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Post by aztecryan on Sept 27, 2023 18:13:19 GMT -8
Never said it wasn't a big deal. I said you're not going to prevent it and isolated incidents will always occur, as crime is inevitable. You're ignoring the larger issue, as always, selectively and anecdotally trying to capitalize on something that is exceedingly rare. I don't care about your admirability in the slightest, just like your hollow values that contradict pretty much everything you say. I don't want this to become a referendum on racism, so I'm going to leave it at that and point you to the numerous fact-based studies that indicate we should be more focused on our own streets than we are about immigrants. Don't let a manufactured crisis get in the way of reality. Oh, ok. So, it's ok if you use rare occurrences, but not when I do. Perfect. Ok, Mr Passive Aggressive , you might as well go ahead and insinuate that I'm a racist. It wouldn't be your first time for myself, and others. It's just the typical you, using labels so loosely. I understand why you're afraid to talk about individual/isolated incidents since it doesn't fit your overall narrative. It's really obvious what you do. Have at it. I'm....not using rare occurrences to justify my point. I'm using the data in the studies that indicate what I'm telling you is the truth. If you were aware of those, the soapbox you're on about victims of crime at the hands of "illegals" would be quite a bit smaller. If I wanted to call you racist, I would. Generally speaking, this is a racially motivated topic, engineered by GOP fans and the party itself. Whether they are worried about job loss, crime, elections, or whatever else. They don't support ANY kind of immigration, legal or otherwise. You'd also know that if you weren't so busy pandering to metaphorical victims. You make excuses for virtually everyone except for the victims of a system that is propped up by generational stereotypes and is an unwinnable challenge for many. |
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Post by johneaztec on Sept 27, 2023 18:36:43 GMT -8
Oh, ok. So, it's ok if you use rare occurrences, but not when I do. Perfect. Ok, Mr Passive Aggressive , you might as well go ahead and insinuate that I'm a racist. It wouldn't be your first time for myself, and others. It's just the typical you, using labels so loosely. I understand why you're afraid to talk about individual/isolated incidents since it doesn't fit your overall narrative. It's really obvious what you do. Have at it. I'm....not using rare occurrences to justify my point. I'm using the data in the studies that indicate what I'm telling you is the truth. If you were aware of those, the soapbox you're on about victims of crime at the hands of "illegals" would be quite a bit smaller. If I wanted to call you racist, I would. Generally speaking, this is a racially motivated topic, engineered by GOP fans and the party itself. Whether they are worried about job loss, crime, elections, or whatever else. They don't support ANY kind of immigration, legal or otherwise. You'd also know that if you weren't so busy pandering to metaphorical victims. You make excuses for virtually everyone except for the victims of a system that is propped up by generational stereotypes and is an unwinnable challenge for many. Depends on what you consider rare, and no, you can't pick and choose. Remember, if someone has been killed by a drunk driver, that is considered manslaughter/murder. That happens as well. You're using school shootings as an example. Is that rare? I would say so. So there ya go. It's more common, unfortunately, than in the past, but so are legal citizens being killed by illegal immigrants. They give licenses to many that shouldn't have one. So, I'm not talking only about guns and knives. Also, what excuses have I made? |
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 27, 2023 18:59:58 GMT -8
I'm....not using rare occurrences to justify my point. I'm using the data in the studies that indicate what I'm telling you is the truth. If you were aware of those, the soapbox you're on about victims of crime at the hands of "illegals" would be quite a bit smaller. If I wanted to call you racist, I would. Generally speaking, this is a racially motivated topic, engineered by GOP fans and the party itself. Whether they are worried about job loss, crime, elections, or whatever else. They don't support ANY kind of immigration, legal or otherwise. You'd also know that if you weren't so busy pandering to metaphorical victims. You make excuses for virtually everyone except for the victims of a system that is propped up by generational stereotypes and is an unwinnable challenge for many. Depends on what you consider rare, and no, you can't pick and choose. Remember, if someone has been killed by a drunk driver, that is considered manslaughter/murder. That happens as well. You're using school shootings as an example. Is that rare? I would say so. So there ya go. It's more