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Post by monty on Aug 28, 2010 21:20:28 GMT -8
UFC really needs to get rid of the saying James Toney is one of the greatest fighters or not ridiculing the performance of BJ Penn.
UFC will never take another step forward and will be, unfortunately, a hick, backwoods, desert sport until they get guys that can call-out the card and the display.
BJ penn looked like an old-f#@# and Toney had a few days in the sun in a boxing ring a long time ago, and they trot that out there.
If it is going to stay one body, they need to pull it back and have say 3 cards a year, because tonight was embarasing, thank god you can stream this $#!+.
Just imagine if Lampley, Merchant and Kellerman called that - shouldn't Merchant be writing the epitaph to Penn? Shouldn't Kellerman be calling out what bull$#!+ it is to have an out of shape boxer that wasn't even a great to begin with fight in some other sport?
I like MMA, it can be great, but damn, this WWF bull$#!+ has to go
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 28, 2010 21:40:04 GMT -8
I really don't get your point. It's pretty obvious that they were trying to make an example of Toney. Dana came out and said so several times. Regarding the Penn fight, I think Edgar just has BJ's number, plain and simple. BJ scored a few takedowns, but was never able to gain a dominant position in the fight. Styles make fights, Edgar's style is just a bad matchup for BJ. Three cards a year will never happen. You obviously didn't watch last month's card, which was nothing short of epic. The UFC has gone beyond the hick/redneck/backwoods draw it used to be. If you want to see just how far it's come, watch UFC 8 or 9, which took place 15 or so years ago.
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Post by greysuit on Aug 30, 2010 6:11:54 GMT -8
I really don't get your point. It's pretty obvious that they were trying to make an example of Toney. Dana came out and said so several times. Regarding the Penn fight, I think Edgar just has BJ's number, plain and simple. BJ scored a few takedowns, but was never able to gain a dominant position in the fight. Styles make fights, Edgar's style is just a bad matchup for BJ. Three cards a year will never happen. You obviously didn't watch last month's card, which was nothing short of epic. The UFC has gone beyond the hick/redneck/backwoods draw it used to be. If you want to see just how far it's come, watch UFC 8 or 9, which took place 15 or so years ago. Bingo! |
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Post by ragin'aztec on Aug 30, 2010 10:48:35 GMT -8
I agree. Less wwf. I don't mind trash talking before fights, all long as it's genuine. Like Sonnen vs Silva where sonnen just wouldn't shut up but I don't think he was doing it just to build up hype it seemed like he didn't even care about the hype he just hated Silva and really believed he was better than silva. And damn he was almost right he was just a minute away from winning. He did what he said he was gonna do which was that he was going after silva, which is refreshing, for any kind of fight.
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Post by k5james on Sept 3, 2010 10:50:17 GMT -8
UFC really needs to get rid of the saying James Toney is one of the greatest fighters or not ridiculing the performance of BJ Penn. UFC will never take another step forward and will be, unfortunately, a hick, backwoods, desert sport until they get guys that can call-out the card and the display. BJ penn looked like an old-f#@# and Toney had a few days in the sun in a boxing ring a long time ago, and they trot that out there. If it is going to stay one body, they need to pull it back and have say 3 cards a year, because tonight was embarasing, thank god you can stream this $#!+. Just imagine if Lampley, Merchant and Kellerman called that - shouldn't Merchant be writing the epitaph to Penn? Shouldn't Kellerman be calling out what bull$#!+ it is to have an out of shape boxer that wasn't even a great to begin with fight in some other sport? I like MMA, it can be great, but damn, this WWF bull$#!+ has to go Couldn't agree more. |
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 3, 2010 12:17:39 GMT -8
You guys are so far off your rocker, it's laughable.
