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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Oct 18, 2010 6:05:36 GMT -8
The simple fact of the matter is that Public Schools should be banned in the United States. We should set up a voucher system with government funds so the parents can decide where and what they want their children's education to be.
Right now, it is unsafe for children to go to school with all of the violence in our inner cities. The moral climate is abysmal and unhealthy.
The quality of education has fallen from first place in the modern world to last place in the industrialized modern world. That is a massive failure. Time to discard a faulty system.
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Post by aztecwin on Oct 19, 2010 13:02:11 GMT -8
I would say that vouchers is something that would make the total cost of education go down. You still need public schools even if for no other reason that to take care of special needs kids. Getting rid of the Dept of Education would also be a huge plus since education can be handled much better and cheaper at the local level.
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Post by waztec on Oct 19, 2010 16:29:54 GMT -8
Oh, sweet Jesus.  |
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Post by aztec70 on Oct 19, 2010 21:34:26 GMT -8
I would say that vouchers is something that would make the total cost of education go down. You still need public schools even if for no other reason that to take care of special needs kids. Getting rid of the Dept of Education would also be a huge plus since education can be handled much better and cheaper at the local level. Please tell Erik that. He tells me different about pot sales.  Nice point about special needs students. Private schools could not make a profit teaching them. If you can't make a profit there is no point in doing it, right? It is good to know that at least one conservative is happy to pay taxes to educate those that private schools will not take. |
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Oct 20, 2010 8:34:37 GMT -8
I would say that vouchers is something that would make the total cost of education go down. You still need public schools even if for no other reason that to take care of special needs kids. Getting rid of the Dept of Education would also be a huge plus since education can be handled much better and cheaper at the local level. Please tell Erik that. He tells me different about pot sales. Nice point about special needs students. Private schools could not make a profit teaching them. If you can't make a profit there is no point in doing it, right? It is good to know that at least one conservative is happy to pay taxes to educate those that private schools will not take. +1 |
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Post by aztecwin on Oct 20, 2010 11:05:35 GMT -8
I would say that vouchers is something that would make the total cost of education go down. You still need public schools even if for no other reason that to take care of special needs kids. Getting rid of the Dept of Education would also be a huge plus since education can be handled much better and cheaper at the local level. Please tell Erik that. He tells me different about pot sales. Nice point about special needs students. Private schools could not make a profit teaching them. If you can't make a profit there is no point in doing it, right? It is good to know that at least one conservative is happy to pay taxes to educate those that private schools will not take. You lost me talking about pot sales unless you are saying that local regulation would be a zoo. Regulation at the state level would be fine just as some minimum state guidance to local school districts coupled with a voucer option would reduce overall cost and improve quality of education in my opinion. |
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Post by aztec70 on Oct 20, 2010 11:14:11 GMT -8
Please tell Erik that. He tells me different about pot sales. Nice point about special needs students. Private schools could not make a profit teaching them. If you can't make a profit there is no point in doing it, right? It is good to know that at least one conservative is happy to pay taxes to educate those that private schools will not take. You lost me talking about pot sales unless you are saying that local regulation would be a zoo. Regulation at the state level would be fine just as some minimum state guidance to local school districts coupled with a voucer option would reduce overall cost and improve quality of education in my opinion. I lost you at pot sales? Well, if you would quit stopping, and buying, you would not get lost. That $#!+ can cloud your mind, win.  |
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Post by aztecwin on Oct 20, 2010 15:28:33 GMT -8
You lost me talking about pot sales unless you are saying that local regulation would be a zoo. Regulation at the state level would be fine just as some minimum state guidance to local school districts coupled with a voucher option would reduce overall cost and improve quality of education in my opinion. I lost you at pot sales? Well, if you would quit stopping, and buying, you would not get lost. That $#!+ can cloud your mind, win. I don't really have a point of reference, but will take your word for it. Beer and Margaritas, however are another story. |
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Post by JOCAZTEC on Oct 21, 2010 6:34:44 GMT -8
I pay $300 per year of my property taxes to fund the Huntington Beach City employees pension plan. How the hcal did this UC'ing thing happen?
(this part of this post has been edited for the Pac-fudge fans' sensitivity...)
