|
|
Post by Gundo on Nov 14, 2024 13:29:13 GMT -8
With the new Pac-12 expansion pulling major programs from the MWC—including Boise State, Colorado State, Fresno State, San Diego State, and Utah State, along with Gonzaga joining for basketball—the Pac-12 has shifted its focus to enhancing its competitive standing in both football and basketball.
In response, the MWC has been actively restructuring to stabilize and sustain its lineup. Notably, the MWC has added the University of Texas at El Paso (UTEP) as a full member, along with confirming Hawaii’ as a full member (who has asked not to travel beyond the Rocky Mtns) and Grand Canyon University as a member for men’s basketball and Olympic sports, shunning the WCC. And possibly joining in 2025?
This streamlined membership keeps the MWC at eight teams for football, allowing it to meet NCAA requirements for a championship game. The current members accepted: Air Force, UNLV, Wyoming, Nevada, New Mexico, San Jose State, Hawaii, UTEP and GCU will help to bolster the MWC G5 competitiveness, supporting its strategic push for stability and regional presence amid national realignment changes, so who is next?
Off the table:
*New Mexico State - CUSA
*Texas State - Sun Belt
Considered but less than possible (IMO):
*Northern Illinois - MAC (FB only)
*Toledo - MAC (FB only)
*Sam Houston State - CUSA
*Saint Mary's - WCC (MBB only)
FCS most likely, per the BIG MTN podcast
*North Dakota State: With nine FCS national championships since 2011, NDSU established itself as a dominant force in the FCS division, showcasing excellence in both football and athletic development.
*Sacramento State: Benefiting from strong financial backing and deep community support, Sacramento State has excelled with over $50 million in NIL funding. The university also enjoys unique opportunities, such as access to the Sacramento Kings’ arena for its athletic events, adding to its growing prominence.
*Tarleton State: Having made an impressive leap from NCAA Division II to the FCS as part of the Western Athletic Conference (WAC), Tarleton State is now looking to advance to the (FBS). With strategic investments and continued growth, the university is positioning itself for future success at the highest level of college football.
These programs are building momentum and are poised to make strides in the G5 landscape. I think the new MWC will want 9 FB schools & 10 MBB schools. They currently stand at 8 FB & 9 MBB.
Other FCS listed:
Montana, Montana State & South Dakota State
It has been reported that the MWC and its broadcast partners are keen on expanding into the Central Time Zone to open up larger broadcast windows. However, Hawaii is repeatedly asked to limit its travel for all sports (with the exception of football) to schools within the Rocky Mountain region, due to concerns about travel costs and the physical toll on student-athletes
|
|
|
|
Post by panammaniac on Nov 14, 2024 14:27:41 GMT -8
It's ridiculous if you think about it, bordering on absurd. NMSU is a natural fit geographically and culturally. The MWC is always coming up with excuses for passing us up. Don't have big enough athletics budget. Too hard to get to Las Cruces. Too small of a media market. Inadequate facilities. Then they turn to the likes of Sam Houston and North Dakota State. Sam Houston has JUCO-like facilities, draws very poorly, is in a very small market, and budgets about $10 million less than NMSU. NDSU - well they're in Fargo which is roughly the same size as Las Cruces, except it's a 3.5 hour drive in good weather to the closest big city. NMSU is 45 minutes from El Paso Airport. Fargo does have an airport but it gets a whopping 10 flights a day, almost all puddle jumpers from MSP and Chicago. NMSU has a nice 30k seat football stadium and a nice 12k seat basketball arena. The Las Cruces/El Paso DMA is 89th in the country. The Fargo DMA is about 150th. With NMSU it boils down to what I've said all along - UNM doesn't want us in the conference, even more so now that UTEP is in the conference. Now two out of three legs of the rivalry triangle are against us.
