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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 27, 2010 10:19:04 GMT -8
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Post by uwaztec on Sept 27, 2010 12:27:13 GMT -8
Boring...know how much of this kind of thing I can cherry pick off the far Right web sites William (remember Clinton murdered Foster etc.)? The far Right against the far Left and nothing in between... that's what it has come down to these days... sad. I think a lot of us can be measured by who we hate most... the far Right or the far Left. I happen to hate the far Right more than I hate the far Left..mostly because of environmental battles over the years. Bu this kind of thing as a "hot button" of some kind is just too easy and predictable...and no one ever learns anything.
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Post by Steve A on Sept 27, 2010 14:04:28 GMT -8
What a stupid thread.
(well said, uwaztec)
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Sept 28, 2010 6:30:19 GMT -8
As previously stated William, it is all professional shtick. The purpose of the radio broadcast is to gain viewership. That is done by appealing to a segment of the viewers. He has his shtick and he is doing a good job for his own. Now, do you disagree with his position? Do you disagree strongly enough that you listen to the broadcasts? Guess what? He has you rooked in and you are now a viewer. It matters not that you kiss the radio or curse the radio. YOU are a viewer/listener. Not only are you a viewer, but you are trying to get others to be viewers, too. Boy is this guy doing a good job! |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 28, 2010 8:39:00 GMT -8
Joe, you make some good points. As for listening to this guy, no, I do not. As with most Lefty talk show hosts, his audience can probably be counted on one's fingers and toes. Anyway, I got wind of his tirade and then posted the link.
If anyone can post a link to a current right wing talk show host making similar statements, I would appreciate it. (Michael Savage is the only one that I can think of, although I can't remember even him getting as vitriolic and hateful as the guy I reference in this thread. Furthermore, Savage is sort of off on his own planet; I don't consider him a conservative.)
I maintain that, certainly in the last few years, there has been much more hatefulness on the Left than on the Right. Those who oppose "progressive" goals are not just wrong or foolish, but mean-spirited if not downright evil. For the Left, in particular the Far Left, there is no such thing as a well-intentioned opponent of "progressivism." Such opponents are to be shunned and, whenever possible, destroyed personally.
That definitely was not the attitude of the 1950s and 1960s Liberals. Those old-time Liberals (who are not to be confused with l9Th Century liberals.) may have been condescending toward conservatives, but they did not see their political opponents as beneath contempt.
As bitter as political debates sometimes were in the past, I am sad to say that the divide between the two major parties is currently worse than ever. Much worse. Furthermore, I can't see that situation changing for the better anytime soon.
(With respect to the preceding gloomy assertion, I think that Barack Obama has wasted an opportunity to make some progress toward uniting the country. It's clear that he had no real desire whatsoever to compromise with Republicans in any meaningful way during the deliberations that lead to widely unpopular legislation. More and more people are paying attention to how laws are shaped and passed, and they do not like what they see.
The Left has tried to demonize the Tea Partiers, but it's clear that the latter are reacting negatively to the "business as usual," "go along to get along" practices that have plagued the federal government for so long. And note that the dissatisfaction with SOP in Washington is not just toward Democrats. GOP hacks have been targeted as well.
The President could have insisted that he would sign no bill into law until every member had had time to read a bill's language before voting. He would have been widely praised had he done that. Instead, it was Chicago politics as usual for the One who was supposed to heal our nation's wounds and make the oceans recede.)
AzWm
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Post by uwaztec on Sept 28, 2010 9:09:49 GMT -8
Joe, you make some good points. As for listening to this guy, no, I do not. As with most Lefty talk show hosts, his audience can probably be counted on one's fingers and toes. Anyway, I got wind of his tirade and then posted the link. If anyone can post a link to a current right wing talk show host making similar statements, I would appreciate it. (Michael Savage is the only one that I can think of, although I can't remember even him getting as vitriolic and hateful as the guy I reference in this thread. Furthermore, Savage is sort of off on his own planet; I don't consider him a conservative.) I maintain that, certainly in the last few years, there has been much more hatefulness on the Left than on the Right. Those who oppose "progressive" goals are not just wrong or foolish, but mean-spirited if not downright evil. For the Left, in particular the Far Left, there is no such thing as a well-intentioned opponent of "progressivism." Such opponents are to be shunned and, whenever possible, destroyed personally. That definitely was not the attitude of the 1950s and 1960s Liberals. Those old-time Liberals (who are not to be confused with l9Th Century liberals.) may have been condescending toward conservatives, but they did not see their political opponents as beneath contempt. As bitter as political debates sometimes were in the past, I am sad to say that the divide between the two major parties is currently worse than ever. Much worse. Furthermore, I can't see that situation changing for the better anytime soon. (With respect to the preceding gloomy assertion, I think that Barack Obama has wasted an opportunity to make some progress toward uniting the country. It's clear that he had no real desire whatsoever to compromise with Republicans in any meaningful way during the deliberations that lead to widely unpopular legislation. More and more people are paying attention to how laws are shaped and passed, and they do not like what they see. The Left has tried to demonize the Tea Partiers, but it's clear that the latter are reacting