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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 5, 2009 15:27:24 GMT -8
This thread is going to be pretty bare-knuckles, so I hope I offend no one. But this must be said. The question is, "What is Obama's strategy for dealing with the health care insurance industry?" Answer; The Final Solution. Obama himself, as well as other Democratic notables such as Barney Frank, have come right out and said that they favor a system in which the government is the only source of payment for health care. In such a system, does anyone seriously believe that individual citizens will lose much if not all their freedom to make decisions regarding their own health care? For a more detailed, and I think definitive, explanation of what the Democrats are up to, please read this piece. . . www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/05/obamas_war_on_health_insurance_97767.htmlAzWm |
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Aug 5, 2009 16:08:29 GMT -8
It wouldn't bother me a bit if all of the health care insurance companies went out of business. If you believe they have anything approaching your best interest in mind you are seriously smoking your socks.
My mother-in-law is unfortunate enough to have Secure Horizons (Pacificare) which replaces Medicare. She has a tumor on her spine and has waited for over two weeks to get a 'referral' to a specialist. If she had traditional Medicare she would have already been seen and treated. Medicare is vastly superior to ANY HMO plan.
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Post by aztecwin on Aug 5, 2009 16:09:08 GMT -8
This could get really ugly if the lefties can figure out what is being said or maybe some will see the light.
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Aug 5, 2009 16:34:23 GMT -8
It wouldn't bother me a bit if all of the health care insurance companies went out of business. If you believe they have anything approaching your best interest in mind you are seriously smoking your socks. My mother-in-law is unfortunate enough to have Secure Horizons (Pacificare) which replaces Medicare. She has a tumor on her spine and has waited for over two weeks to get a 'referral' to a specialist. If she had traditional Medicare she would have already been seen and treated. Medicare is vastly superior to ANY HMO plan. Secure Horizons does not replace Medicare, it supplements Medicare, which only pays 80 percent of the bill. =Bob |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Aug 5, 2009 16:36:40 GMT -8
This could get really ugly if the lefties can figure out what is being said or maybe some will see the light. The entire commentary is crap. The Administration isn't vilifying the industry (which in itself is an amazing term - an "industry" deciding what our health options are) in order to kill it. It's responding to attacks by an industry that spent 133 million bucks in the 2nd quarter of this year to fight against any health care reform. =Bob |
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Aug 6, 2009 13:53:43 GMT -8
It wouldn't bother me a bit if all of the health care insurance companies went out of business. If you believe they have anything approaching your best interest in mind you are seriously smoking your socks. My mother-in-law is unfortunate enough to have Secure Horizons (Pacificare) which replaces Medicare. She has a tumor on her spine and has waited for over two weeks to get a 'referral' to a specialist. If she had traditional Medicare she would have already been seen and treated. Medicare is vastly superior to ANY HMO plan. Secure Horizons does not replace Medicare, it supplements Medicare, which only pays 80 percent of the bill. =Bob All I know is that she deals only with Pacificare and does not see any Medicare paperwork. |
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cx4
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Post by cx4 on Aug 6, 2009 15:45:03 GMT -8
My wife just went on Medicare and selected Kaiser Senior Advantage. Kaiser will take care of all the paperwork for you, so you will not need to contact anyone or fill out the medical paperwork.
I assume other supplement providers will do the same.
I believe that our health care system is a complete failure and needs a complete overhaul from the bottom up. The present system is making someone a ton of money, hence all the big money thrown at lobbyists. That said, I do not trust anything that the government oversees!. Can anybody point out a government run service that is both cost effective and service efficient?? I see a huge nightmare arising out of this health care legislation for myself and my children. Hell, right now I wait in the lobby for medical attention for an hour and I "pay" a monthly fee for this health care service. Can you imagine what it's going to be like when the government gets involved? Social security started out with all the best intentions and look what it has evolved into...our government (politicians) started to convolute it almost immediately. Now, social security may not survive much longer.
My idea that I am sending to the local politicians is to take this issue out of the political arena and give it to a private think tank who can study the problem in depth without lobbyists bending over their shoulders. I could go on and on since politicians from both parties and the health care issue perplex me to no end.