It's fine with us though. We're happy in CUSA. Losing UTEP as a conference mate stings a little. Our next closest conference mate is about 600 miles away now, and we still have Liberty and their obnoxiousness to deal with (Liberty is to CUSA what BYU was to the WAC/MWC back in the day), but overall it's a great fit.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gundo on Nov 14, 2024 14:57:54 GMT -8
It's ridiculous if you think about it, bordering on absurd. NMSU is a natural fit geographically and culturally. The MWC is always coming up with excuses for passing us up. Don't have big enough athletics budget. Too hard to get to Las Cruces. Too small of a media market. Inadequate facilities. Then they turn to the likes of Sam Houston and North Dakota State. Sam Houston has JUCO-like facilities, draws very poorly, is in a very small market, and budgets about $10 million less than NMSU. NDSU - well they're in Fargo which is roughly the same size as Las Cruces, except it's a 3.5 hour drive in good weather to the closest big city. NMSU is 45 minutes from El Paso Airport. Fargo does have an airport but it gets a whopping 10 flights a day, almost all puddle jumpers from MSP and Chicago. NMSU has a nice 30k seat football stadium and a nice 12k seat basketball arena. The Las Cruces/El Paso DMA is 89th in the country. The Fargo DMA is about 150th. With NMSU it boils down to what I've said all along - UNM doesn't want us in the conference, even more so now that UTEP is in the conference. Now two out of three legs of the rivalry triangle are against us. It's fine with us though. We're happy in CUSA. Losing UTEP as a conference mate stings a little. Our next closest conference mate is about 600 miles away now, and we still have Liberty and their obnoxiousness to deal with (Liberty is to CUSA what BYU was to the WAC/MWC back in the day), but overall it's a great fit. According to Powers (Media Partners), NMSU is seen as redundant to UTEP and doesn't add media value to the MWC. They’re focused on entering the Central Time Zone, with schools like NDSU and Tarleton State, to open broadcast windows and expands geographic reach for recruiting and visibility. I’m not claiming this is the right perspective, but that’s the current sentiment. While NMSU has stronger overall athletics, it's likely destined to remain a CUSA school rather than join the MWC. Regarding the list I provided, it comes from the Big Mountain Podcast, hosted by Jay Y, a strong MWC supporter. He’s particularly fond of Gloria and is currently on a rant about Tarleton State and NDSU. They’ve also spoken with the SAC12 Business Leader, and I was impressed by the level of financial and community backing they have. I’d love to see the Hornets get an opportunity to move up from the Big Sky. According to the PAC12, they’ve already reached their $50M NIL goal and have raised it to $75M, thanks to support from local business leaders, politicians, and the Sacramento Kings. The SAC 12 is focused on the PAC 12, ready or not. |
|
|
|
Post by Den60 on Nov 14, 2024 15:29:17 GMT -8
I'm just glad to be out of that chickenshit conference. Was talking to my niece's husband on Tuesday. They were in town and he is originally from Austin and said TexSt would be a good add for the PAC.
|
|
|
|
Post by aztucho on Nov 14, 2024 15:45:20 GMT -8
I'm just glad to be out of that chickenshit conference. Was talking to my niece's husband on Tuesday. They were in town and he is originally from Austin and said TexSt would be a good add for the PAC. Amen, I want nothing to do with these Pioneer and Prairie schools in the middle of nowhere. We are not trying to re-enact episodes of Yellowstone, we are trying to build a nationally recognized athletics program. If there aren't at least 2 Million people within on hours drive of a school, it should not be considered for the PAC. |
|
|
|
Post by Den60 on Nov 14, 2024 16:19:28 GMT -8
I'm just glad to be out of that chickenshit conference. Was talking to my niece's husband on Tuesday. They were in town and he is originally from Austin and said TexSt would be a good add for the PAC. Amen, I want nothing to do with these Pioneer and Prairie schools in the middle of nowhere. We are not trying to re-enact episodes of Yellowstone, we are trying to build a nationally recognized athletics program. If there aren't at least 2 Million people within on hours drive of a school, it should not be considered for the PAC. Well, that would eliminate Boise, eh? However, when it comes to FB, Boise owns the state of Idaho (population 1.97M) when it comes to CFB. Utah St. is in a state with the population of the county of San Diego and are third in the state when it comes to FB and BB programs. Yet, I think they will do well in the PAC. |
