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Post by johneaztec on Sept 21, 2010 7:36:08 GMT -8
LMAO. Joe, you always do this. You rant and rave about the year Craft beat BYU and Utah (who were average that year), with "sophomores on his O-line". The problem is, Craft wasn't fired after that year. He came back the next season, laid a fat egg, and THEN was let go. He got four seasons. He had his first recruiting class as seniors, albeit a rushed class and not his fault. He had his first true, full class as juniors. And we saw what he left Long on the line. You act as if the O-line was ready to just blow up when Tom got fired. We've had major O-line issues every single season until this one. Yes, you are most certainly distorting the truth. His tenure was also plagued with retalitation lawsuits (Craft's fault, no, but he DID remove Ohton from football duties), NCAA violations, attrition, major APR problems that cost us scholarships, bad press, and bad losses. There is no denying the above. The man FAILED at SDSU. He is back in Juco ball where he is better off. Good luck to the 'stache. LMAO at you Josh. You need to practice what you preach to others and research before you post. Craft indeed beat Utah IN Utah, which is VERY difficult to do no matter what kind of season Utah was having, a season in which they went to a bowl game and beat Georgia Tech, and BYU in his FINAL season. They also lost to #20 TCU only 23-20 that season, a season in which they went 4-4 in conference something that hadn't happened in a long time. So no Josh, Craft DID NOT lay an egg his final year. As a matter of fact he did some things that hadn't been done around the MESA in a LONG time in his final year, a 4-4 record in conference, and beating both UTAH schools, one at their place. I believe that Craft would have recruited immediate help the next year at the O'line position to rectify his needs there, just like he did the year he went out and got Schmidt and Pino. I think it made Craft look bad when Long and Company, more Schemmel than Long, decided to go the slow route to success and recruit only H.S. guys instead of going after immediate help. So yes Josh, it is YOU who is either distorting the facts here, or just completely wrong on what you post. My biggest beef about Craft is that it seems as though people want to make him out to be worse than he was. I don't understand that one.
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Post by johneaztec on Sept 21, 2010 8:43:52 GMT -8
Josh, it was 2005 when he was fired. That was the same year when Utah and BYU went to bowl games AND SDSU beat them like a drum. That was when his first recruiting class of 2003 were playing as Redshirt Sophomores. I am amazed that you can not understand the concept. They were signed to letters of intent in February of 2003. They redshirted that season Sept - Dec 2003. They played their redshirt Freshman year in 2004 They played their redshirt Sophomore year in 2005. 2005 was when they (as sophomores) beat BYU and Utah. As Sophomores they showed during the season that they could make a lot of mistakes. OC had two fumbles just before halftime in the Air Force game, a game that without those Sophomore fumbles we could have won. Those linemen were playing way above what you would expect sophomores to do. Robinson and Dombrowski are now in the Pros. Same with OC. What a beautiful recruiting class that was. Long could not win with them because he was a total shithead, but Tom when he had the blocking up front could dissect any team in the country. No blocking = no dissection. As far as the class that Tollner turned over to Tom in the 2001 - 2002 recruiting season, those guys never made it to the Mesa. You say that we should blame Tom for that. Sorry, that does not hold water from my perspective. In normal recruiting, a coach goes into the house one to two years in advance to try to convince the mother (and father) of the kid that he should come to our school. It is a long process of keeping on the kid and helping him to see himself wearing the Black Uniform. When you convince them, they verbally precommit and 90 percent of the time they keep that commitment. Now, how many precommitments did Tollner get for that 2002 class? A normal coach gets about a quarter of a hundred promises from athletes. That 2001 - 2002 class was Tollner's class. Come on, Josh, tell me and the board how many precommits Tollner handed over to Tom Craft in January of 2002? Just a few days later was letter of intent day. Who were the precommits? Did they make it to the Mesa? When a kid commits he is off limits as regards recruiting unless he changes his mind. Usually all the quality kids are precommited by December. The only ones who are available in December are usually the ones who are projected to not qualify for admission. You can frantically try to sign them, but they almost never make it in. Craft's first "Go in the home" recruiting class was the 2002 - 2003 one Those kids are now in the Pros. I think that class had one or two who did not make it in to school. One or two is normal each class because kids just can not score high enough on the SAT or ACT. Such is life. You offer the scholarship in February and hope that they can make a qualifying score by September. Wrong. He was fired the year AFTER he beat BYU and Utah, Joe. Look it up. Craft coached FOUR seasons in full. If you can't add it up that he had one (half-ass, not his fault) as seniors, and his first full class as juniors, I can't help you. Funny guy.
