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Post by aztecryan on Jul 15, 2024 13:09:21 GMT -8
I don't care what you like. Respect is earned, not given. Your consistent attacks, even when I'm not talking to you at all, are petty and unnecessary. I can disagree with you, you can disagree with me. Fine. Dandy. And no, they aren't different at all. He said "They are fortunate to be where they are, despite all the injuries." That's true. It also lends credibility to the giant holes you can't fix at the deadline, all at the same time. Not all that complicated, you just want to argue. Yes, it's not complicated at all. He didn't say that he wanted to sell and concentrate on 2025 in his post, but you did. Huge difference between the two. You said that you said the same thing as Azson. No you didn't. You just want to leave that part out. Moving on. What is your actual opposition to selling? You apparently didn't care enough to call out Junior, so what is it about my point specifically? |
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 15, 2024 13:26:37 GMT -8
Yes, it's not complicated at all. He didn't say that he wanted to sell and concentrate on 2025 in his post, but you did. Huge difference between the two. You said that you said the same thing as Azson. No you didn't. You just want to leave that part out. Moving on. What is your actual opposition to selling? You apparently didn't care enough to call out Junior, so what is it about my point specifically? I oppose selling for 2025 as you stated you would do, unless we tank by the deadline, and/or we have word that Tatis and Musgrove are not going to be able to help us this year. I initially reacted to you the same way I reacted to Junior, which was me bring against it. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 15, 2024 13:40:15 GMT -8
What is your actual opposition to selling? You apparently didn't care enough to call out Junior, so what is it about my point specifically? I oppose selling for 2025 as you stated you would do, unless we tank by the deadline, and/or we have word that Tatis and Musgrove are not going to be able to help us this year. I initially reacted to you the same way I reacted to Junior, which was me bring against it. But the manner you dealt with it was entirely different...no personal attack, no petty comment, nothing. Just odd. But, that's fair. I'll just go back to what I've said: Hope isn't a strategy. You're looking at the situation as a fan, I'm trying to analyze the situation objectively, knowing their limitations, knowing the ownership goals, knowing the injury situations and how far away they actually are. Selling at the deadline, again, isn't giving up on the season. You have no idea what potential returns could be, what's available, how they can improve their situation. That's my point. |
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Post by junior on Jul 15, 2024 13:41:37 GMT -8
Why would they trade him? Because they are 3 games under .500 and Snell is on a one-year deal. They are in 4th place in the division, and there is no way that four teams make the playoffs out of the NL west with all the games still left to be played inter-division. Snellzilla will almost certainly want to get "back" on the market next season or ASAP - at least if he can do so without a bunch of contractual problems. He (and possibly his agent) really shafted themselves this year. By sitting out the entire spring, and then coming back in too soon, he lost the bulk of the season. It wasn't "the smart choice"… |
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 15, 2024 13:49:41 GMT -8
Because they are 3 games under .500 and Snell is on a one-year deal. They are in 4th place in the division, and there is no way that four teams make the playoffs out of the NL west with all the games still left to be played inter-division. Snellzilla will almost certainly want to get "back" on the market next season or ASAP - at least if he can do so without a bunch of contractual problems. He (and possibly his agent) really shafted themselves this year. By sitting out the entire spring, and then coming back in too soon, he lost the bulk of the season. It wasn't "the smart choice"… Unless he has an absolutely dominant second half, I don't see a scenario where he does better than $31M AAV in a more crowded market. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 15, 2024 13:52:08 GMT -8
I oppose selling for 2025 as you stated you would do, unless we tank by the deadline, and/or we have word that Tatis and Musgrove are not going to be able to help us this year. I initially reacted to you the same way I reacted to Junior, which was me bring against it. But the manner you dealt with it was entirely different...no personal attack, no petty comment, nothing. Just odd. But, that's fair. I'll just go back to what I've said: Hope isn't a strategy. You're looking at the situation as a fan, I'm trying to analyze the situation objectively, knowing their limitations, knowing the ownership goals, knowing the injury situations and how far away they actually are. Selling at the deadline, again, isn't giving up on the season. You have no idea what potential returns could be, what's available, how they can improve their situation. That's my point. That's because Junior hasn't called me names EVER, amongst a host of other issues, such as not being condescending or egotistical. I can tell you what you've called me if you'd like. It's a long list. I'll give it back, and you've given me plenty. Anybody would be bitter over that. I wish I wasn't, but it gets the best of me sometimes, just like your passion gets the best of you. I understand that selling doesn't mean giving up, but that's what you said you would do, give up on this season and concentrate on 2025. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 15, 2024 13:54:30 GMT -8
