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Post by aztec70 on Jan 14, 2011 10:26:04 GMT -8
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jan 14, 2011 12:09:57 GMT -8
Sigh! Must I debunk this collectivist claptrap once again? Apparently so. Okay, there goes.
To worry that we might become another Mexico is so absurd an idea that it hardly needs rebutting. The economy of the U.S.A. could fall a long, long way and still the country would not come close to the unfortunately condition that Mexicans suffer.
But more importantly, the mere fact that some people at the top of the economic ladder have become richer does not mean that the country is in dire shape. What is important is whether people all the way down the ladder have a decent chance to succeed in life. And when I use the word "succeed" I mean have a reasonable chance that they, if they work hard and generally avoid making stupid personal decisions, will be able to earn a living. Notice I did not say that they should be able to earn enough to enjoy a lavish lifestyle or enough to buy a house. To what degree a person succeeds in life is mostly dependent on that person's god-given talent and his or her willingness to work hard and exercise a minimum of good sense in making career decisions.
The author apparently thinks that we would be better off if all workers belonged to unions. The fact is that labor unions were a good idea half a century ago. Today labor unions have themselves become big businesses. Their purpose is ensure that their members are better off than the many workers who do not belong to unions. This country became the economic colossus of the world with never more than one third of the workers belonging to unions. Since union membership has fallen drastically, the country has become richer and more powerful still.
The problem with unions, and I have been a member myself as was my dad, is that they basically want to run whatever business whose workers they represent without being subject to the risks that managers and owners face every day. Anybody with even a modest knowledge of the auto industry knows how byzantine work rules put in place at the behest of unions handicapped the industry and put it in a position of inferiority to their competitors in other countries. And, let it be noted, the workers in Japan are unionized. Apparently the Japanese unions actually concern themselves with how such things as work rules can hurt the company down the road.
Okay, if you are still not convinced, then why does not the Left take my advice. As I suggested in another thread, perhaps the government should confiscate all personal wealth above a certain level. Let's say you get to keep up to 50 or 100 million dollars in net worth. The rest goes to the government. Then we could see whether politicians and bureaucrats can more wisely spend money than the people who have earned it. If my suggestion became law, I'm sure there would be less inequality of wealth in this country. Do you think we would be better off?
AzWm
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jan 14, 2011 12:14:34 GMT -8
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Post by inocuace on Jan 15, 2011 8:09:27 GMT -8
Collectivist claptrap. . . I guess that it is not possible to hold a differing view without being a communist huh?
The fact of the matter is that wealth inequality does impact our economic well being. Countries with high disparities are almost inevitably less well off than those whose differences are smaller. And, and our overall economic condition has deteriorated in direct tandem to the growth of income inequality. If you lay the graphs side by side the correlation is clear.
Do you dispute the fact that the 70% of us whose incomes have declined are also the ones most responsible for our economy's performance? If more resources fall into the hands of people who do not spend, just how does or economy expand?
If wealth inequality is not at least partially responsible for our declining incomes, then pray tell just what is? And don't tell me it is because we are lazier, unmotivated, stupid or some other personal responsibility tripe.
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Post by aztecwin on Jan 15, 2011 8:50:25 GMT -8
Collectivist claptrap. . . I guess that it is not possible to hold a differing view without being a communist huh? The fact of the matter is that wealth inequality does impact our economic well being. Countries with high disparities are almost inevitably less well off than those whose differences are smaller. And, and our overall economic condition has deteriorated in direct tandem to the growth of income inequality. If you lay the graphs side by side the correlation is clear. Do you dispute the fact that the 70% of us whose incomes have declined are also the ones most responsible for our economy's performance? If more resources fall into the hands of people who do not spend, just how does or economy expand? If wealth inequality is not at least partially responsible for our declining incomes, then pray tell just what is? And don't tell me it is because we are lazier, unmotivated, stupid or some other personal responsibility tripe. Just how does income redistribution help anyone and how is it done? Destroy the source of capital and jobs are not created. How about going after the real problems that make large companies want to export jobs. Unions, regulations, high taxes and such make us uncompetitive. Those are our problems and not high net worth individuals or high income earners. They are investors. We need to make domestic investment attractive to create jobs. |
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Post by inocuace on Jan 15, 2011 9:30:25 GMT -8
