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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2010 11:56:36 GMT -8
Here's the L.A. Times' Chris Dufresne on the topic today in answer to his own question about whether the issue is now dead:
Raiding conferences teams is like eating peanuts - it's hard to stop at just one or two. The Big East and Big 12 probably survived extinction when the Pac-10's failure to become 16 teams forestalled a chain reaction that probably would have redrawn the map.
Big East Commissioner John Marinatto recently pronounced his league stronger than ever after warding off a Big Ten attack, but that might be wishful thinking. Delany says the Big Ten is taking a pause, but "we are not necessarily turning our back on expansion."
Mark my words, fellow Aztecs, raiding of the MWC isn't over and we are on the clock.
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Post by hoobs on Aug 8, 2010 12:03:25 GMT -8
Eat or be eaten.
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Post by panammaniac on Aug 9, 2010 10:23:55 GMT -8
We have discussed conference expansion/realignment ad-nauseum over on the NMSU board. Pretty much everyone agrees that it's not over - there will be another wave of realignment in a few years. Whether that means the Big XII grabs 2 more schools to get back to 12, or the Pac 10 continues their conquest of the Big XII to get to 16, or whatever. Time will tell what actually happens.
I have come to the conclusion that whatever does happen, there will still be enough mid-major teams hanging in the mix in the western part of the country to form a perfectly viable new conference. Say for example the Big XII invites BYU and TCU, leaving the MWC with 7. That's 15 teams remaining between the MWC and the WAC. It's safe to say the WAC could easily lose at least one more school - LA Tech isn't a geographic fit and could be looking elsewhere, and SJSU's football program is on shaky ground financially. I personally don't think a 14-team combined WAC/MWC would be such a bad thing. There would be some real nice basketball matchups wuth NMSU, UNM, SDSU, Utah State, UNLV, and Nevada battling it out every year. There would also be good geographical alignment with some travel pairs that make sense.
A lot of people from the WAC are concerned about the MWC losing BYU and TCU, and the MWC filling in the gaps by adding Fresno and Nevada. If that happens it leaves the WAC in a very bad position that it may not be able to recover from. However, I don't think that move makes any sense for the MWC. Fresno adds a little football strength but little else, and they won't bring in a bunch of incremental TV revenue. Nevada adds a little basketball strength and a travel parter for UNLV, but adds even less than Fresno in terms of TV revenue. To me, some form of a merger between the two, less a couple of current schools, looks a lot more attractive.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2010 11:37:02 GMT -8
Nevada's a fraud. A 7-1 WAC record juxtaposed against a 1-4 OOC record. Further, as was well put on the MWC board, their football stadium looks like a giant Erector Set.
TCU won't be leaving the MWC any time soon. Texas will never allow TCU into the Big 12 because of concern about the recruiting implications to say nothing of the conference standings competition and the SEC wouldn't be interested because TCU has much too small of a student population.
BYU and UNM are therefore the two most likely schools to be poached by the Big 12. However, if the other members of the Big 12 are fine with whoring themselves out to UT, the Big 12 could stay at 10 members for a couple decades. If BYU and UNM are poached, the replacements would most obviously be not Fresno and Nevada but Fresno and Houston. (Rumor has it Houston has already approached the MWC about possible membership.)
As to a merger of the MWC and the WAC, I see zero chance of that occurring. Most of the WAC offers little or nothing to the MWC and if another school or two needed to be found, North Texas and Texas-Arlington with their new stadiums and access to Texas recruiting and TV sets would be more valuable than most of the WAC locations. IMO, the WAC's best chance for survival as a football conference will be a merger with the SBC. Football is huge in the South and an east-west divisional configuration would allow for greater national visibility for both.
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Post by panammaniac on Aug 9, 2010 12:52:14 GMT -8
There have been some reports that WAC Commisioner Benson has been approached by an unspecified "former WAC member" about re-joining the conference. Benson confirmed the discussions in a recent interview. I have a link to a source somewhere but I'll have to find it.