But the manner you dealt with it was entirely different...no personal attack, no petty comment, nothing. Just odd. But, that's fair. I'll just go back to what I've said: Hope isn't a strategy. You're looking at the situation as a fan, I'm trying to analyze the situation objectively, knowing their limitations, knowing the ownership goals, knowing the injury situations and how far away they actually are. Selling at the deadline, again, isn't giving up on the season. You have no idea what potential returns could be, what's available, how they can improve their situation. That's my point. That's because Junior hasn't called me names EVER, amongst a host of other issues, such as not being condescending or egotistical. I can tell you what you've called me if you'd like. It's a long list. I'll give it back, and you've given me plenty. Anybody would be bitter over that. I wish I wasn't, but it gets the best of me sometimes, just like your passion gets the best of you. Take some friendly advice: If you're bitter about the Internet, click it and forget it in five minutes. Don't let it ruin your emotional health. It's a lot like being a Padre fan. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 15, 2024 13:57:39 GMT -8
That's because Junior hasn't called me names EVER, amongst a host of other issues, such as not being condescending or egotistical. I can tell you what you've called me if you'd like. It's a long list. I'll give it back, and you've given me plenty. Anybody would be bitter over that. I wish I wasn't, but it gets the best of me sometimes, just like your passion gets the best of you. Take some friendly advice: If you're bitter about the Internet, click it and forget it in five minutes. Don't let it ruin your emotional health. It's a lot like being a Padre fan. Oh, I do that. Those issues are a pet peeve of mine. Good advice though. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 15, 2024 14:04:50 GMT -8
But the manner you dealt with it was entirely different...no personal attack, no petty comment, nothing. Just odd. But, that's fair. I'll just go back to what I've said: Hope isn't a strategy. You're looking at the situation as a fan, I'm trying to analyze the situation objectively, knowing their limitations, knowing the ownership goals, knowing the injury situations and how far away they actually are. Selling at the deadline, again, isn't giving up on the season. You have no idea what potential returns could be, what's available, how they can improve their situation. That's my point. That's because Junior hasn't called me names EVER, amongst a host of other issues, such as not being condescending or egotistical. I can tell you what you've called me if you'd like. It's a long list. I'll give it back, and you've given me plenty. Anybody would be bitter over that. I wish I wasn't, but it gets the best of me sometimes, just like your passion gets the best of you. I understand that selling doesn't mean giving up, but that's what you said you would do, give up on this season and concentrate on 2025. Here's the dilemma, so you understand where I'm coming from. As a fan, you have to accept that one year is just that, one year. Teams operate in long-term windows to increase their viability and sustain long-term success. It's why the control and service time methods are things owners endorse across the board. Do you really want to bring Luis Arraez back at $15M next season, coming off multiple injuries in a park he can't hit in? Are you willing to bank on Jurickson Profar sustaining an .870 OPS over multiple seasons, with no prior track record, in his early 30's? The infield alone next year, assuming Arraez is back: $15M at first base, $11.7M at second base, $25M at shortstop, $31M at third base. That's $82M, over a third of the way to the tax number of $241M. Joe Musgrove and Yu Darvish add $38M to that number. Fernando adds just over $24M. That's another $62M in three players. Suddenly, you're at $145M with only seven players. Dylan Cease? Add another $12M. Michael King? $6M, give or take. Now you're at $165M, with four starting pitchers. You have to decide on what to do with Profar. You have to decide on what to do at catcher. You have to get multiple starting pitchers, in all likelihood. You'll have to replace Kim. You'll have to upgrade the bullpen. And that's before you get to anyone else's arbitration raises. Your best case scenario is you'll have about $40M to address the entire roster, if you keep all the pieces you currently have. That's not a great place to be in. |
