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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 15, 2009 22:31:13 GMT -8
This is one of the best pieces I have read on the health care debate. We all know that if one does not ask the correct questions, one should not expect to get good answers. Okay, how about this question; if U.S. citizens have a shorter life expectancy than some countries with national health care, does that mean that we should imitate their systems? Weeeeeeell, it all depends, my friends. Take a look. www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/15/too_many_holes_in_obamas_health_pitch_97910.htmlAzWm |
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Post by davdesid on Aug 16, 2009 13:14:42 GMT -8
This is one of the best pieces I have read on the health care debate. We all know that if one does not ask the correct questions, one should not expect to get good answers. Okay, how about this question; if U.S. citizens have a shorter life expectancy than some countries with national health care, does that mean that we should imitate their systems? Weeeeeeell, it all depends, my friends. Take a look. www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/15/too_many_holes_in_obamas_health_pitch_97910.htmlAzWm Be careful with these "life-span" statistics. All sorts of things get factored in having nothing to do with the health care systems, like traffic accidents, crime, and combat casualties. A more meaningful comparison would compare disease related issues: www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649Just sayin'. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 16, 2009 21:22:47 GMT -8
This is one of the best pieces I have read on the health care debate. We all know that if one does not ask the correct questions, one should not expect to get good answers. Okay, how about this question; if U.S. citizens have a shorter life expectancy than some countries with national health care, does that mean that we should imitate their systems? Weeeeeeell, it all depends, my friends. Take a look. www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/15/too_many_holes_in_obamas_health_pitch_97910.htmlAzWm Be careful with these "life-span" statistics. All sorts of things get factored in having nothing to do with the health care systems, like traffic accidents, crime, and combat casualties. A more meaningful comparison would compare disease related issues: www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649Just sayin'. That is truly impressive! Hey, Bob. . . What say you re the facts mentioned in the NCPA article? AzWm |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Aug 17, 2009 16:32:19 GMT -8
Be careful with these "life-span" statistics. All sorts of things get factored in having nothing to do with the health care systems, like traffic accidents, crime, and combat casualties. A more meaningful comparison would compare disease related issues: www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649Just sayin'. That is truly impressive! Hey, Bob. . . What say you re the facts mentioned in the NCPA article? AzWm It's Jonah Goldberg, so it holds no cred with me at all. But let's look at a couple of things: According to the CIA World Factbook's 2009 estimate, American life expectancy is 78.11 years. In the UK -- with its nationalized system -- it's a whopping 79.01. Taiwan's is 77.96 and so is Albania's.In short, everyone dies. If I were in my late '70s, had kids and was given 6 months to live, I suspect I wouldn't bother to get a life extension that would cost my family a fortune just so I could live a few extra months. I'd opt to just be given pain killing drugs and die in peace. In an interview with The New York Times last spring, he acknowledged that oldsters are a "huge driver of cost." The "chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health-care bill out here," Obama explained. Which is why he advocated an advisory panel of experts to offer "guidance" on end-of-life care and costs. But don't you dare call it a death panel.Total fear mongering, but that's the best one can expect from an asshole like Goldberg. All Obama is stating is the truth. But aside from stating the truth, he has in no way, shape or form suggested that the elderly be denied care (which is something they and much younger terminally ill patients are often denied today under the bull$#!+ insurance plans that they have). Feel free to defend everything the insurance companies do, Will - ain't like you've ever bothered with gaining an understanding of how the insurance companies have made our health care the most expensive in the world. =Bob |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Aug 17, 2009 16:34:59 GMT -8
This is one of the best pieces I have read on the health care debate. We all know that if one does not ask the correct questions, one should not expect to get good answers. Okay, how about this question; if U.S. citizens have a shorter life expectancy than some countries with national health care, does that mean that we should imitate their systems? Weeeeeeell, it all depends, my friends. Take a look. www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/15/too_many_holes_in_obamas_health_pitch_97910.htmlAzWm Be careful with these "life-span" statistics. All sorts of things get factored in having nothing to do with the health care systems, like traffic accidents, crime, and combat casualties. A more meaningful comparison would compare disease related issues: www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649Just sayin'. Gee, and I'm just sayin' that you've been on government run health care for most of your adult life. Tell ya what - resign from Medicare, VA and tri-care and attempt to get private health care at your age. Let us know how much they laugh at you for attempting to do so. =Bob |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 17, 2009 21:25:54 GMT -8
