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Post by HighNTight on Oct 27, 2014 18:26:39 GMT -8
Let the arms race begin ... "SAN FRANCISCO -- The Pac-12 passed sweeping changes for athletes in all of the conference's sports Monday, guaranteeing four-year scholarships, improving health care benefits and liberalizing transfer rules. The changes announced by the Pac-12 presidents and chancellors include many of the same proposals outlined in a letter to university leaders in the five major football conferences in May. The conference also said its presidents and chancellors reaffirmed their support for stipends to cover the full cost of attendance. Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott has said that figure likely will range between $2,000 and $5,000 per athlete depending on the university. The 65 institutions in the five major football conferences -- granted autonomy by the NCAA earlier this year -- and 15 representative athletes will vote on the issue at the group's inaugural meeting in January." Read More at ESPN espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/11775571/pac-12-passes-athlete-reforms-including-guaranteed-4-year-scholarships
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Post by chris92065 on Oct 27, 2014 18:29:47 GMT -8
This is the beginning of the end. Athletes will eventually suffer from this.
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Post by soccer94 on Oct 27, 2014 18:36:32 GMT -8
Does anyone know if this will apply to San Diego State soccer as a PAC member?
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Post by chris92065 on Oct 27, 2014 19:47:08 GMT -8
This is the beginning of the end. Athletes will eventually suffer from this.
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Post by 94sdsu on Oct 27, 2014 20:03:27 GMT -8
I believe that although SDSU plays as a member of the PAC in soccer, they're not actually a member. Will be interesting though to find out if our soccer tries to keep up.
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Oct 28, 2014 8:47:12 GMT -8
I believe that although SDSU plays as a member of the PAC in soccer, they're not actually a member. Will be interesting though to find out if our soccer tries to keep up. The rules would have to apply to all student athletes not just those in a certain sport. Also, I wonder what "Athletes who transfer between Pac-12 universities will be able to receive athletic scholarships immediately "without restriction." actually means. Does that mean that they are eligible to play immediatley without sitting out a year? If so, this could impact OSU, WSU, and CU as they are the bottom feeders in the PAC.
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Post by danpatrick on Oct 28, 2014 9:20:55 GMT -8
This is the beginning of the end. Athletes will eventually suffer from this. How so?
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Oct 28, 2014 9:28:10 GMT -8
I believe that although SDSU plays as a member of the PAC in soccer, they're not actually a member. Will be interesting though to find out if our soccer tries to keep up. The rules would have to apply to all student athletes not just those in a certain sport. Also, I wonder what "Athletes who transfer between Pac-12 universities will be able to receive athletic scholarships immediately "without restriction." actually means. Does that mean that they are eligible to play immediatley without sitting out a year? If so, this could impact OSU, WSU, and CU as they are the bottom feeders in the PAC. Interesting note. 3-4 pac schools could actually end up as farm teams for the top tier pac schools and lose their play makers to the big cities & bright lights of LA & SF. Sounds kinda like the MWC reruiters that identify sleepers only to have them snapped up by the pac in the 11th hour..
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Post by standiego on Oct 28, 2014 9:43:42 GMT -8
This was put out there this Spring for a vote to come up in 2015 . As mentioned it states first of all transfers within the PAC 12 Conference - Not all conferences . Next as mentioned and on the PAC 12 website "Athletes who transfer will be able to receive athletic scholarship immediately without restriction - provided they are eligible .They get scholarship right away but does not define " without restriction" . Does it mean if they have to sit a year or not and if players from another conference can transfer IN without sitting a year .? As you noted, Interesting comments from someone at WSU ,one of the bottom schools in PAC,who could be first affected by the transfer rule. But if a player was deciding between WSU and SDSU , may go there so they could transfer to another PAC school.
Also says if a player leaves early they can use the scholarship later . So if a player after his sophomore year says he is leaving early for the NBA , does not hire a lawyer or agent , but does not get selected by the NBA can they return to school and play ?
