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Post by aztecryan on Jan 8, 2021 14:15:18 GMT -8
When social media actively promotes one side while censoring the other, it is not a legit source. After the riots this past summer, the Dems DO NOT HAVE the moral high ground on this issue. What source would you like? You don't seem to understand how private companies can operate. You're very good at regurgitating propaganda though from right-wing networks. Does the president qualify as a source? Here's him asking for peace from his supporters (not Antifa, obviously) I don't give a rat's ass about the moral high ground. You're condoning terrorism by trying to blame the invisible boogeyman, ignoring reality that this was planned for weeks and promoted heavily by the president. You're also objectively ignoring the right-wing infiltrators of extremism that were present at BLM demonstrations. Why? Again, there is zero comparison between social justice/systemic racism against people of color and what happened in the capital. None. One is a legitimate cause, which has plagued this country (and no, I am not okay with property destruction, so save it) and the other is an utter farce perpetuated by a con artist who has duped millions of unintelligent people who do not have the capability of self-awareness and thought. If you want to see propaganda, go to Parler. There are hundreds of people on that site who are beyond hope. Forgive me for leaving this out, but here's an article discussing the man who tweeted out more than 2 weeks in advance that the events would unfold. www.gq.com/story/man-predicted-capitol-coup-interview/amp?__twitter_impression=trueLet's stop bringing a both sides argument as a means to compare looting with sedition. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jan 8, 2021 14:30:03 GMT -8
I wasn't referring to solely the Capitol building incident and I'm not diminishing it, just putting some perspective to it. By the way, those numbskulls weren't going to overthrow anything. They can certainly cause havoc which can result in death like it did and that's the horrific part, but they weren't going to accomplish any of their goals. Thankfully, we didn't have to find out. Perspective is needed in a comprehensive sense, not in a "the other side has bad people, too" - We know rogue extremists exist on both sides of the aisle. But there are levels to extremism and we crossed a massive one at the heart of our democracy. When you have federal lawmakers and government representatives actively participating in a coup attempt, that's a grave concern. Yes, I absolutely agree that are levels to extremism, and this one was at a very high level. Despicable. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 8, 2021 14:49:51 GMT -8
Thankfully, we didn't have to find out. Perspective is needed in a comprehensive sense, not in a "the other side has bad people, too" - We know rogue extremists exist on both sides of the aisle. But there are levels to extremism and we crossed a massive one at the heart of our democracy. When you have federal lawmakers and government representatives actively participating in a coup attempt, that's a grave concern. Yes, I absolutely agree that are levels to extremism, and this one was at a very high level. Despicable. The Attorney General for the state of Louisiana has been implicated. I cannot underscore enough that this isn't people out and about violating curfew or stealing televisions. This is a coordinated attack on Washington with actual government backing. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 8, 2021 15:25:42 GMT -8
Donald Trump has been suspended from Twitter, permanently.
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Post by uwphoto on Jan 8, 2021 17:27:57 GMT -8
Interesting that some of the insurrectionists had zip ties for Mike Pence. Trump stabbed that guy in the back. Not surprising from what we've seen from trump. The single most despicable human in our governments history. Sean Hannity had trumps back today...hes scarred shitless of the mob as well.
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Jan 8, 2021 19:16:12 GMT -8
Too bad Pence won't crawl out from under the F'n bus, grow a pair and kick Trumpolini to the curb!! JMO
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Jan 8, 2021 23:53:37 GMT -8
OK, let's look at the timeline...
Trump loses the election, won't accept it.
Trump tries to overturn the election in court. Fails. Miserably. (No real evidence, just a bunch of ridiculous hearsay and tin foil hat theories).
Trump fires or asks for resigniations from people at the Pentagon (as well as FBI, NSA, etc).
Trump moves loyalists from his administration in to those positions of authority in the military and Federal law enforcement.
Trump's Cybersecurity Chief says there was NO hacking, and NO electronic fraud in the election. Trump fires him 2 days later.
Trump's Attorney General says there was NO credible evidence of fraud in the election. Barr resigns a week later.
Trump tries to coerce state election officials to, "Find," just enough votes for him to miraculously turn out to be the winner. He fails at that. Miserably.
Trump and his people set up a big rally on the very day that ALL of Congress and ALL of the Senate are together with the VP, certifying Biden's win.
On social media, the rallying cry is to FIGHT and CIVIL WAR and TAKE BACK DC and KICK ASS, etc. Some people encourage the people to bring their guns to the rally. (Parler's a site for peaceful people to discuss issues rationally, apparently.)