Collectivist claptrap. . . I guess that it is not possible to hold a differing view without being a communist huh? The fact of the matter is that wealth inequality does impact our economic well being. Countries with high disparities are almost inevitably less well off than those whose differences are smaller. And, and our overall economic condition has deteriorated in direct tandem to the growth of income inequality. If you lay the graphs side by side the correlation is clear. Do you dispute the fact that the 70% of us whose incomes have declined are also the ones most responsible for our economy's performance? If more resources fall into the hands of people who do not spend, just how does or economy expand? If wealth inequality is not at least partially responsible for our declining incomes, then pray tell just what is? And don't tell me it is because we are lazier, unmotivated, stupid or some other personal responsibility tripe. Just how does income redistribution help anyone and how is it done? Destroy the source of capital and jobs are not created. How about going after the real problems that make large companies want to export jobs. Unions, regulations, high taxes and such make us uncompetitive. Those are our problems and not high net worth individuals or high income earners. They are investors. We need to make domestic investment attractive to create jobs. I said that you can connect our economic well being with disparities in income. And the are inversely proportional. Sending jobs overseas is part of the cause, but the trend was created by wealth seeking to increase wealth-without regard to the nation, the employees, the common good, or anything else but accumulating more wealth. You tell me how to fix it. Conservatives hate unions, regulations, taxation, or any attempt to control economic behavior. I know what to do, but you do not want that remedy. So, suggest something. |
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Post by ptsdthor on Jan 15, 2011 17:06:56 GMT -8
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Post by aztecwin on Jan 15, 2011 17:54:52 GMT -8
Just how does income redistribution help anyone and how is it done? Destroy the source of capital and jobs are not created. How about going after the real problems that make large companies want to export jobs. Unions, regulations, high taxes and such make us uncompetitive. Those are our problems and not high net worth individuals or high income earners. They are investors. We need to make domestic investment attractive to create jobs. I said that you can connect our economic well being with disparities in income. And the are inversely proportional. Sending jobs overseas is part of the cause, but the trend was created by wealth seeking to increase wealth-without regard to the nation, the employees, the common good, or anything else but accumulating more wealth. You tell me how to fix it. Conservatives hate unions, regulations, taxation, or any attempt to control economic behavior. I know what to do, but you do not want that remedy. So, suggest something. Don't you think "hate" is a little bit too strong a word to use? Conservatives merely point out what some major problems are. Things have to change in those areas if we are ever to get competetive in some segments of manufacturing. You can never get ahead by consumning the seed corn. |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jan 15, 2011 18:57:11 GMT -8
Sigh! Must I debunk this collectivist claptrap once again? Apparently so. Okay, there goes. AzWm . Total bull$#!+, William! We are seeing the total destruction of the United States. As the Republicans destroyed the middle class in this country, they destroyed the potential for success. When the massive wave of bloodshed starts, I am going to be sitting back telling you clowns, "I told you so!" The Oppressive Greed of the Republican Party (I've got mine, so Fug You!) has destroyed a once great country. We will see the continuing fall and collapse of our civilization in the months ahead. |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jan 15, 2011 19:07:38 GMT -8
Your article it total crap. Nothing but lies because of the ludicrous assumptions for benefit value and benefit availability. I have seen so many lies come from the Republican Camp that I am now assured that all of the "I've got mine so fug you" destroyers of the middle class are so totally evil that they know only Satan as their god. The bloody and violent revolution to settle accounts is drawing closer and closer every day. By destroying the middle class the Republicans have guaranteed civil war in this country. Watch and see. |
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Post by aztecwin on Jan 16, 2011 7:51:36 GMT -8
Probably a little simplistic, but the point is made. The point is made extremely clear to those who scam and scheme to live well but work little. |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jan 16, 2011 7:58:13 GMT -8
The strength of America used to be in our large middle class. For the most part it is now gone (But not forgotten.). Does the "I've got mine, so fug you" Satanic worshiping crowd have any plans to restore the middle class to America?  ? |
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Post by aztecwin on Jan 16, 2011 8:02:30 GMT -8
The strength of America used to be in our large middle class. For the most part it is now gone (But not forgotten.). Does the "I've got mine, so fug you" Satanic worshiping crowd have any plans to restore the middle class to America? ? The middle class can be restored by reversing the conditions that export middle class jobs offshore. Corporation Taxes, unions and heavy handed regulation send jobs elsewhere. |
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Post by inocuace on Jan 16, 2011 8:06:21 GMT -8
Bull sh#t. I looked at the tables in your citation. The numbers looked skewed. Sure enough they were. It took me about one minute and 30 seconds to find a huge hole in them. The federal tax number quoted in your citation is off about $4,000.00, for the family making $60,000.00. Their Federal tax bill is in the neighborhood of $4,600.00. (assuming married joint with two kids.) The FICA is about 4,500.00. If you are going to indict us Marxists, you are going to have to pretend that we will check your GD figures. Even you can perform the calculation,all by yourself without help, in a few minutes. Go to irs.gov. They have all the tools you need. |