Also they are going to give the athlete full insurance , do not know what happens currently and will set limits on the practice schedule .
Bottom line if it is passed by the PAC , it means MW schools will need to have similar rules , like it or not start preparing for it . If the numbers are up for viewership for the Networks and they foot the bills, then it is not going to destroy football only widen the divide between P5 and G5. Biggest concern and uproar will come to expand the playoffs from 4 to 8 .
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Post by SD Johnny on Oct 28, 2014 11:33:50 GMT -8
They aren't eligible to play right away, they are able to recieve financial aid right away.
From the Pac-12 website:
"(iv) Liberalizing Transfer Rules within the Conference. The CEOs approved elimination of the financial aid penalty of the intra-conference transfer rule. Effective immediately, a student-athlete who transfers between Pac-12 institutions can receive an athletic scholarship from the second school without restriction, provided he or she is otherwise eligible to receive the aid."
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Post by chris92065 on Oct 28, 2014 11:48:56 GMT -8
This is the beginning of the end. Athletes will eventually suffer from this. How so? People attending college events have been declining over the years and so has TV viewership. What made college athletics special to peod was the amateur status of the players. The feel of them playing for the love of the game or university will lose its luster as people began to see college athletes you got the highest bidder. To be fair, the money and greed has always need there for college and student, but it was kept in the back room and not publicized. I think the pac 12'is just legalizing what they have been doing for years. Returning to the question is schools will be forced to cut programs in order to financially stay afloat which ultimatelyimits the availability of sports forms college athelrlete to play in. I also think down the line the government will start considering this taxable income, be considered a job, workers compensation, and so on. In the end I see the universities ultimatley taking away scholarships as a whole and pay them a wage based on their importance to the university. The pay scale will not be equal. In 2025, the networks will negotiate a much smaller amount than what the are paying now as viewership continues to decline. If people want professional sports,than the watch the NFL Pga nhl NBA or whatever if they wanted to watch amateur sports they watched college athletics.'these steps are blurring those lines.
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Post by standiego on Oct 28, 2014 12:50:07 GMT -8
If the numbers are there for the Networks on viewers watching the games then it will only get bigger for P5 football and college football fans . Most P5 teams get 20-25 million dollars from TV money to use and even more when the championship expanded from 2 to 4 and likely 8 . ESPN will have a TV show, showing the rating by the committee for selecting the championship teams , want to guess how many people are watching ? or commenting about them later today .
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Post by vision on Oct 28, 2014 13:14:22 GMT -8
I believe that although SDSU plays as a member of the PAC in soccer, they're not actually a member. Will be interesting though to find out if our soccer tries to keep up. HAHA that is funny. There will be no KEEPING UP.
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Post by chris92065 on Oct 28, 2014 13:24:05 GMT -8
If the numbers are there for the Networks on viewers watching the games then it will only get bigger for P5 football and college football fans . Most P5 teams get 20-25 million dollars from TV money to use and even more when the championship expanded from 2 to 4 and likely 8 . ESPN will have a TV show, showing the rating by the committee for selecting the championship teams , want to guess how many people are watching ? or commenting about them later today . The operating budget of the athletic department for a school like Michigan is over a 100 million that's why its like over a 100 dollars a ticket to go to the big house and watch a game. Their attendance has drastically declined as the ticket prices got higher. the 20-25 million only puts a dent into the expenses.
