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Post by Gundo on May 30, 2015 17:01:58 GMT -8
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Post by standiego on May 31, 2015 8:55:23 GMT -8
So for all of the transfers we landed Max - a reserve SF . Would have preferred Aaron or Williams . Just hope we can land Narain , Humphries , Cage .? or some one in the top 50 . So close this thread also
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Post by aztecryan on May 31, 2015 9:27:17 GMT -8
Hoetzel will be fine, Stan. We need shooters.
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Post by standiego on May 31, 2015 10:46:16 GMT -8
So of all the transfers on the list and there were a lot of them ,you think Max was one of the best available?. Many of the guys were starters He was #10 on the IU team last year and only made 10 threes all year . After they added their new recruits for 2015 and had 15 guys on scholarship he was not projected to be a starter or even a top reserve , . They brought in better players. we do not just need shooters , we need SCORERS .. As coach Fisher says guys that can score the basketball. If Max was so good why were the coaches really trying so hard to sign Aaron. after we had Max . To me if we can not add better players for 2016 then Max we are not doing a good job of recruiting . Max is a reserve at best . Hope we have Narain , Zylan , Cage , Bailey , or other talent up front that can create their own shot off the dribble , with Max spelling them .
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Post by fisherville on May 31, 2015 11:35:23 GMT -8
Lets just say that the reviews of people watching cage play of late have not been positive to say the least.
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Post by aztech on May 31, 2015 13:44:20 GMT -8
So of all the transfers on the list and there were a lot of them ,you think Max was one of the best available?. Many of the guys were starters He was #10 on the IU team last year and only made 10 threes all year . After they added their new recruits for 2015 and had 15 guys on scholarship he was not projected to be a starter or even a top reserve , . They brought in better players. we do not just need shooters , we need SCORERS .. As coach Fisher says guys that can score the basketball. If Max was so good why were the coaches really trying so hard to sign Aaron. after we had Max . To me if we can not add better players for 2016 then Max we are not doing a good job of recruiting . Max is a reserve at best . Hope we have Narain , Zylan , Cage , Bailey , or other talent up front that can create their own shot off the dribble , with Max spelling them . I'm getting a little concerned about our recruiting vs Boise State's recruiting. It better not show in the box scores.
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Post by fisherville on May 31, 2015 16:17:14 GMT -8
So of all the transfers on the list and there were a lot of them ,you think Max was one of the best available?. Many of the guys were starters He was #10 on the IU team last year and only made 10 threes all year . After they added their new recruits for 2015 and had 15 guys on scholarship he was not projected to be a starter or even a top reserve , . They brought in better players. we do not just need shooters , we need SCORERS .. As coach Fisher says guys that can score the basketball. If Max was so good why were the coaches really trying so hard to sign Aaron. after we had Max . To me if we can not add better players for 2016 then Max we are not doing a good job of recruiting . Max is a reserve at best . Hope we have Narain , Zylan , Cage , Bailey , or other talent up front that can create their own shot off the dribble , with Max spelling them . I'm getting a little concerned about our recruiting vs Boise State's recruiting. Huh? We are recruiting better than Boise.
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Post by standiego on Jun 1, 2015 7:20:46 GMT -8
BSU and SDSU both have quality PG's that are coming in for 2015 and could easily start as freshman . I do not know who else BSU has coming in they do have Dremic coming back after injury , we have Zylan and BJ . Last year BSU added their red shirt transfer Webb . The PAC schools had a fantastic job of recruiting for 2015 and are way ahead for 2016 , as is another school Gonzaga . and UNLV. . For all the transfers available , , we landed a reserve SF . We are definitely going to need to step up and really do a much better job of reloading for 2016 . Narain is a great start, if he signs . But there is a lot more quality work that needs to be done and wonder who we can sign .
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Post by sdcoug on Jun 1, 2015 7:24:40 GMT -8
So of all the transfers on the list and there were a lot of them ,you think Max was one of the best available?. Many of the guys were starters He was #10 on the IU team last year and only made 10 threes all year . After they added their new recruits for 2015 and had 15 guys on scholarship he was not projected to be a starter or even a top reserve , . They brought in better players. we do not just need shooters , we need SCORERS .. As coach Fisher says guys that can score the basketball. If Max was so good why were the coaches really trying so hard to sign Aaron. after we had Max . To me if we can not add better players for 2016 then Max we are not doing a good job of recruiting . Max is a reserve at best . Hope we have Narain , Zylan , Cage , Bailey , or other talent up front that can create their own shot off the dribble , with Max spelling them . Best available? No. Great addition? Hell yes.