common, unfortunately, than in the past, but so are legal citizens being killed by illegal immigrants. They give licenses to many that shouldn't have one. So, I'm not talking only about guns and knives. Also, what excuses have I made? Look. At. The. Data. That's what I consider rare. In the fiscal year of 2023, there have been 24 homicides perpetrated by non-citizens. That's essentially two per month. For context, in 2021, Texas led the country in homicides at 2,164. Seems pretty obvious if you'd look into the numbers. US citizens commit more violent crime than non-citizens. Cut and dry. You're going to talk to me about school shootings? I mean....read the room. (And keep in mind that some of these involve....children.) This year alone, there have 53 shootings on school campuses. 53. So, no, it's not in way, shape or form rare. It's happened, on average, once every couple of days this year. In 2021 and 2022, record numbers of school shootings transpired, the highest in well over a decade. I'm not even going to respond to your last point - Homicides and manslaughter are grouped together, FYI. Man, the ignorance is just astounding. |
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Post by johneaztec on Sept 27, 2023 19:17:19 GMT -8
Depends on what you consider rare, and no, you can't pick and choose. Remember, if someone has been killed by a drunk driver, that is considered manslaughter/murder. That happens as well. You're using school shootings as an example. Is that rare? I would say so. So there ya go. It's more common, unfortunately, than in the past, but so are legal citizens being killed by illegal immigrants. They give licenses to many that shouldn't have one. So, I'm not talking only about guns and knives. Also, what excuses have I made? Look. At. The. Data. That's what I consider rare. In the fiscal year of 2023, there have been 24 homicides perpetrated by non-citizens. That's essentially two per month. For context, in 2021, Texas led the country in homicides at 2,164. Seems pretty obvious if you'd look into the numbers. US citizens commit more violent crime than non-citizens. Cut and dry. You're going to talk to me about school shootings? I mean....read the room. (And keep in mind that some of these involve....children.) This year alone, there have 53 shootings on school campuses. 53. So, no, it's not in way, shape or form rare. It's happened, on average, once every couple of days this year. In 2021 and 2022, record numbers of school shootings transpired, the highest in well over a decade. I'm not even going to respond to your last point - Homicides and manslaughter are grouped together, FYI. Man, the ignorance is just astounding. Talk about ignorance. I'm. Talking. About. School. Mass. Shootings. 53 mass shootings at schools? You're wrong about that. Mass shootings at schools are rare, and don't come close to the amount of people killed by an illegal immigrant, whether it's by gun, knife, car, or in any other manner. We're not even talking about rapes, etc.... |
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 27, 2023 19:29:39 GMT -8
Look. At. The. Data. That's what I consider rare. In the fiscal year of 2023, there have been 24 homicides perpetrated by non-citizens. That's essentially two per month. For context, in 2021, Texas led the country in homicides at 2,164. Seems pretty obvious if you'd look into the numbers. US citizens commit more violent crime than non-citizens. Cut and dry. You're going to talk to me about school shootings? I mean....read the room. (And keep in mind that some of these involve....children.) This year alone, there have 53 shootings on school campuses. 53. So, no, it's not in way, shape or form rare. It's happened, on average, once every couple of days this year. In 2021 and 2022, record numbers of school shootings transpired, the highest in well over a decade. I'm not even going to respond to your last point - Homicides and manslaughter are grouped together, FYI. Man, the ignorance is just astounding. Talk about ignorance. I'm. Talking. About. School. Mass. Shootings. 53 mass shootings at schools? You're wrong about that. Mass shootings at schools are rare, and don't come close to the amount of people killed by an illegal immigrant, whether it's by gun, knife, car, or in any other manner. We're not even talking about rapes, etc.... Just stop. You're moving the goalposts, shifting the focus, broadening the parameters, changing the details as you see fit because your narrative doesn't exist. You don't get to tell someone they are wrong if you don't have the first clue what you're talking about. How many mass shootings by undocumented immigrants have there been in the FY 2023? Zero. So if it's not a mass casualty event, it doesn't count? You need a filter, John. And some common sense. A little decency would serve well, too. It's hard to find words to convey how disgusting this line of thought is. Truly. |
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Post by johneaztec on Sept 27, 2023 19:46:26 GMT -8
