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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 29, 2023 11:18:04 GMT -8
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 29, 2023 11:21:28 GMT -8
Will not happen in our lifetime. |
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Post by aardvark on Sept 29, 2023 11:42:24 GMT -8
Will not happen in our lifetime. Unfortunately, you are correct. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 29, 2023 12:59:15 GMT -8
But SHOULD there be a third party? I see both Trump and Biden as disasters. There are millions and millions of folks in the USA who feel the same way.
AzWm
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 29, 2023 14:00:48 GMT -8
But SHOULD there be a third party. I see both Trump and Biden as disasters. There are millions and millions of folks in the USA who feel the same way. AzWm It doesn't matter what "should" be. The political reality is that we are in a two-party system that has devolved into a battle of extremes on both sides of the spectrum. The power structure won't be threatened by a third party without any real influence or backing behind it. |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 29, 2023 14:49:20 GMT -8
But SHOULD there be a third party. I see both Trump and Biden as disasters. There are millions and millions of folks in the USA who feel the same way. AzWm Trump was a far worse disaster than Biden. And he has become even more of a disaster since being forced out of office. If he gets back in he's going to go full on Mussolini (he's even said as much, stating that he will fire all government employees who are not 100% loyal to him, prosecuting his political, "Enemies," etc). Trump will end democracy as this country has known it. He may already have done so as more than half of the Republican voters believe there was election fraud, even though every single audit showed that Biden won legitimately. Even the audit in Arizona run by the Trump supporters showed a Biden win (and by more votes than the official count). But Trump has convinced a vast majority of Republican voters that elections are rigged when they are not. Democracy cannot survive when 1/2 the voters believe that the system is fraudulent. That's when things like January 6th happen. |
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Post by bnastyaztecs on Sept 29, 2023 15:42:39 GMT -8
I wrote a long time ago why this will never happen...people are wired either to believe in govt or not...the small percentage of the rest are utopians...the problem is the present mindset of the country has nothing to do with government, the economy or democracy...this is about white supremacy...and those who fear the loss of preferred status...life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness don't mean nothing to those who fear competition with non-whites...especially Blacks...with natural selection, drop in white birth rates, and interracial relationships...a lot of whites fear payback and extinction is just around the corner...this is why they are doing all within their power to stave it off...stopping whites from having abortions, stopping immigration from non-Euro countries, stop or make it as hard as possible for minorities to vote...especially Blacks...stop Black economic advancement...jobs, college, student loans, etc...if Blacks win...whites lose...so that's what the 95 percent white Republican party is fighting for...not democracy...but to preserve white privilege/power/supremacy...they could care less about the country...Dems have a lot of white riders too...they benefit no matter what...but most actually believe in democracy and are willing and have confidence to compete...and not rely on white affirmative action (racism, prejudice and discrimination) to prop them up. |
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 29, 2023 16:25:55 GMT -8
RFK Jr. is mulling a run as an Independent, which may have pretty dire consequences.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 29, 2023 16:54:06 GMT -8
Anyone who thinks that an out-of-control President can destroy American democracy must have little faith in our population. What is Trump going to do, eliminate Congress via an executive order? Order the Army to arrest elected Senators and Representatives? You seriously think that could happen?
No doubt such a situation would pose a grave challenge to the country. But this is not the Germany of 1933. Our military has taken an oath to uphold the Constitution. No officer is going to obey such a command by the POTUS. If a POTUS tried to go full-Hitler, his illegal commands would not be obeyed. And within days he POTUS would be impeached.
But you need not worry. Donald Trump is NOT going to win the 2024 election.
AzWm
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 29, 2023 16:57:16 GMT -8
Anyone who thinks that an out-of-control President can destroy American democracy must have little faith in our population. What is Trump going to do, eliminate Congress via an executive order? Order the Army to arrest elected Senators and Representatives? You seriously think that could happen?
No doubt such a situation would pose a grave challenge to the country. But this is not the Germany of 1933. Our military has taken an oath to uphold the Constitution. No officer is going to obey such a command by the POTUS. If a POTUS tried to go full-Hitler, his illegal commands would not be obeyed. And within days he POTUS would be impeached.
But you need noy worry. Donald Trump is NOT going to win the 2024 election.
