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Post by aztecryan on Jun 8, 2024 8:05:25 GMT -8
Yes. But that doesn't really answer the question of whether its the right decision. The muscles around the joint can be strengthened to improve the joint stability. His swing became less explosive after surgery. Once the joint is inflamed from injury, all the musculature in the world won't help because the muscles react to the inflammation from the injury, get pissed off, and they become inflamed as well - which then involves the connective tissue, ligaments, capsule. It's a cascading mess. Every time his shoulder joint is further compromised, more damage is done to the inside capsule. I had to have mine scoped and scooped as the ortho described it - twice now. The decision had to be based on the damages up to that point and the probability of repetitive injuries. Who knows how his motorcycle accident added to this situation. But at any level of involvement, it wasn't a positive one. I'm with the notion that if we have tools we can use to fix the problems rather than just continuing to treat the symptoms - shots, rest, slings, etc. so just keep putting off the inevitable - then get the job done before the decreased health of the joint makes a fix impossible. There is a point at which the joint just needs to be replaced - not knowing the severity of Junior's injury makes that a hard call - but doing that would probably be a career ender. So maybe better to lock in a fix now, and hope that it keeps him going for another decade or so. But given the history that we know about, it seems logical that at some point in his life, the joint will need replacement. Yep. After 16 years of torturing my body, both of my shoulders are shot to hell. It's definitely not something I'd want to endure forever. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 8, 2024 11:32:25 GMT -8
S**t, just TWO DAYS ago you said that the *data* is showing, over large sample size of plate appearances, that Fernando picking it up is an unlikely scenario. Who are you fooling. Sheesh. First of all, that post says "BOTH PLAYERS picking it up is an unlikely scenario." That refers to both Fernando AND Manny. Secondly, (I don't know why I'm justifying anything to you, but I will, for clarity) - His last two or three weeks have seen a marked increase in the metrics you look for - Hard hit rate, EV50 and average exit velocity. Third, that post from May 9th, where I talked about his heart of the plate swing/take run value, he's destroying fastballs now and has added six runs of value against four seamers in less than a month. I don't rush to judgment and declare guys "back" until I see indicators that it could happen. Even then, I try not to. Things can change quickly. He's running a .488 BABIP over the last two weeks and the power hadn't shown up fully yet. Baseball is weird. We'll see. It doesn't matter that you were talking about both. I'm talking about what you said, just a FEW DAYS AGO, about how the data shows that Fernando picking it up is a an unlikely scenario, and now,all of sudden, you're saying the days on Fernando has changed. That's the point. Not only that, but the other negative "opinions" about Fernando that you made in which you try to bring across as facts. I always said that you count out a guy with his kind of talent. On top of that, it was way too early to make some kind of "data" opinion on the likes of Fernando. It was really odd, and seemed not genuine at all that you jumped back on the Fernando wagon after ripping him quite a bit lately. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jun 8, 2024 12:53:37 GMT -8
First of all, that post says "BOTH PLAYERS picking it up is an unlikely scenario." That refers to both Fernando AND Manny. Secondly, (I don't know why I'm justifying anything to you, but I will, for clarity) - His last two or three weeks have seen a marked increase in the metrics you look for - Hard hit rate, EV50 and average exit velocity. Third, that post from May 9th, where I talked about his heart of the plate swing/take run value, he's destroying fastballs now and has added six runs of value against four seamers in less than a month. I don't rush to judgment and declare guys "back" until I see indicators that it could happen. Even then, I try not to. Things can change quickly. He's running a .488 BABIP over the last two weeks and the power hadn't shown up fully yet. Baseball is weird. We'll see. It doesn't matter that you were talking about both. I'm talking about what you said, just a FEW DAYS AGO, about how the data shows that Fernando picking it up is a an unlikely scenario, and now,all of sudden, you're saying the days on Fernando has changed. That's the point. Not only that, but the other negative "opinions" about Fernando that you made in which you try to bring across as facts. I always said that you count out a guy with his kind of talent. On top of that, it was way too early to make some kind of "data" opinion on the likes of Fernando. It was really odd, and seemed not genuine at all that you jumped back on the Fernando wagon after ripping him quite a bit lately. The only thing that's odd is your inability to read and understand basic sentence structure, honestly. It's not all that hard to include the word "both" and understand what that means in this case. I don't care what you think is odd, or not genuine, personally. You never have a solid stance on literally anything, so maybe focus on your own integrity? You have *zero* room to be critical of anyone, when you frame arguments disingenuously all the time. The fact you think 750 plate appearances is "way too early" (quoting you directly) is pretty humorous. The reality is a lot of people have been saying Fernando is back for WEEKS, but I still had questions. It's the nature of statistics, what's quantifiable and sustainable? No more bait. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 8, 2024 13:24:11 GMT -8