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Post by joshjones1 on Sept 3, 2010 16:04:03 GMT -8
I really don't get your point. It's pretty obvious that they were trying to make an example of Toney. Dana came out and said so several times. Regarding the Penn fight, I think Edgar just has BJ's number, plain and simple. BJ scored a few takedowns, but was never able to gain a dominant position in the fight. Styles make fights, Edgar's style is just a bad matchup for BJ. Three cards a year will never happen. You obviously didn't watch last month's card, which was nothing short of epic. The UFC has gone beyond the hick/redneck/backwoods draw it used to be. If you want to see just how far it's come, watch UFC 8 or 9, which took place 15 or so years ago. You charge $50 (or more in HD which is what everyone I know wants) for a pay-per-view, then you damn well better give the fans a great product. You don't use that as a forum to "make an example" out of someone who obviously has no business in an MMA fight. Toney is old, fat, and has NO skills besides boxing. He just wanted a paycheck. Look at the shape he was in. I love UFC, and am still stoked for Lesnar-Velasquez in October, but they really need to address their matchmaking. They also recycle fights like crazy and fall in love with rematches (really hyping GSP-Koscheck II  )...........I don't need to see Mir-Nogueira again, GSP and Koscheck again, Rampage vs. Griffin (alot of talk its in negotiations), Liddell vs. Ortiz 8, Penn-Edgar, etc. Don't f****** tell me Jon Jones isn't ready. Get him in there against a Top 3 guy in his class. Get Shane Carwin in on the big Anaheim undercard against Junior Dos Santos, so they can join what looks to be a great card featuring Diego, Brock, Cain, Jake Shields, etc. BJ Penn is one of the most overrated UFC fighters I have ever seen, Monty. I am glad you called him out on your post. |
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 4, 2010 8:43:37 GMT -8
I haven't paid for a PPV in a long time, so I can't comment there. Starting with your point about GSP...who the hell is left for him in welterweight to fight? They have little choice because he has cleaned out that division so drastically. He'll smother Koscheck and win by decision again. This is more about "TUF" than anything else, because they needed to do a season of welterweights, so GSP had to fight someone, and Koscheck was basically the next guy. Mir vs. Nog is off, and has been for close to three weeks now. Cro Cop is replacing Nog. Rampage and Griffin was debated for a little while, but Machida and Rampage has been set already, also a few weeks ago. Penn vs. Edgar, there absolutely needed to be a rematch, unless you're one of about three people on Earth who thought Edgar thoroughly and decisively beat B.J. in the first match in Abu Dhabi. Jones will fight the winner of Bader and Lil Nog, that's been announced already. Carwin is going to fight Roy Nelson, as already was covered after the JDS/Nelson fight. Regarding BJ, I'm not sure how anyone can say he's overrated. This guy was the best lightweight fighter in the world less than a year ago. BJ's biggest problem has always been himself. He's his own worst enemy, and his rigid attitude towards changing camps and showing a lack of loyalty to his trainer (his brother) has also hurt him. He just seemed to be burned out to me in the Edgar rematch. If you don't train hard, you'll lose. Simple. When he's on top of his game though, I'd still argue he's a better fighter than Edgar. Sounds to me Josh like you need to keep up on current events.  |
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 4, 2010 8:49:42 GMT -8
I do agree with your point on Toney though, he had no business in the Octagon, and now that he's gone, we can get back to meaningful fights.
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Post by joshjones1 on Sept 4, 2010 12:11:54 GMT -8
I haven't paid for a PPV in a long time, so I can't comment there. Starting with your point about GSP...who the hell is left for him in welterweight to fight? They have little choice because he has cleaned out that division so drastically. He'll smother Koscheck and win by decision again. This is more about "TUF" than anything else, because they needed to do a season of welterweights, so GSP had to fight someone, and Koscheck was basically the next guy. Mir vs. Nog is off, and has been for close to three weeks now. Cro Cop is replacing Nog. Rampage and Griffin was debated for a little while, but Machida and Rampage has been set already, also a few weeks ago. Penn vs. Edgar, there absolutely needed to be a rematch, unless you're one of about three people on Earth who thought Edgar thoroughly and decisively beat B.J. in the first match in Abu Dhabi. Jones will fight the winner of Bader and Lil Nog, that's been announced already. Carwin is going to fight Roy Nelson, as already was covered after the JDS/Nelson fight. Regarding BJ, I'm not sure how anyone can say he's overrated. This guy was the best lightweight fighter in the world less than a year ago. BJ's biggest problem has always been himself. He's his own worst enemy, and his rigid attitude towards changing camps and showing a lack of loyalty to his trainer (his brother) has also hurt him. He just seemed to be burned out to me in the Edgar rematch. If you don't train hard, you'll lose. Simple. When he's on top of his game though, I'd still argue he's a better fighter than Edgar. Sounds to me Josh like you need to keep up on current events. You completely missed my take...I didn't say these guys didn't have opponents already, I am merely pointing out who I would like them to fight (as I bet most fans would agree with me). Carwin will destroy Roy's fat ass, a better matchup would be Carwin vs. JDS. I didn't realize Mir vs. Nog was off, because I don't give a $#!