirshman to make sure he knows that. If he checks Weber's old files on season ticket holders, he'll find a few of mine to Weber from that former time. All of which Weber went to the trouble to send brief personal responses too - unlike that idiot Schemmel who ignored the great majority of stuff I sent him.
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Post by halfnip on Sept 30, 2012 20:06:11 GMT -8
Monty and a number of others should step back, take a deep breath, and take another look at our situation. First, Rocky is going to be here at least through the 2013 season; not even if we end up with only 2 or 3 wins this year. I think that outcome is highly unlikely, by the way. We might, worst case, win only 4 or 5, but I would, contrary to me usual practice, be willing to bet a couple of bucks that we will win at least 4 more games. We still have to play UNLV, Colorado State, Hawaii, Air Force, and Wyoming. If you cannot see at least three wins from that list, I don't know what to say. As I said, I would be willing to bet that we win four of those five. That would give us a 6-6 record, admittedly very, very disappointing. Still, there is no way in hell that this school is going to fire a coach after just two seasons with a winning record (14-11). Michigan, yes. SDSU, no. Second, though right now things don't look good, this season is far from over. Seven wins may be the most we can hope for now, but a 7-5 season would not be bad. Progress is what we should be looking for. At this point the team, at least on defense, seems to be regressing. Why is that so? Some fans will cry, "It's the coaching!" They may be correct. Or it may be that we were hurt badly on the defensive line by graduation and simply do not have players ready to step in a perform at the same level we saw last year. I have long said that our recruiting has to improve. Check out the best teams in the land and you will see that they are blessed with dozens of 3 and 4 star players with an occasional 5-star guy. We are, to this point, getting only a handful of 3s and no 4s. Maybe a big name coach could improve on that, but the chances, even if we had the money, of hiring such a man are not good. Just because a nationally known coach takes over is no guarantee that the program will suddenly take off like a rocket. It didn't work for John Robinson at UNLV and it didn't work for Rich Rodriquez at Michigan. Conclusion; as much as it galls the average fan, at least a bit of patience is required. Plus a bit of prayer. Rocky is the HC and will be the HC for a while longer. AzWm If you said 7-5 with this schedule at the beginning of the season folks would've laughed in your face. What's changed? The teams we played are actually better than we thought? Or are we worse than we thought? If the latter, how do you justify it as progress and therefore, acceptable? I'm honestly curious here..
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Post by insider on Sept 30, 2012 20:15:06 GMT -8
Longtime, please don't enter the thread with actual logic. He didn't.
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Post by insider on Sept 30, 2012 20:23:00 GMT -8
Let me see now: Our QB left for the Pros. Our pass rushing LB left for the Pros Our offensive line graduated. We have 10 returning seniors (and 2 transfers) of which I believe 3 or 4 were walk-ons Brady quit and took the star defensive lineman with him. We lost to San Jose, who may not lose another game this year and they player Stanford almost even We lost to Washington, and they just beat Stanford We lost to Fresno, at Fresno...and they are better than many of you are willing to give credit The kicker gets kicked off the team and most likely lost us the game against San Jose. Did the coach throw the interceptions? So the best solution all of you have is to fire the coach? This team has lots of problems, and to think that Brady left everything in good shape is foolish. A new coach will say... it take 5 years to build a team and they will start over. So if you want to wait 5 more years.... Maybe we wait 2 more years and see what we have. But if you really want to fire Rocky, we will need someone to come up with about $2 million. Ok lets start from the top Yes losing Lindley hurt he was underrated by the posters on the board. That being said they replaced him with a senior, if you expect a dropoff it should come from a underclassmen like Dingwell and Jeffries (who I still think is the best QB on the team). Losing Burris hurt, but the rest of the defense leaving but Long were basically trimming the fat. Offensive Line is not the problem. Young teams can beat mediocre ones. Yes, Washington is a decent team (though Price has seemingly taken a step backwords), the problem wasn't the end result but the process. Rocky Long made terrible decisions throughout that game. Fresno is not good, they have put together two straight poor games and were just lucky SDSU didn't know it was legal to force a punt. No the kicker did not lose the game, the defense in the 4th quarter and kick coverage did. Ad hominem attack, never stops.
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Post by sjsu1forever on Sept 30, 2012 20:25:39 GMT -8
If you cant beat current WAC teams or the new WAC teams {Fresno St. for one) and I know you wont beat Nevada or Hawaii, can you start to imagine what it will be like playing in the Big East. JG
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 30, 2012 20:28:31 GMT -8
I didn't even need to get past your first point, insider. If you didn't expect a drop-off from the all time passing leader in school history and the MWC, well, then...no words come to mind. That being said, Katz is not the reason we're losing games, at least not the main reason. Oh wait, I did read "offensive line is not the problem" and had to laugh.....