It doesn't matter that you were talking about both. I'm talking about what you said, just a FEW DAYS AGO, about how the data shows that Fernando picking it up is a an unlikely scenario, and now,all of sudden, you're saying the days on Fernando has changed. That's the point. Not only that, but the other negative "opinions" about Fernando that you made in which you try to bring across as facts. I always said that you count out a guy with his kind of talent. On top of that, it was way too early to make some kind of "data" opinion on the likes of Fernando. It was really odd, and seemed not genuine at all that you jumped back on the Fernando wagon after ripping him quite a bit lately. The only thing that's odd is your inability to read and understand basic sentence structure, honestly. It's not all that hard to include the word "both" and understand what that means in this case. I don't care what you think is odd, or not genuine, personally. You never have a solid stance on literally anything, so maybe focus on your own integrity? You have *zero* room to be critical of anyone, when you frame arguments disingenuously all the time. The fact you think 750 plate appearances is "way too early" (quoting you directly) is pretty humorous. The reality is a lot of people have been saying Fernando is back for WEEKS, but I still had questions. It's the nature of statistics, what's quantifiable and sustainable? No more bait. Bait, no. Just holding you accountable for the MANY situations that you like to portray as facts and then..... they're not. The expected response from you was to deflect, deflect, deflect and you didn't disappoint. No accountability. It'll be year round sunshine in Portland when that happens. You go to the sentence structure card. No, it's plain for all to see what you meant, and backed up by your other negative responses about him. So, in two days you completely reversed course. Who influenced you to that? I bet there's not any others that would say "Fernando's unlikely to pick it up" and then two days later say that "Fernando's picked it up." Lol. If there is, then they deserve the same call out. Come on now. You try to hold people accountable, but when it's you, you give your patented spin instead of just saying, "I shouldn't have spoken so soon." You make A LOT of predictions all over this board. They're not hard to miss. They're constantly in our face as if you're all knowing. When you get questioned, you back track, spin or deny. We're used to it. Wrong again. I did make a Fernando prediction. I said that he's too talented to not pick it up. It's too early for him. So there's that. You look like a hypocrite. Two day, full on, reversal? Ok, but admit that you had it wrong. You can't/won't. It's not in your DNA. Sad. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jun 8, 2024 13:38:15 GMT -8
The only thing that's odd is your inability to read and understand basic sentence structure, honestly. It's not all that hard to include the word "both" and understand what that means in this case. I don't care what you think is odd, or not genuine, personally. You never have a solid stance on literally anything, so maybe focus on your own integrity? You have *zero* room to be critical of anyone, when you frame arguments disingenuously all the time. The fact you think 750 plate appearances is "way too early" (quoting you directly) is pretty humorous. The reality is a lot of people have been saying Fernando is back for WEEKS, but I still had questions. It's the nature of statistics, what's quantifiable and sustainable? No more bait. Bait, no. Just holding you accountable for the MANY situations that you like to portray as facts and then..... they're not. The expected response from you was to deflect, deflect, deflect and you didn't disappoint. No accountability. It'll be year round sunshine in Portland when that happens. You go to the sentence structure card. No, it's plain for all to see what you meant, and backed up by your other negative responses about him. So, in two days you completely reversed course. Who influenced you to that? I bet there's not any others that would say "Fernando's unlikely to pick it up" and then two days later say that "Fernando's picked it up." Lol. If there is, then they deserve the same call out. Come on now. You try to hold people accountable, but when it's you, you give your patented spin instead of just saying, "I shouldn't have spoken so soon." You make A LOT of predictions all over this board. They're not hard to miss. They're constantly in our face as if you're all