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Post by inocuace on Jan 16, 2011 8:11:24 GMT -8
I said that you can connect our economic well being with disparities in income. And the are inversely proportional. Sending jobs overseas is part of the cause, but the trend was created by wealth seeking to increase wealth-without regard to the nation, the employees, the common good, or anything else but accumulating more wealth. You tell me how to fix it. Conservatives hate unions, regulations, taxation, or any attempt to control economic behavior. I know what to do, but you do not want that remedy. So, suggest something. Don't you think "hate" is a little bit too strong a word to use? Conservatives merely point out what some major problems are. Things have to change in those areas if we are ever to get competetive in some segments of manufacturing. You can never get ahead by consumning the seed corn. I have read the comments here. You do not like unions at all, but you are usually fair minded. Using hate to characterize what some others who post here think- is a gross understatement. I do not buy the seed corn analogy when applied to modern business at all. If you really wanted seed corn you would pay taxes and improve the infrastructure. Business does nothing to improve the infrastructure. They send jobs to China and they improve their infrastructure. |
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Post by aztecwin on Jan 16, 2011 19:21:18 GMT -8
Don't you think "hate" is a little bit too strong a word to use? Conservatives merely point out what some major problems are. Things have to change in those areas if we are ever to get competetive in some segments of manufacturing. You can never get ahead by consumning the seed corn. I have read the comments here. You do not like unions at all, but you are usually fair minded. Using hate to characterize what some others who post here think- is a gross understatement. I do not buy the seed corn analogy when applied to modern business at all. If you really wanted seed corn you would pay taxes and improve the infrastructure. Business does nothing to improve the infrastructure. They send jobs to China and they improve their infrastructure. Nothing you say improves our competetive position. What I advocate does. |
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Post by inocuace on Jan 17, 2011 7:44:18 GMT -8
I have read the comments here. You do not like unions at all, but you are usually fair minded. Using hate to characterize what some others who post here think- is a gross understatement. I do not buy the seed corn analogy when applied to modern business at all. If you really wanted seed corn you would pay taxes and improve the infrastructure. Business does nothing to improve the infrastructure. They send jobs to China and they improve their infrastructure. Nothing you say improves our competetive position. What I advocate does. You are absolutely right. Investing in our infrastructure does not improve our competitiveness. How could I have been so blind? |
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Post by ptsdthor on Jan 17, 2011 9:43:54 GMT -8
Lets see.... Import poverty and unskilled labor by the millions and for some reason pay in the service sector (perhaps the largest part of economy) is not going up.?? Oh yeah, blame a Conservative and take someone else's salary to compensate. Have millions of college kids trend away from the hard sciences towards liberal arts and for some reason our ability to retain high paying white collar business declines. Imagine? Remove tax breaks for capital investment and for some reason, businesses do not implement infrastructure improvements. Gee Arnold - what happened? Have the President demonstrate that the Government will get paid first, second and third when you have an employee working for you and for some reason businesses are reluctant to hire new employees. Who woulda thunk? Labor Unions make our private sector manufacturing (like the Auto industry) be less competitive and for some reason business owners look for less expensive alternative. Didn't they go to Yale & Harvard for their MBA? Those evil Conservatives ...  |
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Post by aztec70 on Jan 17, 2011 10:36:49 GMT -8
Lets see.... Import poverty and unskilled labor by the millions and for some reason pay in the service sector (perhaps the largest part of economy) is not going up.?? Oh yeah, blame a Conservative and take someone else's salary to compensate. Those evil Conservatives ... Could you be more explicit on why poor, unskilled workers are holding down wages in the service economy? |
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Post by uwaztec on Jan 17, 2011 10:50:42 GMT -8
Lets see.... Import poverty and unskilled labor by the millions and for some reason pay in the service sector (perhaps the largest part of economy) is not going up.?? Oh yeah, blame a Conservative and take someone else's salary to compensate. Have millions of college kids trend away from the hard sciences towards liberal arts and for some reason our ability to retain high paying white collar business declines. Imagine? Remove tax breaks for capital investment and for some reason, businesses do not implement infrastructure improvements. Gee Arnold - what happened? Have the President demonstrate that the Government will get paid first, second and third when you have an employee working for you and for some reason businesses are reluctant to hire new employees. Who woulda thunk? Labor Unions make our private sector manufacturing (like the Auto industry) be less competitive and for some reason business owners look for less expensive alternative. Didn't they go to Yale & Harvard for their MBA? Those evil Conservatives ... What a joke... the anti-science movement actually comes from the far Right. Students have always gravittated to what they feel they are good at... re Liberal Arts vs. Science. The same type of student that was bad at chemistry 50 years ago is still bad at it. Dumb post. |
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