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Post by AztecWilliam on May 19, 2010 9:21:08 GMT -8
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Post by ptsdthor on May 19, 2010 9:52:50 GMT -8
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the GI Bill of yesteryear (if not now) allow recipients to use their Gov provided benefits to procure educations from colleges closely aligned with religious institutions and/or enroll in a curriculum that includes formation for clergy/priesthood (Divinity School/Seminary)?
How different is that from allowing a parent to use a government provided voucher (a government benefit no different in origin than the GI Bill government benefit) to send their child where they think is best, including a private, religiously aligned school?
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on May 19, 2010 13:40:54 GMT -8
So you guys have no problem with a Muslum parent using your taxpayer dollars to send his kid to a madrasa here?
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Post by AztecWilliam on May 19, 2010 14:09:16 GMT -8
So you guys have no problem with a Muslum parent using your taxpayer dollars to send his kid to a madrasa here? I would have serious problems with madrasas, period. But that is not the same as denying parents the right to send their kids to one on the public dime. Are there guidelines set in the federal legislation regarding which schools (I'm speaking here more of colleges) may and may not receive help from the feds (Pell grants, etc.)? It may be contrary to federal law, for instance, to allow money to be spent on tuition at a school praising Adolf Hitler and advocating the gassing of Jews. Certainly, a madrasa would have to be accredited in order to be eligible for government help. One has to doubt whether such a school could be accredited if it were teaching obvious hatred toward non-Muslims, etc. But we are wandering off topic here. The point of this thread is that the 9Th Circuit Court apparently thinks that they are operating apart from the precedents set by the SCOTUS. I think this is evidence that those justices believe that it is okay to render verdicts based on what they personally believe to be right and good instead of working in the framework of a national judicial system in which the SCOTUS has the final say as to what is and is not constitutional. AzWm |
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Post by davdesid on May 19, 2010 15:30:15 GMT -8
Any 9th CCA decision involving Stephen Reinhart is ripe for reversal by SCOTUS. That's just a fact of history. Anyway, a comment and discussion about this on Eugene Volokh's site can be read here: tinyurl.com/36vot92 |
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Post by ptsdthor on May 19, 2010 22:07:53 GMT -8
So you guys have no problem with a Muslum parent using your taxpayer dollars to send his kid to a madrasa here? Like Ohio State, UCLA, U of Michigan, Texas and UW? Are those "madrasas" worse or better than others? If so, who says and by what standard? Schools offering courses in religion or even religious formation should not be barred money given to an individual by the Feds or State as an entitlement just because that school has a religious studies major or offer a divinity school. That would violate the Individual's freedom of association and freedom of religion. To lose all access to Federal funds via the individual or otherwise, I would concede that it could be shown that the school specifically espouses a dangerous or hateful moral code and thought to do so on a level that violates the sense of the majority (and not just Bill Maher and his buddy Chris Hitchens and few fellow malcontents). The arbiter being the SCOTUS as they represent the majority (define that - the individual that likes their free exercise of religion rights and does not like people spewing racism or insurrection) -- oh and the 9th Circus, they would be representing Bill Maher and his buddy Chris Hitchens in this case. And as far as the 9th Circus is concerned, elections have consequences and they are living examples of those consequences. |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on May 21, 2010 16:51:25 GMT -8
I assume this is opposed to the "Christian" schools that teach the world is only 6K years old? Oh wait, maybe it's the "Christian" schools that base their teachings upon this from Franklin Graham:
"We're not attacking Islam but Islam has attacked us. The God of Islam is not the same God. He's not the son of God of the Christian or Judeo-Christian faith. It's a different God, and I believe it [Islam] is a very evil and wicked religion."
Will, the reason I spend little time on here is that your small cabal of right wing idiots just spend their time kissing each others asses. There is no real debate on this forum and that's the reason most nobody bothers with it.
=Bob
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Post by AztecWilliam on May 21, 2010 20:47:26 GMT -8
 I assume this is opposed to the "Christian" schools that teach the world is only 6K years old? Oh wait, maybe it's the "Christian" schools that base their teachings upon this from Franklin Graham: "We're not attacking Islam but Islam has attacked us. The God of Islam is not the same God. He's not the son of God of the Christian or Judeo-Christian faith. It's a different God, and I believe it [Islam] is a very evil and wicked religion." Will, the reason I spend little time on here is that your small cabal of right wing idiots just spend their time kissing each others asses. There is no real debate on this forum and that's the reason most nobody bothers with it. =Bob small cabal of right wing idiots? Geez, Bob I don't have a cabal. I don't even have a fan club, much less a cabal. Everyone who posts here does so as a representation of his or her personal beliefs and opinions. I would be delighted to have posters representing a wider range of opinions, but there is no way I can snap my fingers and recruit them out of thin air. Frankly, it is a disappointment to me that some of the AztecTalkers who used to post on the off-topic forum of the old site are not rolling up their sleeves and pointing out to those who do post just how misguided they are. It's no secret that I am extremely disappointed with the Obama administration. It would be great if some Obama supporters would explain why their guy is better than I think he is. Surely there are plenty of AztecTalkers who think The One is doing a splendid job. I mean, there are such folks. . . aren't there? AzWm
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Post by aztecwin on May 22, 2010 5:06:28 GMT -8
