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Post by aztecemp on Aug 13, 2012 18:28:27 GMT -8
Around the horn to discuss this thing ... ESPN after commercial right now if interested What did around the horn say? One panelist hated the idea, the other panelist thought it was a good idea. |
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Post by ellbee on Aug 13, 2012 18:37:11 GMT -8
Did anyone mention that SDSU also had the Head Coach who tried to reinvent modern college football by punting on THIRD down?
If they'd mentioned that, everyone would quickly realize that this is just the natural evolution of the punting game on Montezuma Mesa.
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Post by zurac315 on Aug 13, 2012 19:03:08 GMT -8
Belichick almost nevers punts either. He called a pass play on fourth down against the Colts a few years ago on the Pats' 30 and failed to make it. But that's the only fourth down play I recall that the Pats did not convert to a first down. I also really like the onsides kick especially at the start of the game. Most defenses are totally unprepared for an onsides kick at the start of the game. After the first time, they'll then be prepared. |
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Post by zurac315 on Aug 13, 2012 19:04:57 GMT -8
Totally. Like the guy isn't going to punt 4th and 10 from our 30. Even Air Force punts then. We may go for it more but Seamus will be needed. It said, INSIDE THE 50. |
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Post by badfish on Aug 13, 2012 19:06:57 GMT -8
at least this is pretty good publicity, it's like the 3rd slide over on yahoo news
Give my comment some thumbs up, I said "Go Aztecs"
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Aug 13, 2012 21:19:33 GMT -8
I have been saying for years that you should always go for it on 4th and short inside the opponent's 40. A punt will usually net you only 15-20 yards, so why voluntarily give up the ball?
Inside the 50 is more of a gamble. I'd definitely buy into it every 4th and less than 7 inside the opponent's 40, and inside the 50 on 4th and less than 2 maybe.
Be aggressive - play to win, don't play not to lose.
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Post by Old School on Aug 13, 2012 21:57:13 GMT -8
 "YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!" Now about that prevent defense... Oldie Out |
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Post by sdsuaztecs on Aug 14, 2012 5:41:06 GMT -8
If it's fourth and one I'd go for it from OUR 35.
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Post by jhonka34 on Aug 14, 2012 5:54:23 GMT -8
One of the theories behind this is to show confidence in your team. Let's say you are on your own 40 and it is 4th and short (no more than 2 yards). When you decide to go for it there, you are telling each unit you have confidence in them. You are telling the offense that you have confidence they can make short yardage in pressure situations AND you are telling the defense that you have confidence that they can stop the other offense on a short field should it fail.
This only works if the team buys in to the no punting idea. If the coach can't convince them it is a sound ideology, then both units will be upset that they are being put in high pressure situations unnecessarily.
The more you think about it, it is crazy how much psychology plays into athletic performance.
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Post by uncledougy on Aug 14, 2012 6:07:14 GMT -8
One of the theories behind this is to show confidence in your team. Let's say you are on your own 40 and it is 4th and short (no more than 2 yards). When you decide to go for it there, you are telling each unit you have confidence in them. You are telling the offense that you have confidence they can make short yardage in pressure situations AND you are telling the defense that you have confidence that they can stop the other offense on a short field should it fail. This only works if the team buys in to the no punting idea. If the coach can't convince them it is a sound ideology, then both units will be upset that they are being put in high pressure situations unnecessarily. The more you think about it, it is crazy how much psychology plays into athletic performance. Going for it shows confidence in the offense, but no confidence in the defense......unless you are confident the defense can hold if you don't convert. Either way I say "go for it"! |
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Post by jhonka34 on Aug 14, 2012 8:03:23 GMT -8
One of the theories behind this is to show confidence in your team. Let's say you are on your own 40 and it is 4th and short (no more than 2 yards). When you decide to go for it there, you are telling each unit you have confidence in them. You are telling the offense that you have confidence they can make short yardage in pressure situations AND you are telling the defense that you have confidence that they can stop the other offense on a short field should it fail. This only works if the team buys in to the no punting idea. If the coach can't convince them it is a sound ideology, then both units will be upset that they are being put in high pressure situations unnecessarily. The more you think about it, it is crazy how much psychology plays into athletic performance. Going for it shows confidence in the offense, but no confidence in the defense......unless you are confident the defense can hold if you don't convert. Either way I say "go for it"! That is what the theory says: "Hey Defense, we want to score points so were going to go for it, because we know you can stop them if we don't make it." The main risk (aside from your defense not actually being able to stop them) is if your defense doesn't buy-in, they might get upset that you are making the game harder for them. But really, if you can't get a single yard when you need it, do you really deserve to win the game? |
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Post by AztecBill on Aug 14, 2012 11:01:39 GMT -8
Here is a 4th down calculator for the NFL Try it for the following situations from our bowl game last year: Situation 1: Score diff -10 Time: 14:00 2nd Q Field Posistion: Own 37 To Go Yardage: 1 Situation 2: Score diff -9 Time: 10:13 4th Q Field Posistion: Opp 19 To Go Yardage: 6
The results show point wise which is better but more interesting is the results below that. It shows which is better based upon score and time. Note: better = best chance to win.