That begs the question of who it could be. UTEP is reportedly not completely happy in CUSA, and it only makes sense for them to be in the same conference as NMSU and UNM since the three have had a nice 3-way rivalry for years. They all play each other twice every year in basketball, tying up 2 OOC dates that could then be used for scheduling some other mid-major. The problem is that UTEP's administration has gone to great lengths in recent years to stay out of the same conference as NMSU.
If not UTEP, then who else? Tulsa? That makes a small amount of sense because it bridges some of the geographical gap between NMSU and LA Tech, but that's about it. SMU? Not a chance. BYU? Only if they go indy in football and join the WAC for everything else, which seems far fetched.
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Post by McQuervo on Aug 9, 2010 15:06:01 GMT -8
Nevada's a fraud. A 7-1 WAC record juxtaposed against a 1-4 OOC record. Further, as was well put on the MWC board, their football stadium looks like a giant Erector Set.. UNR is a what? You dont follow D-1 Fb obviously.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2010 12:46:55 GMT -8
Nevada's a fraud. A 7-1 WAC record juxtaposed against a 1-4 OOC record. Further, as was well put on the MWC board, their football stadium looks like a giant Erector Set.. UNR is a what? You dont follow D-1 Fb obviously. A fraud . . . and for the reason I gave. If you disagree, say why and kindly desist from the ad hominem attacks. (BTW, to anyone else who may be reading, it should be pointed out that you once said Chris Ault was one of the best coaches in college football history, which shows your objectivity on the matter.)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2010 12:52:01 GMT -8
There have been some reports that WAC Commisioner Benson has been approached by an unspecified "former WAC member" about re-joining the conference. Benson confirmed the discussions in a recent interview. I have a link to a source somewhere but I'll have to find it. You don't need to link it as somebody already did so on the MWC board and I read it there. My reaction was and is that Benson can't necessarily be believed. Assuming he was being truthful, the only MWC school it could possibly be is UNLV, which has shown since creation of the MWC that by virtue of the modest amount it devotes to football salaries and the sparse amount of football discussion on the UNLV message board that the school has little interest in that sport. Certainly not enough to ever be a consistent bowl qualifier. On that basis, UNLV might as well return to the WAC and I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that could occur. As to the rest of the MWC, the only possible chance might be BYU which, as you mention, might be a good fit for the WAC if the Cougars were to do indy for football.
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Post by k5james on Aug 10, 2010 14:45:35 GMT -8
UNR is a what? You dont follow D-1 Fb obviously. A fraud . . . and for the reason I gave. If you disagree, say why and kindly desist from the ad hominem attacks. (BTW, to anyone else who may be reading, it should be pointed out that you once said Chris Ault was one of the best coaches in college football history, which shows your objectivity on the matter.) Agreed, they are the biggest of frauds. I'd argue they're even more of a fraud than Fresneck State.
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Post by panammaniac on Aug 11, 2010 8:58:49 GMT -8
There have been some reports that WAC Commisioner Benson has been approached by an unspecified "former WAC member" about re-joining the conference. Benson confirmed the discussions in a recent interview. I have a link to a source somewhere but I'll have to find it. You don't need to link it as somebody already did so on the MWC board and I read it there. My reaction was and is that Benson can't necessarily be believed. Assuming he was being truthful, the only MWC school it could possibly be is UNLV, which has shown since creation of the MWC that by virtue of the modest amount it devotes to football salaries and the sparse amount of football discussion on the UNLV message board that the school has little interest in that sport. Certainly not enough to ever be a consistent bowl qualifier. On that basis, UNLV might as well return to the WAC and I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that could occur. As to the rest of the MWC, the only possible chance might be BYU which, as you mention, might be a good fit for the WAC if the Cougars were to do indy for football. Quite a few people believe that UTEP leaving the WAC for CUSA was a boneheaded move. UTEP is not a geographic fit for 90% of the conference and has absolutely no history or tradition with any of the other schools. It's hard for them to get their fan base excited about a basketball