We don't know how good Max will eventually be. He could end up being a stud starter, or a role player. How he was rated out of HS doesn't dictate a players future. Some develop later than others. We know Max is a great shooter; we know he can handle the ball; has good court awareness. All key qualities that make him a great addition. And YES, he's a SCORER.
Why recruit Aaron? Seriously? Several reasons. He's a talent; he has potential for good upside; we had a relationship with him prior; he plays a different position & is a different type of player than Max & the two would blend together perfectly; and you NEVER stop accumulating talent, especially when you have open spots on your roster. EVER.
You really need to get past the rankings hang-up.
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Post by sdcoug on Jun 1, 2015 7:26:54 GMT -8
So for all of the transfers we landed Max - a reserve SF . Would have preferred Aaron or Williams . Just hope we can land Narain , Humphries , Cage .? or some one in the top 50 . So close this thread also Curious, have you EVER watched a game Williams actually played in, or are you basing any and all observations off his rankings & highlight reels?
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Post by jpaztec on Jun 1, 2015 8:32:37 GMT -8
So for all of the transfers we landed Max - a reserve SF . Would have preferred Aaron or Williams . Just hope we can land Narain , Humphries , Cage .? or some one in the top 50 . So close this thread also Curious, have you EVER watched a game Williams actually played in, or are you basing any and all observations off his rankings & highlight reels?
I agree with Sdcoug on this one. Identifying traits that can contribute to filling a current hole on the roster is every bit as important as signing star players. We would all love to be Kentucky and have 5 star players coming off the bench, but in this world, role players are a huge part of how to build a successful team. I think Max is a very quality pickup because he brings a dimension to the team that we don't currently have, a floor spacer. Scorers are great and all, but life gets easier for the Dakarai Allen's and Zylan Cheatham's of the world who are proficient at getting to the rim, when there's a threat on the wing to keep the defense honest. In the case of Shaquann Aaron, absolutely you go for him, as it's not every day when pure talent comes knocking on your door, you answer that bell far more often than not. With Narain in the fold, I don't think Cage is nearly as critical as he once was. I hate to use the term "plateaued", but he's gradually regressing up the Rivals rankings the past few periods. Not saying he's getting worse, just that maybe he reached his potential a little sooner than other guys and the field is catching up....kinda happens when you're a 6-9 freshman in high school. I still like his game, and he is much more a post than a stretch 4, which is something we can certainly use, and it would be really cool to see Cage on the back of another SDSU jersey, but his commitment is not as critical to the program as it once was.
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Post by standiego on Jun 1, 2015 8:37:40 GMT -8
Guess , same as you are guessing . But we could look at production. That Williams production is college basketball is better then Max 's . Williams was a starter for his SEC team , had both points and boards - he scored and rebounded ,lead his team in both categories.. Max your shooter made 10 threes in about 30 games ,1 every three games , he was a reserve player #10 on the IU squad and was heading down as they brought in even better players for 2015 , read the evaluation of the 2015 IU team. When you look at all the transfers that were available, and there were a lot of them, do you think Max is one of the top 10 ? . Is he a starter for 2016 ? If we can sign Narain , our next concern is signing some one to replace Spencer /Chol . It sure seems to me that it is more difficult for the Aztecs to find some one to play the 5/C position , that Williams does, then add a potential SF - there are numerous SF's out there ,either 2016 HS or grad transfer for 2016. The only other school actively recruiting Max was Rice . What production are you saying there is for Max other then the same mixed clip showing him making the 10 threes in 30 games , a good portion of them in their OOC games . His best game was their first OOC game , then his production really dropped off .He never scored more then 10 points after that .
In basic I hope the Aztecs have progressed further and should be able to land better transfers . At least stay even with Gonzaga if we want to get to their level or higher . You do that by getting better players . So with all the transfers that were out there believe we could have done better .