knowing. When you get questioned, you back track, spin or deny. We're used to it. You look like a hypocrite. Two day, full on, reversal? Ok, but admit that you had it wrong. You can't/won't. It's not in your DNA. Sad. It's not your job to hold someone else accountable for statements you don't make. Get a grip, get a life. Get some integrity, as you don't even hold yourself accountable for the nonsense you spread. "I haven't done enough research yet" - Uh, okay. Get to work on that, worry about the actions of others when your hands are clean, you know? Imagine how misguided you have to be as a human to spread this image of righteousness and everything that you preach in your beliefs. Fraudulent, when you consistently don't apply it to your own behavior. What influenced me to make two separate statements? A deeper dive into the numbers, a recent FanGraphs article on Manny and some conversations I had with a few other people. Turned me on to a different stat I didn't even pay attention to previously at all, as it's easy to fall for certain things like hitting the ball hard as a sign of "improvement." I'll look like a hypocrite. Fine. Somehow, I'll survive. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 8, 2024 13:53:10 GMT -8
Bait, no. Just holding you accountable for the MANY situations that you like to portray as facts and then..... they're not. The expected response from you was to deflect, deflect, deflect and you didn't disappoint. No accountability. It'll be year round sunshine in Portland when that happens. You go to the sentence structure card. No, it's plain for all to see what you meant, and backed up by your other negative responses about him. So, in two days you completely reversed course. Who influenced you to that? I bet there's not any others that would say "Fernando's unlikely to pick it up" and then two days later say that "Fernando's picked it up." Lol. If there is, then they deserve the same call out. Come on now. You try to hold people accountable, but when it's you, you give your patented spin instead of just saying, "I shouldn't have spoken so soon." You make A LOT of predictions all over this board. They're not hard to miss. They're constantly in our face as if you're all knowing. When you get questioned, you back track, spin or deny. We're used to it. You look like a hypocrite. Two day, full on, reversal? Ok, but admit that you had it wrong. You can't/won't. It's not in your DNA. Sad. It's not your job to hold someone else accountable for statements you don't make. Get a grip, get a life. Get some integrity, as you don't even hold yourself accountable for the nonsense you spread. "I haven't done enough research yet" - Uh, okay. Get to work on that, worry about the actions of others when your hands are clean, you know? Imagine how misguided you have to be as a human to spread this image of righteousness and everything that you preach in your beliefs. Fraudulent, when you consistently don't apply it to your own behavior. What influenced me to make two separate statements? A deeper dive into the numbers, a recent FanGraphs article on Manny and some conversations I had with a few other people. Turned me on to a different stat I didn't even pay attention to previously at all, as it's easy to fall for certain things like hitting the ball hard as a sign of "improvement." I'll look like a hypocrite. Fine. Somehow, I'll survive. Oh boy. Here we go. You REALLY need to live by your first sentence. Yeah, get a grip. Get a life. Get some integrity falls big time on you bud. Another hypocrite statement by you, because you don't live by that. Wow. Hands are clean. If I'm wrong about something, I don't spin it. I'll say that I have it wrong, and THEN I'll give my new statement on the situation. It has nothing to do with righteousness. It has everything to do with a guy who has an tremendous ego, a guy that thinks he knows it all, my OPINION is right and yours is wrong, treats people like crap on AztecMesa and is a First Team All American Spinner. You give it out, but can't take it when you're called out. You're a bully. Own it. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jun 8, 2024 14:24:26 GMT -8
It's not your job to hold someone else accountable for statements you don't make. Get a grip, get a life. Get some integrity, as you don't even hold yourself accountable for the nonsense you spread. "I haven't done enough research yet" - Uh, okay. Get to work on that, worry about the actions of others when your hands are clean, you know? Imagine how misguided you have to be as a human to spread this image of righteousness and everything that you preach in your beliefs. Fraudulent, when you consistently don't apply it to your own behavior. What influenced me to make two separate statements? A deeper dive into the numbers, a recent FanGraphs article on Manny and some conversations I had with a few other people. Turned me on to a different stat I didn't even pay attention to previously at all, as it's easy to fall for certain things like hitting the ball hard as a sign of "improvement." I'll look like a hypocrite. Fine. Somehow, I'll survive. Oh boy. Here we go. You REALLY need to live by your first sentence. Yeah, get a grip. Get a life. Get some integrity falls big time on