Giuliani works up the people at the, "Rally," telling them it's, "Trial by combat!"
Trump works them up even more, telling them to, "Fight," and to, "Be strong!" Trump then tells them to march on the Capitol.
Woefully inadequate security is in place for a major event, and the, "Protestors," easily gain entry into the Capitol, some bearing weapons, others with zip-ties, etc.
Again, ALL of Congress and the Senate is there, as is the VP. The #1, #2, and #3 people in line of succession in one place, along with every Federal legislator.
The National Guard is kept away from the Capitol before the event, and Trump waits to send those NG troops in, even after desperate pleas for help at the Capitol. Reports have Trump showing excitement and being almost giddy over events unfolding on TV.
Vice President Pence has to call in the National Guard to restore order since Trump wouldn't do it.
Now, I don't know about you, but I'm connecting the dots there. As a registered Republican I am SICKENED by Trump's actions. I've never liked him, never respected him, and never trusted him. This is the worst event for the U.S. Federal Government in modern history. This is an armed insurrection. If not for the incompetence of Donald Trump it may have worked.
Do the math - with the Congress, Senate, and VP out of the way, who could lead the country? The man in charge of the military and Federal law enforcement would be the only one capable of doing so. Some of the people invading the Capitol were wearing full tactical gear, many of them with various law enforcement departments, and some former military.
This is no small thing. This ISN'T about Party, either. This is about the highest crimes possible against the United States, regardless of Party affiliation. Does anyone really believe that Trump isn't guilty of an attempted coup? (And just because it was incompetently staged doesn't make it any less of a coup attempt when you read the timeline and connect the dots.)
How, exactly, is he not in prison right now?
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Post by uwphoto on Jan 9, 2021 7:58:11 GMT -8
OK, let's look at the timeline... Trump loses the election, won't accept it. Trump tries to overturn the election in court. Fails. Miserably. (No real evidence, just a bunch of ridiculous hearsay and tin foil hat theories). Trump fires or asks for resigniations from people at the Pentagon (as well as FBI, NSA, etc). Trump moves loyalists from his administration in to those positions of authority in the military and Federal law enforcement. Trump's Cybersecurity Chief says there was NO hacking, and NO electronic fraud in the election. Trump fires him 2 days later. Trump's Attorney General says there was NO credible evidence of fraud in the election. Barr resigns a week later. Trump tries to coerce state election officials to, "Find," just enough votes for him to miraculously turn out to be the winner. He fails at that. Miserably. Trump and his people set up a big rally on the very day that ALL of Congress and ALL of the Senate are together with the VP, certifying Biden's win. On social media, the rallying cry is to FIGHT and CIVIL WAR and TAKE BACK DC and KICK ASS, etc. Some people encourage the people to bring their guns to the rally. (Parler's a site for peaceful people to discuss issues rationally, apparently.) Giuliani works up the people at the, "Rally," telling them it's, "Trial by combat!" Trump works them up even more, telling them to, "Fight," and to, "Be strong!" Trump then tells them to march on the Capitol. Woefully inadequate security is in place for a major event, and the, "Protestors," easily gain entry into the Capitol, some bearing weapons, others with zip-ties, etc. Again, ALL of Congress and the Senate is there, as is the VP. The #1, #2, and #3 people in line of succession in one place, along with every Federal legislator. The National Guard is kept away from the Capitol before the event, and Trump waits to send those NG troops in, even after desperate pleas for help at the Capitol. Reports have Trump showing excitement and being almost giddy over events unfolding on TV. Vice President Pence has to call in the National Guard to restore order since Trump wouldn't do it. Now, I don't know about you, but I'm connecting the dots there. As a registered Republican I am SICKENED by Trump's actions. I've never liked him, never respected him, and never trusted him. This is the worst event for the U.S. Federal Government in modern history. This is an armed insurrection. If not for the incompetence of Donald Trump it may have worked. Do the math - with the Congress, Senate, and VP out of the way, who could lead the country? The man in charge of the military and Federal law enforcement would be the only one capable of doing so. Some of the people invading the Capitol were wearing full tactical gear, many of them with various law enforcement departments, and some former military. This is no small thing. This ISN'T about Party, either. This is about the highest crimes possible against the United States, regardless of Party affiliation. Does anyone really believe that Trump isn't guilty of an attempted coup? (And just because it was incompetently staged doesn't make it any less of a coup attempt when you read the timeline and connect the dots.) How, exactly, is he not in prison right now? Well put Panther. And your last question is the one I am asking. All your points and timeliness are just too logical. trump has created a cult...and what the heck can we do about that? I mean QAnon et al. There were people going into the Capitol Building with zip ties for Pence and others. Online whack job chatter was that Mike Pence is a pedophile. If logic doesn't work anymore and you are dealing with cray cray.... I dont know if there is anything we can do. I fear for the next couple weeks. |