negatively to the "business as usual," "go along to get along" practices that have plagued the federal government for so long. And note that the dissatisfaction with SOP in Washington is not just toward Democrats. GOP hacks have been targeted as well. The President could have insisted that he would sign no bill into law until every member had had time to read a bill's language before voting. He would have been widely praised had he done that. Instead, it was Chicago politics as usual for the One who was supposed to heal our nation's wounds and make the oceans recede.) AzWm Geez..the far Left is more hateful than the far Right....blah blah blah. William... you hate the far Left more than you hate the far Right. Your focus is there and you will find media clips, sound bites that support your world view. I hate the far Right more than I hate the far Left, so I can find media clips, sound bites that support my world view. America is so divided, politicians used to work together so well........ geez, give me a break. When Hannity, Limbaugh, Coulter etc. create a world with only two world views..."Conservatives" and "Liberals" the people in between who lean in either direction depending on the issue get insulted and trashed depending on the topic. The way the Right is heading now, with only "true believers" allowed... how do you think that is going to pull America together??? |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 28, 2010 10:54:40 GMT -8
Joe, you make some good points. As for listening to this guy, no, I do not. As with most Lefty talk show hosts, his audience can probably be counted on one's fingers and toes. Anyway, I got wind of his tirade and then posted the link. If anyone can post a link to a current right wing talk show host making similar statements, I would appreciate it. (Michael Savage is the only one that I can think of, although I can't remember even him getting as vitriolic and hateful as the guy I reference in this thread. Furthermore, Savage is sort of off on his own planet; I don't consider him a conservative.) I maintain that, certainly in the last few years, there has been much more hatefulness on the Left than on the Right. Those who oppose "progressive" goals are not just wrong or foolish, but mean-spirited if not downright evil. For the Left, in particular the Far Left, there is no such thing as a well-intentioned opponent of "progressivism." Such opponents are to be shunned and, whenever possible, destroyed personally. That definitely was not the attitude of the 1950s and 1960s Liberals. Those old-time Liberals (who are not to be confused with l9Th Century liberals.) may have been condescending toward conservatives, but they did not see their political opponents as beneath contempt. As bitter as political debates sometimes were in the past, I am sad to say that the divide between the two major parties is currently worse than ever. Much worse. Furthermore, I can't see that situation changing for the better anytime soon. (With respect to the preceding gloomy assertion, I think that Barack Obama has wasted an opportunity to make some progress toward uniting the country. It's clear that he had no real desire whatsoever to compromise with Republicans in any meaningful way during the deliberations that lead to widely unpopular legislation. More and more people are paying attention to how laws are shaped and passed, and they do not like what they see. The Left has tried to demonize the Tea Partiers, but it's clear that the latter are reacting negatively to the "business as usual," "go along to get along" practices that have plagued the federal government for so long. And note that the dissatisfaction with SOP in Washington is not just toward Democrats. GOP hacks have been targeted as well. The President could have insisted that he would sign no bill into law until every member had had time to read a bill's language before voting. He would have been widely praised had he done that. Instead, it was Chicago politics as usual for the One who was supposed to heal our nation's wounds and make the oceans recede.) AzWm Geez..the far Left is more hateful than the far Right....blah blah blah. William... you hate the far Left more than you hate the far Right. Your focus is there and you will find media clips, sound bites that support your world view. I hate the far Right more than I hate the far Left, so I can find media clips, sound bites that support my world view. America is so divided, politicians used to work together so well........ geez, give me a break. When Hannity, Limbaugh, Coulter etc. create a world with only two world views..."Conservatives" and "Liberals" the people in between who lean in either direction depending on the issue get insulted and trashed depending on the topic. The way the Right is heading now, with only "true believers" allowed... how do you think that is going to pull America together??? If you read my last post, I believe you will find evidence that I would much prefer a country less polarized. Personally, I feel that Barack Obama, had he been really serious about being a "post-partisan" President, could have made a real contribution toward that goal. But that's just my view. Let me correct you on one point. I don't hate anyone. One must expend way too much precious energy to actually hate. Correction #2: I didn't say that politicians worked together better in earlier times, but now that you mention it, that is very possibly true. I remember the story about Reagan and Tip O'Neil relaxing together for a drink after some thorny political issue had been argued; two old Irishmen laughing, drinking, and telling stories. It's hard to imagine a similar scenario with Pelosi and Boehner as participants instead of Tip and the Gipper. As for how the nation can become less polarized, I am unable to offer a solution. As I see it, the issue that separates the two parties can be expressed in this question: What is the correct role of the federal government? Conservatives and libertarians (the latter of which includes me as an adherent) say the government's role is important but limited. While members of those two groups do not see eye to eye on a number of issues, they do agree on one basic point; government should as seldom as possible, and then only reluctantly, compel individual citizens to do what they might not care to do if left alone. Liberals (or progressives), on the other hand, think the government should be bigger and more aggressive in seeking to solve the problems