|
|
Post by davdesid on Sept 5, 2010 15:36:05 GMT -8
The =Perfesser likes to repeat over and over again a cherry-picked phrase from Ike's farewell address about the "military-industrial complex", and like all good libs, he tries to spin it into something Ike didn't quite really mean. What, pray tell, might Eisenhower have meant? Well, can you interpret this part for us? Progress toward these noble goals is persistently threatened by the conflict now engulfing the world. It commands our whole attention, absorbs our very beings. We face a hostile ideology -- global in scope, atheistic in character, ruthless in purpose, and insidious in method. Unhappily the danger is poses promises to be of indefinite duration. To meet it successfully, there is called for, not so much the emotional and transitory sacrifices of crisis, but rather those which enable us to carry forward steadily, surely, and without complaint the burdens of a prolonged and complex struggle -- with liberty the stake. Only thus shall we remain, despite every provocation, on our charted course toward permanent peace and human betterment.Oh, and how 'bout those pesky references to "God" in the address? The whole address is demolished. |
|
|
|
Post by davdesid on Sept 5, 2010 16:44:34 GMT -8
Here's another passage from Ike's address that the libs would prefer to ignore: Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow. Pretty sure reagan and bush II would just as soon ignore these words too. |
|
|
|
Post by Bob Forsythe on Sept 5, 2010 16:59:11 GMT -8
The =Perfesser likes to repeat over and over again a cherry-picked phrase from Ike's farewell address about the "military-industrial complex", and like all good libs, he tries to spin it into something Ike didn't quite really mean. I'm happy to read that you are the expert of experts on what Ike meant in that address. But that aside, how's about you address my non-troll comments about how massively dependent our country is on the military and the defense industry? Attacking is all well and good, but what say you in defense of all the bases and troops we have stationed all over the world? Do we really need bases in Japan or anywhere in Europe? I will give you Ramstein simply because of its medical facilities, but is it not possible that we could get rid of a number of our overseas bases without endangering our security? =Bob |
|
|
|
Post by Bob Forsythe on Sept 5, 2010 17:19:34 GMT -8
>>>But, of course, those on here who benefit from he military welfare system will undoubtedly disagree with me because they enjoy he benefits offered them because they spent 20 years floating on boats.<<< Of course the =Perfesser knows very well that in terms actual time on the job, i.e. at WORK, it would take a municipal county parasite at least 40 years of sitting on his fat ass in an air conditioned office, dreaming up ways to harrass the people and eat out their substance to even come close to matching 20 years in the military. How about the "municipal county parasite" that works on County roads, including S-2 in the desert in the middle of the summer? Are they not earning their pay? And while I recognize that you served on swift boats, how many people were working in air conditioned offices in Saigon while you were doing so? Remember something; I started at City College in '68 so I met a lot of vets, many who saw combat but also a lot who had not. One in particular was a supply Sgt. who served at Da Nang. Loved to brag about how when shipments of ice cream would come in, they'd put aside 10 percent for themselves before distributing it. And again, you fail to recognize that I worked for the County for only 16 years. Before that I carried mail for 6 years and I watched quite a few retired vets announce before their 90 day probation period was up that the work was "too hard" and quit. You also neglect the 4 years I worked in archaeology. Please explain to me how walking 10-12 miles a day on the China Lake bombing range in June is soft work, or how digging 100 cm a day in Rancho San Diego in August, with temps approaching 100 degrees, is soft work. My point isn't to defend my work record, it's to point out that there are a lot of people who do jobs just as hard and difficult as those in the military (outside of combat) who don't get to retire after 20 years with lifetime medical benefits. But some of those same people love to whine and fuss about how terrible it is that government employees get to retire at age 60 at 3 percent X the number of years worked and generally do not get free medical benefits. It's not that I devalue what members of the military go through but rather you seem to devalue what everyone who hasn't served in the military have to deal with in their jobs. =Bob |
|
|
|
Post by aztecwin on Sept 5, 2010 19:16:03 GMT -8
The =Perfesser likes to repeat over and over again a cherry-picked phrase from Ike's farewell address about the "military-industrial complex", and like all good libs, he tries to spin it into something Ike didn't quite really mean. Here's another passage from Ike's address that the libs would prefer to ignore: Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow. Sound familiar to what's going on with this turd administration? Anyhow, here is the entire Ike address. You decide whether the liberal turds want you to know the context: www.h-net.org/~hst306/documents/indust.htmlYou use the phrase "liberal turds". Don't you think one of those words would have been considered redundant by your English teacher? |