AzWm Were you around, say, two and a half years ago? Whole big thing at the Capitol. He endorsed having his own VP hanged. Overt threats to democracy come in many different forms. Long-lasting damage to democracy comes in many different forms, too. Undermining faith in public and government institutions. Stripping away of civil rights. It's not quite as simple as you want it to be. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 29, 2023 17:00:07 GMT -8
But SHOULD there be a third party. I see both Trump and Biden as disasters. There are millions and millions of folks in the USA who feel the same way. AzWm Trump was a far worse disaster than Biden. And he has become even more of a disaster since being forced out of office. If he gets back in he's going to go full on Mussolini (he's even said as much, stating that he will fire all government employees who are not 100% loyal to him, prosecuting his political, "Enemies," etc). Trump will end democracy as this country has known it. He may already have done so as more than half of the Republican voters believe there was election fraud, even though every single audit showed that Biden won legitimately. Even the audit in Arizona run by the Trump supporters showed a Biden win (and by more votes than the official count). But Trump has convinced a vast majority of Republican voters that elections are rigged when they are not. Democracy cannot survive when 1/2 the voters believe that the system is fraudulent. That's when things like January 6th happen.
AzWm |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 29, 2023 17:35:23 GMT -8
Trump was a far worse disaster than Biden. And he has become even more of a disaster since being forced out of office. If he gets back in he's going to go full on Mussolini (he's even said as much, stating that he will fire all government employees who are not 100% loyal to him, prosecuting his political, "Enemies," etc). Trump will end democracy as this country has known it. He may already have done so as more than half of the Republican voters believe there was election fraud, even though every single audit showed that Biden won legitimately. Even the audit in Arizona run by the Trump supporters showed a Biden win (and by more votes than the official count). But Trump has convinced a vast majority of Republican voters that elections are rigged when they are not. Democracy cannot survive when 1/2 the voters believe that the system is fraudulent. That's when things like January 6th happen.
AzWmWe've never had a charismatic political figure who could so easily control so many people. They can be presented with facts, shown evidence, absolute, irrefutable proof, and they still won't believe it because Trump says it's a lie. He believes he is above the law and above democracy itself. Trump is a cult leader. |
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Post by sdsuball on Sept 29, 2023 20:42:16 GMT -8
But SHOULD there be a third party. I see both Trump and Biden as disasters. There are millions and millions of folks in the USA who feel the same way. AzWm It doesn't matter what "should" be. The political reality is that we are in a two-party system that has devolved into a battle of extremes on both sides of the spectrum. The power structure won't be threatened by a third party without any real influence or backing behind it. Yeah, you need ranked voting to support more then two parties for the presidential ticket in the US. Then you could vote: 1. New Party Z 2. Rep or Dem 3. Dem or Rep |
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Post by aztecmusician on Sept 30, 2023 4:37:46 GMT -8
Yes, I’m not too thrilled with the grandpa syndrome we currently have.
The main issue with a third party is we will have politicians sent to Washington with 30% of the vote…..kind of like Italy or the UK. That won’t pass muster with most Americans.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Oct 1, 2023 13:34:32 GMT -8
Since many voters (although not one half) believe that the 2020 election was rigged, I guess we should keep out passports up to date so we can flee to Canada when democracy collapses. Be serious. If Democracy could survive the Great Depression, it will be able to survive Trump or Biden.
AzWm We've never had a charismatic political figure who could so easily control so many people. They can be presented with facts, shown evidence, absolute, irrefutable proof, and they still won't believe it because Trump says it's a lie.He believes he is above the law and above democracy itself. Trump is a cult leader.
Furthermore, Trump is no Hitler. Hitler was a master at manipulating German public opinion. Trump did that to a degree here in 2016, but has piled stupid public statements on top of stupid public statements ever since the 2020 election. (Let us not forget that Trump did not receive a majority of the votes for POTUS in 2016.)
The German people were desperate for a leader who would lead them out of the awful situation that they faced. It was not just the Depression, by the way. German had been devastated by the effects of the First World War as well as the punitive terms of the Treaty of Versailles. Despite the bad downturns of the Great Recession and the pandemic, we are not in any way as badly off as the Germans were when Hitler sized power. Our people do not thirst for the prototypical "Man on the White Horse".
Also, it is instructive to remember that Hitler was appointed to the office of chancellor; he was not elected to that post.
There is another factor that works against Trump's chances next year. The vast majority of public media in this country run extremely anti-Trump items on a 24 hour a day basis. No doubt Trump's actions warrant negative reporting, but the degree to which such news aims to condemn him as a threat to the country is over the top. (On the other hand, since before Trump became a politician, much of the public had lost faith in the country's information media.)
In short, even if it is Trump's goal to seize Hitler-like power, he would not be able to do so. But, again I say, there is NO WAY that Trump will win in 2024.
AzWm
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Oct 1, 2023 13:56:06 GMT -8
We've never had a charismatic political figure who could so easily control so many people. They can be presented with facts, shown evidence, absolute, irrefutable proof, and they still won't believe it because Trump says it's a lie.He believes he is above the law and above democracy itself. Trump is a cult leader.