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Post by gigglyforshrigley on Jun 1, 2015 8:51:10 GMT -8
Shooters dont usually have great stats, and their production on 1 team can be completely different than on another team... it all depends how they're utilized. Indiana probably didn't need him the way we need a knockdown shooter. I've never seen him play in person but on film he looks like he has a silky stroke, which we definitely could use. Plus at least in his high school film it looks like his skills aren't strictly limited to shooting. He might be a better scorer than anticipated
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Post by sdcoug on Jun 1, 2015 8:55:42 GMT -8
Guess , same as you are guessing . But we could look at production. That Williams production is college basketball is better then Max 's . Williams was a starter for his SEC team , had both points and boards - he scored and rebounded ,lead his team in both categories.. Max your shooter made 10 threes in about 30 games ,1 every three games , he was a reserve player #10 on the IU squad and was heading down as they brought in even better players for 2015 , read the evaluation of the 2015 IU team. When you look at all the transfers that were available, and there were a lot of them, do you think Max is one of the top 10 ? . Is he a starter for 2016 ? If we can sign Narain , our next concern is signing some one to replace Spencer /Chol . It sure seems to me that it is more difficult for the Aztecs to find some one to play the 5/C position , that Williams does, then add a potential SF - there are numerous SF's out there ,either 2016 HS or grad transfer for 2016. The only other school actively recruiting Max was Rice . What production are you saying there is for Max other then the same mixed clip showing him making the 10 threes in 30 games , a good portion of them in their OOC games . His best game was their first OOC game , then his production really dropped off .He never scored more then 10 points after that . In basic I hope the Aztecs have progressed further and should be able to land better transfers . At least stay even with Gonzaga if we want to get to their level or higher . You do that by getting better players . So with all the transfers that were out there believe we could have done better . I'll never understand why you are so anti-Max.
For one, Indiana is going to be a top 15 teams & the two guys he's playing behind are stars who are going to get 30+ minutes a game. If he'd prefer to transfer closer to home & have a chance to get more PT while also RS & working on his frame, that's his call. Good for him; lucky for us. You don't think Indy would LOVE to have him on their roster right now, given they booted players? And yes, he CAN shoot & has proven he's an excellent shooter. He's been identified as such at the national level via shooting contests, as well as having proven it in college in game situations & even in tight, key games.
Williams - again, just answer the question. Have you actually WATCHED Williams play, or are you drawing conclusions based on stats, rankings and highlight reals? I've watched Missou play 5 times - full games. Know a kid who plays for them. Williams scored because he played on a LOUSY undisciplined Missou team that was loaded with FR & SO, many of whom were suspended throughout the year and/or left after the season, and he was the best of the bunch. He scored by default. To put it simply - had Max been on THAT Missou team HE would have scored in double figures as a FR, never mind as a SO. Whether William's success transfers over to Gonzaga is still TBD. With a year off, and with more discipline within Few's system & practicing against much better players he might. But he definitely wasn't someone you looked at & said "we need him". Could we have used him? Sure - teams always want size, and again with discipline & good coaching that size could fill a role.
Just like Max can fill a role.
Aaron, Williams & Hoetzel - all are talented players who may or may not work out for their new teams.
But to fret about missing out on 2 kids - ridiculous, given everything we have on this roster.
If 2016 ends up being a horrible recruiting year, THEN worry about it. But right now everything is good, our recruiting has been solid & we landed a solid transfer & early 2016 recruit, and we're opening the JAM center.
No reason to freak out over not getting 2 guys who may not even pan out.
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Post by standiego on Jun 2, 2015 8:50:20 GMT -8
The goal should be SW16 or Better at this stage for the SDSU basketball program . Bringing in quality talent that can start , not just role players at this stage , plus possibly using our last scholarship . We have problems signing Centers Williams ,could have been an option for 2016 . Williams averaged 12 points and 8 rebounds last year , while playing on a poor team in the SEC against Kentucky , Florida , Arkansas ... He was good enough for Gonzaga . Think his stats say enough . Kansas just added a transfer center today . Florida Center is now looking at Washington and CAL . Do we have a scholarship available. We lose most of the front line both centers and both forwards starting forwards , so we are going to reload quickly with starters not role players . We do not need shooters ever player can shoot the ball , but not every player Scores the Basketball . During the last 13 games of BIG conference play Max only scored in only 1 game. He never made more then 6 points other then their first X Game . He scored 21 points during the Whole BIG conference season . Have nothing against Max just feel that for ALL the transfers we could have landed it was Max . Read the write up about IU for 2015 they brought in better players then they lost , they were up to 15 scholarships( you only get 13-some one had to go) He would not have gotten much PT this year . The only other team that was still recruiting him was Rice , not top 25 team . Have nothing against Max just feel the team could have gotten a better transfer . We only get 13 scholarships for 2015 and his means one less for 2016 . Only saw Williams play in a couple of games but he Averaged 12 and 8 in P5 play . Can you honestly say Max was a top 10 or 15 transfer and not believe we could have done better ? What production can you show for him ? How do you explain not scoring in 11 games . Only 21 for the BIG season , is that 1.5 points per game. Never scoring more then 6 other then an X game. 2016 may seem way off but , we lose a lot after 2015 and may really need to land some major recruits for 2016 to be a SW16 or better , that should be the goal . Think we need quality players first .