+ about that fight and am UFC sleep mode until the October Anaheim card. I, too, rarely order the PPVs because my local pub shows it for $5 cover......but you get my point. Better matchmaking, please. I didn't know Machida-Rampage was set, pleased to hear that. Is that confirmed? Because last time you speculated it was being added to the Anaheim card, you were wrong. My problem with you Ryan, and no offense, you completely lose all objectivity when you're a fan of something. It's true. In following your comments about UFC, the Padres, and the Chargers for the last few years, it's easy to pick up on. Every UFC card is the tits......Merriman is going to have a huge year this year (is he even practicing yet---ugh), AJ Smith never makes a wrong move....Dacker, Forsythe, and every other Padre prospect is absolutely phenomenal and will set the Padres up for years (still waiting for ONE Padre prospect to shine on offense...at least we got Latos on the staff), etc, etc, etc. I think you know I am not a negative type person. I give credit where its due, I admit when I'm wrong, but I call it like I see it. You don't. You may be right on THIS thread, but if you're going to tell me UFC matchmaking is flawless right now, I say you're full of $#!+. And no other UFC fan I speak too seems to be too keen on the matches lately. Hey, maybe we can get Liddell-Ortiz 25 next year, or Rich Franklin can fight Forest Griffin, because once you're in good with Dana.....you're set. |
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Post by joshjones1 on Sept 4, 2010 12:15:54 GMT -8
Ryan,
Just read about Machida-Rampage for the 123 card in Detroit. That's good to see.
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 4, 2010 12:48:26 GMT -8
Whoa whoa whoa. Slow down buddy. This is not the Chargers or the Padres or anything else. One topic at a time. And you're completely wrong about AJ Smith, because I've criticized his moves in extending Tucker, Castillo and the draft of Buster Davis, but I digress. I'll say it this way. I can pretty much find enjoyment in almost every UFC fight. It doesn't have to be a slugfest or a brawl for me to enjoy it. I love good technical grappling battles, near-submissions, almost every type of fight I can enjoy watching. That's not losing objectivity. That's called being an enthusiastic fan with a deeper knowledge of the sport than the casual fan who throws the remote if there isn't a vicious KO. I won't touch on the Padres or Chargers at length in this thread, other than the above statement so as not to pollute it. But time will tell on those. Regarding matchmaking, is it perfect? Nope. But by and large, the UFC caters to its fans and puts on the fights the fans at large want to see. JDS vs. Carwin might be a better fight for your tastes, but JDS has already been promised the next title shot after the Lesnar/Cain fight. Honestly, I found the Toney fight hilarious and entertaining. Didn't drag down the value of the card for me at all. In a system where there is between 25-30 cards a year (including Fight Nights and others) occasionally you'll have bad fights. The organization is HUGE, fighters have to fight on a regular basis. So they do the best they can, or Joe Silva does, while trying to balance getting guys fights at the same times so they can run their camps and support their families. Hey, in a perfect world, I'd like to see guys like Kawajiri, Aoki, Hansen, Barnett, Alvarez, Noons, and on and on to be in the UFC. I'd like to see Anderson Silva fight Shogun. Nothing wrong with being idealistic.
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 4, 2010 12:54:30 GMT -8
Regarding matchmaking, taking into account the current landscape, what fights would you like to see? Ones that are logical and work within the scheme of the divisions. Edgar vs. Maynard II is going to be......tough to watch, even for me. I forgot to mention that with your complaint about GSP, they would have made GSP vs. Jake Shields had he signed in time. But I'd like to see that after Shields beats Kampmann, which by the way, should be a hell of a fight. Anderson Silva vs. Okami or Belfort (Confirmed for UFC 122 in Germany) would be fun. Light heavyweight's a mess due to Shogun's 50th knee surgery. Rampage vs. Machida is a good start. Jones vs. Bader or Nogueira should be a lot of fun, too. Heavyweights are pretty much set.