Talk about ignorance. I'm. Talking. About. School. Mass. Shootings. 53 mass shootings at schools? You're wrong about that. Mass shootings at schools are rare, and don't come close to the amount of people killed by an illegal immigrant, whether it's by gun, knife, car, or in any other manner. We're not even talking about rapes, etc.... Just stop. You're moving the goalposts, shifting the focus, broadening the parameters, changing the details as you see fit because your narrative doesn't exist. You don't get to tell someone they are wrong if you don't have the first clue what you're talking about. How many mass shootings by undocumented immigrants have there been in the FY 2023? Zero. So if it's not a mass casualty event, it doesn't count? You need a filter, John. And some common sense. A little decency would serve well, too. It's hard to find words to convey how disgusting this line of thought is. Truly. Ha!!! Talking about moving goal posts. Now you want to ask about how many illegal immigrants have participated in school shootings? Ridiculous. You're not that good at acting dumb. Sheesh. You know what I meant. We're talking about rarity. Shootings at a school can be something such as a gang related shooting situation. Get real. Talk about some decency. You show a great lack of it towards people that have had loved killed by someone illegally here. That's what's disgusting. You need to take some time out and think about this one pardner. You're waaay off base. You can't reason with someone who has zero empathy and likes to play dumb. |
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Post by johneaztec on Sept 27, 2023 20:08:02 GMT -8
Point blank. Do you think there's any more added extra frustration, outrage, etc, if a crime, especially murder, is committed by an illegal immigrant?
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 27, 2023 20:22:14 GMT -8
Just stop. You're moving the goalposts, shifting the focus, broadening the parameters, changing the details as you see fit because your narrative doesn't exist. You don't get to tell someone they are wrong if you don't have the first clue what you're talking about. How many mass shootings by undocumented immigrants have there been in the FY 2023? Zero. So if it's not a mass casualty event, it doesn't count? You need a filter, John. And some common sense. A little decency would serve well, too. It's hard to find words to convey how disgusting this line of thought is. Truly. Ha!!! Talking about moving goal posts. Now you want to ask about how many illegal immigrants have participated in school shootings? Ridiculous. You're not that good at acting dumb. Sheesh. You know what I meant. We're talking about rarity. Shootings at a school can be something such as a gang related shooting situation. Get real. Talk about some decency. You show a great lack of it towards people that have had loved killed by someone illegally here. That's what's disgusting. You need to take some time out and think about this one pardner. You're waaay off base. You can't reason with someone who has zero empathy and likes to play dumb. This is how little you're paying attention. Nowhere did I mention mass shootings...at all, prior to your reference. I never even brought up school shootings and immigrants. I said how many mass shootings had been perpetrated by immigrants in 2023? You can't answer that, obviously. You're obviously fearful of immigrants. Why, I don't know. The statistics don't back up your paranoia. The only person that's playing dumb here (or just is?) is you. You're either intentionally misrepresenting information or you're just wrong, which I'm not sure which one is worse. Nowhere did I show a lack of empathy towards anyone. All violence is terrible and it does not matter the person's immigration status. However, you're lying out of your ass and that doesn't help matters, so here are the numbers. www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics/criminal-noncitizen-statisticsI assume you'll misrepresent that data, too, but so be it. |
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 27, 2023 20:23:33 GMT -8
Point blank. Do you think there's any more added extra frustration, outrage, etc, if a crime, especially murder, is committed by an illegal immigrant? Murder is murder. Considering you're more than twice as likely to be killed by someone from this country, the statistical reality is no. And if there was, then it's taking the focus off the act itself. |
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Post by johneaztec on Sept 27, 2023 20:47:42 GMT -8