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Post by tonatiuh on Aug 14, 2012 11:36:27 GMT -8
There's a high School coach in Arkansas (Pulasiki Academy, I think) that's pioneered this approach and it's worked out very well for him. He did a study that basically indicated that most of the time you only give up a TD even if you turn the ball over on downs deep in your territory 15% more of the time than if you punt and that time of possession is far more important than most people realize. But Pulasiki is a dominate private school program that recruits all over the south east. I looked it up: sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/scorecasting/09/15/kelley.pulaski/index.htmlYes, we know that because Rocky had already said he had read the article, and studied the info some. But, that is in High School. College is quite a different matter. Obviously, the players are bigger, faster, and usually smarter. So, does it have a chance to work against D1 defenses? The only way to know for sure is to try it out. I suppose we will see it at the scrimmage on Saturday. Sounds interesting, but you could be taking a big chance if it doesn't work. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 11:51:26 GMT -8
Belichick almost nevers punts either. He called a pass play on fourth down against the Colts a few years ago on the Pats' 30 and failed to make it. But that's the only fourth down play I recall that the Pats did not convert to a first down. I also really like the onsides kick especially at the start of the game. Most defenses are totally unprepared for an onsides kick at the start of the game. The Patriots punted 58 times last season. ;D Unsure how many were across the opponents 50. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 11:52:00 GMT -8
Actually statistically it's stupid to punt on 4th and short, I read an article a year or so ago and not punting would yield more points etc... Punting is kinda like the sac bunt in baseball No, it's really nothing like it at all. |
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Post by yougotslaughtered on Aug 14, 2012 13:58:59 GMT -8
Dont know if anybodys brought this up yet, but I heard on the Josh and Sherrod show that it will be even more interesting to see how many on-side kicks we'll attempt, cause the high shcool coach who the story is loosly based on, ALWAYS on-side kicks it.
I'll be nervous as SH#@ everytime we do it, but if it proves to be effective...That would be awesome and I think that's a huge advantage for us!
Regardless, Im really happy Rocky is the way he is. I start to like him more and more as our coach. Doesnt put with crap, and does things his way...gotta respect that.
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Post by sdsuaztecs on Aug 14, 2012 14:21:06 GMT -8
Josh,
I think the key stat is how many times you make it on 4th and one from wherever on the field. Parcells and Belichick very, very, very reluctantly ever punted only in circumstances (4th and 10 from their own 20) which dictated they do so. I love challenging the defense. We should do way more of it. In other words, "believe you are going to win" and go for it.
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Post by sdsustoner on Aug 14, 2012 14:27:42 GMT -8
Did anyone mention that SDSU also had the Head Coach who tried to reinvent modern college football by punting on THIRD down? If they'd mentioned that, everyone would quickly realize that this is just the natural evolution of the punting game on Montezuma Mesa. That approach led to an impressive moral victory at the Big House. |
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Post by aztec4life09 on Aug 14, 2012 15:37:17 GMT -8
I think this is great, but why tell everyone before hand?
Wouldn't it probably be better to just implement it and see how it goes. The media would have picked it up at some point...
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Post by ellbee on Aug 14, 2012 15:58:23 GMT -8
I think this is great, but why tell everyone before hand? Wouldn't it probably be better to just implement it and see how it goes. The media would have picked it up at some point... If you tell the opposition ahead of time, it's one more thing to prepare for... Is it a trick play if you don't actually run it? |
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