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Post by sdcoug on Oct 28, 2014 13:35:40 GMT -8
This was put out there this Spring for a vote to come up in 2015 . As mentioned it states first of all transfers within the PAC 12 Conference - Not all conferences . Next as mentioned and on the PAC 12 website "Athletes who transfer will be able to receive athletic scholarship immediately without restriction - provided they are eligible .They get scholarship right away but does not define " without restriction" . Does it mean if they have to sit a year or not and if players from another conference can transfer IN without sitting a year .? As you noted, Interesting comments from someone at WSU ,one of the bottom schools in PAC,who could be first affected by the transfer rule. But if a player was deciding between WSU and SDSU , may go there so they could transfer to another PAC school. It doesn't change ANYTHING related to having the RS when you transfer schools. In the P12, if you transferred within conference before you not only had to RS but you could NOT receive a scholarship during the first year. Previously if someone wanted to go from USC to WSU they'd either a) have to pay their own fare during year 1 while they redshirted; or b) transfer to a JC/FCS for a year, then transfer back in conference. Even then, schools could have waived the requirement if they so chose; now the student athlete doesn't have to hope the school they're leaving waives that clause. So as the wording below identifies, all the new rule does is eliminate the fact they can't go on scholarship immediately. Nothing further. (iv) Liberalizing Transfer Rules within the Conference. The CEOs approved elimination of the financial aid penalty of the intra-conference transfer rule. Effective immediately, a student-athlete who transfers between Pac-12 institutions can receive an athletic scholarship from the second school without restriction, provided he or she is otherwise eligible to receive the aid. Re: Transfers, I think this actually HELPS schools like WSU, Colorado, OSU, etc. as much as it hurts them. There are plenty of kids on USC, UCLA, Oregon, etc. who are currently sitting (or just playing ST) & may continue to do so for another couple years who could play at a WSU/Colorado/OSU. So now instead of having to transfer further east if they want to stay in a P5 conference they can stay along the west coast. What the P12 is basically saying is that if you want to transfer we'd rather have you stay "within the family" than leave the conference. RS rules would apply no matter where they transfer, unless they go FCS. Sure, there may be guys who get good after at year at WSU & now are on the national radar, but are those the type of kids who would want to RS at ANY point in time anyway? Why go from being a big fish/small pond & knowing they'll start to going to USC where they'll have to battle for a position? Plus, since in football many RS their FR year anyway, few will want to transfer & RS again. In Hoops, yes, it could be a factor. Kids like Wesley, who wanted to make the NCAA dance, could have transferred WITHIN conference as a 5-year (eligible immediately) senior vs. bailing to Gonzaga; a kid like Lacy at WSU who was recruited under the radar & was very good after a couple years could have transferred to the UW, but he's not the type to sit out a year & RS either. Where it hurts the WSU's, OSU's & Utah's, is financially. Guaranteeing 4 years; paying for education after they leave - factors which increase scholarship financial requirements for schools which lag behind the rest of the conference (e.g. every football scholarship at USC is endowed compared to a fraction of those at WSU).
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Post by sdcoug on Oct 28, 2014 13:42:10 GMT -8
The rules would have to apply to all student athletes not just those in a certain sport. Also, I wonder what "Athletes who transfer between Pac-12 universities will be able to receive athletic scholarships immediately "without restriction." actually means. Does that mean that they are eligible to play immediatley without sitting out a year? If so, this could impact OSU, WSU, and CU as they are the bottom feeders in the PAC. Interesting note. 3-4 pac schools could actually end up as farm teams for the top tier pac schools and lose their play makers to the big cities & bright lights of LA & SF. Sounds kinda like the MWC reruiters that identify sleepers only to have them snapped up by the pac in the 11th hour.. Looking at it another way, all that 4-star talent sitting on benches at USC/UCLA/Oregon can now transfer to OSU's, WSU's, etc. & be on scholarship right away, while RS a year after transferring. I don't think it impacts hoops nearly as much as most of the better talent at the "lesser" schools will be the types who WANT to RS, even if the scholarship restriction is lifted. Football is questionable as well - many RS as FR to begin with, so having to RS 2 years typically isn't ideal, although it happens. WSU had a QB leave. He WANTED to go to ASU (hometown) BUT WSU wouldn't waive the scholarship restriction, and said he could only transfer to 4 or 5 fixed schools (those who recruited him PRIOR to WSU & were also out of conference). He's forced to RS again at Louisville, while on scholarship. Had this been passed LAST year he could have transferred to ASU & been on scholarship, and since QB's (like most linemen) don't play until their 3rd year anyway it really wouldn't have hurt him. So to put in perspective, kids like Heyward & Rodriquez - who left for more PT, could have transferred WITHIN the P12 with the same restrictions as transferring to SDSU IF they thought another P12 school would give them the same opportunities.