Furthermore, Trump is no Hitler. Hitler was a master at manipulating German public opinion. Trump did that to a degree here in 2016, but has piled stupid public statements on top of stupid public statements ever since the 2020 election. (Let us not forget that Trump did not receive a majority of the votes for POTUS in 2016.)
The German people were desperate for a leader who would lead them out of the awful situation that they faced. It was not just the Depression, by the way. German had been devastated by the effects of the First World War as well as the punitive terms of the Treaty of Versailles. Despite the bad downturns of the Great Recession and the pandemic, we are not in any way as badly off as the Germans were when Hitler sized power. Our people do not thirst for the prototypical "Man on the While Horse".
Also, it is instructive to remember that Hitler was appointed to the office of chancellor; he was not elected to that post.
There is another factor that works against Trump's chances next year. The vast majority of public media in this country run extremely anti-Trump items on a 24 hour a day basis. No doubt Trump's actions warrant negative reporting, but the degree to which such news aims to condemn him as a threat to the country is over the top. (On the other hand, since before Trump became a politician, much of the public had lost faith in the country's information media.)
In short, even if it is Trump's goal to seize Hitler-like power, he would not be able to do so. But, again I say, there is NO WAY that Trump will win in 2024.
AzWm
Do you ever watch CNN? Or just Fox News? It's been PROVEN that Fox does nothing but put out Republican talking points. Behind the scenes documents have shown that they get their marching orders from the Republicans (Trump had a direct connection to them and literally told them what to say in 2020 and early 2021). And while Trump is no Hitler, I do see him as a Mussolini type. Mussolini got elected. OH, and, right now, Trump leads Biden by about 8 points in most polls. A frightening development. You really don't see what's really going on. Trump has brainwashed his followers. The more facts that come out about him literally being a corrupt criminal the more his followers love him. He has higher approval ratings every time something comes out that proves him to be a narcissistic, arrogant, STUPID, reckless criminal. He's found guilty of sexual assault, and his followers praise him and say they don't believe it's true. Have you seen his poll numbers? He OWNS the Republican party. He has given rise to incredibly stupid, racist Republicans like Laurent Boebert, Matt Goetz, Marjorie Taylor-Greene, etc. They all have huge amounts of power, despite being despicable human beings with no allegiance to the actual constitution. They are incredibly dangerous, but they are the exact kind of people that Trump has been propping up. And when he talks about FIRING every single Federal employee who is not 100% loyal to him, what does that remind you of? When he talks about prosecuting his political opponents, what does that remind you of? When he talks about EXECUTING General Mark Milley, what does that remind you of? Seriously, think about it. Donald Trump is a clear and present danger to democracy itself. Look at what's really going on. I did. Neither party is without serious flaws, but right now the Republican Party is incredibly dangerous because they are attempting to convince their followers that elections are rigged and when they lose it must be because of election fraud. Losing is an incredibly important part of democracy. It ensures that the party that loses works harder to find ways to connect to the people and truly do something to represent them. The Republicans don't want to do that, they want to draw up districts that favor them, and create voting laws to disenfranchise minority voters. They're trying to cheat to win rather than coming up with better policies - and that just follows Trump's lead. He's their leader. A cult leader. Oh, and, don't forget - PUTIN was elected, and Trump idolizes Putin. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Oct 1, 2023 14:10:45 GMT -8
Putin was not elected in a free and fair election, so that example carries no weight. But I remain confident in my prediction that Trump will not win in '24.
The Democrats are desperate to put Trump behind bars. If they had any faith in their probable candidate, they would feel assured that '24 is theirs to lose. They have only themselves to blame for putting forward so weak a candidate as Joe Biden.
AzWM
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Post by AztecWilliam on Oct 1, 2023 14:40:00 GMT -8
No, I do not watch CNN. Fox, on the other hand, has real reporters in addition to opinion shows. In the latter category I count Sean Hannity or The Five (since they now seldom if ever have a Dem panelist). Please give me an example of a GOP talking point on Bret Baier's show.
I do, however, watch many shows on YouTube that are SUPER anti-Trump. One such is Glenn Kirshner. It's not that he provides misinformation. It's just that he is so obviously hates Trump and almost certainly hopes he will get 100 years in prison that prevents me from calling his show unbiased. I never get the feeling that he has any interest in presenting information that may be prejudicial to the Left. His whole show is based on hatred of Trump. On wonders what he would do for material if Trump were to drop dead tomorrow! (Actually, I know what he would do. Attack the "MAGA" Republicans.)
Let me comment on Donald Trump. Most (although not absolutely every) bad thing the Left says about Trump I would agree with. But there is a diffence.
I do not hate Trump. The left does!