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Post by Al-O-Meter on Jan 9, 2021 8:04:00 GMT -8
Does anyone really believe that Trump isn't guilty of an attempted coup? (And just because it was incompetently staged doesn't make it any less of a coup attempt when you read the timeline and connect the dots.) Yes. Smart people who know what a coup is believe it wasn't a coup. The very left-leaning NY Times spoke with PhD Political Scientists about what a coup is and if these events could be considered a coup. How, exactly, is he not in prison right now? 1) Most of what you list, such as filing lawsuits and firing staffers, isn't a crime. 2) There is immunity built in to the office of President 3) Even ordinary people who do commit actual crimes have a right to due process and Trump hasn't been convicted of anything. |
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Post by uwphoto on Jan 9, 2021 8:19:23 GMT -8
Does anyone really believe that Trump isn't guilty of an attempted coup? (And just because it was incompetently staged doesn't make it any less of a coup attempt when you read the timeline and connect the dots.) Yes. Smart people who know what a coup is believe it wasn't a coup. The very left-leaning NY Times spoke with PhD Political Scientists about what a coup is and if these events could be considered a coup. How, exactly, is he not in prison right now? 1) Most of what you list, such as filing lawsuits and firing staffers, isn't a crime. 2) There is immunity built in to the office of President 3) Even ordinary people who do commit actual crimes have a right to due process and Trump hasn't been convicted of anything. haha, historically trump would have been sent out on a rail! The only thing that saves him (over and over) is an illogical cult following (capable of violence) that keeps law makers and his right wing media enablers fearful... oh and they make a ton of money off of them. So Alometer, the insurrection wasn't quite up to shooting someone on 5th Avenue? What would be the line in the sand for you?..just asking. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 9, 2021 9:29:15 GMT -8
OK, let's look at the timeline... Trump loses the election, won't accept it. Trump tries to overturn the election in court. Fails. Miserably. (No real evidence, just a bunch of ridiculous hearsay and tin foil hat theories). Trump fires or asks for resigniations from people at the Pentagon (as well as FBI, NSA, etc). Trump moves loyalists from his administration in to those positions of authority in the military and Federal law enforcement. Trump's Cybersecurity Chief says there was NO hacking, and NO electronic fraud in the election. Trump fires him 2 days later. Trump's Attorney General says there was NO credible evidence of fraud in the election. Barr resigns a week later. Trump tries to coerce state election officials to, "Find," just enough votes for him to miraculously turn out to be the winner. He fails at that. Miserably. Trump and his people set up a big rally on the very day that ALL of Congress and ALL of the Senate are together with the VP, certifying Biden's win. On social media, the rallying cry is to FIGHT and CIVIL WAR and TAKE BACK DC and KICK ASS, etc. Some people encourage the people to bring their guns to the rally. (Parler's a site for peaceful people to discuss issues rationally, apparently.) Giuliani works up the people at the, "Rally," telling them it's, "Trial by combat!" Trump works them up even more, telling them to, "Fight," and to, "Be strong!" Trump then tells them to march on the Capitol. Woefully inadequate security is in place for a major event, and the, "Protestors," easily gain entry into the Capitol, some bearing weapons, others with zip-ties, etc. Again, ALL of Congress and the Senate is there, as is the VP. The #1, #2, and #3 people in line of succession in one place, along with every Federal legislator. The National Guard is kept away from the Capitol before the event, and Trump waits to send those NG troops in, even after desperate pleas for help at the Capitol. Reports have Trump showing excitement and being almost giddy over events unfolding on TV. Vice President Pence has to call in the National Guard to restore order since Trump wouldn't do it. Now, I don't know about you, but I'm connecting the dots there. As a registered Republican I am SICKENED by Trump's actions. I've never liked him, never respected him, and never trusted him. This is the worst event for the U.S. Federal Government in modern history. This is an armed insurrection. If not for the incompetence of Donald Trump it may have worked. Do the math - with the Congress, Senate, and VP out of the way, who could lead the country? The man in charge of the military and Federal law enforcement would be the only one capable of doing so. Some of the people invading the Capitol were wearing full tactical gear, many of them with various law enforcement departments, and some former military. This is no small thing. This ISN'T about Party, either. This is about the highest crimes possible against the United States, regardless of Party affiliation. Does anyone really believe that Trump isn't guilty of an attempted coup? (And just because it was incompetently staged doesn't make it any less of a coup attempt when you read the timeline and connect the dots.) How, exactly, is he not in prison right now? First of all - Excellent characterization. To a tee. Secondly - He's not in jail because the GOP (Graham, Scalise, McCarthy, Blunt, Hawley, Cruz and others) are now using unity as an excuse. They didn't care about unity when they rammed Amy Coney Barrett down the throats of the Democrats. They are using the fear of another event (Spoiler alert : They will be back) and the backlash of a second impeachment as grounds to do nothing. All of them should be expelled from Congress. This was sedition, treason and armed insurrection for the express purpose of installing Trump for a second term AT HIS BEHEST. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 9, 2021 9:41:30 GMT -8