|
|
|
Post by aztecwin on Sept 5, 2010 19:22:42 GMT -8
>>>But, of course, those on here who benefit from he military welfare system will undoubtedly disagree with me because they enjoy he benefits offered them because they spent 20 years floating on boats.<<< Of course the =Perfesser knows very well that in terms actual time on the job, i.e. at WORK, it would take a municipal county parasite at least 40 years of sitting on his fat ass in an air conditioned office, dreaming up ways to harrass the people and eat out their substance to even come close to matching 20 years in the military. How about the "municipal county parasite" that works on County roads, including S-2 in the desert in the middle of the summer? Are they not earning their pay? And while I recognize that you served on swift boats, how many people were working in air conditioned offices in Saigon while you were doing so? Remember something; I started at City College in '68 so I met a lot of vets, many who saw combat but also a lot who had not. One in particular was a supply Sgt. who served at Da Nang. Loved to brag about how when shipments of ice cream would come in, they'd put aside 10 percent for themselves before distributing it. And again, you fail to recognize that I worked for the County for only 16 years. Before that I carried mail for 6 years and I watched quite a few retired vets announce before their 90 day probation period was up that the work was "too hard" and quit. You also neglect the 4 years I worked in archaeology. Please explain to me how walking 10-12 miles a day on the China Lake bombing range in June is soft work, or how digging 100 cm a day in Rancho San Diego in August, with temps approaching 100 degrees, is soft work. My point isn't to defend my work record, it's to point out that there are a lot of people who do jobs just as hard and difficult as those in the military (outside of combat) who don't get to retire after 20 years with lifetime medical benefits. But some of those same people love to whine and fuss about how terrible it is that government employees get to retire at age 60 at 3 percent X the number of years worked and generally do not get free medical benefits. It's not that I devalue what members of the military go through but rather you seem to devalue what everyone who hasn't served in the military have to deal with in their jobs. =Bob I don't see a point anywhere in your post. The thing I do pick out is that you only worked 26 years total and are now on the dole somehow on early retirement. Most us us worked 45 or more years. Your last paragraph is total baloney. Your entire purpose was to do exactly what you say you were not doing. |
|
|
|
Post by davdesid on Sept 6, 2010 12:45:33 GMT -8
>>>But, of course, those on here who benefit from he military welfare system will undoubtedly disagree with me because they enjoy he benefits offered them because they spent 20 years floating on boats.<<< Of course the =Perfesser knows very well that in terms actual time on the job, i.e. at WORK, it would take a municipal county parasite at least 40 years of sitting on his fat ass in an air conditioned office, dreaming up ways to harrass the people and eat out their substance to even come close to matching 20 years in the military. How about the "municipal county parasite" that works on County roads, including S-2 in the desert in the middle of the summer? Are they not earning their pay? And while I recognize that you served on swift boats, how many people were working in air conditioned offices in Saigon while you were doing so? Remember something; I started at City College in '68 so I met a lot of vets, many who saw combat but also a lot who had not. One in particular was a supply Sgt. who served at Da Nang. Loved to brag about how when shipments of ice cream would come in, they'd put aside 10 percent for themselves before distributing it. And again, you fail to recognize that I worked for the County for only 16 years. Before that I carried mail for 6 years and I watched quite a few retired vets announce before their 90 day probation period was up that the work was "too hard" and quit. You also neglect the 4 years I worked in archaeology. Please explain to me how walking 10-12 miles a day on the China Lake bombing range in June is soft work, or how digging 100 cm a day in Rancho San Diego in August, with temps approaching 100 degrees, is soft work. My point isn't to defend my work record, it's to point out that there are a lot of people who do jobs just as hard and difficult as those in the military (outside of combat) who don't get to retire after 20 years with lifetime medical benefits. But some of those same people love to whine and fuss about how terrible it is that government employees get to retire at age 60 at 3 percent X the number of years worked and generally do not get free medical benefits. It's not that I devalue what members of the military go through but rather you seem to devalue what everyone who hasn't served in the military have to deal with in their jobs. =Bob Oh, all right. I take it back. I got what I was looking for... provoking a rant from you. ;D Still, the point is that 20 years of military service adds up to one hell of a lot of hours on the job. A good share of that 20 is on duty 24/7. And there is no such thing as overtime pay or comp time. And that guy working roads in the desert has a union to make sure he gets adequate comensation. Most municipal employees enjoy all those benefits plus many get bloated salaries plus expenses. The issue is hot button right now, especially after the Bell revelations. |