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Aug 6, 2009 19:23:02 GMT -8
Secure Horizons does not replace Medicare, it supplements Medicare, which only pays 80 percent of the bill. =Bob All I know is that she deals only with Pacificare and does not see any Medicare paperwork. Nobody sees any Medicare paperwork. It's a myth from the right that Medicare people have to deal with paperwork. The doctors deal with the paperwork and employ people to deal with it. Just another reason why health care is so expensive in this country. =Bob |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Aug 6, 2009 19:31:42 GMT -8
My wife just went on Medicare and selected Kaiser Senior Advantage. Kaiser will take care of all the paperwork for you, so you will not need to contact anyone or fill out the medical paperwork. I assume other supplement providers will do the same. I believe that our health care system is a complete failure and needs a complete overhaul from the bottom up. The present system is making someone a ton of money, hence all the big money thrown at lobbyists. I will disagree on the point that our health care system is a "complete failure" simply because I've been on Kaiser since around 1975 and I've never had a problem with it. The problem is the "industry" - the for profit health care plans that tell you to take a long walk off a short pier when you actually need them. As one gets older, they don't like you and they won't cover you - they leave it up to Medicare. If those assholes were completely in charge of health care, they'd cover kids and the rest of us would be left on our own. The sad fact is this - most of the people on here who are attacking the proposed health plans are old and either have coverage under Medicare or coverage from their time in the military. And the Republicans just continue to raise fear among them in order to deal Obama a blow that they think he cannot recover from. I swear to God - it's incredible to me that the idiots on the right on here would argue the virtues of the insurance companies, but I suppose that when they get their talking points for right-wing websites, it's all they have to offer. They just can't quite figure out that the insurance companies don't give a rat's ass about them and assume that an insurance company bureaucrat cares more about them than a Fed bureaucrat. Totally pathetic. =Bob |
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cx4
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Post by cx4 on Aug 7, 2009 6:46:48 GMT -8
try this simple equation: Fed bureaucrat = Insurance bureaucrat=0
The system is broken, something as important as healthcare needs to be taken out of the hands of the politicians and given to independent thinkers. FWIW, I am an "independent" in the political sense, any other stance is not logical to my engineering mind.
BTW, I am a longtime Kaiser customer also. They nearly killed my wife through neglect 3 months ago. I spent nearly a month beside a hospital bed... That said, we are still with them, but a lot wiser now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 8:15:06 GMT -8
It wouldn't bother me a bit if all of the health care insurance companies went out of business. If you believe they have anything approaching your best interest in mind you are seriously smoking your socks. My mother-in-law is unfortunate enough to have Secure Horizons (Pacificare) which replaces Medicare. She has a tumor on her spine and has waited for over two weeks to get a 'referral' to a specialist. If she had traditional Medicare she would have already been seen and treated. Medicare is vastly superior to ANY HMO plan. So you think the gubmint has your best interest in mind? If you think THAT, your smoking something a lot stronger than your socks! Look, NO business has your best interest in mind. Does your car dealership have your best interest in mind when they sell you a car? Does your grocer have your best interest in mind when he sells you food? NO! Wake up and grow up. Health insurance companies provide a service. They do it to make a profit and they do it pretty damn well for the most part. Look at the polls. Something approaching 80% of their customers are happy or very happy with their health plan. That equates to about 175 MILLION customers. Here's an idea! If you think health insurance sucks, Don't get it! Pay for your care out of your own pocket. What? Too expensive you say? Well, it isn't, for the most part. A standard doctor visit for a minor, treatable condition cost FAR less than your monthly grocery bill and most likely far less than your car payment. It's all about priories; not the county's, not mine but YOUR priorities. |
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Aug 7, 2009 9:00:04 GMT -8
All I know is that she deals only with Pacificare and does not see any Medicare paperwork. Nobody sees any Medicare paperwork. It's a myth from the right that Medicare people have to deal with paperwork. The doctors deal with the paperwork and employ people to deal with it. Just another reason why health care is so expensive in this country. =Bob All I can do is say what I've seen. My parents had traditional Medicare with a Blue Cross supplement. They for each procedure they had performed they received statements from both Medicare and Blue Cross showing what was billed and how much they paid. I have a box of this stuff at home. My in-laws deal with Pacificare HMO and don't receive any of that paperwork. They do, however, have to deal with the HMO red tape. |
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Aug 7, 2009 9:08:44 GMT -8
I swear to God - it's incredible to me that the idiots on the right on here would argue the virtues of the insurance companies, but I suppose that when they get their talking points for right-wing websites, it's all they have to offer. They just can't quite figure out that the insurance companies don't give a rat's ass about them and assume that an insurance company bureaucrat cares more about them than a Fed bureaucrat. Totally pathetic. =Bob Yes, completely amazing. These guys are complete tools. Tools of the insurance industry. Who do you think is funding the attack on the President's plan? The insurance industry. Who is funding the organized and coordinated attack on the members of congress? The insurance industry. The really sad thing is that those on the right are either blinded by their hate of Obama or are too stupid to notice. Or both. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 9:35:17 GMT -8
I swear to God - it's incredible to me that the idiots on the right on here would argue the virtues of the insurance companies, but I suppose that when they get their talking points for right-wing websites, it's all they have to offer. They just can't quite figure out that the insurance companies don't give a rat's ass about them and assume that an insurance company bureaucrat cares more about them than a Fed bureaucrat. Totally pathetic. =Bob Yes, completely amazing. These guys are complete tools. Tools of the insurance industry. Who do you think is funding the attack on the President's plan? The insurance industry. Who is funding the organized and coordinated attack on the members of congress? The insurance industry. The really sad thing is that those on the right are either blinded by their hate of Obama or are too stupid to notice. Or both. I don't give a CRAP if the insurance companies care about me. I voluntarily enter into an agreement with them. If they fail to live up to that agreement I have a remedy, I can sue them. When Benito Obama and his merry band of thugs are running the system and the system fails me, what's my remedy? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2009 9:44:03 GMT -8
I swear to God - it's incredible to me that the idiots on the right on here would argue the virtues of the insurance companies, but I suppose that when they get their talking points for right-wing websites, it's all they have to offer. They just can't quite figure out that the insurance companies don't give a rat's ass about them and assume that an insurance company bureaucrat cares more about them than a Fed bureaucrat. Totally pathetic. =Bob Yes, completely amazing. These guys are complete tools. Tools of the insurance industry. Who do you think is funding the attack on the President's plan? The insurance industry. Who is funding the organized and coordinated attack on the members of congress? The insurance industry. The really sad thing is that those on the right are either blinded by their hate of Obama or are too stupid to notice. Or both. Better a tool of the insurance industry than a helpless, hapless loser looking to mommy gubmint to solve all of my problems, wipe my ass and tell me that none of it my fault. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 7, 2009 10:13:23 GMT -8
Boy, there is really a lot of crap flying around the room on this issues. Here are some of my observations. . .