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Post by aardvark on Jul 15, 2024 14:08:49 GMT -8
Because they are 3 games under .500 and Snell is on a one-year deal. They are in 4th place in the division, and there is no way that four teams make the playoffs out of the NL west with all the games still left to be played inter-division. Snellzilla will almost certainly want to get "back" on the market next season or ASAP - at least if he can do so without a bunch of contractual problems. He (and possibly his agent) really shafted themselves this year. By sitting out the entire spring, and then coming back in too soon, he lost the bulk of the season. It wasn't "the smart choice"… Snell will be with the Giants through the 2025 season. |
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Post by junior on Jul 15, 2024 16:49:47 GMT -8
Snellzilla will almost certainly want to get "back" on the market next season or ASAP - at least if he can do so without a bunch of contractual problems. He (and possibly his agent) really shafted themselves this year. By sitting out the entire spring, and then coming back in too soon, he lost the bulk of the season. It wasn't "the smart choice"… Snell will be with the Giants through the 2025 season. Two-year contract … but… he can opt-out following this season if I'm not mistaken. |
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Post by aardvark on Jul 15, 2024 17:25:43 GMT -8
Snell will be with the Giants through the 2025 season. Two-year contract … but… he can opt-out following this season if I'm not mistaken. He's not getting more than $31 mil next year. He's staying put. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 15, 2024 18:03:23 GMT -8
That's because Junior hasn't called me names EVER, amongst a host of other issues, such as not being condescending or egotistical. I can tell you what you've called me if you'd like. It's a long list. I'll give it back, and you've given me plenty. Anybody would be bitter over that. I wish I wasn't, but it gets the best of me sometimes, just like your passion gets the best of you. I understand that selling doesn't mean giving up, but that's what you said you would do, give up on this season and concentrate on 2025. Here's the dilemma, so you understand where I'm coming from. As a fan, you have to accept that one year is just that, one year. Teams operate in long-term windows to increase their viability and sustain long-term success. It's why the control and service time methods are things owners endorse across the board. Do you really want to bring Luis Arraez back at $15M next season, coming off multiple injuries in a park he can't hit in? Are you willing to bank on Jurickson Profar sustaining an .870 OPS over multiple seasons, with no prior track record, in his early 30's? The infield alone next year, assuming Arraez is back: $15M at first base, $11.7M at second base, $25M at shortstop, $31M at third base. That's $82M, over a third of the way to the tax number of $241M. Joe Musgrove and Yu Darvish add $38M to that number. Fernando adds just over $24M. That's another $62M in three players. Suddenly, you're at $145M with only seven players. Dylan Cease? Add another $12M. Michael King? $6M, give or take. Now you're at $165M, with four starting pitchers. You have to decide on what to do with Profar. You have to decide on what to do at catcher. You have to get multiple starting pitchers, in all likelihood. You'll have to replace Kim. You'll have to upgrade the bullpen. And that's before you get to anyone else's arbitration raises. Your best case scenario is you'll have about $40M to address the entire roster, if you keep all the pieces you currently have. That's not a great place to be in. I completely understand all of that. The way you're talking about it, it sounds like they ARE going to be selling and looking to 2025, since you said this is what teams do. I think it's more than that. I think the position you're at in the playoff race, injury issues, and where those players are at in terms of health are also something they consider. If they know they won't be coming back to help this year, then that helps make their decision easier. I already said that I would like them to see what they can get for Arraez. You said it before, and I agree, they would be dumb not to see what they can get for Arraez this year. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 15, 2024 18:14:40 GMT -8
Here's the dilemma, so you understand where I'm coming from. As a fan, you have to accept that one year is just that, one year. Teams operate in long-term windows to increase their viability and sustain long-term success. It's why the control and service time methods are things owners endorse across the board. Do you really want to bring Luis Arraez back at $15M next season, coming off multiple injuries in a park he can't hit in? Are you willing to bank on Jurickson Profar sustaining an .870 OPS over multiple seasons, with no prior track record, in his early 30's? The infield alone next year, assuming Arraez is back: $15M at first base, $11.7M at second base, $25M at shortstop, $31M at third base. That's $82M, over a third of the way to the tax number of $241M. Joe Musgrove and Yu Darvish add $38M to that number. Fernando adds just over $24M. That's another $62M in three players. Suddenly, you're at $145M with only seven players. Dylan Cease? Add another $12M. Michael King? $6M, give or take. Now you're at $165M, with four starting pitchers. You have to decide on what to do with Profar. You have to decide on what to do at catcher. You have to get multiple starting pitchers, in all likelihood. You'll have to replace Kim. You'll have to upgrade the bullpen. And that's before you get to anyone else's arbitration raises. Your best case scenario is you'll have about $40M to address the entire roster, if you keep all the pieces you currently have. That's not a great place to be in. I completely understand all of that. The way you're talking about it, it sounds like they ARE going to be selling and looking to 2025, since you said this is what teams do. I think it's more than that. I think the position you're at in the playoff race, injury issues, and where those players are at in terms of health are also something they consider. If they know they won't be coming back to help this year, then that helps make their decision easier. I already said that I would like them to see what they can get for Arraez. You said it before, and I agree, they would be dumb not to see what they can get for Arraez this year. No, that's not at all what I said and it explains a lot of the disconnect. I've said the exact opposite, really. They aren't likely to sell, given the dynamics of Seidler passing away and the pressure on Preller to produce results. Whether they should or not is a different story entirely. You're completely misunderstanding my point. I'm not sure to what end. Teams don't operate in a one year window with payroll, with revenue or with anything, really. That doesn't mean they sell at the deadline, it's just in general how operations are run. Teams that are rebuilding look to the future. Teams in contention are trying to extend their windows, by whatever means they can. All of the variables you're talking about are covered in my explanation. It's not anything new. Where they are at in mid-July isn't a determinative, though. The team isn't going to go "Well, we're 50-49" and make decisions solely based on that. The budget is priority one. Whether or not they get Musgrove, Darvish or Tatis back really shouldn't influence a direction all that much, none of the three are likely to produce enough in time to really change course. |
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Post by sdsuball on Jul 15, 2024 18:36:56 GMT -8
That's because Junior hasn't called me names EVER, amongst a host of other issues, such as not being condescending or egotistical. I can tell you what you've called me if you'd like. It's a long list. I'll give it back, and you've given me plenty. Anybody would be bitter over that. I wish I wasn't, but it gets the best of me sometimes, just like your passion gets the best of you. I understand that selling doesn't mean giving up, but that's what you said you would do, give up on this season and concentrate on 2025. Do you really want to bring Luis Arraez back at $15M next season, coming off multiple injuries in a park he can't hit in? He's almost hitting .400 away from Petco. Pretty crazy home/away splits. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 15, 2024 18:40:22 GMT -8
Do you really want to bring Luis Arraez back at $15M next season, coming off multiple injuries in a park he can't hit in? He's almost hitting .400 away from Petco. Pretty crazy home/away splits. I know. I posted in mid-May that I didn't think he was going to succeed in Petco, and it's proven to be pretty brutal. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 15, 2024 18:50:54 GMT -8
I completely understand all of that. The way you're talking about it, it sounds like they ARE going to be selling and looking to 2025, since you said this is what teams do. I think it's more than that. I think the position you're at in the playoff race, injury issues, and where those players are at in terms of health are also something they consider. If they know they won't be coming back to help this year, then that helps make their decision easier. I already said that I would like them to see what they can get for Arraez. You said it before, and I agree, they would be dumb not to see what they can get for Arraez this year. No, that's not at all what I said and it explains a lot of the disconnect. I've said the exact opposite, really. They aren't likely to sell, given the dynamics of Seidler passing away and the pressure on Preller to produce results. Whether they should or not is a different story entirely. You're completely misunderstanding my point. I'm not sure to what end. Teams don't operate in a one year window with payroll, with revenue or with anything, really. That doesn't mean they sell at the deadline, it's just in general how operations are run. Teams that are rebuilding look to the future. Teams in contention are trying to extend their windows, by whatever means they can. All of the variables you're talking about are covered in my explanation. It's not anything new. Where they are at in mid-July isn't a determinative, though. The team isn't going to go "Well, we're 50-49" and make decisions solely based on that. The budget is priority one. Whether or not they get Musgrove, Darvish or Tatis back really shouldn't influence a direction all that much, none of the three are likely to produce enough in time to really change course. I know you said that you personally would sell and concentrate on 2025, but it came across to me as though you also are saying that teams will typically sell in the Padres situation. Maybe you should have said most teams sell, or something like that, because it seemed as though you were setting up a situation where the Padres are going to sell for 2025. Got it, though. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 15, 2024 18:56:13 GMT -8