Ha!!! Talking about moving goal posts. Now you want to ask about how many illegal immigrants have participated in school shootings? Ridiculous. You're not that good at acting dumb. Sheesh. You know what I meant. We're talking about rarity. Shootings at a school can be something such as a gang related shooting situation. Get real. Talk about some decency. You show a great lack of it towards people that have had loved killed by someone illegally here. That's what's disgusting. You need to take some time out and think about this one pardner. You're waaay off base. You can't reason with someone who has zero empathy and likes to play dumb. This is how little you're paying attention. Nowhere did I mention mass shootings...at all, prior to your reference. I never even brought up school shootings and immigrants. I said how many mass shootings had been perpetrated by immigrants in 2023? You can't answer that, obviously. You're obviously fearful of immigrants. Why, I don't know. The statistics don't back up your paranoia. The only person that's playing dumb here (or just is?) is you. You're either intentionally misrepresenting information or you're just wrong, which I'm not sure which one is worse. Nowhere did I show a lack of empathy towards anyone. All violence is terrible and it does not matter the person's immigration status. However, you're lying out of your ass and that doesn't help matters, so here are the numbers. www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics/criminal-noncitizen-statisticsI assume you'll misrepresent that data, too, but so be it. You didn't show a lack of empathy? Talk about someone who is acting dumb (or is simply dumb?) and lying out of their ass. You have basically said all along, "Meh, its going to happen, you can't stop it." 'It's here." Horrible. It's there for all to see. And then, again, the troll comes out of you. I'm obviously afraid of illegal immigrants? Nice try, bud. It's all about the words "illegal/illegally. You and your cherry picking are very tiring. You said illegal immigrants killing legal citizens are rare and I said it depends on what you perceived as rare. I said school shootings are rare, and you knew what I meant when I said school shootings. Obviously mass school shootings. You simply decided to lump in all school shootings to fit your narrative. Your tendency's are not difficult at all to figure out. You never can/will talk about individual cases by themselves, because it ruins your narrative. Case you point when I asked you the point blank question about it, you felt the need to bring in an overall stat about it. Ridiculous. So be it. |
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Post by johneaztec on Sept 27, 2023 20:51:15 GMT -8
Point blank. Do you think there's any more added extra frustration, outrage, etc, if a crime, especially murder, is committed by an illegal immigrant? Murder is murder. Considering you're more than twice as likely to be killed by someone from this country, the statistical reality is no. And if there was, then it's taking the focus off the act itself. This says it all. Your lack of empathy and understanding about this question that I proposed, speaks volumes. Your words speak for themselves. Brutal. |
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Post by johneaztec on Sept 27, 2023 21:13:09 GMT -8
Wow!!! You literally just glossed right over the tragedy that I was referring to and basically said, "Meh, s**t happens both domestically and foreign." "They're myopic and misguided views." Sheesh. No bud, they're real and it shouldn't happen, but yeah, I know you can't prevent it. That doesn't mean it's ok. When I was in Construction in my 30's and 40's, I constantly heard illegal immigrant workers say that they knew this person, or that person who committed a crime and were bold enough to do it, because they knew they could just go back across the border before being caught. Their bravado is heightened, because of that fact. They're bolder. That's what happened to one of my good friends siblings. He was killed by someone here illegally, and simply crossed back over the border, and was never found. It was horrible. People who are trying to cross the border and are killed while doing it, just to better their lives, is very tragic as well. It's a sensitive and complicated subject, but you should have more compassion for the ones killed here by illegals, as well. Not just the illegals that are killed at the border. You didn't refer to a specific tragedy. You used another generic example and tried to excuse it with "all crime is bad, but this is worse..." and it's not. You have children being shot on the streets. You have children being shot in schools. When you take a comprehensive look at numbers and stop spreading useless fearmongering propaganda, you realize that our own domestic issues are far more common, far more pressing and far more extreme. Now you're going to use another completely anecdotal story. It's the same thing every single time. I'm sorry that you were affected by violence. It's terrible. But it doesn't change the reality that the problem is the *system* by and large, not the isolated rogue actor. The coordinated attack is just another way to paint hatred towards immigrants and prop up old stereotypes. We need to evolve and place blame where it belongs. You never brought up school shootings? You can't even keep up with your own schtick. Sheesh. Your very own post for reference. |
