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Post by aardvark on Feb 17, 2015 12:23:06 GMT -8
Chargers aren't leaving. There will be a new downtown stadium/convention center expansion SDSU will be playing in a downtown stadium within the decade. I'm surprised the smart folks that frequent this forum can't recognize political theater when they see it. As long as the port and the convention center board are against it, it won't happen.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 13:50:36 GMT -8
Chargers aren't leaving. There will be a new downtown stadium/convention center expansion SDSU will be playing in a downtown stadium within the decade. I'm surprised the smart folks that frequent this forum can't recognize political theater when they see it. As long as the port and the convention center board are against it, it won't happen. Political theater folks. Con/vis has already taken their shot at securing dollars for their plan and lost, big time. The mayor at the same time he established the commission to find ways to fund a new stadium also appointed Cushman to find ways to secure funding for the contiguous center even though it was Cushman that authored the original TOT attempt. So unless Cushman has had some sort of epiphany on a way to secure 2/3rds as a stand-alone or has figured a way to do his expansion with private money, he and by extension the Con/vis and Port are in a box. The only way OUT of said box is to play nice and "compromise" on a plan that gets them some of what they want. But as I said, it's all show meant to position the ultimate solution as a compromise, authored by our politicians that secures something for everyone at minimal cost to the citizens. The shape of what is to come has already been decided. Politicians get political capital for "getting things done" at minimal cost to the taxpayer Unions get a Billion dollar public works project that will pay prevailing wage to their members minority communities will get preference on concessions/services ( See Todd Gloria and David Alvarez and what they are saying) Chargers and their backers will get a new stadium - they'll probably have to up their contribution ever so slightly or "compromise" on some sort of give back like the aforementioned concessions/services. Con/vis gets an expansion- non-contiguous which was and remains TOTAL BULLCRAP...and they know it, but an expansion nonetheless. Opposition? Grumpy old NIMBY's and political gadfly's with no financial backing who, by the time it hits the ballot will be fully marginalized. Think of it as a TV mystery. The only one who doesn't know the scripted outcome is the viewer.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 14:01:31 GMT -8
I just want to state for the record that IMO, the Chargers are also in a box and I think they know it. Kroenke put them there just like he's boxing out AEG. Up in LA, it's going to get real ugly before anything gets done, if it ever gets done. Already, rumblings of shenanigans by the Inglewood mayor are percolating. The downtown LA boys aren't going to sit back and let Stan and Inglewood eat their lunch.
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Post by SD Johnny on Feb 17, 2015 14:20:16 GMT -8
As long as the port and the convention center board are against it, it won't happen. Political theater folks. Con/vis has already taken their shot at securing dollars for their plan and lost, big time. The mayor at the same time he established the commission to find ways to fund a new stadium also appointed Cushman to find ways to secure funding for the contiguous center even though it was Cushman that authored the original TOT attempt. So unless Cushman has had some sort of epiphany on a way to secure 2/3rds as a stand-alone or has figured a way to do his expansion with private money, he and by extension the Con/vis and Port are in a box. The only way OUT of said box is to play nice and "compromise" on a plan that gets them some of what they want. But as I said, it's all show meant to position the ultimate solution as a compromise, authored by our politicians that secures something for everyone at minimal cost to the citizens. The shape of what is to come has already been decided. Politicians get political capital for "getting things done" at minimal cost to the taxpayer Unions get a Billion dollar public works project that will pay prevailing wage to their members minority communities will get preference on concessions/services ( See Todd Gloria and David Alvarez and what they are saying) Chargers and their backers will get a new stadium - they'll probably have to up their contribution ever so slightly or "compromise" on some sort of give back like the aforementioned concessions/services. Con/vis gets an expansion- non-contiguous which was and remains TOTAL BULLCRAP...and they know it, but an expansion nonetheless. Opposition? Grumpy old NIMBY's and political gadfly's with no financial backing who, by the time it hits the ballot will be fully marginalized. Think of it as a TV mystery. The only one who doesn't know the scripted outcome is the viewer. In your TV mystery does the owner make calculated business decisions or does he have a heart of gold and pass up $700 million in franchise value for the good of the people? Because that's what Spanos is deciding between when he considers LA versus SD. He can move to the larger market and watch his franchise value skyrocket or stay in San Diego and take a franchise hit once the Rams or whoever move to LA. By staying in SD he would also then be gambling a large part of his future franchise value on the November 2016 vote which IMO looks like a longshot at best. I don't know many billionaires but I have a hunch that they don't usually choose the less profitable and risky scenario. But this isn't real life its political theatre so hopefully we don't have to wait too long until we see who is right and who is wrong.