Does anyone really believe that Trump isn't guilty of an attempted coup? (And just because it was incompetently staged doesn't make it any less of a coup attempt when you read the timeline and connect the dots.) Yes. Smart people who know what a coup is believe it wasn't a coup. The very left-leaning NY Times spoke with PhD Political Scientists about what a coup is and if these events could be considered a coup. How, exactly, is he not in prison right now? 1) Most of what you list, such as filing lawsuits and firing staffers, isn't a crime. 2) There is immunity built in to the office of President 3) Even ordinary people who do commit actual crimes have a right to due process and Trump hasn't been convicted of anything. But attempting to bribe/extort/intimidate a political official is most definitely a crime (and an obvious one for impeachment, as well) - The only immunity is the standing policy to not indict a sitting president, which I sincerely expect will get looked at in the future for this exact behavior. |
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Post by uwphoto on Jan 9, 2021 9:49:21 GMT -8
You guys wait till he pardons all who broke into the Capitol Building. You know thats coming!
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Post by johneaztec on Jan 9, 2021 10:48:40 GMT -8
The wacko people like the ones who broke into the Capitol building really feel like America is going to go into the sh#tter once Biden gets in.
They can't let it play out, and see how his administration performs before they go nuts. Too many unstable people out there.
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Post by Al-O-Meter on Jan 9, 2021 11:02:57 GMT -8
historically trump would have been sent out on a rail! You think so? Please give me your historical examples of Presidents being sent out on a rail mid-term absent any trial. So Alometer, the insurrection wasn't quite up to shooting someone on 5th Avenue? What would be the line in the sand for you?..just asking. Line for what? I've never supported everything he did. In no uncertain terms I condemn his role in setting off the Capitol riot. However I still stand behind my vote for him in 2020. He was the correct choice. We are entering a very dangerous time because he lost. In the immediate aftermath of the election Joe Biden said the right things. He said that he wanted to represent those who didn't vote for him as much as those who did. It was an adult and unifying thought. It gave me hope we'd be looking at a repeat of the Gerald Ford Presidency where we calmed down and put the past behind us. I now know that was wishful thinking and Biden was reading a speechwriter's words that weren't genuine. In addressing the Capitol Riot, Biden pointedly veered into insisting BLM rioters would have been treated differently than the pro-Trump rioters were. Ignore for a moment that law enforcement killed pro-Trump rioters but no BLM rioters this past summer. What is the point at this moment in time of saying that? That isn't a unifying statement. Biden is essentially saying he is unhappy that law enforcement didn't kill more American citizens and that they failed to do so proves the racism of law enforcement. There is no other way to interpret that statement. Far from trying to bring down the temperature, Biden used the events to pour gasoline on the fire. Meanwhile social media companies have started to openly clamp down on any pro-Trump sentiment. People are being silenced in the modern town square, so they quickly migrated to Parler where they could vent without fear of banishment. Google then removed that platform from their App Store so new people couldn't download it. It is a blatant violation of anti-trust laws however all the committees who would look into such issues are now headed by Democrats and so no anti-trust actions will be taken. Apple is expected to also remove Parler and there is a possibility Amazon will boot Parler off their servers to make it so there is no place the pro-Trump crowd is allowed to have a voice. There is a massive group of very discontented people who are swiftly seeing all outlets removed from them. Martin Luther King Jr. once called riots the language of the unheard. The new President, the Senate, the House, and all the big players in Silicon Valley all seem to be working as hard as they can to make the pro-Trump crowd into the unheard. You'd have to be blind not to see the danger in that. Unless some olive branches start coming out, things are going to get a lot uglier than anything we've seen so far. |
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Post by uwphoto on Jan 9, 2021 11:06:17 GMT -8