|
|
|
Post by panammaniac on Nov 15, 2024 9:38:32 GMT -8
It's ridiculous if you think about it, bordering on absurd. NMSU is a natural fit geographically and culturally. The MWC is always coming up with excuses for passing us up. Don't have big enough athletics budget. Too hard to get to Las Cruces. Too small of a media market. Inadequate facilities. Then they turn to the likes of Sam Houston and North Dakota State. Sam Houston has JUCO-like facilities, draws very poorly, is in a very small market, and budgets about $10 million less than NMSU. NDSU - well they're in Fargo which is roughly the same size as Las Cruces, except it's a 3.5 hour drive in good weather to the closest big city. NMSU is 45 minutes from El Paso Airport. Fargo does have an airport but it gets a whopping 10 flights a day, almost all puddle jumpers from MSP and Chicago. NMSU has a nice 30k seat football stadium and a nice 12k seat basketball arena. The Las Cruces/El Paso DMA is 89th in the country. The Fargo DMA is about 150th. With NMSU it boils down to what I've said all along - UNM doesn't want us in the conference, even more so now that UTEP is in the conference. Now two out of three legs of the rivalry triangle are against us. It's fine with us though. We're happy in CUSA. Losing UTEP as a conference mate stings a little. Our next closest conference mate is about 600 miles away now, and we still have Liberty and their obnoxiousness to deal with (Liberty is to CUSA what BYU was to the WAC/MWC back in the day), but overall it's a great fit. According to Powers (Media Partners), NMSU is seen as redundant to UTEP and doesn't add media value to the MWC. They’re focused on entering the Central Time Zone, with schools like NDSU and Tarleton State, to open broadcast windows and expands geographic reach for recruiting and visibility. I’m not claiming this is the right perspective, but that’s the current sentiment. While NMSU has stronger overall athletics, it's likely destined to remain a CUSA school rather than join the MWC. Regarding the list I provided, it comes from the Big Mountain Podcast, hosted by Jay Y, a strong MWC supporter. He’s particularly fond of Gloria and is currently on a rant about Tarleton State and NDSU. They’ve also spoken with the SAC12 Business Leader, and I was impressed by the level of financial and community backing they have. I’d love to see the Hornets get an opportunity to move up from the Big Sky. According to the PAC12, they’ve already reached their $50M NIL goal and have raised it to $75M, thanks to support from local business leaders, politicians, and the Sacramento Kings. The SAC 12 is focused on the PAC 12, ready or not. I'm old school when it comes to this sort of thing, but it seems awfully counterintuitive. Things like regional rivalries used to matter. There was a time for example when the annual SDSU-BYU matchup was a big deal, quite often nationally televised. Regionality and rivalries don't seem to matter to the conference leaders anymore. Expanding into new time zones seems to matter. In a way I get that, but I also have to ask this question: how exactly does it move the MWC's (or any conference's) needle by taking on an NDSU or similar school that has an extremely small market and following? Sure, it gets the MWC into the central time zone, but it does it by taking on an extremely isolated school in a very isolated town of 130k population that is very difficult to travel to. Does that really add more value than taking on a 100+ year old 3-way rivalry, which adds a lot of made for TV drama to the conference? It just doesn't make a lot of sense. It's kind of like the logic of 10-15 years ago of adding SJSU because they're in one of the biggest TV markets in the US. That's great, except nobody in that market watches them on TV. |
|
|
|
Post by aztucho on Nov 15, 2024 10:03:44 GMT -8
I ran the numbers for the populations within an hour of each school below. Safe to assume we should be focusing on schools with both good Football teams and in Markets over 1M people. Laramie, Wyoming.....woof. Sacramento State and Texas State are in bigger markets than we are!
