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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Nov 21, 2010 6:49:00 GMT -8
I have no truk with greedy grubbing conservatives.
This attitude of "We stole the money fair and square through immoral legal process and we will not share it with the poor that we stole it from" is totally and satanically evil.
I will coin a term called the "BASIC PREMISE OF MANKIND" and that can be best explained as:
"All human beings have a right to expect that they can be free from Starvation, Exposure, Chronic Treatable Illness and Violent Painful Death in their lifetimes."
The goal of any government enacted by man should be to that good. Failure to do so is an obscene failure of humanity to a degree that it takes us back to our caveman days. Yet, the satanic conservatives will tell you that is the way it should be.
Though measures can easily be taken to control this tremendous overpopulation problem on this planet, allowing people to die miserable deaths like in Haiti in the Americas or provinces like Uttar Pradesh in India or in many countries of Central Africa is totally wrong. Allowing deprivation of the masses in our own country is equally as evil and should have been eliminated many years ago when we rallied behind a "War on Poverty" but got sidetracked in a senseless Asian war that should never have been fought. So many lives lost for no reason whatsoever.
To deny people proper medical care is wrong when we have the means to give that care to the whole planet if we only desired to do so. Annually in the world a hundred million or more people die painful needless death because curative medicine that is available to the rich is denied the poor.
If any damned Conservative comes on this board and says that this present condition is justified I hope he is damned to the deepest depths of hell for his lack of concern for his fellow human by the deity he believes in. He deserves such detestation from his god or gods.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Nov 21, 2010 6:54:02 GMT -8
The schtick continues.
Gotta give ol' Aztec Joe credit for carrying on his routine. He certainly comes across as earnest...
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Post by waztec on Nov 21, 2010 6:57:59 GMT -8
Joe, usually I think you are putting us all on, because you get it better than most of us. But, this post sounded serious and not like the normal tongue and cheek thing you have going.
I will only say that the way we treat sick people without means says something about who we are.
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Nov 21, 2010 7:11:11 GMT -8
Joe, usually I think you are putting us all on, because you get it better than most of us. But, this post sounded serious and not like the normal tongue and cheek thing you have going. I will only say that the way we treat sick people without means says something about who we are. YOU ARE RIGHT. It was so easy in the past to poke fun at the Liberals and the Conservatives in American politics because neither side ever got anything "really" done for the collective public good. But, damn it, the more I have thought about this the reality has finally set in. It could be that I have finally developed a conscience, which does not speak very well of my conscience for the past 63 years; but, at least, I am moving in the right direction. Still the fact remains that government is instituted by man to serve man in his entirety all over the globe. Somehow, we have miserably and disgustingly failed. We need to hold government to a new standard and we need to expect results on a local, national and global basis. UP TO THIS POINT IN HISTORY WE HAVE FAILED! |
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Post by waztec on Nov 21, 2010 7:23:02 GMT -8
Joe, usually I think you are putting us all on, because you get it better than most of us. But, this post sounded serious and not like the normal tongue and cheek thing you have going. I will only say that the way we treat sick people without means says something about who we are. YOU ARE RIGHT. It was so easy in the past to poke fun at the Liberals and the Conservatives in American politics because neither side ever got anything "really" done for the collective public good. But, damn it, the more I have thought about this the reality has finally set in. It could be that I have finally developed a conscience, which does not speak very well of my conscience for the past 63 years; but, at least, I am moving in the right direction. Still the fact remains that government is instituted by man to serve man in his entirety all over the globe. Somehow, we have miserably and disgustingly failed. We need to hold government to a new standard and we need to expect results on a local, national and global basis. UP TO THIS POINT IN HISTORY WE HAVE FAILED! My mother had a saying. "Bill," she would whisper when we were having a conversation, "I am smart enough to know exactly what is happening to me." My mother had an I.Q of about 150. I offer you her intonation. |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Nov 21, 2010 7:42:50 GMT -8
So individuals have no responsibility for their own lives - government will pick up the pieces and save them no matter how stupid their personal decisions are. No accountability, just bail people out without end.
There are two sides to this discussion.
When people have NO consequences for their actions society will crumble. People will not do the right thing - they will do the expedient thing, or the thing that feels right at the time (even though they know it's not), or the thing that's just the most fun.
People MUST take responsibility and accountability for their own lives and actions.
Society cannot continually bail out people who don't want to do the right thing. Society cannot continually bail out those who are irresponsible.
Where is the line drawn? Who really deserves help, and who deserves to be allowed to fall on their faces?