I assume this is opposed to the "Christian" schools that teach the world is only 6K years old? Oh wait, maybe it's the "Christian" schools that base their teachings upon this from Franklin Graham: "We're not attacking Islam but Islam has attacked us. The God of Islam is not the same God. He's not the son of God of the Christian or Judeo-Christian faith. It's a different God, and I believe it [Islam] is a very evil and wicked religion." Will, the reason I spend little time on here is that your small cabal of right wing idiots just spend their time kissing each others asses. There is no real debate on this forum and that's the reason most nobody bothers with it. =Bob small cabal of right wing idiots? Geez, Bob I don't have a cabal. I don't even have a fan club, much less a cabal. Everyone who posts here does so as a representation of his or her personal beliefs and opinions. I would be delighted to have posters representing a wider range of opinions, but there is no way I can snap my fingers and recruit them out of thin air. Frankly, it is a disappointment to me that some of the AztecTalkers who used to post on the off-topic forum of the old site are not rolling up their sleeves and pointing out to those who do post just how misguided they are. It's no secret that I am extremely disappointed with the Obama administration. It would be great if some Obama supporters would explain why their guy is better than I think he is. Surely there are plenty of AztecTalkers who think The One is doing a splendid job. I mean, there are such folks. . . aren't there? AzWm You must accept that the world of Obama supporters is shrinking daily. It is hard to defend a pile of dog poo and they have stopped trying to a large extent. |
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Post by ptsdthor on May 24, 2010 7:49:50 GMT -8
I assume this is opposed to the "Christian" schools that teach the world is only 6K years old? Oh wait, maybe it's the "Christian" schools that base their teachings upon this from Franklin Graham: "We're not attacking Islam but Islam has attacked us. The God of Islam is not the same God. He's not the son of God of the Christian or Judeo-Christian faith. It's a different God, and I believe it [Islam] is a very evil and wicked religion." Will, the reason I spend little time on here is that your small cabal of right wing idiots just spend their time kissing each others asses. There is no real debate on this forum and that's the reason most nobody bothers with it. =Bob I don’t know how many times you are going to continue to come in here, bark once and run with your tail between your legs but whatever raises your skirt…. But since you ran, I guess we will have to try to understand your point without you. Apart from your personal problem with those of the Evangelical Christian persuasion, how would you contrast your personal religion from the one that motivated the fifteen to kill the innocent people on 9/11? If you had any intellectual honesty, it would likely be similar to the assessment you referenced. But, of course, intellectual honesty isn’t really the long suit of the left. You would likely default with the traditional leftist canard falsely claiming moral equivalencies between conservative Christians and the Taliban and avoid the question entirely. So much for intellectual honesty  Or, by referring to an opinion offered by a minister, are you saying that Islamic Studies, for example, or any religion oriented class for that matter, should be banned by all public funded institutions? Any clueless clown can make a case that almost anything could upset someone’s particular sensibilities. A feminist could object to the reading of Ephesians 5:22 in a Comparative Religions class. So what? Do you actually believe that the greater good would be served by your particular proposed brand of book burning? And how does your comment defend the 9th Circus? Why do you think they are right even when they are overturned so often? Is it because they, like you, they would rather deny everyone their right to the free exercise of Religion (while using their own money even) because someone, somewhere might take offense to an obscure part of a particular curriculum? What a brave new world you would have us live it! I can’t say I look forward to your next out of context and irrelevant response followed with some childish insult and then a quick exit so as to avoid defending the ludicrous …. but I’ll deal with it if and when it comes. |
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Post by davdesid on May 24, 2010 14:06:09 GMT -8
>>>I don’t know how many times you are going to continue to come in here, bark once and run with your tail between your legs....<<<ptsdthor Oh, he's just acting like the little Chihuahua he is. He'll be back with his drive-by posts, though. Just like a Chihuahua, he can't help himself. And... he's probably getting to be a bit frustrated with his little satrapy on the other board, because, over there, his master won't let him bark. Can't sling his epithets without being scolded. He'll be back.  |
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Post by AztecWilliam on May 24, 2010 19:20:09 GMT -8
Come on, let's be nice to Bob. He is a character, I admit, but so am I, so I guess I can't be too critical. To tell the truth, I would prefer a more nuanced (love that word) discussion.
As for Win's suggestion that Obama's fan club is shrinking, well, I think he may be onto something. Seriously, why aren't there more ordinary folks (as opposed to political hacks in the newspapers, online, or in public office) ready and willing to stand up for The One? I can't help but believe that this trend is because Obama has stumbled so badly almost from the beginning. He seemed so self-assured and poised in the campaign. Yet, when he hit real opposition, he seems to have found the going a bit unlike anything he has had to face before.
This reminds me (as do so may things! ;D) of an analogy from World War II. The Germans felt pretty good about themselves when the Luftwaffe was fighting the Dutch air force, or the Poles. It was quite another thing to face RAF Spitfires and Hurricanes. For Obama, the reality of being in office is like fighting the RAF.
Must be frustrating. . . and unexpected.
AzWm
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on May 25, 2010 7:28:54 GMT -8
William. I am beginning to see a real double standard on your board. You threatened to ban Bob if he didn't tone it down but you have no problem with the personal attacks against us 'liberals'. Do you actually want discussion from both sides or just another right-wing call-in show?
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Post by aztecwin on May 25, 2010 12:54:28 GMT -8
William. I am beginning to see a real double standard on your board. You threatened to ban Bob if he didn't tone it down but you have no problem with the personal attacks against us 'liberals'. Do you actually want discussion from both sides or just another right-wing call-in show? I have not seen where he did much more than mildly get on =Bob. I think that everyone wants more discussion of issues without personal attacks. (Sometimes it is hard to resist some low hanging fruit) What we do on here is mild compared to the over the top exchanges on Raging Bull and some other sites. I hope that you and Bob stay and invite others to provide a more lively exchange of ideas. |
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