No, that's not at all what I said and it explains a lot of the disconnect. I've said the exact opposite, really. They aren't likely to sell, given the dynamics of Seidler passing away and the pressure on Preller to produce results. Whether they should or not is a different story entirely. You're completely misunderstanding my point. I'm not sure to what end. Teams don't operate in a one year window with payroll, with revenue or with anything, really. That doesn't mean they sell at the deadline, it's just in general how operations are run. Teams that are rebuilding look to the future. Teams in contention are trying to extend their windows, by whatever means they can. All of the variables you're talking about are covered in my explanation. It's not anything new. Where they are at in mid-July isn't a determinative, though. The team isn't going to go "Well, we're 50-49" and make decisions solely based on that. The budget is priority one. Whether or not they get Musgrove, Darvish or Tatis back really shouldn't influence a direction all that much, none of the three are likely to produce enough in time to really change course. I know you said that you personally would sell and concentrate on 2025, but it came across to me as though you also are saying that teams will typically sell in the Padres situation. Maybe you should have said most teams sell, or something like that, because it seemed as though you were setting up a situation where the Padres are going to sell for 2025. Got it, though. In my opinion, given the options, they should explore selling to reduce payroll and get more balanced. I don't see them as a contender to win the World Series, the track record of inconsistency is pretty telling. |
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Post by sdsuball on Jul 15, 2024 18:56:18 GMT -8
No, that's not at all what I said and it explains a lot of the disconnect. I've said the exact opposite, really. They aren't likely to sell, given the dynamics of Seidler passing away and the pressure on Preller to produce results. Whether they should or not is a different story entirely. You're completely misunderstanding my point. I'm not sure to what end. Teams don't operate in a one year window with payroll, with revenue or with anything, really. That doesn't mean they sell at the deadline, it's just in general how operations are run. Teams that are rebuilding look to the future. Teams in contention are trying to extend their windows, by whatever means they can. All of the variables you're talking about are covered in my explanation. It's not anything new. Where they are at in mid-July isn't a determinative, though. The team isn't going to go "Well, we're 50-49" and make decisions solely based on that. The budget is priority one. Whether or not they get Musgrove, Darvish or Tatis back really shouldn't influence a direction all that much, none of the three are likely to produce enough in time to really change course. I know you said that you personally would sell and concentrate on 2025, but it came across to me as though you also are saying that teams will typically sell in the Padres situation. Maybe you should have said most teams sell, or something like that, because it seemed as though you were setting up a situation where the Padres are going to sell for 2025. Got it, though. This 100%. Saying that the Padres should sell, vs. saying that the Padres will sell, are two different things. All of that being said, trading for Arraez and Cease at the beginning of the season isn't really synergistic with selling at the deadline. |
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Post by sdsuball on Jul 15, 2024 19:02:16 GMT -8
I know you said that you personally would sell and concentrate on 2025, but it came across to me as though you also are saying that teams will typically sell in the Padres situation. Maybe you should have said most teams sell, or something like that, because it seemed as though you were setting up a situation where the Padres are going to sell for 2025. Got it, though. In my opinion, given the options, they should explore selling to reduce payroll and get more balanced. I don't see them as a contender to win the World Series, the track record of inconsistency is pretty telling. That was why I didn't like the Soto trade. It traded away too much organizational talent for a rental. It made the team unbalanced. We got lucky to get King back for Soto from the Yankees, and long term Gore + Abrams + Wood will be worth more. |
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