School: Population (60 mi)
San Diego State: 3,483,364
Fresno: 1,841,014
Utah State: 1,103,779 (Keep in mind SLC is 80 mi)
Boise: 1,004,594
Oregon State: 1,186,670
Colorado State: 3,202,133
Wyoming: 146,720
Sacramento State: 4,134,588
Texas State: 5,172,292
|
|
|
|
Post by standiego on Nov 15, 2024 10:16:41 GMT -8
what is important for the New PAC/ TV Media partners are Viewers
but do realize that it might be a little different if a school is playing in a 'better " conference
do see that if a school or two is added to the PAC that it might assist the PAC in recruiting - also helpful is having decent travel to whatever schools are added for the Non Football teams
|
|
|
|
Post by aztucho on Nov 15, 2024 10:34:10 GMT -8
I am big on how much market share you have, combined with how many students who living on or near campus, who are not commuting from their parents to class.
San Diego State is great because it has a ton of both. San Jose State is terrible because it has neither. (even though it is in a big market)
I don't now much about Texas State, but are they more like us, or more like San Jose State?
EDIT: For example, Wyoming has 100% of no people, and SJSU has 0% of tons of people.
|
|
|
|
Post by panammaniac on Nov 15, 2024 10:58:10 GMT -8
I am big on how much market share you have, combined with how many students who living on or near campus, who are not commuting from their parents to class. San Diego State is great because it has a ton of both. San Jose State is terrible because it has neither. (even though it is in a big market) I don't now much about Texas State, but are they more like us, or more like San Jose State? EDIT: For example, Wyoming has 100% of no people, and SJSU has 0% of tons of people. There's another element, and that's where alumni live. NMSU for example - Las Cruces has population around 120k, but a very large percentage of students comes from the Albuquerque area (560k). Families of those students watch NMSU games on TV. The Albuquerque people have a strong tendency to remain in Albuquerque after they graduate. When you grow up in NM you usually grow up as either an Aggie fan or a Lobo fan, so you can easily make an argument that the NMSU media market should include both the El Paso and Albuquerque DMAs. The TV gods don't consider stuff like that though. Texas State is viewed as having tons of potential. San Marcos is midway between San Antonio and Austin. The town itself isn't that big - around 70k. The thing with them is they're in the shadow of UT. On the one hand, that's football crazy country, but on the other hand, how long can they continue being UT's forgotten step sibling? It's not unlike the situation with SDSU and UCLA. |
|
|
|
Post by LostAztec on Nov 15, 2024 11:20:03 GMT -8
It's ridiculous if you think about it, bordering on absurd. NMSU is a natural fit geographically and culturally. The MWC is always coming up with excuses for passing us up. Don't have big enough athletics budget. Too hard to get to Las Cruces. Too small of a media market. Inadequate facilities. Then they turn to the likes of Sam Houston and North Dakota State. Sam Houston has JUCO-like facilities, draws very poorly, is in a very small market, and budgets about $10 million less than NMSU. NDSU - well they're in Fargo which is roughly the same size as Las Cruces, except it's a 3.5 hour drive in good weather to the closest big city. NMSU is 45 minutes from El Paso Airport. Fargo does have an airport but it gets a whopping 10 flights a day, almost all puddle jumpers from MSP and Chicago. NMSU has a nice 30k seat football stadium and a nice 12k seat basketball arena. The Las Cruces/El Paso DMA is 89th in the country. The Fargo DMA is about 150th. With NMSU it boils down to what I've said all along - UNM doesn't want us in the conference, even more so now that UTEP is in the conference. Now two out of three legs of the rivalry triangle are against us. It's fine with us though. We're happy in CUSA. Losing UTEP as a conference mate stings a little. Our next closest conference mate is about 600 miles away now, and we still have Liberty and their obnoxiousness to deal with (Liberty is to CUSA what BYU was to the WAC/MWC back in the day), but overall it's a great fit. NMSU doesn't add tv value. NIU and Texas State do. |
|
|
|
Post by sdsuball on Nov 15, 2024 11:30:31 GMT -8
