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Post by pbnative on Sept 16, 2015 17:28:21 GMT -8
Only if you agree to not interfere with the conversation! I think it would be in everyone's best interst if you followed you father's example and created a 2nd account that you post as a member, and only log into the mod account when things get out of hand. We are all adults, we can all stand up for ourselves. We don't need a chaperone hovering. As long as the rules are followed there won't be any need for a chaperone. Just be respectful of everyone on the board and there won't be a need for any Moderation. Again, accept that other people's opinions and beliefs about the athletic programs are valid to them. We all need to step it up. You were absent for most of the offseason and things were good. No problems no issues. In the last 2 weeks, this place has had several issues, mostly moderator related... Wht don't you discuss that with your fellow mods.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 16, 2015 17:34:15 GMT -8
Let's discuss how we moderate the board on this thread. All feedback will be welcomed.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 16, 2015 17:39:11 GMT -8
As long as the rules are followed there won't be any need for a chaperone. Just be respectful of everyone on the board and there won't be a need for any Moderation. Again, accept that other people's opinions and beliefs about the athletic programs are valid to them. We all need to step it up. You were absent for most of the offseason and things were good. No problems no issues. In the last 2 weeks, this place has had several issues, mostly moderator related... Why don't you discuss that with your fellow mods. Well, there wasn't much that came up as it was prior to the start of the football season. With every football season activity is ratcheted up a lot, as is the conflict. At this point I would just like to minimize the personal conflict between board members and have everyone focus on the topics. All I'm going to do is make sure that everyone is following the rules. I just want people to respect the opinions of others. You don't have to agree with them, and they don't have to agree with you - I'd just like to see a little more courtesy and respect from both parties when there are disagreements. That's all.
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Post by longtimesdsufan on Sept 17, 2015 6:06:05 GMT -8
The Mod authority should not be used to modify members posts because of the Mod's personal position on a subject. Make a decision, is it the members board of the Moderator's board.
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Post by pbnative on Sept 17, 2015 7:23:53 GMT -8
You were absent for most of the offseason and things were good. No problems no issues. In the last 2 weeks, this place has had several issues, mostly moderator related... Why don't you discuss that with your fellow mods. Well, there wasn't much that came up as it was prior to the start of the football season. With every football season activity is ratcheted up a lot, as is the conflict. At this point I would just like to minimize the personal conflict between board members and have everyone focus on the topics. All I'm going to do is make sure that everyone is following the rules. I just want people to respect the opinions of others. You don't have to agree with them, and they don't have to agree with you - I'd just like to see a little more courtesy and respect from both parties when there are disagreements. That's all. That is plain BS. I there were plenty of posters throwing their weight around and bad mouthing each other. I refer you to every stadium threads Pretty pathetic you silently move members simple comments into a hiden section of the site.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 17, 2015 8:42:15 GMT -8
Well, there wasn't much that came up as it was prior to the start of the football season. With every football season activity is ratcheted up a lot, as is the conflict. At this point I would just like to minimize the personal conflict between board members and have everyone focus on the topics. All I'm going to do is make sure that everyone is following the rules. I just want people to respect the opinions of others. You don't have to agree with them, and they don't have to agree with you - I'd just like to see a little more courtesy and respect from both parties when there are disagreements. That's all. That is plain BS. I there were plenty of posters throwing their weight around and bad mouthing each other. I refer you to every stadium threads Pretty pathetic you silently move members simple comments into a hiden section of the site. If you hadn't noticed, I haven't participated in any Stadium thread since about February. I can only address what I read.
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Post by azson on Sept 17, 2015 9:32:01 GMT -8
Let's discuss how we moderate the board on this thread. All feedback will be welcomed. Absolutely agree with PB's suggestion that you create a second account, like your dad has. Your dad and I rarely agree (and I have issues with his poli-board moderating) but I appreciate that at least it's always clear what hat he's wearing.
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Post by pbnative on Sept 17, 2015 12:07:45 GMT -8
That is plain BS. I there were plenty of posters throwing their weight around and bad mouthing each other. I refer you to every stadium threads Pretty pathetic you silently move members simple comments into a hiden section of the site. If you hadn't noticed, I haven't participated in any Stadium thread since about February. I can only address what I read. THAT is EXACTLY the point!!! You were not involved in any thread since February and the board was a good place. Sure there was a little prodding between members, but there were not any issues... Fast forward to now and the board is a $hit show. Only change has been YOU! YOU are the damn problem. You can't control yourself, lack good judgment, and to top it off you are power hungry. You might want to take the suggestion of the dozens of posters who have complained, stopped posting or abandoned the board all together and just log out as a mod. You can't handle the responsibility.