If someone makes really, really bad decisions (and a lot of people do) KNOWING the consequences why should government bail them out?? Doesn't that set a horrible precedent?
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Nov 21, 2010 8:05:40 GMT -8
So individuals have no responsibility for their own lives - government will pick up the pieces and save them no matter how stupid their personal decisions are. No accountability, just bail people out without end. There are two sides to this discussion. When people have NO consequences for their actions society will crumble. People will not do the right thing - they will do the expedient thing, or the thing that feels right at the time (even though they know it's not), or the thing that's just the most fun. People MUST take responsibility and accountability for their own lives and actions. Society cannot continually bail out people who don't want to do the right thing. Society cannot continually bail out those who are irresponsible. Where is the line drawn? Who really deserves help, and who deserves to be allowed to fall on their faces? If someone makes really, really bad decisions (and a lot of people do) KNOWING the consequences why should government bail them out?? Doesn't that set a horrible precedent? The other side to the discussion is the traditional Conservative position that I have pointed out in the past, "I've got mine, so fug you!" I may have coined that, too, though I am certain that somebody like Marx or Engles or Lenin must have come up with it before me. They were very highly intelligent men who realized that there was something wrong with the system. Their solution would not be my solution, but something that approximated the direction of their solution is necessary. It was necessary yesterday, and most definitely is necessary tomorrow. |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Nov 21, 2010 8:11:36 GMT -8
Joe, I know it's just schtick, but come on. Only a tiny minority of conservatives have enough to even be able to say, "I've got mine."
Most conservatives are in the middle class, and you know it. We're not rich, we haven't been given anything - we've earned what we have and just expect others to put forth the same kind of effort in life.
And there are also those other points that I made that are very pertinent to the discussion...
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Post by ptsdthor on Nov 22, 2010 8:53:35 GMT -8
Isn't it really...
I've got mine and I feel a bit guilty about it. I didn't work that hard for it, nobody I know is paying for it, it was almost a gift. I wish someone could make this guilt go away. This feeling is not very nice, believe me. So don't you try to go out and get yours.
In fact, I think it would be best to make it very hard for you to ever get yours. Non-inflation indexed AMT and other progressive tax rates should kick-in just as you are about to make ends meet.
Lets make sure that any business you create will not allow you to get yours and we will tax it's profits at globally high rates, we will force it into supporting Unionized salaries and pensions if it grows to any size larger than a hobby, and we will make it fund every sort of social program known to man even before you get your own pay check.
And let make sure any investments you make will not give you the ability to say you have yours and we will tax it heavily when you go collect the fruits of your patient saving and investment.
And your Parents, lets make sure you don't get too much of their estate when they pass away. For they, like me, felt guilty about what they have made for themselves in this world and they didn't really want you to have a significant portion of it anyhow.... I can tell you that they really wanted the government to have it.
Sure, you can tax mine some but I've got so much for doing so little, it won't affect me. And while there is significant misery in unemployment that will remain high under my fiscal policies, think of the guilt it saves me knowing that the government has very inefficiently helped a small segment of the "little people" with much of your money.
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Nov 22, 2010 12:24:42 GMT -8
Isn't it really... I've got mine and I feel a bit guilty about it. I didn't work that hard for it, nobody I know is paying for it, it was almost a gift. I wish someone could make this guilt go away. This feeling is not very nice, believe me. So don't you try to go out and get yours. In fact, I think it would be best to make it very hard for you to ever get yours. Non-inflation indexed AMT and other progressive tax rates should kick-in just as you are about to make ends meet. Lets make sure that any business you create will not allow you to get yours and we will tax it's profits at globally high rates, we will force it into supporting Unionized salaries and pensions if it grows to any size larger than a hobby, and we will make it fund every sort of social program known to man even before you get your own pay check. And let make sure any investments you make will not give you the ability to say you have yours and we will tax it heavily when you go collect the fruits of your patient saving and investment. And your Parents, lets make sure you don't get too much of their estate when they pass away. For they, like me, felt guilty about what they have made for themselves in this world and they didn't really want you to have a significant portion of it anyhow.... I can tell you that they really wanted the government to have it. Sure, you can tax mine some but I've got so much for doing so little, it won't affect me. And while there is significant misery in unemployment that will remain high under my fiscal policies, think of the guilt it saves me knowing that the government has very inefficiently helped a small segment of the "little people" with much of your money. This is totally unbecoming for a son of Thor. Whine, Whine, Whine ad infinitum......... In Norway they pay fifty percent of their income for taxes so that all have a decent quality of life. The Norwegians are such a wonderful giving people. One would never thing that one thousand years ago they were raiding, raping and pillaging Christian Europe. |