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Post by matteosandiego on Feb 17, 2015 14:38:55 GMT -8
As long as the port and the convention center board are against it, it won't happen. Political theater folks. Con/vis has already taken their shot at securing dollars for their plan and lost, big time. The mayor at the same time he established the commission to find ways to fund a new stadium also appointed Cushman to find ways to secure funding for the contiguous center even though it was Cushman that authored the original TOT attempt. So unless Cushman has had some sort of epiphany on a way to secure 2/3rds as a stand-alone or has figured a way to do his expansion with private money, he and by extension the Con/vis and Port are in a box. The only way OUT of said box is to play nice and "compromise" on a plan that gets them some of what they want. But as I said, it's all show meant to position the ultimate solution as a compromise, authored by our politicians that secures something for everyone at minimal cost to the citizens. The shape of what is to come has already been decided. Politicians get political capital for "getting things done" at minimal cost to the taxpayer Unions get a Billion dollar public works project that will pay prevailing wage to their members minority communities will get preference on concessions/services ( See Todd Gloria and David Alvarez and what they are saying) Chargers and their backers will get a new stadium - they'll probably have to up their contribution ever so slightly or "compromise" on some sort of give back like the aforementioned concessions/services. Con/vis gets an expansion- non-contiguous which was and remains TOTAL BULLCRAP...and they know it, but an expansion nonetheless. Opposition? Grumpy old NIMBY's and political gadfly's with no financial backing who, by the time it hits the ballot will be fully marginalized. Think of it as a TV mystery. The only one who doesn't know the scripted outcome is the viewer. Interesting take. i don't think Spanos has the stomach to handle the LA market. So they are playing hardball or appearing to play hardball with us in SD to get what they want. They absolutely want to stay here in town. Question for SDSU is wether playing in a new NFL caliber stadium downtown is better than putting their own shovel in the ground somewhere closer to campus. i could really see a downtown stadium doing really really cool things for SDSU gameday experiences. The college kids already love the gaslamp and this would potentially make gamedays a whole hell of a lot more of a social tradition when included with all the bars, clubs, pre & post game partying. But....who knows.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 14:39:16 GMT -8
Stan holds the cards, because he has 5x the money that Spanos does. So it may not just be what does Spanos want to do re: the value of his team, it may be what can he do when up against this sort of potential competition in the LA area.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 14:50:53 GMT -8
Political theater folks. Con/vis has already taken their shot at securing dollars for their plan and lost, big time. The mayor at the same time he established the commission to find ways to fund a new stadium also appointed Cushman to find ways to secure funding for the contiguous center even though it was Cushman that authored the original TOT attempt. So unless Cushman has had some sort of epiphany on a way to secure 2/3rds as a stand-alone or has figured a way to do his expansion with private money, he and by extension the Con/vis and Port are in a box. The only way OUT of said box is to play nice and "compromise" on a plan that gets them some of what they want. But as I said, it's all show meant to position the ultimate solution as a compromise, authored by our politicians that secures something for everyone at minimal cost to the citizens. The shape of what is to come has already been decided. Politicians get political capital for "getting things done" at minimal cost to the taxpayer Unions get a Billion dollar public works project that will pay prevailing wage to their members minority communities will get preference on concessions/services ( See Todd Gloria and David Alvarez and what they are saying) Chargers and their backers will get a new stadium - they'll probably have to up their contribution ever so slightly or "compromise" on some sort of give back like the aforementioned concessions/services. Con/vis gets an expansion- non-contiguous which was and remains TOTAL BULLCRAP...and they know it, but an expansion nonetheless. Opposition? Grumpy old NIMBY's and political gadfly's with no financial backing who, by the time it hits the ballot will be fully marginalized. Think of it as a TV mystery. The only one who doesn't know the scripted outcome is the viewer. Interesting take. i don't think Spanos has the stomach to handle the LA market. So they are playing hardball or appearing to play hardball with us in SD to get what they want. They absolutely want to stay here in town. Question for SDSU is wether playing in a new NFL caliber stadium downtown is better than putting their own shovel in the ground somewhere closer to campus. i could really see a downtown stadium doing really really cool things for SDSU gameday experiences. The college kids already love the gaslamp and this would potentially make gamedays a whole hell of a lot more of a social tradition when included with all the bars, clubs, pre & post game partying. But....who knows. The Chargers are posturing. For any plan to succeed, it cannot have a the Chargers fingerprints on it. They need to be perceived as being on the outside of the process. And I agree, Spanos loves SD. His kids I believe if not born here have lived their entire lives here. He has no stomach for LA. you and I seem to be the only two that think downtown can be special for SDSU. Everyone else wants to imitate the East coast Sis Boom Bah college town experience.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 14:51:18 GMT -8