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Sept 17, 2015 12:28:14 GMT -8
I only edit content for spelling, grammar & usage. I try to "imagine" in some cases WTH the poster was trying to say. If I need a personal or actually a MOD account let me know!
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Post by pbnative on Sept 17, 2015 12:37:56 GMT -8
I only edit content for spelling, grammar & usage. I try to "imagine" in some cases WTH the poster was trying to say. If I need a personal or actually a MOD account let me know! I honestly didn't even know you were a mod. You sir are a shining example.
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Sept 17, 2015 12:40:00 GMT -8
I only edit content for spelling, grammar & usage. I try to "imagine" in some cases WTH the poster was trying to say. If I need a personal or actually a MOD account let me know! I honestly didn't even know you were a mod. You sir are a shining example. If you look at my AVATAR, I am: Sgt. Joe Friday!
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 17, 2015 13:08:05 GMT -8
If you hadn't noticed, I haven't participated in any Stadium thread since about February. I can only address what I read. THAT is EXACTLY the point!!! You were not involved in any thread since February and the board was a good place. Sure there was a little prodding between members, but there were not any issues... Fast forward to now and the board is a $hit show. Only change has been YOU! YOU are the damn problem. You can't control yourself, lack good judgment, and to top it off you are power hungry. You might want to take the suggestion of the dozens of posters who have complained, stopped posting or abandoned the board all together and just log out as a mod. You can't handle the responsibility. Look, the forum rules exist for a reason. Boorish behavior (namecalling, insults, personal criticism of other board members) is not allowed. Make your point without making it personal towards the other guy. It's not that hard. We just want the board to be halfway civil. Be tolerant of other views and opinions. Again, it's not that hard. I don't see the problem with that. Hell, if everyone did that we almost wouldn't even need to moderate the board.
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Post by pbnative on Sept 17, 2015 15:54:47 GMT -8
THAT is EXACTLY the point!!! You were not involved in any thread since February and the board was a good place. Sure there was a little prodding between members, but there were not any issues... Fast forward to now and the board is a $hit show. Only change has been YOU! YOU are the damn problem. You can't control yourself, lack good judgment, and to top it off you are power hungry. You might want to take the suggestion of the dozens of posters who have complained, stopped posting or abandoned the board all together and just log out as a mod. You can't handle the responsibility. Look, the forum rules exist for a reason. Boorish behavior (namecalling, insults, personal criticism of other board members) is not allowed. Make your point without making it personal towards the other guy. It's not that hard. We just want the board to be halfway civil. Be tolerant of other views and opinions. Again, it's not that hard. I don't see the problem with that. Hell, if everyone did that we almost wouldn't even need to moderate the board. Go read the latest stadium thread and repremand and delete ab's posts then. Again there weren't issues until you showed up. You seem to be the only one that sees these mystery personal attacks. If someone takes offense to something, thenthat is what they little report button is for, but I guess you would rather be the gestapo.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 17, 2015 17:31:48 GMT -8
Look, the forum rules exist for a reason. Boorish behavior (namecalling, insults, personal criticism of other board members) is not allowed. Make your point without making it personal towards the other guy. It's not that hard. We just want the board to be halfway civil. Be tolerant of other views and opinions. Again, it's not that hard. I don't see the problem with that. Hell, if everyone did that we almost wouldn't even need to moderate the board. Go read the latest stadium thread and repremand and delete ab's posts then. Again there weren't issues until you showed up. You seem to be the only one that sees these mystery personal attacks. If someone takes offense to something, then that is what the little report button is for, but I guess you would rather be the gestapo. The report button is fairly ineffective compared to a PM. (The reported posts get lumped in with a bunch of other unrelated reports.) More importantly, though, you seem to have a problem with the idea that there are forum rules against personal insults, criticisms, and attacks. Why do you have a problem with that? Is the freedom you seek the freedom to engage in namecalling or personal jabs? If it is, this will be the wrong place for that going forward. This isn't a frat party. Most of us are too old for that kind of $#!+, anyway. (I know I am...) So you can be part of the problem or part of the solution. I have committed to making this a better fan forum by moderating my tone. It is a commitment that I have kept since the Tuesday following the USD game, and then a more moderate tone I made it a point to start using a couple days ago. What will you do to make this a better fan forum? Snarky, angry comments do not improve anything. Many of the comments directed at me (by a handful of board members) would be far better served going by PM. Openly attacking a Mod for everyone to read suggests an agenda. It also sets a precedent that if the Mod can be attacked so can anyone else. That isn't a precedent we're going to allow - with the exception of this sub-forum. Being open and honest in a PM with your concerns not only doesn't create something that looks bad on the open board, it facilitates greater, more effective dialogue. I have always addressed concerns by PM, and have done so respectfully and with serious consideration, and I will continue to do so.