It's ridiculous if you think about it, bordering on absurd. NMSU is a natural fit geographically and culturally. The MWC is always coming up with excuses for passing us up. Don't have big enough athletics budget. Too hard to get to Las Cruces. Too small of a media market. Inadequate facilities. Then they turn to the likes of Sam Houston and North Dakota State. Sam Houston has JUCO-like facilities, draws very poorly, is in a very small market, and budgets about $10 million less than NMSU. NDSU - well they're in Fargo which is roughly the same size as Las Cruces, except it's a 3.5 hour drive in good weather to the closest big city. NMSU is 45 minutes from El Paso Airport. Fargo does have an airport but it gets a whopping 10 flights a day, almost all puddle jumpers from MSP and Chicago. NMSU has a nice 30k seat football stadium and a nice 12k seat basketball arena. The Las Cruces/El Paso DMA is 89th in the country. The Fargo DMA is about 150th. With NMSU it boils down to what I've said all along - UNM doesn't want us in the conference, even more so now that UTEP is in the conference. Now two out of three legs of the rivalry triangle are against us. It's fine with us though. We're happy in CUSA. Losing UTEP as a conference mate stings a little. Our next closest conference mate is about 600 miles away now, and we still have Liberty and their obnoxiousness to deal with (Liberty is to CUSA what BYU was to the WAC/MWC back in the day), but overall it's a great fit. I think that TV executives see it from the perspective of, the rivalry games don't have to be played in-conference. Oregon and Oregon State still play their rivalry game despite Oregon being in a new conference. The same can be true of UTEP/NMSU/UNM |
|
|
|
Post by aztucho on Nov 15, 2024 12:16:00 GMT -8
It's ridiculous if you think about it, bordering on absurd. NMSU is a natural fit geographically and culturally. The MWC is always coming up with excuses for passing us up. Don't have big enough athletics budget. Too hard to get to Las Cruces. Too small of a media market. Inadequate facilities. Then they turn to the likes of Sam Houston and North Dakota State. Sam Houston has JUCO-like facilities, draws very poorly, is in a very small market, and budgets about $10 million less than NMSU. NDSU - well they're in Fargo which is roughly the same size as Las Cruces, except it's a 3.5 hour drive in good weather to the closest big city. NMSU is 45 minutes from El Paso Airport. Fargo does have an airport but it gets a whopping 10 flights a day, almost all puddle jumpers from MSP and Chicago. NMSU has a nice 30k seat football stadium and a nice 12k seat basketball arena. The Las Cruces/El Paso DMA is 89th in the country. The Fargo DMA is about 150th. With NMSU it boils down to what I've said all along - UNM doesn't want us in the conference, even more so now that UTEP is in the conference. Now two out of three legs of the rivalry triangle are against us. It's fine with us though. We're happy in CUSA. Losing UTEP as a conference mate stings a little. Our next closest conference mate is about 600 miles away now, and we still have Liberty and their obnoxiousness to deal with (Liberty is to CUSA what BYU was to the WAC/MWC back in the day), but overall it's a great fit. I think that TV executives see it from the perspective of, the rivalry games don't have to be played in-conference. Oregon and Oregon State still play their rivalry game despite Oregon being in a new conference. The same can be true of UTEP/NMSU/UNM Agreed, UNM is the market leader and deserves to be in the best Football and Basketball conference. All other sports can UNM/UTEP/UNM share a conference if they want. That is why I am nervous about adding a school like Texas State, who might be the 5th of 6th ranked school in their own market, based on Market Share. When they talk about college sports on the local news, which is the school they bring up first? That is the school we should target, assuming there are enough people watching said news. |
|
|
|
Post by panammaniac on Nov 15, 2024 12:26:32 GMT -8