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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 30, 2012 20:49:50 GMT -8
Let me see now: Our QB left for the Pros. Our pass rushing LB left for the Pros Our offensive line graduated. We have 10 returning seniors (and 2 transfers) of which I believe 3 or 4 were walk-ons Brady quit and took the star defensive lineman with him. We lost to San Jose, who may not lose another game this year and they player Stanford almost even We lost to Washington, and they just beat Stanford We lost to Fresno, at Fresno...and they are better than many of you are willing to give credit The kicker gets kicked off the team and most likely lost us the game against San Jose. Did the coach throw the interceptions? So the best solution all of you have is to fire the coach? This team has lots of problems, and to think that Brady left everything in good shape is foolish. A new coach will say... it take 5 years to build a team and they will start over. So if you want to wait 5 more years.... Maybe we wait 2 more years and see what we have. But if you really want to fire Rocky, we will need someone to come up with about $2 million. You have touched on what I think is the flaw in the thinking of those who want Rocky gone as soon as possible. Their statements indicate that they believe there is some magic head coach out there who would, if only given a chance, have the Aztecs in the Top=25 in nothing flat. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. This is simplistic thinking. A new coach might well improve the program, given time. But that's the problem; we are always starting over. No serious fan should be calling for Rocky's head at this time. At the end the season, perhaps. Too many things can happen between now and December. Let's see what happens and then draw conclusions. AzWm
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Post by myownwords on Sept 30, 2012 20:55:19 GMT -8
All I have seen is fallacies and just a refrain from you and LA and some others that 'he'll be back' that is all that anyone can come up with, an attack, a blatant fallacy, or just repeating that he'll be back SDSU is not going to fire Rocky Long this year, even if the Aztecs end up with only three or four wins. Do you disagree with that? If so, please justify your position with facts. I think I have posted, more than once, factors that support my contention that the school is going to stick with Rocky through 2013. Now, if you think that Rocky should be fired, fine. Such an opinion may be justified in a perfect world. But this is not Michigan or Kansas (a school with a great hoops program but a very poor one in football that gave Turner Gill only two years!). If your position is that the school should consider a change for 2013, your opinion may have merit. That's not going to happen, and I think it would be unwise to do so. I, myself, might have a different attitude if we end up at .500 or worse this year and do no better in the BE. But that is for the future. The present is what it is. Outside of discovering that Rocky is a member in good standing of the Honk if you think Jerry Sandusky is a good role model society, RL is going to be around for another year. And, as I have also opined, I will be surprised if we win fewer than 5 games this year. 5-7 is beyond disappointing, but it is certainly enough to prevent a school such as SDSU from firing a coach whose team went to a bowl just a year ago. So clarify your position. Do you thank that Rocky will be fired, or just should be. AzWm If Rocky is not fired (or doesn't step down on his own) by the end of the year, then Sterk should be fired.
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Post by myownwords on Sept 30, 2012 21:00:20 GMT -8
People need to drop this "sense of entitlement" complex. You're a fan, so what? That allows you to lob useless criticism? The team has very little actual fan support that goes to games. The defense is horrendous right now. Don't think that's lost on anyone. However, you're not going to fire a coach coming off a bowl game season who is 2-3. Get a grip, stop posting out of anger and frustration. As William said, take a breath. The difficulty with your defense is that Rocky has a very long record of...get this...mediocrity. It's what he produces in recruiting and coaching. I never wanted him hired in the first place and I don't him around to affect those here or those recruits who are thinking about us.
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Post by RiffelBooks on Sept 30, 2012 21:03:27 GMT -8
We're 2-3. We're not even halfway through the season. We're soon to be 4-3 and headed for a showdown at Nevada, which depends on the run to be successful -- and we're pretty good at stopping the run.
We're having arguments on this board we shouldn't be having until November. It's not like we're 0-5.
Longtime has valid points in that we have few seniors and blew the San Jose State game because of the kicking situation. The underclassmen will grow up and get better. Special teams are improving slowly.
If we're still losing games like this by November, fire away. But right now it's too early.
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Post by RiffelBooks on Sept 30, 2012 21:05:05 GMT -8
Mediocrity at New Mexico is like winning the Super Bowl for most people. ;D People need to drop this "sense of entitlement" complex. You're a fan, so what? That allows you to lob useless criticism? The team has very little actual fan support that goes to games. The defense is horrendous right now. Don't think that's lost on anyone. However, you're not going to fire a coach coming off a bowl game season who is 2-3. Get a grip, stop posting out of anger and frustration. As William said, take a breath. The difficulty with your defense is that Rocky has a very long record of...get this...mediocrity. It's what he produces in recruiting and coaching. I never wanted him hired in the first place and I don't him around to affect those here or those recruits who are thinking about us.
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Post by myownwords on Sept 30, 2012 21:06:11 GMT -8
Chuck Long was fired, "Insider", because he was 9-27 as a coach. I don't care what the schedule is/was, you play who you play. Schedules are set years in advance in some cases, you act like we can go schedule LSU tomorrow. Doesn't quite work like that. The team has had no fan support far beyond just this year, but we probably lead the country in armchair coaches complaining about anything they can find to complain about. We had growing fan support when Hoke was here and there was a definite "buzz". When Rocky took over all of that starting evaporting. You should ask yourself, "why?".