|
|
|
Post by aztecwin on Sept 6, 2010 15:59:35 GMT -8
How about the "municipal county parasite" that works on County roads, including S-2 in the desert in the middle of the summer? Are they not earning their pay? And while I recognize that you served on swift boats, how many people were working in air conditioned offices in Saigon while you were doing so? Remember something; I started at City College in '68 so I met a lot of vets, many who saw combat but also a lot who had not. One in particular was a supply Sgt. who served at Da Nang. Loved to brag about how when shipments of ice cream would come in, they'd put aside 10 percent for themselves before distributing it. And again, you fail to recognize that I worked for the County for only 16 years. Before that I carried mail for 6 years and I watched quite a few retired vets announce before their 90 day probation period was up that the work was "too hard" and quit. You also neglect the 4 years I worked in archaeology. Please explain to me how walking 10-12 miles a day on the China Lake bombing range in June is soft work, or how digging 100 cm a day in Rancho San Diego in August, with temps approaching 100 degrees, is soft work. My point isn't to defend my work record, it's to point out that there are a lot of people who do jobs just as hard and difficult as those in the military (outside of combat) who don't get to retire after 20 years with lifetime medical benefits. But some of those same people love to whine and fuss about how terrible it is that government employees get to retire at age 60 at 3 percent X the number of years worked and generally do not get free medical benefits. It's not that I devalue what members of the military go through but rather you seem to devalue what everyone who hasn't served in the military have to deal with in their jobs. =Bob Oh, all right. I take it back. I got what I was looking for... provoking a rant from you. ;D Still, the point is that 20 years of military service adds up to one hell of a lot of hours on the job. A good share of that 20 is on duty 24/7. And there is no such thing as overtime pay or comp time. And that guy working roads in the desert has a union to make sure he gets adequate comensation. Most municipal employees enjoy all those benefits plus many get bloated salaries plus expenses. The issue is hot button right now, especially after the Bell revelations. I wonder how one of those bloated County Toads would fare in a typical work day at sea "floating on a boat". They just have no idea what you do at sea. |
|
|
|
Post by davdesid on Sept 6, 2010 16:44:16 GMT -8
Oh, all right. I take it back. I got what I was looking for... provoking a rant from you. ;D Still, the point is that 20 years of military service adds up to one hell of a lot of hours on the job. A good share of that 20 is on duty 24/7. And there is no such thing as overtime pay or comp time. And that guy working roads in the desert has a union to make sure he gets adequate comensation. Most municipal employees enjoy all those benefits plus many get bloated salaries plus expenses. The issue is hot button right now, especially after the Bell revelations. I wonder how one of those bloated County Toads would fare in a typical work day at sea "floating on a boat". They just have no idea what you do at sea. Well, I suppose some would adjust. But quite a few would fold after a mid-night unrep in a heavy sea state, and after choking on their own puke for half the night still have to make 0600 reveille. Weeks of that on end. And no overtime pay. |
|
|
|
Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Sept 6, 2010 20:23:57 GMT -8
The =Perfesser likes to repeat over and over again a cherry-picked phrase from Ike's farewell address about the "military-industrial complex", and like all good libs, he tries to spin it into something Ike didn't quite really mean. Here's another passage from Ike's address that the libs would prefer to ignore: Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow. Sound familiar to what's going on with this turd administration? Anyhow, here is the entire Ike address. You decide whether the liberal turds want you to know the context: www.h-net.org/~hst306/documents/indust.htmlYou use the phrase "liberal turds". Don't you think one of those words would have been considered redundant by your English teacher? Darn, you know that Republican $#!+ is also redundant? |
|
|
|
Post by aztec70 on Sept 6, 2010 21:31:05 GMT -8
How many of us have never worked for the government? Myself for one. Who else?