It's ridiculous if you think about it, bordering on absurd. NMSU is a natural fit geographically and culturally. The MWC is always coming up with excuses for passing us up. Don't have big enough athletics budget. Too hard to get to Las Cruces. Too small of a media market. Inadequate facilities. Then they turn to the likes of Sam Houston and North Dakota State. Sam Houston has JUCO-like facilities, draws very poorly, is in a very small market, and budgets about $10 million less than NMSU. NDSU - well they're in Fargo which is roughly the same size as Las Cruces, except it's a 3.5 hour drive in good weather to the closest big city. NMSU is 45 minutes from El Paso Airport. Fargo does have an airport but it gets a whopping 10 flights a day, almost all puddle jumpers from MSP and Chicago. NMSU has a nice 30k seat football stadium and a nice 12k seat basketball arena. The Las Cruces/El Paso DMA is 89th in the country. The Fargo DMA is about 150th. With NMSU it boils down to what I've said all along - UNM doesn't want us in the conference, even more so now that UTEP is in the conference. Now two out of three legs of the rivalry triangle are against us. It's fine with us though. We're happy in CUSA. Losing UTEP as a conference mate stings a little. Our next closest conference mate is about 600 miles away now, and we still have Liberty and their obnoxiousness to deal with (Liberty is to CUSA what BYU was to the WAC/MWC back in the day), but overall it's a great fit. I think that TV executives see it from the perspective of, the rivalry games don't have to be played in-conference. Oregon and Oregon State still play their rivalry game despite Oregon being in a new conference. The same can be true of UTEP/NMSU/UNM NIU and Texas State do (although Texas Stare is debatable because they’re in an already very saturated market in the shadow of an SEC school). NDSU on the other hand doesn’t. |
|
|
|
Post by aztech on Nov 15, 2024 12:28:06 GMT -8
I ran the numbers for the populations within an hour of each school below. Safe to assume we should be focusing on schools with both good Football teams and in Markets over 1M people. Laramie, Wyoming.....woof. Sacramento State and Texas State are in bigger markets than we are! School: Population (60 mi) San Diego State: 3,483,364 Fresno: 1,841,014 Utah State: 1,103,779 (Keep in mind SLC is 80 mi) Boise: 1,004,594 Oregon State: 1,186,670 Colorado State: 3,202,133 Wyoming: 146,720 Sacramento State: 4,134,588 Texas State: 5,172,292 Where in hell did you get those population numbers? For example, the entire state of Utah only has a population of about 3.5 million. All your listed populations from Boise on down are ridiculous. Also no way they're viewing numbers. |
|
|
|
Post by aztucho on Nov 15, 2024 12:29:09 GMT -8
We need to stop talking about the Dakotas all together.
|
|
|
|
Post by aztucho on Nov 15, 2024 12:32:04 GMT -8
I ran the numbers for the populations within an hour of each school below. Safe to assume we should be focusing on schools with both good Football teams and in Markets over 1M people. Laramie, Wyoming.....woof. Sacramento State and Texas State are in bigger markets than we are! School: Population (60 mi) San Diego State: 3,483,364 Fresno: 1,841,014 Utah State: 1,103,779 (Keep in mind SLC is 80 mi) Boise: 1,004,594 Oregon State: 1,186,670 Colorado State: 3,202,133 Wyoming: 146,720 Sacramento State: 4,134,588 Texas State: 5,172,292 Where in hell did you get those population numbers? For example, the entire state of Utah only has a population of about 3.5 million. All your listed populations from Boise on down are ridiculous. I have access to ESRI software that pulls these numbers. They are based on 60 miles from the major Hwy intersections near each school. If you want me to private message you the actual report I can. For example, 60 miles from Utah State covers a significant portion of the north Half of Utah. Maybe don't come at me with the strong language if you don't know how I pulled the data, Bro. |
|
|
|
Post by aztech on Nov 15, 2024 12:36:22 GMT -8
Where in hell did you get those population numbers? For example, the entire state of Utah only has a population of about 3.5 million. All your listed populations from Boise on down are ridiculous. I have access to ESRI software that pulls these numbers. They are based on 60 miles from the major Hwy intersections near each school. If you want me to private message you the actual report I can. Please don't. |
|
|
|
Post by aztucho on Nov 15, 2024 12:37:55 GMT -8
I have access to ESRI software that pulls these numbers. They are based on 60 miles from the major Hwy intersections near each school. If you want me to private message you the actual report I can. Please don't. LOL, so you can keep believing something that isn't true. Got it. |
|