1. Health care is not a "right." Food (which is actually much more critical over all than health care) is not a "right." Clothing, which is not as important as food but is vital, is not a "right." Shelter (which probably should be listed a close third behind clothing) is not a "right." Only those people who believe that society should be organized and run by a small minority of enlightened people with unique insight into the human condition . . . i.e., the collectivists . . . go around declaring this and that to be a right.
Our rights, at least in the U.S.A., are outlined in the Constitution. Not matter how important or desirable a certain good or service may be, it is not by virtue of its goodness or desirability automatically a "right" to be guaranteed by the society as a whole (i.e., the government, which uses its police power to confiscate and redistribute the wealth created by individuals and free associations of individuals).
2. As I understand it, a majority of the health care providers in this country (other than the govt. programs) are non-profits. Kaiser is. Most hospitals are. Why should the fed govt. devise a plan that treats those entities with the same degree of hostility as it does the for-profit providers?
3. Why should the American people NOT be worried about a health care takeover that is being crafted behind closed doors (i.e., the minority party has had ZERO chance to be involved in the negotiations) with certain for-profit actors cutting individual deals? And what is the hurry? At present the state of the economy is much more important than completely redesigning the health care field in this country.
4. There is no way insurance companies, or other such notorious groups, could generate the level of concern and discontent we are seeing in the town meetings. These are real people who have genuine concerns. Why must the party in power ridicule those who disagree with them, especially so soon after they themselves were declaring that dissent was the highest form of patriotism?
5. Why must the President of the U.S. continue to set up straw men (e.g., everybody who opposes the Dem. plan wants the status quo) rather than deal with the serious concerns of those who believe we are going too fast into uncharted waters. Oh, that's right, those waters are really not uncharted, are they? We have the examples of numerous other countries' socialized medicine schemes with their long waits and rationing, don't we? And every time an opponent of the govt. plan brings up such examples, he or she is ridiculed.
6. If this country's health system is so bad, why do the royal families of at least three different Persian Gulf monarchies fly their family members to clinics in the U.S. rather than France, Germany, or the U.K. (One such clinic, It think it's the Mayo, has its own 11,000 foot runway nearby to accommodate the private jets of one of the royal families.)
7. Why does the President keep saying that people will be able to keep their private insurance if his plan (really the plan of the Dems. in Congress) becomes law? He knows that, ultimately, everyone (except perhaps Presidents and Congresspeople) will be forced into some form of government scheme. There will be no going back, no matter how much citizens, especially older ones, scream when the consequences of socialized medicine become clear.
8. Why will the President not support reasonable ideas put forth by the GOP and others, such as serious tort reform (or perhaps you think that malpractice insurance of $200,000 a year is simply a result of company greed?) or the end to state by state insurance coverage? He said early on that he wanted to take the best ideas no matter whose ideas they were. Hmmm. I guess he forgot about that one.
There are many things that can be done to improve both health care and health care insurance in this country. But those things should be done as a result of serious bipartisan efforts in Congress. Right now that appears unlikely.
AzWm
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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 7, 2009 14:20:47 GMT -8
Let me repeat my point 3 from above. 3. Why should the American people NOT be worried about a health care takeover that is being crafted behind closed doors (i.e., the minority party has had ZERO chance to be involved in the negotiations) with certain for-profit actors cutting individual deals? And what is the hurry? At present the state of the economy is much more important than completely redesigning the health care field in this country.Okay, got that part about the "individual deals?" Well, here is more on that. . . www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/07/obama_cuts_deal_with_drug_lobby_dents_halo_97809.htmlAzWm |
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