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Post by HighNTight on Sept 17, 2015 18:04:01 GMT -8
And complaining & whining about to 2 games into the season will change it how? Well, it certainly allows for disappointed fans to blow off steam, doesn't it? And, apparently, those in the know find out that the fans are not content with the program as is at that point. OK, I'm assuming you misunderstood my point. I thought my winky-face emoticon would make it clear. It was a tongue in cheek comment. ALTHOUGH there was a serious lack of tolerance when he said, "If you're not having fun - find some other place to be." That one comment was unnecessary and intolerant, but the rest of his post was well thought out and absolutely reasonable. Some people do have a hard time, "Enjoying the ride," when the offense looks absolutely horrible when facing an FCS Non Scholarship team and when we're losing 35-7. That isn't a very enjoyable ride, and I'm sure you would agree with that. I think you will see plenty of positivity when we win games decisively and when we beat good opponents. There will be plenty to celebrate when that happens (and I'm confident that will happen multiple times this year). But that doesn't mean that people won't have valid critical points when the team struggles against teams they should beat handily, or loses games they could have won. What I want to see is TOLERANCE on both sides. I don't want people taking comments about the team personally, and I don't want people overreacting when people support Rocky Long (as if it were intended as a carte blanche endorsement for him to keep the job as long as he likes). EVERYONE needs to tone down the rhetoric. Both sides. We're all Aztec fans and we should support each other even if we disagree. We can all be part of the solution or continue to be part of the problem. I would like to see everyone commit to NOT being part of the problem going forward. I have given that commitment myself. My posts over the last two weeks have been much different in tone than the post USD game posts. And they will continue to be muted when compared to the posts following that game. I would expect no less from those who have gotten bent out of shape over the Rocky critics. I'm still going to post my honest opinions and feelings about the football program. As should everyone. I'm just going to do so in a more measured tone. I'll still be critical when warranted - very critical, possibly (if warranted), but I will make it a point to measure the negativity with recognition of what the team does well. So, again, everyone on this board can be part of the solution or part of the problem. Hostility and anger towards other board members is a huge part of the problem. There will be no room for that kind of thing on The Mesa going forward. The one word I keep coming back to is tolerance. We need more tolerance of different viewpoints on The Mesa. That doesn't mean you have to agree, but accept and respect the right of people to post opinions that you may completely disagree with without making snarky comments belittling the person posting those opinions. This is directed at everyone, not just the pro-Rocky side, but the Rocky critics as well. Please take this as constructive criticism ... there is such a thing as over-moderation. It might be better for the board as a whole to not micro-manage posts and just let small incidents slide and intercede only when something gets out of hand. By interjecting yourself in such a minor matter, you may actually be the cause of escalation. This may be an instance where as a non-mod user, you could just bold that part and reply that it's a bit insensitive to have said that and every user should be welcome. Think of it as moderation by influence, rather than direct action and without extensive verbiage.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 17, 2015 18:10:12 GMT -8
Well, it certainly allows for disappointed fans to blow off steam, doesn't it? And, apparently, those in the know find out that the fans are not content with the program as is at that point. OK, I'm assuming you misunderstood my point. I thought my winky-face emoticon would make it clear. It was a tongue in cheek comment. ALTHOUGH there was a serious lack of tolerance when he said, "If you're not having fun - find some other place to be." That one comment was unnecessary and intolerant, but the rest of his post was well thought out and absolutely reasonable. Some people do have a hard time, "Enjoying the ride," when the offense looks absolutely horrible when facing an FCS Non Scholarship team and when we're losing 35-7. That isn't a very enjoyable ride, and I'm sure you would agree with that. I think you will see plenty of positivity when we win games decisively and when we beat good opponents. There will be plenty to celebrate when that happens (and I'm confident that will happen multiple times this year). But that doesn't mean that people won't have valid critical points when the team struggles against teams they should beat handily, or loses games they could have won. What I want to see is TOLERANCE on both sides. I don't want people taking comments about the team personally, and I don't want people overreacting when people support Rocky Long (as if it were intended as a carte blanche endorsement for him to keep the job as long as he likes). EVERYONE needs to tone down the rhetoric. Both sides. We're