you bud. Another hypocrite statement by you, because you don't live by that. Wow. Hands are clean. If I'm wrong about something, I don't spin it. I'll say that I have it wrong, and THEN I'll give my new statement on the situation. It has nothing to do with righteousness. It has everything to do with a guy who has an tremendous ego, a guy that thinks he knows it all, my OPINION is right and yours is wrong, treats people like crap on AztecMesa and is a First Team All American Spinner. You give it out, but can't take it when you're called out. You're a bully. Own it. Thanks for the laugh. You spend more time attacking my character than you do with largely anything else. It's okay. Water under the bridge. If you'd actually like to know why my *opinion* changed, it's actually pretty interesting stuff. But it's baseball-related, not me-related. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 8, 2024 14:36:31 GMT -8
Oh boy. Here we go. You REALLY need to live by your first sentence. Yeah, get a grip. Get a life. Get some integrity falls big time on you bud. Another hypocrite statement by you, because you don't live by that. Wow. Hands are clean. If I'm wrong about something, I don't spin it. I'll say that I have it wrong, and THEN I'll give my new statement on the situation. It has nothing to do with righteousness. It has everything to do with a guy who has an tremendous ego, a guy that thinks he knows it all, my OPINION is right and yours is wrong, treats people like crap on AztecMesa and is a First Team All American Spinner. You give it out, but can't take it when you're called out. You're a bully. Own it. Thanks for the laugh. You spend more time attacking my character than you do with largely anything else. It's okay. Water under the bridge. If you'd actually like to know why my *opinion* changed, it's actually pretty interesting stuff. But it's baseball-related, not me-related. You're the last person to talk when it comes to the subject of someone attacking others character. That's you're forte. As if you never attack my character. That's where I'll thank you for the big laugh, hypocritical comment. Like I said before to you, Fernando is much too talented to write him off this early in the season. I don't care about the amount of at bats he has at this point, data can be wrong when it comes to someone of his nature. I could end up being wrong after the years over, but let's hope not. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jun 8, 2024 14:50:30 GMT -8
Thanks for the laugh. You spend more time attacking my character than you do with largely anything else. It's okay. Water under the bridge. If you'd actually like to know why my *opinion* changed, it's actually pretty interesting stuff. But it's baseball-related, not me-related. You're the last person to talk when it comes to the subject of someone attacking others character. That's you're forte. As if you never attack my character. That's where I'll thank you for the big laugh, hypocritical comment. Like I said before to you, Fernando is much too talented to write him off this early in the season. I don't care about the amount of at bats he has at this point, data can be wrong when it comes to someone of his nature. I could end up being wrong after the years over, but let's hope not. Weird, because you completely came after me unsolicited here after I made a generic post, not even addressed to or mentioning yourself. All good. The data I was referring to includes last year, I wasn't talking about specifically this season. That's where that 750 plate appearances number comes in. He's made serious gains in some good areas. Time will tell. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 8, 2024 15:00:03 GMT -8
You're the last person to talk when it comes to the subject of someone attacking others character. That's you're forte. As if you never attack my character. That's where I'll thank you for the big laugh, hypocritical comment. Like I said before to you, Fernando is much too talented to write him off this early in the season. I don't care about the amount of at bats he has at this point, data can be wrong when it comes to someone of his nature. I could end up being wrong after the years over, but let's hope not. Weird, because you completely came after me unsolicited here after I made a generic post, not even addressed to or mentioning yourself. All good. The data I was referring to includes last year, I wasn't talking about specifically this season. That's where that 750 plate appearances number comes in. He's made serious gains in some good areas. Time will tell. Well, my first post said, "So now you're bullish on Tatis?" Whatever. Moving on. I feel that Tatis is one of those players that you can't look at data in that nature and predict that he's not going to pick it up again throughout the year at some point. Many players, after taking a breather and self reflecting, and looking at more film, healing from an injury, etc, at the All Stat Break, do pick it up and have an excellent second half. Tatis is one of those players that is too talented to count out. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jun 8, 2024 15:49:00 GMT -8
Machado did some work on the field today. Could be back tomorrow, optimistically.