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Post by insider on Sept 30, 2012 21:32:23 GMT -8
I didn't even need to get past your first point, insider. If you didn't expect a drop-off from the all time passing leader in school history and the MWC, well, then...no words come to mind. That being said, Katz is not the reason we're losing games, at least not the main reason. Oh wait, I did read "offensive line is not the problem" and had to laugh..... Reading comprehension seems not to be your strong point. If the team expected regression at QB then get experience with the young QB, it doesn't make sense to go with a placeholder that is simply mediocre. Katz holds onto the ball way too long, hence the sack numbers, he gets happy feet. Look at the running game totals and tell me the offensive line has nothing to do with that. And yes the main reason we are losing games is because we have a pathetic defense, which is suppose to be our head coach's "strength".
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Post by MontezumaPhil on Oct 1, 2012 8:46:52 GMT -8
Chuck Long was fired, "Insider", because he was 9-27 as a coach. I don't care what the schedule is/was, you play who you play. Schedules are set years in advance in some cases, you act like we can go schedule LSU tomorrow. Doesn't quite work like that. The team has had no fan support far beyond just this year, but we probably lead the country in armchair coaches complaining about anything they can find to complain about. We had growing fan support when Hoke was here and there was a definite "buzz". When Rocky took over all of that starting evaporting. You should ask yourself, "why?". Exactly. Just look at the results. Hoke came in here and in his second season had the team moving smartly forward. The Poinsettia Bowl was the high water mark in Aztec football history. No, Hoke didn’t recruit well, which is part of Rocky’s trouble now. But Hoke won largely with Chuckster’s players, and they were hardly all-America candidates. As an accidental hire, Rocky had a mandate to simply not screw up what was already in place, and yet he has done just that. I will always believe Long could succeed with the right players, but since bringing in those players is part of his responsibilities as a head coach, and since he seems incapable of coaxing the talent he needs to run his system, then he will never have the right players as long as he is the guy doing the recruiting. Let Rocky be someone else’s DC, a job we know he can handle. And let us hope that another Harbaugh is out there coveting our head job, as Harbaugh himself did a number of years ago.
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Post by sdsustoner on Oct 1, 2012 8:49:07 GMT -8
After the loss to Fresneck, Rocky may have lost a ton of supporters. If the defense continues to look offensive, then I'm going to be another to jump ship. Right now, I can only blame him for not scheduling Army more times this season.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2012 10:50:09 GMT -8
Just look at the results. Hoke came in here and in his second season had the team moving smartly forward. The Poinsettia Bowl was the high water mark in Aztec football history. No, Hoke didn’t recruit well, which is part of Rocky’s trouble now. But Hoke won largely with Chuckster’s players, and they were hardly all-America candidates. As an accidental hire, Rocky had a mandate to simply not screw up what was already in place, and yet he has done just that. I will always believe Long could succeed with the right players, but since bringing in those players is part of his responsibilities as a head coach, and since he seems incapable of coaxing the talent he needs to run his system, then he will never have the right players as long as he is the guy doing the recruiting. Let Rocky be someone else’s DC, a job we know he can handle. And let us hope that another Harbaugh is out there coveting our head job, as Harbaugh himself did a number of years ago. I'd like to see you post more. You make reasoned, objective and unemotional contributions to the board. You must have played sports. To the substance of what's above, maybe somebody should start a thread on why they think the atmosphere at Qualcomm is all of a sudden almost back to the dreary mausoleum that epitomized CHUCK Long football. I have some ideas but would rather hear from others and it's a bit off topic here. I don't at all think Hoke recruited poorly. Instead, I think the biggest problem with this team is line play on both sides of the ball. Craft - and particularly his doofus offensive line coach - did a horrible job with that position and Chuck and his guy started improving things a bit but there was a huge amount of work to be done and just to get a bunch of bodies, they brought in nice kids like Grassilli who nobody else wanted and they contributed nothing. Rocky and his guys brought in several stud O-linemen in this year's class but they aren't close to being ready to be starters. In 2014 they should be pretty good but not now, not yet. Finally, I know for a fact as do others who post here but don't say it publicly that the SDSU is plenty desirable. No we aren't going to lure anybody away from one of the so-called Power 5 conferences or even a BE school but the SDSU gig is sufficiently coveted that with the right salary, and $800K isn't it for the true studs, we can hire anybody from the current WAC, the MAC, the SBC and virtually anybody from CUSA. I say virtually anybody because a guy like Sonny Dykes isn't going to settle for any MWC job now other than maybe Boise. And there aren't more than a few BE jobs a guy like Dykes would take either. (If he's as smart as I think he is, he won't settle for a POS AQ job like Indiana, either.) Of course, the trouble with CUSA is there isn't a single coach from that league other than June Jones that I'd want to see come to SDSU anyway. Rocky's fine but it doesn't take past experience as a college football coach to see this team hasn't improved in the slightest over the first five games of the season. It's THAT fact which truly concerns me.
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