all Aztec fans and we should support each other even if we disagree. We can all be part of the solution or continue to be part of the problem. I would like to see everyone commit to NOT being part of the problem going forward. I have given that commitment myself. My posts over the last two weeks have been much different in tone than the post USD game posts. And they will continue to be muted when compared to the posts following that game. I would expect no less from those who have gotten bent out of shape over the Rocky critics. I'm still going to post my honest opinions and feelings about the football program. As should everyone. I'm just going to do so in a more measured tone. I'll still be critical when warranted - very critical, possibly (if warranted), but I will make it a point to measure the negativity with recognition of what the team does well. So, again, everyone on this board can be part of the solution or part of the problem. Hostility and anger towards other board members is a huge part of the problem. There will be no room for that kind of thing on The Mesa going forward. The one word I keep coming back to is tolerance. We need more tolerance of different viewpoints on The Mesa. That doesn't mean you have to agree, but accept and respect the right of people to post opinions that you may completely disagree with without making snarky comments belittling the person posting those opinions. This is directed at everyone, not just the pro-Rocky side, but the Rocky critics as well. Please take this as constructive criticism ... there is such a thing as over-moderation. It might be better for the board as a whole to not micro-manage posts and just let small incidents slide and intercede only when something gets out of hand. By interjecting yourself in such a minor matter, you may actually be the cause of escalation. This may be an instance where as a non-mod user, you could just bold that part and reply that it's a bit insensitive to have said that and every user should be welcome. Think of it as moderation by influence, rather than direct action and without extensive verbiage. And this is an area in which we disagree. I do not believe in allowing people to behave badly. It results in a chilling effect with some people (who don't want to be personally criticized for their opinions), and the opposite effect with others (who then want to escalate the tit for tat war of words). I've seen it here and on two previous Aztec Talk boards far too many times to allow that kind of thing to snowball here. We have a difference of opinion. I can respect that. But I do have an obligation to do what I believe is the right thing, and to take the actions that I believe will be the most effective in doing the right thing.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2015 18:37:28 GMT -8
So, I am no longer banned? Thanks guys. I really appreciate the warning. I never attacked another poster. If you find my message board persona to be irritating... What is it the kids were saying a couple of years ago? Oh, yes... Sorry not sorry.
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Post by sdcoug on Sept 17, 2015 22:10:02 GMT -8
Oh I accept that. It's just sad. They don't think so, so there's no need to editorialize on how they view the program. It's valid for them. Even if it isn't for you or for me it is for them. That's valid enough. Be tolerant of different views. It is fair game, however, without judgment of people who feel otherwise, to point out what you believe the long term consequences of not elevating the program are. Just leave out any value judgments of people on the other side of the debate and things should go a lot more smoothly around here. I'm curious if, as a mod, you realize how belittling your tone is here, and that's a serious question. It's enough for some people to not be where we were at with Chuck Long? Some people have a lot of patience? Really? You don't think your tone and "direction" is part of the reason this board has skewed so far negative, and this is your changed, more balanced tone? You imply "them" have lower expectations and people who are enjoying the past 5 years, which happens to also be the most successful in decades, haven't "evaluated the program" when that is very much not the case. I'mean sure you do realize the chasm between where were and where we are is gigantic, right? Your suggestion when someone says it's "sad" when someone doesn't agree with him is to suggest why not "evaluating the program has long term consequences"? Wow. It just tells me you haven't heard a word many of us have said. You really should consider stepping down as mod or posting on a separate account. You're really not doing yourself or this board any good right now. Sorry not to take that suggestion to your private comments link, but pointing out your "tone" in this specific exchange is necessary to make the point. Enjoying the football team's success, understanding losses, wanting more but not feeling obligated to always take a negative viewpoint doesn't mean someone has lower expectations nor hasn't fully evaluated the direction of the team. Many believe their evaluation is simply different, and believe in the direction of the program given its current leadership. But back to the original point. When playing the role of mod you might want to think twice about belittling the opinions of some of the participants. Thanks.