|
|
|
|
Post by uwaztec on Sept 7, 2010 6:05:02 GMT -8
I wonder how one of those bloated County Toads would fare in a typical work day at sea "floating on a boat". They just have no idea what you do at sea. Well, I suppose some would adjust. But quite a few would fold after a mid-night unrep in a heavy sea state, and after choking on their own puke for half the night still have to make 0600 reveille. Weeks of that on end. And no overtime pay. Well... I was a bloated County Toad for 6 years, does that count? Not for my personality and would have been placed in a straight jacket if I had stayed. Anyway, I will say with all confidence that I have more hours at sea than Sid and Win put together. My time working at sea started in my mid 20's extends into my mid-fifties and I am still out at least 1-2 days per week. I have been in all states of seas and all types of vessels. I have been seasick and vomited once. Does that mean I can hang with you guys? |
|
|
|
Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Sept 7, 2010 6:17:39 GMT -8
Well, I suppose some would adjust. But quite a few would fold after a mid-night unrep in a heavy sea state, and after choking on their own puke for half the night still have to make 0600 reveille. Weeks of that on end. And no overtime pay. Well... I was a bloated County Toad for 6 years, does that count? Not for my personality and would have been placed in a straight jacket if I had stayed. Anyway, I will say with all confidence that I have more hours at sea than Sid and Win put together. My time working at sea started in my mid 20's extends into my mid-fifties and I am still out at least 1-2 days per week. I have been in all states of seas and all types of vessels. I have been seasick and vomited once. Does that mean I can hang with you guys? I vomited only once, too. I was doing such an aggressive job of it that my asshole was sucking air. |
|
|
|
Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Sept 7, 2010 6:28:17 GMT -8
Well, can you interpret this part for us? Progress toward these noble goals is persistently threatened by the conflict now engulfing the world. It commands our whole attention, absorbs our very beings. We face a hostile ideology -- global in scope, atheistic in character, ruthless in purpose, and insidious in method. Unhappily the danger is poses promises to be of indefinite duration. To meet it successfully, there is called for, not so much the emotional and transitory sacrifices of crisis, but rather those which enable us to carry forward steadily, surely, and without complaint the burdens of a prolonged and complex struggle -- with liberty the stake. Only thus shall we remain, despite every provocation, on our charted course toward permanent peace and human betterment.As everyone can see, that ideology essentially died and we never had to fight it. Thus our entire military effort in the Cold War went for naught and was a tremendous waste of money. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2010 9:14:03 GMT -8
='s and the Missus, Labor Day 2010  All kidding aside, in his own weird way, Bob has a point, he just doesn't know enough to point to where the real problem is. If you view military spending as a problem, the place to start cutting isn't overseas, it's in the Pentagon, Crystal City and Arlington. Gates came out a few weeks ago with what I think is the correct approach, reduce and eliminate redundancy in the command structure and streamline the procurement process. He plans to eliminate JFCOM which is a great first step. hamptonroads.com/2010/08/dangerous-winds-jfcom-closureThe next step is to streamline the procurement process by reducing the number of contract vehicles and procuring agencies. The next step is to de-politicize the procurement process which will be nearly impossible. |
|
|
|
Post by davdesid on Sept 7, 2010 12:28:06 GMT -8
Well, I suppose some would adjust. But quite a few would fold after a mid-night unrep in a heavy sea state, and after choking on their own puke for half the night still have to make 0600 reveille. Weeks of that on end. And no overtime pay. Well... I was a bloated County Toad for 6 years, does that count? Not for my personality and would have been placed in a straight jacket if I had stayed. Anyway, I will say with all confidence that I have more hours at sea than Sid and Win put together. My time working at sea started in my mid 20's extends into my mid-fifties and I am still out at least 1-2 days per week. I have been in all states of seas and all types of vessels. I have been seasick and vomited once. Does that mean I can hang with you guys? You bet! |
|
|
|
Post by aztecwin on Sept 7, 2010 13:03:58 GMT -8