Stan holds the cards, because he has 5x the money that Spanos does. So it may not just be what does Spanos want to do re: the value of his team, it may be what can he do when up against this sort of potential competition in the LA area. Nail-Head
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 14:57:53 GMT -8
I think we'll know in 2 months. If the Chargers are going to head north, it will be as the primary tenant at Farmers Field. AEG has until April to find a team. That will be the last chance for the Chargers to control their destiny in LA. The timing is bad but a bold owner with a strong desire to move will take the leap.
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Post by aardvark on Feb 17, 2015 15:45:50 GMT -8
Interesting take. i don't think Spanos has the stomach to handle the LA market. So they are playing hardball or appearing to play hardball with us in SD to get what they want. They absolutely want to stay here in town. Question for SDSU is wether playing in a new NFL caliber stadium downtown is better than putting their own shovel in the ground somewhere closer to campus. i could really see a downtown stadium doing really really cool things for SDSU gameday experiences. The college kids already love the gaslamp and this would potentially make gamedays a whole hell of a lot more of a social tradition when included with all the bars, clubs, pre & post game partying. But....who knows. The Chargers are posturing. For any plan to succeed, it cannot have a the Chargers fingerprints on it. They need to be perceived as being on the outside of the process. And I agree, Spanos loves SD. His kids I believe if not born here have lived their entire lives here. He has no stomach for LA. you and I seem to be the only two that think downtown can be special for SDSU. Everyone else wants to imitate the East coast Sis Boom Bah college town experience. Except the Charger's fingerprints ARE all over it. The only reason the Chargers even got involved with a combo CC/stadium is they know there isn't enough money for separate projects.
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Post by aardvark on Feb 17, 2015 15:47:19 GMT -8
I think we'll know in 2 months. If the Chargers are going to head north, it will be as the primary tenant at Farmers Field. AEG has until April to find a team. That will be the last chance for the Chargers to control their destiny in LA. The timing is bad but a bold owner with a strong desire to move will take the leap. Doesn't AEG still want a piece of any team playing in their proposed stadium? And do the Chargers still not want to give up any of the club?
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Post by rebar619 on Feb 17, 2015 15:50:55 GMT -8
I think we'll know in 2 months. If the Chargers are going to head north, it will be as the primary tenant at Farmers Field. AEG has until April to find a team. That will be the last chance for the Chargers to control their destiny in LA. The timing is bad but a bold owner with a strong desire to move will take the leap. I would guess that would be the Raiders long before the Chargers, but I could be wrong.
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Post by ab on Feb 17, 2015 15:59:41 GMT -8
There are those Aztec fans on the other thread about the Stadium Task Force, who firmly believe that State already has a plan to build an on-campus stadium. I for one doubt it as I don't think they've got $$$ earmarked for it. Same for taking over the Q spot, where's the $$ coming from? Unless Hirschman or Sterk come out with a statement that we (Aztec fans) shouldn't worry, then I won't believe they've got a tangible plan.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 16:02:39 GMT -8
I think we'll know in 2 months. If the Chargers are going to head north, it will be as the primary tenant at Farmers Field. AEG has until April to find a team. That will be the last chance for the Chargers to control their destiny in LA. The timing is bad but a bold owner with a strong desire to move will take the leap. Doesn't AEG still want a piece of any team playing in their proposed stadium? And do the Chargers still not want to give up any of the club? yes
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 16:04:21 GMT -8
I think we'll know in 2 months. If the Chargers are going to head north, it will be as the primary tenant at Farmers Field. AEG has until April to find a team. That will be the last chance for the Chargers to control their destiny in LA. The timing is bad but a bold owner with a strong desire to move will take the leap. I would guess that would be the Raiders long before the Chargers, but I could be wrong. My guess too. But if the worst should happen, the task force should turn their attention to stealing the Raiders from Oakland. Color me Silver and Black if that happens.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 16:06:12 GMT -8
There are those Aztec fans on the other thread about the Stadium Task Force, who firmly believe that State already has a plan to build an on-campus stadium. I for one doubt it as I don't think they've got $$$ earmarked for it. Same for taking over the Q spot, where's the $$ coming from? Unless Hirschman or Sterk come out with a statement that we (Aztec fans) shouldn't worry, then I won't believe they've got a tangible plan. Takes me an hour to get out of a basketball game.