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Post by joshjones1 on Sept 21, 2010 8:44:33 GMT -8
Joe, The UT and NCT has in depth articles on the attrition from Crafts program. It was hardly one or two. You're so far off on this. Look it up. Now..watch Josh $#!+ all over Joe....WHOOP there it is!! www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/feb/05/1s5azfoot/But the rate since has gradually improved, thanks largely to added academic services and staff, plus more focused academic emphasis in recruiting players. Former coach Chuck Long emphasized bringing in better students after SDSU suffered heavy roster attrition under his predecessor, Tom Craft. Of Craft’s 110 signees from 2002 to 2005, 38 percent fell off the roster prematurely or didn’t qualify academicallyWooooo!! I have EX-ercised...the demons!! Man it felt good to drop that. Jones by TKO.
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Post by joshjones1 on Sept 21, 2010 8:45:25 GMT -8
But the rate since has gradually improved, thanks largely to added academic services and staff, plus more focused academic emphasis in recruiting players. Former coach Chuck Long emphasized bringing in better students after SDSU suffered heavy roster attrition under his predecessor, Tom Craft. Of Craft’s 110 signees from 2002 to 2005, 38 percent fell off the roster prematurely or didn’t qualify academically.
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Post by joshjones1 on Sept 21, 2010 8:47:11 GMT -8
LMAO. Joe, you always do this. You rant and rave about the year Craft beat BYU and Utah (who were average that year), with "sophomores on his O-line". The problem is, Craft wasn't fired after that year. He came back the next season, laid a fat egg, and THEN was let go. He got four seasons. He had his first recruiting class as seniors, albeit a rushed class and not his fault. He had his first true, full class as juniors. And we saw what he left Long on the line. You act as if the O-line was ready to just blow up when Tom got fired. We've had major O-line issues every single season until this one. Yes, you are most certainly distorting the truth. His tenure was also plagued with retalitation lawsuits (Craft's fault, no, but he DID remove Ohton from football duties), NCAA violations, attrition, major APR problems that cost us scholarships, bad press, and bad losses. There is no denying the above. The man FAILED at SDSU. He is back in Juco ball where he is better off. Good luck to the 'stache. LMAO at you Josh. You need to practice what you preach to others and research before you post. Craft indeed beat Utah IN Utah, which is VERY difficult to do no matter what kind of season Utah was having, a season in which they went to a bowl game and beat Georgia Tech, and BYU in his FINAL season. They also lost to #20 TCU only 23-20 that season, a season in which they went 4-4 in conference something that hadn't happened in a long time. So no Josh, Craft DID NOT lay an egg his final year. As a matter of fact he did some things that hadn't been done around the MESA in a LONG time in his final year, a 4-4 record in conference, and beating both UTAH schools, one at their place. I believe that Craft would have recruited immediate help the next year at the O'line position to rectify his needs there, just like he did the year he went out and got Schmidt and Pino. I think it made Craft look bad when Long and Company, more Schemmel than Long, decided to go the slow route to success and recruit only H.S. guys instead of going after immediate help. So yes Josh, it is YOU who is either distorting the facts here, or just completely wrong on what you post. My biggest beef about Craft is that it seems as though people want to make him out to be worse than he was. I don't understand that one. If Tom beat BYU and utah his final season, then I stand corrected and apologize to you (for that point). Whom did he lose to? Idaho? Wyoming? Maybe UNLV?
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Post by johneaztec on Sept 21, 2010 8:49:01 GMT -8
LMAO. Joe, you always do this. You rant and rave about the year Craft beat BYU and Utah (who were average that year), with "sophomores on his O-line". The problem is, Craft wasn't fired after that year. He came back the next season, laid a fat egg, and THEN was let go. He got four seasons. He had his first recruiting class as seniors, albeit a rushed class and not his fault. He had his first true, full class as juniors. And we saw what he left Long on the line. You act as if the O-line was ready to just blow up when Tom got fired. We've had major O-line issues every single season until this one. Yes, you are most certainly distorting the truth. His tenure was also plagued with retalitation lawsuits (Craft's fault, no, but he DID remove Ohton from football duties), NCAA violations, attrition, major APR problems that cost us scholarships, bad press, and bad losses. There is no denying the above. The man FAILED at SDSU. He is back in Juco ball where he is better off. Good luck to the 'stache. Josh, in your post here, you clearly state that Craft was NOT fired after the season after he both Utah schools, and obiously he was.