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Post by gigglyforshrigley on Jun 2, 2015 8:59:26 GMT -8
The goal should be SW16 or Better at this stage for the SDSU basketball program . Bringing in quality talent that can start , not just role players at this stage , plus possibly using our last scholarship . We have problems signing Centers Williams ,could have been an option for 2016 . Williams averaged 12 points and 8 rebounds last year , while playing on a poor team in the SEC against Kentucky , Florida , Arkansas ... He was good enough for Gonzaga . Think his stats say enough . Kansas just added a transfer center today . Florida Center is now looking at Washington and CAL . Do we have a scholarship available. We lose most of the front line both centers and both forwards starting forwards , so we are going to reload quickly with starters not role players . We do not need shooters ever player can shoot the ball , but not every player Scores the Basketball . During the last 13 games of BIG conference play Max only scored in only 1 game. He never made more then 6 points other then their first X Game . He scored 21 points during the Whole BIG conference season . Have nothing against Max just feel that for ALL the transfers we could have landed it was Max . Read the write up about IU for 2015 they brought in better players then they lost , they were up to 15 scholarships( you only get 13-some one had to go) He would not have gotten much PT this year . The only other team that was still recruiting him was Rice , not top 25 team . Have nothing against Max just feel the team could have gotten a better transfer . We only get 13 scholarships for 2015 and his means one less for 2016 . Only saw Williams play in a couple of games but he Averaged 12 and 8 in P5 play . Can you honestly say Max was a top 10 or 15 transfer and not believe we could have done better ? What production can you show for him ? How do you explain not scoring in 11 games . Only 21 for the BIG season , is that 1.5 points per game. Never scoring more then 6 other then an X game. 2016 may seem way off but , we lose a lot after 2015 and may really need to land some major recruits for 2016 to be a SW16 or better , that should be the goal . Think we need quality players first . Are you kidding me?
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Post by sdcoug on Jun 2, 2015 9:49:44 GMT -8
The goal should be SW16 or Better at this stage for the SDSU basketball program . Bringing in quality talent that can start , not just role players at this stage , plus possibly using our last scholarship . We have problems signing Centers Williams ,could have been an option for 2016 . Williams averaged 12 points and 8 rebounds last year , while playing on a poor team in the SEC against Kentucky , Florida , Arkansas ... He was good enough for Gonzaga . Think his stats say enough . Kansas just added a transfer center today . Florida Center is now looking at Washington and CAL . Do we have a scholarship available. We lose most of the front line both centers and both forwards starting forwards , so we are going to reload quickly with starters not role players . We do not need shooters ever player can shoot the ball , but not every player Scores the Basketball . During the last 13 games of BIG conference play Max only scored in only 1 game. He never made more then 6 points other then their first X Game . He scored 21 points during the Whole BIG conference season . Have nothing against Max just feel that for ALL the transfers we could have landed it was Max . Read the write up about IU for 2015 they brought in better players then they lost , they were up to 15 scholarships( you only get 13-some one had to go) He would not have gotten much PT this year . The only other team that was still recruiting him was Rice , not top 25 team . Have nothing against Max just feel the team could have gotten a better transfer . We only get 13 scholarships for 2015 and his means one less for 2016 . Only saw Williams play in a couple of games but he Averaged 12 and 8 in P5 play . Can you honestly say Max was a top 10 or 15 transfer and not believe we could have done better ? What production can you show for him ? How do you explain not scoring in 11 games . Only 21 for the BIG season , is that 1.5 points per game. Never scoring more then 6 other then an X game. 2016 may seem way off but , we lose a lot after 2015 and may really need to land some major recruits for 2016 to be a SW16 or better , that should be the goal . Think we need quality players first . Wow, where to begin? If you've actually watched Williams - which I really doubt based on your comments - then you'd actually understand WHY he averaged 12 & 8. He was the tallest guy on the floor for Missouri most of the time - they played 4 guards often. He could have been a complete STIFF & got 6-7 boards. It was a BAD TEAM and by default he got stats. Plus, he was a SOPH!
Max was a FROSH on a GOOD team, and played behind a GREAT player & their team was only going to get BETTER, as were the guys he played behind. Why not seek greener pastures in that situation, especially if you know you can play at this level?
Big's are ALWAYS in demand when teams have open roster spots. ALWAYS. So yes, Zags would want William, especially knowing he has a RS year to actually develop. AS DOES MAX!!!!