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 28, 2023 8:11:50 GMT -8
You didn't refer to a specific tragedy. You used another generic example and tried to excuse it with "all crime is bad, but this is worse..." and it's not. You have children being shot on the streets. You have children being shot in schools. When you take a comprehensive look at numbers and stop spreading useless fearmongering propaganda, you realize that our own domestic issues are far more common, far more pressing and far more extreme. Now you're going to use another completely anecdotal story. It's the same thing every single time. I'm sorry that you were affected by violence. It's terrible. But it doesn't change the reality that the problem is the *system* by and large, not the isolated rogue actor. The coordinated attack is just another way to paint hatred towards immigrants and prop up old stereotypes. We need to evolve and place blame where it belongs. You never brought up school shootings? You can't even keep up with your own schtick. Sheesh. Your very own post for reference. I'm going to say this one time... I don't delineate between "mass" school shootings and "all" school shootings because the criteria for a mass shooting is generally referred to as "four or more casualties." Under this definition, Santana, March 5th, 2001, wouldn't qualify as a mass casualty event, because only two students died. I don't consider that different. I would hope a rational person wouldn't consider the deaths of any unarmed, innocent kids acceptable. The act of school shootings themselves are extremely common. Almost 500,000 kids have been exposed to violence on school campuses in the wake of Columbine High School's tragedy. Every single time I go to my own campus, even though it's changed dramatically in the last 22 years, I get the reminders myself. Now that you have the numbers, you're free to compare on your own what you think is more common. |
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 19, 2023 11:48:27 GMT -8
I mean....
LOL.
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Post by sdsuball on Oct 19, 2023 12:28:27 GMT -8
I'm in favor of a tighter border. That doesn't mean building a big wall though - that means more drug dogs/vehicle scanners at border crossings.
I'm all for reducing the amount of fentanyl crossing over into the US.
As far as immigrants/illegal's, give them more opportunity to get visas/citizenship. Plus, if they are here legally, they have less incentive to commit crime since they will want to stay here (they won't want to commit a crime and vanish across the border).
Focus on the real problem here, narcotics brought into the US by Mexican cartels, not people in Mexico who are poor and want to work in the US to support their family.
I'm also in favor of requiring gun registrations for any gun purchase. Mexico has extremely strict gun laws.
Despite this, the Mexican cartels get a stream of guns that are smuggled from the US into Mexico using ordinary US citizens that the cartel pays to purchase guns for them. The Mexican cartel's power resides in their ability to threaten violence if the Mexican government tries to raid Sinaloa and shut them down.
Get rid of the cartel's supply of guns and suddenly their power wanes in Mexico.
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Post by azteccc on Oct 19, 2023 13:35:44 GMT -8
I'm in favor of a tighter border. That doesn't mean building a big wall though - that means more drug dogs/vehicle scanners at border crossings. I'm all for reducing the amount of fentanyl crossing over into the US. As far as immigrants/illegal's, give them more opportunity to get visas/citizenship. Plus, if they are here legally, they have less incentive to commit crime since they will want to stay here (they won't want to commit a crime and vanish across the border). Focus on the real problem here, narcotics brought into the US by Mexican cartels, not people in Mexico who are poor and want to work in the US to support their family. I'm also in favor of requiring gun registrations for any gun purchase. Mexico has extremely strict gun laws. Despite this, the Mexican cartels get a stream of guns that are smuggled from the US into Mexico using ordinary US citizens that the cartel pays to purchase guns for them. The Mexican cartel's power resides in their ability to threaten violence if the Mexican government tries to raid Sinaloa and shut them down. Get rid of the cartel's supply of guns and suddenly their power wanes in Mexico. We could fix 95% of Mexico's problems and 80-85% of our border issues altogether in the medium/long-term if we ended draconian drug laws/prohibition, polices that are obviously not working anyway. |
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Post by sdsuball on Oct 19, 2023 16:16:59 GMT -8