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Post by ptsdthor on Nov 22, 2010 12:45:14 GMT -8
Isn't it really... I've got mine and I feel a bit guilty about it. I didn't work that hard for it, nobody I know is paying for it, it was almost a gift. I wish someone could make this guilt go away. This feeling is not very nice, believe me. So don't you try to go out and get yours. In fact, I think it would be best to make it very hard for you to ever get yours. Non-inflation indexed AMT and other progressive tax rates should kick-in just as you are about to make ends meet. Lets make sure that any business you create will not allow you to get yours and we will tax it's profits at globally high rates, we will force it into supporting Unionized salaries and pensions if it grows to any size larger than a hobby, and we will make it fund every sort of social program known to man even before you get your own pay check. And let make sure any investments you make will not give you the ability to say you have yours and we will tax it heavily when you go collect the fruits of your patient saving and investment. And your Parents, lets make sure you don't get too much of their estate when they pass away. For they, like me, felt guilty about what they have made for themselves in this world and they didn't really want you to have a significant portion of it anyhow.... I can tell you that they really wanted the government to have it. Sure, you can tax mine some but I've got so much for doing so little, it won't affect me. And while there is significant misery in unemployment that will remain high under my fiscal policies, think of the guilt it saves me knowing that the government has very inefficiently helped a small segment of the "little people" with much of your money. This is totally unbecoming for a son of Thor. Whine, Whine, Whine ad infinitum......... In Norway they pay fifty percent of their income for taxes so that all have a decent quality of life. The Norwegians are such a wonderful giving people. One would never thing that one thousand years ago they were raiding, raping and pillaging Christian Europe. Yes, but the the Norwegians are pulling new money out of their as....err North Sea to fund their welfare state. If we got something like that going for the US, please sign me up! |
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Post by aztecwin on Nov 22, 2010 16:48:45 GMT -8
Isn't it really... I've got mine and I feel a bit guilty about it. I didn't work that hard for it, nobody I know is paying for it, it was almost a gift. I wish someone could make this guilt go away. This feeling is not very nice, believe me. So don't you try to go out and get yours. In fact, I think it would be best to make it very hard for you to ever get yours. Non-inflation indexed AMT and other progressive tax rates should kick-in just as you are about to make ends meet. Lets make sure that any business you create will not allow you to get yours and we will tax it's profits at globally high rates, we will force it into supporting Unionized salaries and pensions if it grows to any size larger than a hobby, and we will make it fund every sort of social program known to man even before you get your own pay check. And let make sure any investments you make will not give you the ability to say you have yours and we will tax it heavily when you go collect the fruits of your patient saving and investment. And your Parents, lets make sure you don't get too much of their estate when they pass away. For they, like me, felt guilty about what they have made for themselves in this world and they didn't really want you to have a significant portion of it anyhow.... I can tell you that they really wanted the government to have it. Sure, you can tax mine some but I've got so much for doing so little, it won't affect me. And while there is significant misery in unemployment that will remain high under my fiscal policies, think of the guilt it saves me knowing that the government has very inefficiently helped a small segment of the "little people" with much of your money. This is totally unbecoming for a son of Thor. Whine, Whine, Whine ad infinitum......... In Norway they pay fifty percent of their income for taxes so that all have a decent quality of life. The Norwegians are such a wonderful giving people. One would never thing that one thousand years ago they were raiding, raping and pillaging Christian Europe. One thing that stuck with the Vikings was Christianity. It was while they were ravaging Europe that they converted from Paganism to Christianity and it was about a thousand years ago. Funny how I will put Paganism in caps but liberalism is always lower case.  |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 22, 2010 18:29:44 GMT -8
This is totally unbecoming for a son of Thor. Whine, Whine, Whine ad infinitum......... In Norway they pay fifty percent of their income for taxes so that all have a decent quality of life. The Norwegians are such a wonderful giving people. One would never thing that one thousand years ago they were raiding, raping and pillaging Christian Europe. Yes, but the the Norwegians are pulling new money out of their as....err North Sea to fund their welfare state. If we got something like that going for the US, please sign me up! Do you know how much of their budget if funded by oil revenues? |
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Post by ptsdthor on Nov 22, 2010 19:13:16 GMT -8
