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Post by aztec70 on Jul 11, 2012 12:45:50 GMT -8
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 11, 2012 16:59:24 GMT -8
I don't think so, at least not the ObamaKare template.
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Jul 12, 2012 9:39:26 GMT -8
I don't think so, at least not the ObamaKare template. When the repubs actually propose a plan then maybe we'll listen to you. The last 'plan' proposed which contained all of your current talking points; tort reform, competition accross state lines, private cooperatives, etc. was shown by the CBO as not reducing the number of uninsured at all. It did show that those who currently have healthcare would experience a small reduction in premiums though. When you guys actually propose a plan that will cover EVERYONE then it will be the first time. |
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Post by tuff on Jul 12, 2012 12:22:00 GMT -8
It's flat out not a right.
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Jul 12, 2012 14:57:34 GMT -8
It's flat out not a right. It IS a right in any civilized society. |
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Post by aztec70 on Jul 12, 2012 16:45:16 GMT -8
It's flat out not a right. Conservatives said the same thing about women voting. |
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Post by JOCAZTEC on Jul 12, 2012 17:29:10 GMT -8
A "right" to require doctors to conduct brain surgery for $14.50 per hour. Women voting is a done deal. Do you really expect that conscripting doctors to work in a "government" run system is going to produce quality medicine? AND, how much are the 21 new osamataxes going to cost you and your family for this, "right"  Remember, it was the libexxls who got us into all the wars over the past century. And, yes, Hillary voted, "aye" on the war in Irack. HAM Tax |
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Post by aztec70 on Jul 12, 2012 21:54:03 GMT -8
A "right" to require doctors to conduct brain surgery for $14.50 per hour. Women voting is a done deal. Do you really expect that conscripting doctors to work in a "government" run system is going to produce quality medicine? AND, how much are the 21 new osamataxes going to cost you and your family for this, "right" Remember, it was the libexxls who got us into all the wars over the past century. And, yes, Hillary voted, "aye" on the war in Irack. HAM Tax If you are not on drugs, perhaps you should be. |
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Post by JOCAZTEC on Jul 13, 2012 9:05:58 GMT -8
No debate, no questions, just silence your opposition by drugging them...that's the U.S.S.R. way of life!
HAM Tax
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Post by norseman on Jan 23, 2013 6:27:20 GMT -8
Yes of course health care is the right of the public.
The govenment should take the necessary steps to start the differnt health care program for the public.
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Post by aztecmichael on Sept 27, 2013 16:17:40 GMT -8
Like most political issues, most people reporting on it as well as those pushing it, have very little perspective.
For most of human history, the human life expectancy went virtually unchanged. In the last 150 years, I believe thanks to private industry, profits and the influence of capitalism, the average life span has increased by well over 100%. So now, after private industry has done the heavy lifting, government is going to come in and appear as the "saviors" of health care. The question becomes, would you rather have increased societal life span and quality of life, or coverage for ALL.
I think my main problem with liberals is they NEVER give the credit or proper perspective to issues. They always act as if the issue started with them and they are going to fix it. If Obama would have come out and given proper perspective and given the proper credit, this would be a done deal already. They are not saviors and the great healers of the past are getting short changed.
All I can say is thank goodness health care was not a "right" over the last 150 years. Most of us would probably be in the grave and not posting on AztecMesa.
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Post by azteccc on Sept 27, 2013 16:30:07 GMT -8
Like most political issues, most people reporting on it as well as those pushing it, have very little perspective. For most of human history, the human life expectancy went virtually unchanged. In the last 150 years, I believe thanks to private industry, profits and the influence of capitalism, the average life span has increased by well over 100%. So now, after private industry has done the heavy lifting, government is going to come in and appear as the "saviors" of health care. The question becomes, would you rather have increased societal life span and quality of life, or coverage for ALL. I think my main problem with liberals is they NEVER give the credit or proper perspective to issues. They always act as if the issue started with them and they are going to fix it. If Obama would have come out and given proper perspective and given the proper credit, this would be a done deal already. They are not saviors and the great healers of the past are getting short changed. All I can say is thank goodness health care was not a "right" over the last 150 years. Most of us would probably be in the grave and not posting on AztecMesa. 1. It is already a done deal. 2. Check the life expectancy in countries with actual socialized medicine compared to ours and get back to us. |
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Post by aztecmichael on Sept 27, 2013 16:54:04 GMT -8