Let's all agree that no one involved in this debate, whether on AztecMesa or on national TV, desires to kill oldsters. That's a given. What is of concern to many is the fact that once you start rationing, and that means rationing in whatever form, inevitably you are going to have patients who either cannot get what they need to stay alive or else must wait an inordinate amount of time before their care is forthcoming. Obama has not been candid enough to admit that publicly. Has anyone read Krugman's latest attack on those who oppose Obamacare? ( www.nytimes.com/2009/08/17/opinion/17krugman.html?bl&ex=1250654400&en=896e8475da33a334&ei=5087%0A ) It's interesting that he defends the Canadian system with this statement: "Canadians with chronic conditions are more satisfied with their system than their U.S. counterparts." Notice that he says nothing about how people with life or death health problems feel. This seems to be a common characteristic of government health systems: They can do a fairly decent job just so long as you are not really, really sick! If you really do have a potentially life-threatening condition, well, you make plans to come to the U.S.! One other thing that Obama can be criticized for is that he has not addressed the obvious problem of adding tens of millions of patients to a system with too few MDs and other health care workers as it is. Even if there were no federal body saying whether a patient will get this or that treatment, you would still be faced with rationing if the health professionals we now have suddenly must serve millions more patients. AzWm |
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Post by davdesid on Aug 18, 2009 13:59:11 GMT -8
Be careful with these "life-span" statistics. All sorts of things get factored in having nothing to do with the health care systems, like traffic accidents, crime, and combat casualties. A more meaningful comparison would compare disease related issues: www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649Just sayin'. Gee, and I'm just sayin' that you've been on government run health care for most of your adult life. Tell ya what - resign from Medicare, VA and tri-care and attempt to get private health care at your age. Let us know how much they laugh at you for attempting to do so. =Bob Ah... back to the "ad hom". Typical... since you can't address the issue squarely. I've been on Medicare for about 10 months, after involuntarily paying into it for forty years. I'll use it to the extent I find it useful, and so far I've had a "welcome to Medicare" check-up and some routine blood screening. Maybe I'll live long enough to get my investment back, and maybe I won't. If they deny something, and I think I need it, I'll pay out of pocket. As for the VA, I have never used it, and even if I wanted to, I'd be priority 8, the bottom of the barrel. Which is fine with me, since it is intended for disabled and more needy vets. I pay a premium for theTricare supplement, and you may not realize it, but that coverage is contracted out by the government to... gasp... insurance companies. |
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Post by davdesid on Aug 18, 2009 14:54:53 GMT -8
That is truly impressive! Hey, Bob. . . What say you re the facts mentioned in the NCPA article? AzWm It's Jonah Goldberg, so it holds no cred with me at all. But let's look at a couple of things: According to the CIA World Factbook's 2009 estimate, American life expectancy is 78.11 years. In the UK -- with its nationalized system -- it's a whopping 79.01. Taiwan's is 77.96 and so is Albania's.In short, everyone dies. If I were in my late '70s, had kids and was given 6 months to live, I suspect I wouldn't bother to get a life extension that would cost my family a fortune just so I could live a few extra months. I'd opt to just be given pain killing drugs and die in peace. In an interview with The New York Times last spring, he acknowledged that oldsters are a "huge driver of cost." The "chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health-care bill out here," Obama explained. Which is why he advocated an advisory panel of experts to offer "guidance" on end-of-life care and costs. But don't you dare call it a death panel.Total fear mongering, but that's the best one can expect from an asshole like Goldberg. All Obama is stating is the truth. But aside from stating the truth, he has in no way, shape or form suggested that the elderly be denied care (which is something they and much younger terminally ill patients are often denied today under the bull$#!+ insurance plans that they have). Feel free to defend everything the insurance companies do, Will - ain't like you've ever bothered with gaining an understanding of how the insurance companies have made our health care the most expensive in the world. =Bob Hey, =Perfesser, I think you were asked to comment on the NCPA article. Not what you think of Jonah Golberg. More of your typical diversion and ad hominem. You simply can't address the issue without it. |