Here's a comment I got from a discussion on the Internet. It's a criticism of the Left, not Trump.
The reason the Democrats are anxious to get Trump off the ballot (and in a penitentiary) is that they hate and fear him with disturbing intensity. After all, they were beaten by him once in 2016, and are afraid it will happen again in 2024.
In all my years of observing the American political struggle (Left versus Right) I’ve never seen so much ugly hatred of a political figure. Trump has somehow reached into the deepest part of leftist malignancy, and provoked it to blind, raging hostility.
And that’s projection, because leftists always presume to see hatred in their opponents.
AzWm
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 1, 2023 14:54:16 GMT -8
No, I do not watch CNN. Fox, on the other hand, has real reporters in addition to opinion shows. In the latter category I count Sean Hannity or The Five (since they now seldom if ever have a Dem panelist). Please give me an example of a GOP talking point on Bret Baier's show.
I do, however, watch many shows on YouTube that are SUPER anti-Trump. One such is Glenn Kirshner. It's not that he provides misinformation. It's just that he is so obviously hates Trump and almost certainly hopes he will get 100 years in prison that prevents me from calling his show unbiased. I never get the feeling that he has any interest in presenting information that may be prejudicial to the Left. His whole show is based on hatred of Trump. On wonders what he would do for material if Trump were to drop dead tomorrow! (Actually, I know what he would do. Attack the "MAGA" Republicans.)
Let me comment on Donald Trump. Most (although not absolutely ever) bad thing the Left says about Trump I would agree with. But there is a diffence.
I do not hate Trump. The left does!
Here's a comment I got from a discussion on the Internet. It's a criticism of the Left, not Trump.
The reason the Democrats are anxious to get Trump off the ballot (and in a penitentiary) is that they hate and fear him with disturbing intensity. After all, they were beaten by him once in 2016, and are afraid it will happen again in 2024.
In all my years of observing the American political struggle (Left versus Right) I’ve never seen so much ugly hatred of a political figure. Trump has somehow reached into the deepest part of leftist malignancy, and provoked it to blind, raging hostility.
And that’s projection, because leftists always presume to see hatred in their opponents.
AzWm Your lack of awareness is truly astonishing. |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Oct 1, 2023 15:30:26 GMT -8
No, I do not watch CNN. Fox, on the other hand, has real reporters in addition to opinion shows. In the latter category I count Sean Hannity or The Five (since they now seldom if ever have a Dem panelist). Please give me an example of a GOP talking point on Bret Baier's show.
I do, however, watch many shows on YouTube that are SUPER anti-Trump. One such is Glenn Kirshner. It's not that he provides misinformation. It's just that he is so obviously hates Trump and almost certainly hopes he will get 100 years in prison that prevents me from calling his show unbiased. I never get the feeling that he has any interest in presenting information that may be prejudicial to the Left. His whole show is based on hatred of Trump. On wonders what he would do for material if Trump were to drop dead tomorrow! (Actually, I know what he would do. Attack the "MAGA" Republicans.)
Let me comment on Donald Trump. Most (although not absolutely ever) bad thing the Left says about Trump I would agree with. But there is a diffence.
I do not hate Trump. The left does!
Here's a comment I got from a discussion on the Internet. It's a criticism of the Left, not Trump.
The reason the Democrats are anxious to get Trump off the ballot (and in a penitentiary) is that they hate and fear him with disturbing intensity. After all, they were beaten by him once in 2016, and are afraid it will happen again in 2024.
In all my years of observing the American political struggle (Left versus Right) I’ve never seen so much ugly hatred of a political figure. Trump has somehow reached into the deepest part of leftist malignancy, and provoked it to blind, raging hostility.
And that’s projection, because leftists always presume to see hatred in their opponents.
AzWm CNN is less biased, BY FAR, than Fox News. Indepentent studies have shown this. Even Fox's news division is deeply biased and has a Pro Republican agenda. When you compare coverage of Trump and Biden it becomes abundantly clear. There is almost no criticism of Trump on Fox, while CNN does have negative stories about Biden when the facts dictate such coverage. Trump is a reprehensible human being. A spoiled rich brat who thinks the world owes him everything he wants, and now that includes political power. He is a bigger liar than Bill Clinton, and that's saying a lot. He has said - out loud - that he shouldn't have to follow the Constitution if he doesn't like the parts of the Constitution involved or if it prevents him from doing what he wants. Several of his aides have said how they were barely able to talk him out of doing illegal, unconstitutional things while he was in office. And now he's saying he's not going to have anyone in his next administration that doesn't agree with him 100%. If you can't see how bad that could get I don't know what to tell you. But doesn't the fact that he idolizes Putin give you some concern? |
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