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Post by sleepy on Feb 17, 2015 16:07:23 GMT -8
I'm looking forward to the day when this thread title is a Daily Aztec headline.
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Post by matteosandiego on Feb 17, 2015 16:07:43 GMT -8
Interesting take. i don't think Spanos has the stomach to handle the LA market. So they are playing hardball or appearing to play hardball with us in SD to get what they want. They absolutely want to stay here in town. Question for SDSU is wether playing in a new NFL caliber stadium downtown is better than putting their own shovel in the ground somewhere closer to campus. i could really see a downtown stadium doing really really cool things for SDSU gameday experiences. The college kids already love the gaslamp and this would potentially make gamedays a whole hell of a lot more of a social tradition when included with all the bars, clubs, pre & post game partying. But....who knows. The Chargers are posturing. For any plan to succeed, it cannot have a the Chargers fingerprints on it. They need to be perceived as being on the outside of the process. And I agree, Spanos loves SD. His kids I believe if not born here have lived their entire lives here. He has no stomach for LA. you and I seem to be the only two that think downtown can be special for SDSU. Everyone else wants to imitate the East coast Sis Boom Bah college town experience. All the growth around SDSU campus in the JAM center, new student union, and not to mention what seems to be a lot of apartments and new student housing tells me that an on campus stadium is a possible reality. Building that college town experience is absolutely a priority these days. But not sure if that can fully be created with a football stadium and just the nature of the city itself. San Diego has qualities of a small town but is also very very much a professional city. There are advantages in going either way for SDSU (On campus stadium/sharing an NFL stadium downtown) But i could see SDSU playing downtown for a few years to track progress as a test before they evaluate wether its a pro or a con.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 16:15:56 GMT -8
The Chargers are posturing. For any plan to succeed, it cannot have a the Chargers fingerprints on it. They need to be perceived as being on the outside of the process. And I agree, Spanos loves SD. His kids I believe if not born here have lived their entire lives here. He has no stomach for LA. you and I seem to be the only two that think downtown can be special for SDSU. Everyone else wants to imitate the East coast Sis Boom Bah college town experience. All the growth around SDSU campus in the JAM center, new student union, and not to mention what seems to be a lot of apartments and new student housing tells me that an on campus stadium is a possible reality. Building that college town experience is absolutely a priority these days. But not sure if that can fully be created with a football stadium and just the nature of the city itself. San Diego has qualities of a small town but is also very very much a professional city. There are advantages in going either way for SDSU (On campus stadium/sharing an NFL stadium downtown) But i could see SDSU playing downtown for a few years to track progress as a test before they evaluate wether its a pro or a con. Its the growth that works against a possible OCS. Gonna need to find acreage and places to put roads. every building that goes up make it that much harder. not saying it can't be done. Just a lot harder than some think
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Post by SD Johnny on Feb 17, 2015 16:24:37 GMT -8
There are those Aztec fans on the other thread about the Stadium Task Force, who firmly believe that State already has a plan to build an on-campus stadium. I for one doubt it as I don't think they've got $$$ earmarked for it. Same for taking over the Q spot, where's the $$ coming from? Unless Hirschman or Sterk come out with a statement that we (Aztec fans) shouldn't worry, then I won't believe they've got a tangible plan. Why would the Aztecs stick their neck out at this time when the Chargers are looking for scapegoats? Fabiani is throwing anyone he can under the bus and would do the same if the Aztecs said to hell with the Chargers.
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