Yes, but the the Norwegians are pulling new money out of their as....err North Sea to fund their welfare state. If we got something like that going for the US, please sign me up! Do you know how much of their budget if funded by oil revenues? Try Wikipedia for some general numbers. Petroleum and Petroleum Products are listed first in exports and exports outpace imports by about a factor of two. I doubt it is sardines and Kipper snacks that fund their welfare state. |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 22, 2010 21:39:08 GMT -8
Do you know how much of their budget if funded by oil revenues? Try Wikipedia for some general numbers. Petroleum and Petroleum Products are listed first in exports and exports outpace imports by about a factor of two. I doubt it is sardines and Kipper snacks that fund their welfare state. Since you were posting I thought perhaps you knew something. The data I found says about 12% of Norway's budget. |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Nov 22, 2010 22:02:55 GMT -8
we haven't been given anything Except, in most cases, INHERITANCE...the most gigantic advantage anyone can ever have. Baloney. Most people don't inherit squat until they're in their 50's or 60's - and even then most don't inherit a whole heck of a lot. My parents certainly didn't. This class warfare and class envy thing is wrecking our country. Where we should be celebrating success we instead demonize it and make mediocrity a virtue. |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 22, 2010 22:49:59 GMT -8
This is totally unbecoming for a son of Thor. Whine, Whine, Whine ad infinitum......... In Norway they pay fifty percent of their income for taxes so that all have a decent quality of life. The Norwegians are such a wonderful giving people. One would never thing that one thousand years ago they were raiding, raping and pillaging Christian Europe. Yes, but the the Norwegians are pulling new money out of their as....err North Sea to fund their welfare state. If we got something like that going for the US, please sign me up! One way to get better income from oil in our waters is to stop giving subsidys to oil companys. I bet we give away billions in tax and royalty forgiveness to companys that make billions. |
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Post by aztec70 on Nov 22, 2010 23:59:22 GMT -8
Except, in most cases, INHERITANCE...the most gigantic advantage anyone can ever have. Baloney. Most people don't inherit squat until they're in their 50's or 60's - and even then most don't inherit a whole heck of a lot. My parents certainly didn't. This class warfare and class envy thing is wrecking our country. Where we should be celebrating success we instead demonize it and make mediocrity a virtue. I agree with your first paragraph. If parents are poor you will inherit personal property of little monetary value, but rich in sentimental value. If your parents are middle class you will get more. Not enough to retire on, but helpful. Most parents of boomers retired on defined benefit pensions, social security, and personal savings. Only the personal savings and real property will pass to survivors. This will be more than than the parents inherited. So this is positive. Since the poor and the middle class are the vast majority, most people will get squat, but more than in previous times as the middle class is larger than before. If your family is rich you will inherit more. This is as it always has been. Your second paragraph is just a typical conservative rant that has little connection to reality.  |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Nov 23, 2010 6:59:57 GMT -8
Baloney. Most people don't inherit squat until they're in their 50's or 60's - and even then most don't inherit a whole heck of a lot. My parents certainly didn't. This class warfare and class envy thing is wrecking our country. Where we should be celebrating success we instead demonize it and make mediocrity a virtue. I agree with your first paragraph. If parents are poor you will inherit personal property of little monetary value, but rich in sentimental value. If your parents are middle class you will get more. Not enough to retire on, but helpful. Most parents of boomers retired on defined benefit pensions, social security, and personal savings. Only the personal savings and real property will pass to survivors. This will be more than than the parents inherited. So this is positive. Since the poor and the middle class are the vast majority, most people will get squat, but more than in previous times as the middle class is larger than before. If your family is rich you will inherit more. This is as it always has been. Your second paragraph is just a typical conservative rant that has little connection to reality. So you think that attacking those who are successful is good? You think that fomenting envy and bitterness towards people who have achieved and are successful/well off by those who have less is good? Because that's been the Democrats' playbook for the last 35 years... |
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Post by ptsdthor on Nov 23, 2010 7:59:33 GMT -8
Try Wikipedia for some general numbers. Petroleum and Petroleum Products are listed first in exports and exports outpace imports by about a factor of two. I doubt it is sardines and Kipper snacks that fund their welfare state. Since you were posting I thought perhaps you knew something. The data I found says about 12% of Norway's budget. Not having the total down to the penny doesn't mean you don't know something. Do you think that Norway's welfare state is not significantly funded by the oil export surplus? And what does 12% of their budget mean? Is that directly from state owned oil revenue? What about the average citizen who works in their oil industry with their very high wages and their ability to pay the taxes for their welfare state? Are those tax revenues in or out of the 12%? From Wikipedia - Export revenues from oil and gas have risen to 45% of total exports and constitute more than 20% of the GDP. I'm not sure what fact I stated about Norway that you are seemingly trying to avoid? |
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