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Post by joshjones1 on Sept 21, 2010 8:51:32 GMT -8
LMAO. Joe, you always do this. You rant and rave about the year Craft beat BYU and Utah (who were average that year), with "sophomores on his O-line". The problem is, Craft wasn't fired after that year. He came back the next season, laid a fat egg, and THEN was let go. He got four seasons. He had his first recruiting class as seniors, albeit a rushed class and not his fault. He had his first true, full class as juniors. And we saw what he left Long on the line. You act as if the O-line was ready to just blow up when Tom got fired. We've had major O-line issues every single season until this one. Yes, you are most certainly distorting the truth. His tenure was also plagued with retalitation lawsuits (Craft's fault, no, but he DID remove Ohton from football duties), NCAA violations, attrition, major APR problems that cost us scholarships, bad press, and bad losses. There is no denying the above. The man FAILED at SDSU. He is back in Juco ball where he is better off. Good luck to the 'stache. Josh, in your post here, you clearly state that Craft was NOT fired after the season after he both Utah schools, and obiously he was. Yes, and I apologized earlier for being incorrect. I was wrong on ONE aspect, the years we beat BY-WHO and Utah. I was right on about when he had seniors and juniors, and the massive amount of players exiting, and the APR issues. It was 5 years ago, I'm so sorry I flip flopped the years. I don't think Craft was awful, as you suggest above. God knows he won more than Chuckie. But...given the way he ran a program.....ex-players I know who couldnt stand him.....the attrition so heavy in the program (almost 40 percent!!!), it was time to fire him or we could be in an even BIGGER hole than Hoke is digging us out of. He's a bright offensive mind. He's an awful administrator. And I have heard he is a first class asshole too. I can't verify the last statement.
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Post by johneaztec on Sept 21, 2010 8:53:41 GMT -8
LMAO at you Josh. You need to practice what you preach to others and research before you post. Craft indeed beat Utah IN Utah, which is VERY difficult to do no matter what kind of season Utah was having, a season in which they went to a bowl game and beat Georgia Tech, and BYU in his FINAL season. They also lost to #20 TCU only 23-20 that season, a season in which they went 4-4 in conference something that hadn't happened in a long time. So no Josh, Craft DID NOT lay an egg his final year. As a matter of fact he did some things that hadn't been done around the MESA in a LONG time in his final year, a 4-4 record in conference, and beating both UTAH schools, one at their place. I believe that Craft would have recruited immediate help the next year at the O'line position to rectify his needs there, just like he did the year he went out and got Schmidt and Pino. I think it made Craft look bad when Long and Company, more Schemmel than Long, decided to go the slow route to success and recruit only H.S. guys instead of going after immediate help. So yes Josh, it is YOU who is either distorting the facts here, or just completely wrong on what you post. My biggest beef about Craft is that it seems as though people want to make him out to be worse than he was. I don't understand that one. If Tom beat BYU and utah his final season, then I stand corrected and apologize to you (for that point). Whom did he lose to? Idaho? Wyoming? Maybe UNLV? That's alright. The killer was the UNLV loss, at UNLV, in a swirling wind like I've never seen before. KO had a horrible time in that wind. If they get that win, then they're bowling, but we all know about that curse that's going around.
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Post by joshjones1 on Sept 21, 2010 8:56:59 GMT -8
If Tom beat BYU and utah his final season, then I stand corrected and apologize to you (for that point). Whom did he lose to? Idaho? Wyoming? Maybe UNLV? That's alright. The killer was the UNLV loss, at UNLV, in a swirling wind like I've never seen before. KO had a horrible time in that wind. If they get that win, then they're bowling, but we all know about that curse that's going around. Very true, and I believe we also had Ohio State and UCLA that year...as well as a finale against Hawaii. I recall because my boy Fred Collins had a big game against the Rainbows. Tough schedule. Given the circumstances, ol Tom did pretty darn well that year. I remembered it wrong. I thought it was the year prior to him being canned. But.....given what we found out a year or so later, about his recruiting classes, APR, etc.....I think he was fired appropriately. HIring Long was the big mistake. Although he did help out the APR situation, which is much more important than many realize.