Like most political issues, most people reporting on it as well as those pushing it, have very little perspective. For most of human history, the human life expectancy went virtually unchanged. In the last 150 years, I believe thanks to private industry, profits and the influence of capitalism, the average life span has increased by well over 100%. So now, after private industry has done the heavy lifting, government is going to come in and appear as the "saviors" of health care. The question becomes, would you rather have increased societal life span and quality of life, or coverage for ALL. I think my main problem with liberals is they NEVER give the credit or proper perspective to issues. They always act as if the issue started with them and they are going to fix it. If Obama would have come out and given proper perspective and given the proper credit, this would be a done deal already. They are not saviors and the great healers of the past are getting short changed. All I can say is thank goodness health care was not a "right" over the last 150 years. Most of us would probably be in the grave and not posting on AztecMesa. 1. It is already a done deal. 2. Check the life expectancy in countries with actual socialized medicine compared to ours and get back to us. Socialized medicine is an outgrowth of capitalism creating modern healthcare. Without innovation over the past century driven by capitalism, socialized medicine is a meaningless term. I hope that the medical profession still attracts the top tier of students and I hope that companies still find enough profit motive to create new drugs and new equipment. Covering the 15% of people who are uninsured is not a good enough of a reason, imho, to stop innovation in the private sector and start attracting mediocre students to med schools, but my guess is that is exactly what will happen. |
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Post by tuff on Sept 28, 2013 20:00:23 GMT -8
It's flat out not a right. It IS a right in any civilized society. It's a perk in a prosperous civilized society. It is not a right. Ask your doctor. |
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Post by tuff on Sept 28, 2013 20:03:15 GMT -8
Like most political issues, most people reporting on it as well as those pushing it, have very little perspective. For most of human history, the human life expectancy went virtually unchanged. In the last 150 years, I believe thanks to private industry, profits and the influence of capitalism, the average life span has increased by well over 100%. So now, after private industry has done the heavy lifting, government is going to come in and appear as the "saviors" of health care. The question becomes, would you rather have increased societal life span and quality of life, or coverage for ALL. I think my main problem with liberals is they NEVER give the credit or proper perspective to issues. They always act as if the issue started with them and they are going to fix it. If Obama would have come out and given proper perspective and given the proper credit, this would be a done deal already. They are not saviors and the great healers of the past are getting short changed. All I can say is thank goodness health care was not a "right" over the last 150 years. Most of us would probably be in the grave and not posting on AztecMesa. 1. It is already a done deal. 2. Check the life expectancy in countries with actual socialized medicine compared to ours and get back to us. Go over and ask them what they think of it. It will surprise you. |
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Post by aztec70 on Sept 28, 2013 21:18:45 GMT -8
1. It is already a done deal. 2. Check the life expectancy in countries with actual socialized medicine compared to ours and get back to us. Go over and ask them what they think of it. It will surprise you. I am sure some will complain. These Americans thought it was good. blog.ricksteves.com/?p=8231 |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 30, 2013 9:29:40 GMT -8
Aztecmichael is absolutely correct. Please reread his first post in his thread and take it to heart. Look, unlike many on the Left, I do not think that those who disagree with me are mean-spirited, loathsome creatures worthy only of contempt. I think that those on the Left who favor collectivist solutions want to do good. Wanting to do good, unfortunately, is not enough. We see this in the field of health insurance (I say health insurance because that's what ObamaCare really is, a complete reworking of health insurance rather than a true health CARE system). The way the ACA was crafted would win the Rube Goldberg Award for incompetent design if such an award existed. Feature after feature of ObamaCare turns out to be unworkable. Even many of the act's biggest supporters are crying foul. I agree that our health care system is far from perfect. (Though it's doubtful that you would get better care anywhere.) But this mess is not the answer. Frankly, I think that it would have been better to levy a new tax designed to provide uninsured citizens the ability to purchase insurance in a truly open market. The ObamaCare Exchanges are not truly open markets. (I am not crazy about new taxes, but a clean system that enabled citizens to make their own choices regarding which policy to buy would have been better than the ACA system which enables the government to tell you which policies you can buy and which you can't . . . for your own good, of course.  ) One of my biggest complaints about the Leftist/collectivist mind is that those people are quite sure that they can design complicated solutions to big problems without, apparently, considering or even being aware of the unintended negative consequences that inevitably flow from overly complex, poorly crafted laws. In essence, those on the Left are extremely arrogant. They think they know best what's good for others. They don't. Nobody does. Instead of trying to redesign large portions of our society in one giant step, we need more humble legislators who will see the wisdom of taking much smaller steps and seeing how those steps work out before proceeding to the next step. It's a lot safer way to go about solving the nation's problems. What I, and some others, fear is that we will end up, not with a more egalitarian health care system (no doubt the dream of such worthies as Nancy Pelosi, Bernie Sanders, and Barack Obama) but with a system in which the wealthy will get the best care with the shortest waiting lines, while the vast majority of Americans will be worse off, with longer waits for critical care, and at much higher costs than promised. If you doubt that last point, check out the very high deductibles required by the insurance plans from which we will be forced to choose. Well, forced to choose unless we are wealthy. Of course, it would help if everyone recognized that there are a lot of issues that the government really should not try to deal with in the first place. But that would mean accepting a smaller role in society. For many, that would be a bitter pill to swallow. AzWm
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Post by tuff on Sept 30, 2013 17:12:52 GMT -8
The right to bear arms is a right. Healthcare is not.
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