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Post by vision on Oct 28, 2014 15:10:07 GMT -8
being able to transfer and not sit, lets the cry babies who aren't getting the PT go wherever they want. Why not just make a good choice when you decide where to go to school out of high school in the first place? This is why SDSU only has freshman QB's if you don't start immediately you just leave. it's going to be anarchy. The non-P5 schools' players will just transfer when a spot opens at their position at a P5 school. Feeder system. It used to mean something when you decided on a college. Now, not so much.
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Oct 28, 2014 15:31:02 GMT -8
Interesting note. 3-4 pac schools could actually end up as farm teams for the top tier pac schools and lose their play makers to the big cities & bright lights of LA & SF. Sounds kinda like the MWC reruiters that identify sleepers only to have them snapped up by the pac in the 11th hour.. Looking at it another way, all that 4-star talent sitting on benches at USC/UCLA/Oregon can now transfer to OSU's, WSU's, etc. & be on scholarship right away, while RS a year after transferring. I don't think it impacts hoops nearly as much as most of the better talent at the "lesser" schools will be the types who WANT to RS, even if the scholarship restriction is lifted. Football is questionable as well - many RS as FR to begin with, so having to RS 2 years typically isn't ideal, although it happens. WSU had a QB leave. He WANTED to go to ASU (hometown) BUT WSU wouldn't waive the scholarship restriction, and said he could only transfer to 4 or 5 fixed schools (those who recruited him PRIOR to WSU & were also out of conference). He's forced to RS again at Louisville, while on scholarship. Had this been passed LAST year he could have transferred to ASU & been on scholarship, and since QB's (like most linemen) don't play until their 3rd year anyway it really wouldn't have hurt him. So to put in perspective, kids like Heyward & Rodriquez - who left for more PT, could have transferred WITHIN the P12 with the same restrictions as transferring to SDSU IF they thought another P12 school would give them the same opportunities. I didn't know that if a kid transferred within the conference they could not receive any financial aid from the school during their first year. Thanks. I stand corrected.
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Post by imtharealist on Oct 28, 2014 15:47:08 GMT -8
This is the beginning of the end. Athletes will eventually suffer from this. How so? Also if schools drop football because they cannot compete there are less scholarships available as a whole and women's scholarship will decline as they aren't needed to fulfill Title IX.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2014 20:37:02 GMT -8
People attending college events have been declining over the years and so has TV viewership. What made college athletics special to peod was the amateur status of the players. The feel of them playing for the love of the game or university will lose its luster as people began to see college athletes you got the highest bidder. To be fair, the money and greed has always need there for college and student, but it was kept in the back room and not publicized. I think the pac 12'is just legalizing what they have been doing for years. Returning to the question is schools will be forced to cut programs in order to financially stay afloat which ultimatelyimits the availability of sports forms college athelrlete to play in. I also think down the line the government will start considering this taxable income, be considered a job, workers compensation, and so on. In the end I see the universities ultimatley taking away scholarships as a whole and pay them a wage based on their importance to the university. The pay scale will not be equal. In 2025, the networks will negotiate a much smaller amount than what the are paying now as viewership continues to decline. If people want professional sports,than the watch the NFL Pga nhl NBA or whatever if they wanted to watch amateur sports they watched college athletics.'these steps are blurring those lines. The wolves are at the door as far as the P5 are concerned. The problem they are facing is that they have run a system that in ANY other context would be considered criminally exploitive. They managed to get away with it for years until the money got big enough to attract whores politicians and lawyers. They are now playing defense. Their sudden "concern" about the well being of their athletes is really nothing more than a cynical attempt to head off legislation and lawsuits they know are coming. It won't work. They'll be sued anyway and they'll lose and it won't matter to anyone except the accountants. Life, and college football will go on. The student athletes will be a little less exploited.
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