I'm in favor of a tighter border. That doesn't mean building a big wall though - that means more drug dogs/vehicle scanners at border crossings. I'm all for reducing the amount of fentanyl crossing over into the US. As far as immigrants/illegal's, give them more opportunity to get visas/citizenship. Plus, if they are here legally, they have less incentive to commit crime since they will want to stay here (they won't want to commit a crime and vanish across the border). Focus on the real problem here, narcotics brought into the US by Mexican cartels, not people in Mexico who are poor and want to work in the US to support their family. I'm also in favor of requiring gun registrations for any gun purchase. Mexico has extremely strict gun laws. Despite this, the Mexican cartels get a stream of guns that are smuggled from the US into Mexico using ordinary US citizens that the cartel pays to purchase guns for them. The Mexican cartel's power resides in their ability to threaten violence if the Mexican government tries to raid Sinaloa and shut them down. Get rid of the cartel's supply of guns and suddenly their power wanes in Mexico. We could fix 95% of Mexico's problems and 80-85% of our border issues altogether in the medium/long-term if we ended draconian drug laws/prohibition, polices that are obviously not working anyway. Perhaps. Where do you draw that line? It's easy to legalize something like marijuana that doesn't have negative health effects. Legalizing opiates could be a good thing, if people are taking that instead of dying from fentanyl. But then you have to figure out how to legalize that in a manner that is still controlled - ie. I don't think that you want a lot of people trying opiates just because they are legal. Opiates have a lot of bad health effects. |
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Post by uwphoto on Oct 19, 2023 17:03:37 GMT -8
We could fix 95% of Mexico's problems and 80-85% of our border issues altogether in the medium/long-term if we ended draconian drug laws/prohibition, polices that are obviously not working anyway. Perhaps. Where do you draw that line? It's easy to legalize something like marijuana that doesn't have negative health effects. Legalizing opiates could be a good thing, if people are taking that instead of dying from fentanyl. But then you have to figure out how to legalize that in a manner that is still controlled - ie. I don't think that you want a lot of people trying opiates just because they are legal. Opiates have a lot of bad health effects. I am old enough to remember, mostly white middle to upper class, people at parties making fun of and looking down on "primative" cultures that would fragment ..due to drugs and alcohol. Inuit, native Americans, Brazilian endemic peoples etc. This was due to rapud changes in society and technology that thryy could not deal with. Haha...the Mexican cartels took advantage of a weak cultural / societal situation in America. bull$#!+!! the American medical infrastructure was handing out opiates like candy for many years!! They were making money handing over fist. Areas of America that were dependent on lumber, coal, farming etc. suffered changes they couldn't deal with. These communities were candy from a baby easy for the opiate buis. in the US. I sprained my ankle playing hoop in the early 90's. 30 days of vicodin was standard then. So, revenge of the "primative" cultures? Or, are we more alike than my parents generation ever wanted to admit? |
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Post by uwphoto on Oct 19, 2023 17:04:51 GMT -8
Perhaps. Where do you draw that line? It's easy to legalize something like marijuana that doesn't have negative health effects. Legalizing opiates could be a good thing, if people are taking that instead of dying from fentanyl. But then you have to figure out how to legalize that in a manner that is still controlled - ie. I don't think that you want a lot of people trying opiates just because they are legal. Opiates have a lot of bad health effects. I am old enough to remember, mostly white middle to upper class, people at parties making fun of and looking down on "primative" cultures that would fragment ..due to drugs and alcohol. Inuit, native Americans, Brazilian endemic peoples etc. This was due to rapid changes in society and technology that they could not deal with. Haha...the Mexican cartels took advantage of a weak cultural / societal situation in America. bull$#!+!! the American medical infrastructure was handing out opiates like candy for many years!! They were making money hand over fist. Areas of America that were dependent on lumber, coal, farming etc. suffered changes they couldn't deal with. These communities were candy from a baby easy for the opiate buis. in the US. I sprained my ankle playing hoop in the early 90's. 30 days of vicodin was standard then. So, revenge of the "primative" cultures? Or, are we more alike than my parents generation ever wanted to admit? |
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 19, 2023 18:44:07 GMT -8
These people can't even elect a speaker, let alone govern anything..lower the expectations.
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