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Post by uwaztec on Aug 19, 2009 8:05:17 GMT -8
This is one of the best pieces I have read on the health care debate. We all know that if one does not ask the correct questions, one should not expect to get good answers. Okay, how about this question; if U.S. citizens have a shorter life expectancy than some countries with national health care, does that mean that we should imitate their systems? Weeeeeeell, it all depends, my friends. Take a look. www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/15/too_many_holes_in_obamas_health_pitch_97910.htmlAzWm Be careful with these "life-span" statistics. All sorts of things get factored in having nothing to do with the health care systems, like traffic accidents, crime, and combat casualties. A more meaningful comparison would compare disease related issues: www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649Just sayin'. Americans have access to Cancer, Diabetes, liver disease etc. treatment which is good... However, I think we need it more. The kind of garbage I see my fellow Americans putting in their bodies is gross... plus cigarettes and over-indulgence in alcohol. We should have a tier system. People like me that work hard on their health & diet should pay much less than a 300 lber who eats processed fast food all day, smokes and drinks. |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Aug 20, 2009 17:22:55 GMT -8
Gee, and I'm just sayin' that you've been on government run health care for most of your adult life. Tell ya what - resign from Medicare, VA and tri-care and attempt to get private health care at your age. Let us know how much they laugh at you for attempting to do so. =Bob Ah... back to the "ad hom". Typical... since you can't address the issue squarely. I've been on Medicare for about 10 months, after involuntarily paying into it for forty years. I'll use it to the extent I find it useful, and so far I've had a "welcome to Medicare" check-up and some routine blood screening. Maybe I'll live long enough to get my investment back, and maybe I won't. If they deny something, and I think I need it, I'll pay out of pocket. You were paying for your parents and other elders who were on Medicare. I'm sorry the idea that the young should take care of the elderly bothers you, but I've come to expect that from the right-wing. Hell, without Medicare, they'd have no way at all to pay for medical care (do you really think the insurance industry would pay for elderly patients?). I'm sorry, but the right-wingnut attitude toward Medicare is "screw the elderly" and the insurance companies make sure they are totally screwed by dropping them as soon as they have a serious health crisis. I find it so farking hilarious that anyone would defend the insurance industry. They deny payment for care, they ration care like crazy and they drop people whenever the insurance bureaucrats decide that this or that illness is going to cost them too much money. And yet you buy into the bull$#!+ about having a "bureaucrat between you and your doctor". =Bob |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Aug 20, 2009 17:24:44 GMT -8
Hey, =Perfesser, I think you were asked to comment on the NCPA article. Not what you think of Jonah Golberg. More of your typical diversion and ad hominem. You simply can't address the issue without it. He's a right-wing asshole without a brain. I don't see any reason to offer any sort of statement other than that. Ain't like Pooh has ever offered anything about a Democratic elected official than to claim he's stupid and I don't see you offering any objection to that. =Bob |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 20, 2009 17:56:54 GMT -8
Hey, =Perfesser, I think you were asked to comment on the NCPA article. Not what you think of Jonah Golberg. More of your typical diversion and ad hominem. You simply can't address the issue without it. He's a right-wing asshole without a brain. I don't see any reason to offer any sort of statement other than that. Ain't like Pooh has ever offered anything about a Democratic elected official than to claim he's stupid and I don't see you offering any objection to that. =Bob Bob, I cry for you. I can tell when someone is stupid, mean-spirited or devoid of logic. Some people with whom I disagree (Krugman?) nevertheless are obviously not stupid, mean-spirited, or devoid of logic (well, maybe not that last one!  ). Jonah Goldberg is obviously intelligent, well-intentioned, and a logical thinker. Bob, how about considering the possibility that not all people with whom you disagree are idiots and monsters? Really, Bob, this has been going on since I started participating in AztecTalk three and a half years ago and it's getting really, really tiresome. People with the positive characteristics mentioned above are free to reach conclusions and to hold opinions that you, or I, or anyone else, may find objectionable. Isn't that attitude endorsed by liberals generally? You have so frequently condemned Joe, and generally not without reason. But when you make posts like this you really descend to his level. Or worse. Stop it! I say this as a friend. AzWm |