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Post by johneaztec on Sept 21, 2010 9:03:36 GMT -8
Josh, in your post here, you clearly state that Craft was NOT fired after the season after he both Utah schools, and obiously he was. Yes, and I apologized earlier for being incorrect. I was wrong on ONE aspect, the years we beat BY-WHO and Utah. I was right on about when he had seniors and juniors, and the massive amount of players exiting, and the APR issues. It was 5 years ago, I'm so sorry I flip flopped the years. I don't think Craft was awful, as you suggest above. God knows he won more than Chuckie. But...given the way he ran a program.....ex-players I know who couldnt stand him.....the attrition so heavy in the program (almost 40 percent!!!), it was time to fire him or we could be in an even BIGGER hole than Hoke is digging us out of. He's a bright offensive mind. He's an awful administrator. And I have heard he is a first class asshole too. I can't verify the last statement. Josh, there's always two sides to a story If you really look at what he did in his last year, I think they had some momentum going into the next year. Some positives to build on. They won 2 out of their last 3, went 4-4 in conference and had a VERY good group coming back. I don't know what you mean by players exiting, I don't remember players quiting.
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Post by johneaztec on Sept 21, 2010 9:21:39 GMT -8
I think Craft was thrown into a no win situation.
Think about it, he was a coach who never had experience running a D1 program, yet they put a ton of pressure on him to WIN NOW. They gave him zero resources, KILLER schedules, etc......
So in turn, he took he took some chances to win right away. His teams always played hard. Look at their tough losses to top teams and their wins against teams that maybe we shouldn't have beat. He typically beat the team he was supposed to, there were some exceptions just like any team.
I think he really had no chance for a consistent winning program based on many factors. In essence, he was a lame duck coach who took a job nobody else wanted.
s
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Post by joshjones1 on Sept 21, 2010 9:23:05 GMT -8
John,
Scroll up to the article above. Almost 40 percent of Crafts recruits left the program prematurely.
That is a staggering number.
We would have been in a bigger hole had we kept Tom.
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Post by johneaztec on Sept 21, 2010 9:26:28 GMT -8
John, Scroll up to the article above. Almost 40 percent of Crafts recruits left the program prematurely. That is a staggering number. We would have been in a bigger hole had we kept Tom. Sorry Josh, I'll read the article in a minute, but do you mean quit, or didn't make it in academically?
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Sept 21, 2010 9:31:45 GMT -8
John, Scroll up to the article above. Almost 40 percent of Crafts recruits left the program prematurely. That is a staggering number. We would have been in a bigger hole had we kept Tom. Sorry Josh, I'll read the article in a minute, but do you mean quit, or didn't make it in academically? Long drove a lot of talent off with his stupidity. He was the greatest disaster in the history of coaching. Laying his insanity on Tom Craft is the same as claiming that this depression is the result of Eisenhower's economic policies in the fifties.
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Post by joshjones1 on Sept 21, 2010 9:33:34 GMT -8
I think Craft was thrown into a no win situation. Think about it, he was a coach who never had experience running a D1 program, yet they put a ton of pressure on him to WIN NOW. They gave him zero resources, KILLER schedules, etc...... So in turn, he took he took some chances to win right away. His teams always played hard. Look at their tough losses to top teams and their wins against teams that maybe we shouldn't have beat. He typically beat the team he was supposed to, there were some exceptions just like any team. I think he really had no chance for a consistent winning program based on many factors. In essence, he was a lame duck coach who took a job nobody else wanted. s You know, I won't disagree with that. You make some very good points. VERY tough OOC schedules...he pulled off some good wins, we had some exciting offenses that first year with Hall-Tolver-Osgood, and he did have limited resources. Very much so. So, I can't fault Tom for taking some chances in recruiting. He did bring in some good players. It was the right choice to move on from his tenure though, or we would keep losing schollies. The choice to replace him was the REAL bad move.
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Post by joshjones1 on Sept 21, 2010 9:34:02 GMT -8
John, Scroll up to the article above. Almost 40 percent of Crafts recruits left the program prematurely. That is a staggering number. We would have been in a bigger hole had we kept Tom. Sorry Josh, I'll read the article in a minute, but do you mean quit, or didn't make it in academically? Both, but more of the latter.