HAM
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Post by aztec70 on Oct 21, 2010 9:06:17 GMT -8
I lost you at pot sales? Well, if you would quit stopping, and buying, you would not get lost. That $#!+ can cloud your mind, win. I don't really have a point of reference, but will take your word for it. Beer and Margaritas, however are another story. I learned all about it watching Cheech and Chong movies. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Oct 21, 2010 11:04:46 GMT -8
How did we get from voucher schools to Cheech and Chong?  That's quite a leap. Well, education is something I know about since I actually went to school. For nearly 20 years! (I just couldn't seem to get the hang of it! ;D) But, speaking seriously, I am a teacher of 37 years standing . . . by now I am barely standing, though. Thirty years full-time and now I'm in my eighth year of substituting. Could we get along without public schools? No chance. Not now that we have been dependent on them for well over a century. But public schools have to change if we are to improve the level of student achievement. Right now that level is meidocre at best. Just what changes are necessary is very, very hard to say. Here's another factor that many in the community will not want to hear. Society must change, as well. There is very little even the best teacher can do with 35 unruly, disruptive kids who have no self-discipline and who have a sincere desire to make the teacher's life miserable. (Actually, it only takes a couple of bad kids to do that. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about.) Unless society values education enough to require their children to behave well in class, no amount of change on the part of the school is going to help. Asian parents obviously instill in their children a strong pro-education ethic. I remember the one year I taught at what might be considered a "difficult" inner-city school. It was El Monte H.S. Well, El Monte is not exactly inner-city; it's in the San Gabriel Valley just east of downtown L.A. When I was there (the 1990-91 school year) the students were about 83% Hispanic and 13% Asian (few Anglos). I took an apartment in the area while my wife stayed at our home in Mira Mesa. I would spend the weekend with her and drive to El Monte very early Monday mornings. When I got the school, it was quite a bit before the first class began. In fact, the lights in the halls (this was an older two story building with indoor access) were barely on. Huddled against the walls were little groups of Asian students busily studying. At lunch the Hispanic kids were socializing and wandering around. Meanwhile, the Asian kids were in little study circles in the cafeteria. Until society changes so that kids of all ethnicities show the most positive attitudes toward school, we will not see the kind of overall improvement we desire. AzWm |
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Post by aztec70 on Oct 21, 2010 13:23:12 GMT -8
I get the impression, William, that you work in public schools. Is that so? I would have thought that as a libertarian that would have been very painful for you.
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Oct 21, 2010 13:59:31 GMT -8
What needs to change is the belief that every kid should be ready for and go to college. With the elimination of most, if not all, of the "shop" classes there are no other alternatives for the 70% who won't be going to college.
In many European and Asian systems there are two tracks. One for kids going to college the other for training in the "Trades".
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Post by aztecwin on Oct 21, 2010 14:41:21 GMT -8
What needs to change is the belief that every kid should be ready for and go to college. With the elimination of most, if not all, of the "shop" classes there are no other alternatives for the 70% who won't be going to college. In many European and Asian systems there are two tracks. One for kids going to college the other for training in the "Trades". I agree with your point. How would we pay for it? I suggest we could make another good case for vouchers that could be used in schools that we heavy into vocational classes and/or programs among other things. |
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Post by ptsdthor on Oct 21, 2010 20:33:19 GMT -8
We Need to BAN public schools and go to Vouchers But if we give "vouchers" to be applied toward private schools, don't those private schools then become public schools since public funds are being devoted to them? The GI bill was a benefit given to the individual and it was for them to spend as they pleased, so long as it was for a reasonable education. It didn't forbid them from going to private schools or private ecumenical schools and none were the the worst for it. Same with vouchers. The voucher goes to the individual, not the school. |
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Oct 22, 2010 7:36:40 GMT -8
What needs to change is the belief that every kid should be ready for and go to college. With the elimination of most, if not all, of the "shop" classes there are no other alternatives for the 70% who won't be going to college. In many European and Asian systems there are two tracks. One for kids going to college the other for training in the "Trades". I agree with your point. How would we pay for it? I suggest we could make another good case for vouchers that could be used in schools that we heavy into vocational classes and/or programs among other things. I don't have a problem with vouchers as long as the private schools follow the same rules as the public. They must not restrict admission based upon race, creed, color, religion, physical / defect, or sexual preference. That means they must admit kids with "special needs" and gays. |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Oct 22, 2010 8:37:24 GMT -8
We Need to BAN public schools and go to Vouchers But if we give "vouchers" to be applied toward private schools, don't those private schools then become public schools since public funds are being devoted to them? No, they remain private schools. Parents are free to chose which school their kids go to. In Europe children are able to move on to the next grade if they pass the proficiency test for the grade they are in. If they do not score high enough, there are no social promotions. With a system like that in the US, Parents will be proactive in their kids' education and once faced with the reality that their little darling is stupid, will enroll him or her in a trade school as appropriate. I have been suggesting that for years. In previous posts I have addressed the issue of special needs children. They will always be taken care of by the state. There is no other recourse. Hitler just exterminated them. I am certain that modern state governments will effect other solutions that are not as brash. |
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Post by aztecwin on Oct 22, 2010 9:08:30 GMT -8
We Need to BAN public schools and go to Vouchers But if we give "vouchers" to be applied toward private schools, don't those private schools then become public schools since public funds are being devoted to them? No. |
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Post by aztecwin on Oct 22, 2010 9:10:18 GMT -8
I agree with your point. How would we pay for it? I suggest we could make another good case for vouchers that could be used in schools that we heavy into vocational classes and/or programs among other things. I don't have a problem with vouchers as long as the private schools follow the same rules as the public. They must not restrict admission based upon race, creed, color, religion, physical / defect, or sexual preference. That means they must admit kids with "special needs" and gays. That has been discussed before and you are really dense if you do not get it. |
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Post by sdtosf on Oct 22, 2010 21:23:31 GMT -8
So why do you want to get rid of San Diego State University? |
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That's quite a leap.