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Post by joshjones1 on Sept 4, 2010 19:15:54 GMT -8
I respect your knowledge of UFC Ryan, which definitely exceeds mine. But if these cards were free on Spike or Versus, that'd be fine. If you're going to charge $50 or more and give the fans $#!+, that is bull$#!+. They need to have a more concerted effort to get us the best, stacked cards.
Why promise JDS the winner of Lesnar-Velasquez already? He hasn't proven $#!+. Let's throw him in vs. Carwin and see how he does against the guy Lesnar just beat. Roy Nelson is not an elite heavyweight, regardless of what you want to believe. I don't care that he was champion of a half-ass league years ago. He's a good heavyweight, not a great one.
Based on what you're telling me, there is some good stuff to come. Machida-Rampage....GOOD. GSP vs. Shields eventually...GREAT (love Shields, and I DO like the Kampmann fight for him).......one re-match I do want to see by early next year is Spider and Cael (you gotta re-match that one)........George Sotiropoulos may be the best submission artist in the MMA LW division, and has never lost in the UFC, let's get him against an elite LW already, how about him vs. Maynard? That'd be legit, to determine who gets Edgar next. Remember his epic battle against Joe Stevenson? Fuckin A.
As for needing a "vicious KO" to be happy...no, not at all. I enjoy many of the fights, although guys who spend a lot of time on the ground without doing much (see Jon Fitch's last fight as a prime example of what I mean) will really bore me. For the record....I do respect Fitch, I am referring to one particular fight.
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 4, 2010 19:29:27 GMT -8
I love George. Really like him. He has got to get moving though, because he's no spring chicken, I think he's 33. His last loss was by DQ to Aoki. His best win in the UFC though is probably over Stevenson, who's a fringe top ten guy. I think he needs one more fight to get into title talk. Silva and Chael will have a rematch. Dana pretty much guaranteed that in the post-fight presser. Regarding JDS vs. Carwin, I think if Carwin were to win that fight, it's too soon to see Lesnar vs. Carwin II. I think that's the only problem. JDS is 25, so he has plenty of years ahead of him and I think it's the logical next step for him because he's mowed down everyone in front of him. Lesnar should beat Cain, and I think JDS poses several problems for him. His striking is infinitely better than Cain's at this point. I just don't know if he's bulky enough to handle Lesnar's power. Wish I could go to that card in Anaheim, but I'll be out of town.
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Post by joshjones1 on Sept 4, 2010 19:32:50 GMT -8
I love George. Really like him. He has got to get moving though, because he's no spring chicken, I think he's 33. His last loss was by DQ to Aoki. His best win in the UFC though is probably over Stevenson, who's a fringe top ten guy. I think he needs one more fight to get into title talk. Silva and Chael will have a rematch. Dana pretty much guaranteed that in the post-fight presser. Regarding JDS vs. Carwin, I think if Carwin were to win that fight, it's too soon to see Lesnar vs. Carwin II. I think that's the only problem. JDS is 25, so he has plenty of years ahead of him and I think it's the logical next step for him because he's mowed down everyone in front of him. Lesnar should beat Cain, and I think JDS poses several problems for him. His striking is infinitely better than Cain's at this point. I just don't know if he's bulky enough to handle Lesnar's power. Wish I could go to that card in Anaheim, but I'll be out of town. Right, I only said never lost in UFC, which he hasn't. The Aoki fight was not a UFC fight. I believe he is 5-0 or 6-0 UFC. And the loss to Aoki was on a DQ. |
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 5, 2010 10:48:01 GMT -8
An awesome fight would be George vs. Evan Dunham, provided Dunham beats Sherk in a few weeks.
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 7, 2010 14:36:39 GMT -8
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Post by joshjones1 on Sept 7, 2010 18:02:15 GMT -8
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 7, 2010 19:09:55 GMT -8
Sources are rumbling that Silva vs. Sonnen II is tentatively set for UFC 125. New Years Day.
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)...........I don't need to see Mir-Nogueira again, GSP and Koscheck again, Rampage vs. Griffin (alot of talk its in negotiations), Liddell vs. Ortiz 8, Penn-Edgar, etc.