Williams currently is not a passer (black hole at times) & not a shot blocker & has a TS% under 48% despite his size & often having a speed advantage against slower big guys. He had stats via natural selection.
Max was a FRESHMEN, and one with a lot of upside and room to grow into his body. He PLAYED for a very good team. The fact he played for Indy as a FR should be enough to validate his talent alone. The Maryland game shows his upside.
Not saying Williams isn't a talent; just saying comparing stats isn't relevant. 2 completely different situations. Again, put Max on Missouri & he's generating stats, even as a Frosh. No matter how you slice it, Max is a much better shooter & probably the BEST shooter we could have gone after (or Tollefson) this off-season. WE NEED SHOOTERS because shooters DO SCORE!
It's OK to actually be complementary of BOTH players. It's actually OK to look beyond their HS rating. We're not going to have a team with Duke-level recruits. What gets us to the next level is having an experienced team that is well rounded and excels defensively. 3-4 star, non "top 100" talent can get you there, yet we still have our fair share of elite talent already.
The goal is to put the best team on the floor, with the emphasis on TEAM. That includes various roles - ball handling, penetration, rebounding, SHOOTING, passing, defense, INTELLIGENCE, etc. Max fits the bill on many fronts, at least potentially, which is all we have with all these guys changing teams.
Don't disagree - we need bigs, just like EVERYONE needs bigs. But it's JUNE; last I checked 2016 recruiting is a long ways from being wrapped, and probably won't be until next March/April or even May/June with transfers.
How about letting it play out, or actually seeing how Max fits in on this team before slicing & dicing him & labeling him before he sees the court?
PS. BTW, since you're so hung up on stats and "production" please explain your love affair with Aaron after his FR year??? It's so obvious it's not about production with you - it's about ratings received playing AAU & HS ball.
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Post by The Honey Badger on Jun 2, 2015 10:20:20 GMT -8
WE NEED SHOOTERS because shooters DO SCORE!
How about letting it play out, or actually seeing how Max fits in on this team before slicing & dicing him & labeling him before he sees the court?
How about no. To compete at the highest level we need ATHLETES that can also shoot. There was absolutely no need to get a guy that can't create his shot or defend and that is gonna get ragdolled when a game gets physical. Best case scenario he sees the court same way Steve Sir or Medhi Cheriot did in mop up time. It's sad to see others schools get talented transfers while we end up with the stiff guy that no one else wanted.
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Post by sdcoug on Jun 2, 2015 10:37:43 GMT -8
WE NEED SHOOTERS because shooters DO SCORE!
How about letting it play out, or actually seeing how Max fits in on this team before slicing & dicing him & labeling him before he sees the court?
How about no. To compete at the highest level we need ATHLETES that can also shoot. There was absolutely no need to get a guy that can't create his shot or defend and that is gonna get ragdolled when a game gets physical. Best case scenario he sees the court same way Steve Sir or Medhi Cheriot did in mop up time. It's sad to see others schools get talented transfers while we end up with the stiff guy that no one else wanted. Always good to hear from the resident racist. Such meaningful insights <sarcasm>.
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Post by standiego on Jun 2, 2015 14:08:55 GMT -8
If we want to be able to be a SW16 or really closer to E8 . Then we need high quality players . Guess I am spoiled and want quality over quantity and role players . IMO and other schools , such as Gonzaga-who seem to know something about recruiting centers , Williams is a quality player . Not my opinion Gonzaga's We need guys that want to play center. Yes he actually played against Kentucky and others . Has production to prove it what else would you go by ?. Please expound on Max's scoring ability and that is what you say he is . During the 12 of 13 games of the BIG - SCORED ZERO, from a great shooter? Max was only being actively recruited by Rice , UNLV had signed a forward while Max was visiting here . Aztec coaches must have thought Aaron was an even better player if the brought him in after Max was here and said he would sign . Yes I do feel Aaron has more all around talent in every category then Max at both SF or SG , but USC signed him . Guess we can compare the production - in 2016 and the years that follow . Neither player performed well their freshman so we guess on future production. We all have opinions , IMO there were so many more quality transfers out there and the one we got was Max . I have nothing against him just think the coaches could have done better. You say we can wait on recruiting until March /April , the early signing time ends mid November . Recruits have been signing earlier this year then last year . Most of the work happens this spring summer ,into fall . Just hope we have a good 2016 recruiting class . We are going to need it . Hope you are right but seems to me the coaches could have signed a better player
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