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Post by HighNTight on Sept 17, 2015 22:17:32 GMT -8
They don't think so, so there's no need to editorialize on how they view the program. It's valid for them. Even if it isn't for you or for me it is for them. That's valid enough. Be tolerant of different views. It is fair game, however, without judgment of people who feel otherwise, to point out what you believe the long term consequences of not elevating the program are. Just leave out any value judgments of people on the other side of the debate and things should go a lot more smoothly around here. I'm curious if, as a mod, you realize how belittling your tone is here, and that's a serious question. It's enough for some people to not be where we were at with Chuck Long? Some people have a lot of patience? Really? You don't think your tone and "direction" is part of the reason this board has skewed so far negative, and this is your changed, more balanced tone? You imply "them" have lower expectations and people who are enjoying the past 5 years, which happens to also be the most successful in decades, haven't "evaluated the program" when that is very much not the case. I'mean sure you do realize the chasm between where were and where we are is gigantic, right? Your suggestion when someone says it's "sad" when someone doesn't agree with him is to suggest why not "evaluating the program has long term consequences"? Wow. It just tells me you haven't heard a word many of us have said. You really should consider stepping down as mod or posting on a separate account. You're really not doing yourself or this board any good right now. Sorry not to take that suggestion to your private comments link, but pointing out your "tone" in this specific exchange is necessary to make the point. Enjoying the football team's success, understanding losses, wanting more but not feeling obligated to always take a negative viewpoint doesn't mean someone has lower expectations nor hasn't fully evaluated the direction of the team. Many believe their evaluation is simply different, and believe in the direction of the program given its current leadership. But back to the original point. When playing the role of mod you might want to think twice about belittling the opinions of some of the participants. Thanks. Solid post, but it'll most likely be moved to that black hole that all suggestions go (positive or negative) and it's contents probably ignored ...
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 18, 2015 5:26:53 GMT -8
They don't think so, so there's no need to editorialize on how they view the program. It's valid for them. Even if it isn't for you or for me it is for them. That's valid enough. Be tolerant of different views. It is fair game, however, without judgment of people who feel otherwise, to point out what you believe the long term consequences of not elevating the program are. Just leave out any value judgments of people on the other side of the debate and things should go a lot more smoothly around here. I'm curious if, as a mod, you realize how belittling your tone is here, and that's a serious question. It's enough for some people to not be where we were at with Chuck Long? Some people have a lot of patience? Really? You don't think your tone and "direction" is part of the reason this board has skewed so far negative, and this is your changed, more balanced tone? I'm going for a middle of the road tone. I made it clear that MOW went a little too far in his post. And I made it clear that all points of view are valid. What more do you want? Well, it depends on at what point you're talking about. If you're talking about when I was a kid first watching Aztec football in the 70's, yeah it's a HUGE chasm. We are nowhere near as good now (and over the last 5 years) as we were in the 70's. Of course, you're not talking about how good we were in the 70's, and you probably didn't even realize that I view this program by the potential it has and the level it was at when I first became a fan. So maybe you should check your own belittling tone and ask yourself if you have heard a word that people on the side that don't believe in Rocky as the right guy to elevate this program have been saying. It works both ways. And, for the record, you inferred something I never implied. You let your own biases inform your interpretation of what I wrote. Sure, I can accept that. Of course, by not going to PM you do open questions as to why you are posting these comments publicly. This whole exchange SHOULD be handled by PM, and on EVERY OTHER BOARD that I post on (currently about 6) repeated posts like yours and HighNTights (critical of a mod and calling for him to step down) would get you banned. So I have to wonder why you refuse to handle this where the discussion could be the most open and productive. I have noted time and again that we need to be tolerant of the views that others have, and time and again you and HighNTight do your best to find fault rather than looking in the mirror and asking yourselves if your posts are making the board better. As I asked before - what are you going to do to make this a better board. I'm making a conscious effort to be tolerant and respectful. So what will you do to make The Mesa a better fan forum? We all have a role to play in making it better. Your criticism above rings hollow given the fact that I said that the Pro-Rocky side believes that we are on the right track and that such a belief is valid. I do not agree with that belief, so of course my comments are going to be a bit skewed - but they aren't judgmental. I can respect the fact that someone has a different view even if I believe them to be mistaken. You're being WAY too defensive if you believe they are. You aren't looking at my posts from the point of view of someone who grew up watching the Aztecs in the 70's and firmly believes that we can get back to 10 wins in the regular season sooner rather than later. I'm also very, VERY worried that the program will just be shut down if we can't get to 38k average attendance in the next 10 years (not counting SkyShow games, which skew the numbers). You don't take that into consideration, either. So you're just as guilty of what you accuse me of doing. Get past the differences, don't try to read something into comments which is not intended (or even implied), and let go of any past resentment. We are all too old to hold on to those kind of things. We are all AZTEC FANS. GO AZTECS!!!
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