The wacko people like the ones who broke into the Capitol building really feel like America is going to go into the sh#tter once Biden gets in. They can't let it play out, and see how his administration performs before they go nuts. Too many unstable people out there. They've always been there John. But through social media they are easy to manipulate. Here's a horrid thought. Those people are mostly yahoo's and non-professionals. Imagine a real terrorist taking selfies of themselves while doing the same thing? Imagine what our real enemies saw on Wednesday? China, Russia, Iran etc. They must be laughing, that was too eazy. Thanks to trump , we are a mess right now. He quit working 2 months ago. |
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Post by Al-O-Meter on Jan 9, 2021 11:08:15 GMT -8
attempting to intimidate a political official is most definitely a crime No it isn't. If being intimidating toward a political official were a crime it would be a shorter list of politicians who hadn't gone to jail than ones who had gone to jail. Bribery and extortion are out of bounds, but intimidation is how the sport is played. |
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Post by uwphoto on Jan 9, 2021 11:10:03 GMT -8
historically trump would have been sent out on a rail! You think so? Please give me your historical examples of Presidents being sent out on a rail mid-term absent any trial. So Alometer, the insurrection wasn't quite up to shooting someone on 5th Avenue? What would be the line in the sand for you?..just asking. Line for what? I've never supported everything he did. In no uncertain terms I condemn his role in setting off the Capitol riot. However I still stand behind my vote for him in 2020. He was the correct choice. We are entering a very dangerous time because he lost. In the immediate aftermath of the election Joe Biden said the right things. He said that he wanted to represent those who didn't vote for him as much as those who did. It was an adult and unifying thought. It gave me hope we'd be looking at a repeat of the Gerald Ford Presidency where we calmed down and put the past behind us. I now know that was wishful thinking and Biden was reading a speechwriter's words that weren't genuine. In addressing the Capitol Riot, Biden pointedly veered into insisting BLM rioters would have been treated differently than the pro-Trump rioters were. Ignore for a moment that law enforcement killed pro-Trump rioters but no BLM rioters this past summer. What is the point at this moment in time of saying that? That isn't a unifying statement. Biden is essentially saying he is unhappy that law enforcement didn't kill more American citizens and that they failed to do so proves the racism of law enforcement. There is no other way to interpret that statement. Far from trying to bring down the temperature, Biden used the events to pour gasoline on the fire. Meanwhile social media companies have started to openly clamp down on any pro-Trump sentiment. People are being silenced in the modern town square, so they quickly migrated to Parler where they could vent without fear of banishment. Google then removed that platform from their App Store so new people couldn't download it. It is a blatant violation of anti-trust laws however all the committees who would look into such issues are now headed by Democrats and so no anti-trust actions will be taken. Apple is expected to also remove Parler and there is a possibility Amazon will boot Parler off their servers to make it so there is no place the pro-Trump crowd is allowed to have a voice. There is a massive group of very discontented people who are swiftly seeing all outlets removed from them. Martin Luther King Jr. once called riots the language of the unheard. The new President, the Senate, the House, and all the big players in Silicon Valley all seem to be working as hard as they can to make the pro-Trump crowd into the unheard. You'd have to be blind not to see the danger in that. Unless some olive branches start coming out, things are going to get a lot uglier than anything we've seen so far. what don't you get about that the guy has gone off the rails and is trying to burn it down on his way out? He's fuggin dangerous dude. So many have predicted this. You know if he f****s us, your life savings will be worth about the same as mine....5 cents. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 9, 2021 11:13:42 GMT -8
The wacko people like the ones who broke into the Capitol building really feel like America is going to go into the sh#tter once Biden gets in. They can't let it play out, and see how his administration performs before they go nuts. Too many unstable people out there. It has nothing to do with Biden. It could be literally anyone else, the expectations would be the same. It's all about galvanizing the Trump base. Clarence Thomas' wife is now implicated. That's a sitting SCOTUS justice. Multiple government officials from different states openly involved. These people don't care about who the opposing candidate is, it's not about reason and logic. It's extremism on the behalf of Donald Trump. There's a thread on Parler going now that is openly talking about murdering journalists. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 9, 2021 11:15:13 GMT -8
attempting to intimidate a political official is most definitely a crime No it isn't. If being intimidating toward a political official were a crime it would be a shorter list of politicians who hadn't gone to jail than ones who had gone to jail. Bribery and extortion are out of bounds, but intimidation is how the sport is played. How disingenuous. You can add obstruction now with the reports coming out about the second call. |
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