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Post by aztecwin on Aug 21, 2009 10:23:10 GMT -8
Hey, =Perfesser, I think you were asked to comment on the NCPA article. Not what you think of Jonah Golberg. More of your typical diversion and ad hominem. You simply can't address the issue without it. He's a right-wing asshole without a brain. I don't see any reason to offer any sort of statement other than that. Ain't like Pooh has ever offered anything about a Democratic elected official than to claim he's stupid and I don't see you offering any objection to that. =Bob Find an example. I comment on issues on most things other than Algore, who is nuts and I even show why on him. |
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Post by davdesid on Aug 21, 2009 13:35:05 GMT -8
Hey, =Perfesser, I think you were asked to comment on the NCPA article. Not what you think of Jonah Golberg. More of your typical diversion and ad hominem. You simply can't address the issue without it. He's a right-wing asshole without a brain. I don't see any reason to offer any sort of statement other than that. Ain't like Pooh has ever offered anything about a Democratic elected official than to claim he's stupid and I don't see you offering any objection to that. =Bob Jonah Goldberg did NOT <repeat> NOT write the NCPA report. Your opinion of Jonah Goldberg is simply a laughable diversion away from addressing the report. Can't you see how you demolish your pretense at credibility with idiotic partisan attacks on someone who is not even associated with the report? Amazing..... |
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Post by davdesid on Aug 21, 2009 13:51:05 GMT -8
Ah... back to the "ad hom". Typical... since you can't address the issue squarely. I've been on Medicare for about 10 months, after involuntarily paying into it for forty years. I'll use it to the extent I find it useful, and so far I've had a "welcome to Medicare" check-up and some routine blood screening. Maybe I'll live long enough to get my investment back, and maybe I won't. If they deny something, and I think I need it, I'll pay out of pocket. You were paying for your parents and other elders who were on Medicare. I'm sorry the idea that the young should take care of the elderly bothers you, but I've come to expect that from the right-wing. Hell, without Medicare, they'd have no way at all to pay for medical care (do you really think the insurance industry would pay for elderly patients?). I'm sorry, but the right-wingnut attitude toward Medicare is "screw the elderly" and the insurance companies make sure they are totally screwed by dropping them as soon as they have a serious health crisis. I find it so farking hilarious that anyone would defend the insurance industry. They deny payment for care, they ration care like crazy and they drop people whenever the insurance bureaucrats decide that this or that illness is going to cost them too much money. And yet you buy into the bull$#!+ about having a "bureaucrat between you and your doctor". =Bob I was paying into Medicare involuntarily since its inception. Now that I am old enough to use it if I want to, it's no mystery that I'd be inclined to use whenever I find it useful. Now, you libs think everyone at any age should be on that kind of system without having spent a working lifetime of paying into it. And those who did, have to pay for that too! Now, THAT is bull$#!+. At least I can go outside on my own hook if I need to, if the gummint bureaucrats deny a service. Obamacare will make that a crime. I had no insurance of any kind when either of my first two kids were born. No... no military coverage, because I was in the reserves at that time. No employer provided insurance, either. I was able to negotiate with the family doctor, and set up a payment schedule, and pay it off. That will become illegal under this crazy gummint takeover. It has to, or doctors will not participate. At least not any who are worth a $#!+. Oh, and by the way, if a private insurance company reneges on a coverage defined in the client's policy, tell me why the client would not have an actionable case in court. |
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Post by aztecwin on Aug 21, 2009 15:12:45 GMT -8
Be careful with these "life-span" statistics. All sorts of things get factored in having nothing to do with the health care systems, like traffic accidents, crime, and combat casualties. A more meaningful comparison would compare disease related issues: www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649Just sayin'. Gee, and I'm just sayin' that you've been on government run health care for most of your adult life. Tell ya what - resign from Medicare, VA and tri-care and attempt to get private health care at your age. Let us know how much they laugh at you for attempting to do so. =Bob If he is like most of us retired vets, he has never been near the VA. Some use the VA only to verify and legitimize service connected disability. What is wrong with using Tricare which he paid for or Social Security which he paid for? He really had no real choice. Before you reply, look up the word "imputed" and how it applys to servicement. |
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). Jonah Goldberg is obviously intelligent, well-intentioned, and a logical thinker.