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Post by joshjones1 on Sept 21, 2010 9:34:51 GMT -8
Sorry Josh, I'll read the article in a minute, but do you mean quit, or didn't make it in academically? Long drove a lot of talent off with his stupidity. He was the greatest disaster in the history of coaching. Laying his insanity on Tom Craft is the same as claiming that this depression is the result of Eisenhower's economic policies in the fifties. So, you're blaming Chuck Long for 38% attrition of Crafts recruits? Damn, you're brutal.
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Sept 21, 2010 9:41:37 GMT -8
My biggest beef about Craft is that it seems as though people want to make him out to be worse than he was. I don't understand that one. That is my beef, too. I did not push for Tom to be hired. But once he was hired, he proved that he could build the program from the ground up and was doing it. Years before, I went to Palomar games and loved his offense. His calls reminded me of Coryell on the sidelines. Tom won all those national championships because he has a special gift for attacking weaknesses of his opponents. And, a lot of that is situational. He can dissect defenses. Few coaches can. Once he was here, I gave him my support. Unfortunately the average posters on this board are too stupid to understand that it takes years to build a program. You can not just snap your fingers and have experienced Seniors instantly playing for you. YOu have to build. Long got linemen like Dombrowski and Robinson. The JC All American talent (Pino, Schmit, Nelson...) that Tom had recruited to fill the absence of Tollner's linemen graduated in 2005 when Tom was fired. Otherwise, he was going to bring in two more all American JC kids to add depth as the Freshmen matured. He would have had Five Juniors in the Starting offensive line in 2006. But he was gone, and Long screwed everything up.
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Post by johneaztec on Sept 21, 2010 10:01:02 GMT -8
I think Craft was thrown into a no win situation. Think about it, he was a coach who never had experience running a D1 program, yet they put a ton of pressure on him to WIN NOW. They gave him zero resources, KILLER schedules, etc...... So in turn, he took he took some chances to win right away. His teams always played hard. Look at their tough losses to top teams and their wins against teams that maybe we shouldn't have beat. He typically beat the team he was supposed to, there were some exceptions just like any team. I think he really had no chance for a consistent winning program based on many factors. In essence, he was a lame duck coach who took a job nobody else wanted. s You know, I won't disagree with that. You make some very good points. VERY tough OOC schedules...he pulled off some good wins, we had some exciting offenses that first year with Hall-Tolver-Osgood, and he did have limited resources. Very much so. So, I can't fault Tom for taking some chances in recruiting. He did bring in some good players. It was the right choice to move on from his tenure though, or we would keep losing schollies. The choice to replace him was the REAL bad move. I'll even say that he did very well for a coach that was set up for failure, the epitome of a lame duck coach situation.
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Post by johneaztec on Sept 21, 2010 10:29:15 GMT -8
My biggest beef about Craft is that it seems as though people want to make him out to be worse than he was. I don't understand that one. That is my beef, too. I did not push for Tom to be hired. But once he was hired, he proved that he could build the program from the ground up and was doing it. Years before, I went to Palomar games and loved his offense. His calls reminded me of Coryell on the sidelines. Tom won all those national championships because he has a special gift for attacking weaknesses of his opponents. And, a lot of that is situational. He can dissect defenses. Few coaches can. Once he was here, I gave him my support. Unfortunately the average posters on this board are too stupid to understand that it takes years to build a program. You can not just snap your fingers and have experienced Seniors instantly playing for you. YOu have to build. Long got linemen like Dombrowski and Robinson. The JC All American talent (Pino, Schmit, Nelson...) that Tom had recruited to fill the absence of Tollner's linemen graduated in 2005 when Tom was fired. Otherwise, he was going to bring in two more all American JC kids to add depth as the Freshmen matured. He would have had Five Juniors in the Starting offensive line in 2006. But he was gone, and Long screwed everything up. Tom continually said that it would take MANY years for this program to get it to where it needed to be. The big one was the damn schedule, he got murdered by that thing right out of the gates,and the lack of resources. Don't forget he hired Kaumeyer, who's still coaching and gave Andy Buh his first gig, so he has an eye for talent with players and coaches. So he was the lame duck coach who had to go through those tough schedules because we needed the money, not to prove we could beat those guys, even though we nearly did a few times, remarkably, given the place the program was in at the time. Remember, he had to be talked into taking the job since he's always been perfectly content with the path he was taking in the Juco ranks towards retirement. He doesn't care to be rich, he'd rather be happy than take on a mess, but he did, and he gave it 110 percent for his Alma Mater. I just wish his Alma Mater gave him 110 percent in helping to get to a bowl game.
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