Well, I suppose some would adjust. But quite a few would fold after a mid-night unrep in a heavy sea state, and after choking on their own puke for half the night still have to make 0600 reveille. Weeks of that on end. And no overtime pay. Well... I was a bloated County Toad for 6 years, does that count? Not for my personality and would have been placed in a straight jacket if I had stayed. Anyway, I will say with all confidence that I have more hours at sea than Sid and Win put together. My time working at sea started in my mid 20's extends into my mid-fifties and I am still out at least 1-2 days per week. I have been in all states of seas and all types of vessels. I have been seasick and vomited once. Does that mean I can hang with you guys? Since you admit your condition while working for the county and that you have been to sea a little, you can "hang" with us as a junior "hanger".  |
|
|
|
Post by uwaztec on Sept 7, 2010 17:42:41 GMT -8
Well... I was a bloated County Toad for 6 years, does that count? Not for my personality and would have been placed in a straight jacket if I had stayed. Anyway, I will say with all confidence that I have more hours at sea than Sid and Win put together. My time working at sea started in my mid 20's extends into my mid-fifties and I am still out at least 1-2 days per week. I have been in all states of seas and all types of vessels. I have been seasick and vomited once. Does that mean I can hang with you guys? Since you admit your condition while working for the county and that you have been to sea a little, you can "hang" with us as a junior "hanger". Gee...thanks for throwing me a bone Win...  |
|
|
|
Post by 78aztec82 on Sept 11, 2010 10:55:56 GMT -8
I'm sorry, but I am totally fed up with the career military types on here whining about this that and the other thing while they are part of the greatest welfare system this planet has ever seen. If they were in combat, that's something and I would never disagree with giving them benefits, even though VA still often refuses to recognize PTSD. But I mean really; they join up at 18, spend 20 years when they may or may not see combat, but even if they don't see combat, they assume some sort of mortal high ground simply because they spent 20 years floating on boats. Let's face it - last time the Nav, outside of Nav pilots, was in any sort of significant engagement was WW II. The simple fact is this - if we want to balance our budget, we need to totally cut back on DOD funding. There is no reason in Hell that we should have 12 or however many carrier groups we have. And, quite frankly, I'll join with the libertarians in questioning why we still have bases in Europe and Japan. I'm willing to accept Ramstein but aside from that, we should get the F@#$ out of Germany, Europe and Asia. Of course, that will never happen because DOD has become, as Ike warned, nothing more than a whore to the defense industry. The military/industrial complex took control of this country back in the '50s and our economy has declined because those pieces of crap corporations did so. But, of course, those on here who benefit from he military welfare system will undoubtedly disagree with me because they enjoy he benefits offered them because they spent 20 years floating on boats. =Bob So, my service and others like me are no different than those who exist solely on welfare without trying hard? So much blather, so little time. -bob, you are clueless, as usual. Lets talk about the Navy comment by itself. First up. Every Marine combat arms squad has a Navy Corpsman as a critical part, one of which earned the Navy Cross for bravery while under my command. Navy Special Forces are carrying quite a load right now. A number of individual augment Navy folks are doing great things in harms way. Navy Seabees are out in amongst the Iraqis and Afghans every day helping with a number of projects. Navy EOD are part of our Route Clearance teams making travel safe for US and locals in Iraq and Afghanistan while under fire and seeking (and hopefully) clearing IEDs. When ranting and sliming the military, at least proffer the truth rather than this ridiculous, embarrassing crap. Disgusting. Funny that you an Joe are actually on the same side of that ridiculous coin. |
|
|
|
Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Sept 11, 2010 11:02:37 GMT -8
... ridiculous, embarrassing crap. Disgusting. Funny that you an Joe are actually on the same side of that ridiculous coin. The simple fact of the matter is that if we did away with the military and the military industrial complex, we would not have to lose all these young lives while actively killing people for their extreme religious beliefs. If the United States was not actively engaged all over the world we would not have all of the enemies that we presently have. Time to do away with the military and balance our budget. Nobody can disagree with that. It just makes sense. |
|