of the individual citizen. Collective interests should trump individual rights according to this view. The Tea Party movement, among things, is an expression of the concern that many people feel when they see the federal government getting ever larger and the rights of individuals becoming more and more compromised. On the other hand, there are many who want the government to be more actively promote "social justice." Such goals inevitably require the government to control more and more of the nation's GDP and to create more and more mandates for individual behavior. Obviously, conservatives and libertarians are adamantly opposed to the the goals of the progressives. Progressives are similarly opposed to the goals of the conservatives and libertarians. It seems to me that the goals of the two groups mentioned above are difficult to reconcile. Difficult, but not necessarily impossible. There has to be a willingness on the part of both groups to find common ground. Without that, bitter conflict will continue. The person who is in the best position to encourage better solidarity among the various interest groups in this country is the President of the U.S. Barack Obama has, sad to say, has pretty much wasted his opportunity to make that contribution. Perhaps some future President will seize that opportunity. AzWm |
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Post by uwaztec on Sept 28, 2010 11:55:30 GMT -8
Geez..the far Left is more hateful than the far Right....blah blah blah. William... you hate the far Left more than you hate the far Right. Your focus is there and you will find media clips, sound bites that support your world view. I hate the far Right more than I hate the far Left, so I can find media clips, sound bites that support my world view. America is so divided, politicians used to work together so well........ geez, give me a break. When Hannity, Limbaugh, Coulter etc. create a world with only two world views..."Conservatives" and "Liberals" the people in between who lean in either direction depending on the issue get insulted and trashed depending on the topic. The way the Right is heading now, with only "true believers" allowed... how do you think that is going to pull America together??? If you read my last post, I believe you will find evidence that I would much prefer a country less polarized. Personally, I feel that Barack Obama, had he been really serious about being a "post-partisan" President, could have made a real contribution toward that goal. But that's just my view. Let me correct you on one point. I don't hate anyone. One must expend way too much precious energy to actually hate. Correction #2: I didn't say that politicians worked together better in earlier times, but now that you mention it, that is very possibly true. I remember the story about Reagan and Tip O'Neil relaxing together for a drink after some thorny political issue had been argued; two old Irishmen laughing, drinking, and telling stories. It's hard to imagine a similar scenario with Pelosi and Boehner as participants instead of Tip and the Gipper. As for how the nation can become less polarized, I am unable to offer a solution. As I see it, the issue that separates the two parties can be expressed in this question: What is the correct role of the federal government? Conservatives and libertarians (the latter of which includes me as an adherent) say the government's role is important but limited. While members of those two groups do not see eye to eye on a number of issues, they do agree on one basic point; government should as seldom as possible, and then only reluctantly, compel individual citizens to do what they might not care to do if left alone. Liberals (or progressives), on the other hand, think the government should be bigger and more aggressive in seeking to solve the problems of the individual citizen. Collective interests should trump individual rights according to this view. The Tea Party movement, among things, is an expression of the concern that many people feel when they see the federal government getting ever larger and the rights of individuals becoming more and more compromised. On the other hand, there are many who want the government to be more actively promote "social justice." Such goals inevitably require the government to control more and more of the nation's GDP and to create more and more mandates for individual behavior. Obviously, conservatives and libertarians are adamantly opposed to the the goals of the progressives. Progressives are similarly opposed to the goals of the conservatives and libertarians. It seems to me that the goals of the two groups mentioned above are difficult to reconcile. Difficult, but not necessarily impossible. There has to be a willingness on the part of both groups to find common ground. Without that, bitter conflict will continue. The person who is in the best position to encourage better solidarity among the various interest groups in this country is the President of the U.S. Barack Obama has, sad to say, has pretty much wasted his opportunity to make that contribution. Perhaps some future President will seize that opportunity. AzWm William the Media fuels this thing. There is simply too much money to be made by making it an "us" against 'them" America....and the driving force is FOX News and talk radio. Put everybody in a box and demonize. Easy formula. As far as a US President bringing us together.... only a moderate stands a chance. I happen to like a guy like Bloomberg. Unfortunately, in the current climate.... a far Right candidate will probably win and we can all escalate the hate. |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Sept 30, 2010 6:45:32 GMT -8
William the Media fuels this thing. There is simply too much money to be made by making it an "us" against 'them" America....and the driving force is FOX News and talk radio. Put everybody in a box and demonize. Easy formula. As far as a US President bringing us together.... only a moderate stands a chance. I happen to like a guy like Bloomberg. Unfortunately, in the current climate.... a far Right candidate will probably win and we can all escalate the hate. Right you are. Anything is done to increase viewership to those people most prone to view.. Viewership sells advertising time, and that is money in the bank. Fox does a damn good job for their viewership. CBS does for theirs. It is the old capitalist system at its best. |
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