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 8, 2024 17:45:28 GMT -8
Nice to see the bottom of the order contribute as of late.
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Post by aztecryan on Jun 8, 2024 17:54:53 GMT -8
Ha-seong is so perplexing. So many tools. What he is valued like on the open market will be fascinating.
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 8, 2024 17:56:38 GMT -8
Croney's in the house!!! See ya!!! Bomb!!!
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 8, 2024 17:59:11 GMT -8
We're actually hitting at home. Amazing!!!
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 8, 2024 18:19:15 GMT -8
GREAT job by Waldron to get out of that inning with allowing only one run. Excellent.
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 8, 2024 19:29:08 GMT -8
Merrill, great catch!!! What a stud.
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Post by aztecryan on Jun 8, 2024 19:35:22 GMT -8
Second time ever the Padres have scored 10+ at home in consecutive fashion. Sure beats the UFC card I just witnessed.
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Post by sdsuball on Jun 8, 2024 20:22:45 GMT -8
Yes. But that doesn't really answer the question of whether its the right decision. The muscles around the joint can be strengthened to improve the joint stability. His swing became less explosive after surgery. Once the joint is inflamed from injury, all the musculature in the world won't help because the muscles react to the inflammation from the injury, get pissed off, and they become inflamed as well - which then involves the connective tissue, ligaments, capsule. It's a cascading mess. Every time his shoulder joint is further compromised, more damage is done to the inside capsule. I had to have mine scoped and scooped as the ortho described it - twice now. The decisions made - for both of us - were likely based on the damages up to that point and the likelihood of further, repetitive injuries. Who knows what Jr's motorcycle accident added to his own situation. But at any level of involvement, it definitely wasn't a positive one. I'm with the notion that if we have tools we can use to fix the problems rather than just continuing to treat the symptoms - shots, rest, slings, etc. so just keep putting off the inevitable - then get the job done before the decreased health of the joint makes a fix impossible. There is a point at which the joint just needs to be replaced - not knowing the severity of Junior's injury makes that a hard call - but doing that would probably be a career ender. So maybe better to lock in a fix now, and hope that it keeps him going for another decade or so. But given the history that we know about, it seems logical that at some point in his life, the joint will need replacement. Definitely depends on the severity of the shoulder injury. Bellinger (I believe it was) had the same issue with his hitting after his shoulder surgery. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jun 8, 2024 20:46:53 GMT -8
Once the joint is inflamed from injury, all the musculature in the world won't help because the muscles react to the inflammation from the injury, get pissed off, and they become inflamed as well - which then involves the connective tissue, ligaments, capsule. It's a cascading mess. Every time his shoulder joint is further compromised, more damage is done to the inside capsule. I had to have mine scoped and scooped as the ortho described it - twice now. The decisions made - for both of us - were likely based on the damages up to that point and the likelihood of further, repetitive injuries. Who knows what Jr's motorcycle accident added to his own situation. But at any level of involvement, it definitely wasn't a positive one. I'm with the notion that if we have tools we can use to fix the problems rather than just continuing to treat the symptoms - shots, rest, slings, etc. so just keep putting off the inevitable - then get the job done before the decreased health of the joint makes a fix impossible. There is a point at which the joint just needs to be replaced - not knowing the severity of Junior's injury makes that a hard call - but doing that would probably be a career ender. So maybe better to lock in a fix now, and hope that it keeps him going for another decade or so. But given the history that we know about, it seems logical that at some point in his life, the joint will need replacement. Definitely depends on the severity of the shoulder injury. Bellinger (I believe it was) had the same issue with his hitting after his shoulder surgery. Took him three full years to recover, but he was never on Fernando's level to begin with, outside of a one year fluke. |
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