game against UAB or a football game against Tulane. They have Houston and Rice in their division, but it's anybody's guess how much longer Houston will hang around, and Rice doesn't bring much to the table. It's a similar situation to when NMSU was in the Sun Belt. We just couldn't get anybody excited for a home basketball game against New Orleans or Middle Tennessee, or a home football game against Arkansas State, and the travel schedule was brutal with the team having to go to the deep south all the time. That being said, I wouldn't be half surprised if UTEP was the unspecified "former WAC member." Their administration will have to get over themselves first though. It has long been believed that UTEP was the school that kept NMSU out of the WAC in the first place, going back 12 or 13 years ago when the Big West dropped football and NMSU was looking for a new home. There's no reason why they shouldn't be in the same conference. The schools are 40 miles apart for crying out loud, and they already play each other every year in football and twice a year in basketball. I wouldn't mind having UNLV either. They would be a better fit for the WAC in football, and it would be fun to re-kindle the UNLV/NMSU rivalry from the Big West days. BYU would be interesting but I think that's the most far fetched scenario of the three.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2010 10:14:50 GMT -8
Quite a few people believe that UTEP leaving the WAC for CUSA was a boneheaded move. UTEP is not a geographic fit for 90% of the conference and has absolutely no history or tradition with any of the other schools. My guess would be that El Armpit is so far removed from modern civilization that they thought TCU, Louisville, Cincinnati and USF were still in CUSA and it was too late to go back once they found out different. In all sincerity, the UTEP fans who have ventured into the MWC board have been the most clueless doofuses ever. They constantly try to convince themselves that the likes of Rice, SMU and Tulsa are their true rivals. As you say, NMSU is a heckuva lot closer. However, UTEP's biggest problem is similar to SDSU's. We Aztecs often say our location is a cul-de-sac which requires significant travel regardless of what conference we're a member of. (Well, with the exception of the Pac-10 but Cal and UCLA will never let us in.)
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Aug 13, 2010 15:25:19 GMT -8
Quite a few people believe that UTEP leaving the WAC for CUSA was a boneheaded move. UTEP is not a geographic fit for 90% of the conference and has absolutely no history or tradition with any of the other schools. My guess would be that El Armpit is so far removed from modern civilization that they thought TCU, Louisville, Cincinnati and USF were still in CUSA and it was too late to go back once they found out different. In all sincerity, the UTEP fans who have ventured into the MWC board have been the most clueless doofuses ever. They constantly try to convince themselves that the likes of Rice, SMU and Tulsa are their true rivals. As you say, NMSU is a heckuva lot closer. However, UTEP's biggest problem is similar to SDSU's. We Aztecs often say our location is a cul-de-sac which requires significant travel regardless of what conference we're a member of. (Well, with the exception of the Pac-10 but Cal and UCLA will never let us in.) When we build a strong program like Utah did, THEN we can talk about moving up in conference.
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Post by aztecwin on Aug 18, 2010 21:36:05 GMT -8
Things sure changed today!
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Post by panammaniac on Aug 23, 2010 11:26:30 GMT -8
In all sincerity, the UTEP fans who have ventured into the MWC board have been the most clueless doofuses ever. They constantly try to convince themselves that the likes of Rice, SMU and Tulsa are their true rivals. As you say, NMSU is a heckuva lot closer. However, UTEP's biggest problem is similar to SDSU's. We Aztecs often say our location is a cul-de-sac which requires significant travel regardless of what conference we're a member of. (Well, with the exception of the Pac-10 but Cal and UCLA will never let us in.) I'm glad you and I view UTEP the same way. In reality, the only ones who view UTEP as rivals are NMSU and UNM. That's a true 3-way rivalry that has been around forever. They all play each other every year in every sport, and twice a year in basketball. For all three schools, those are the only guaranteed sellouts or near-sellouts every year (I remember a FB game against UTEP during my college years when we packed 40,000+ into our 32,000-seat stadium). Not having the three together in the same conference is ludicrus. As for expansion/realignment, I really don't know what to think anymore, other than this whole mess is far from over. Fans of the remaining WAC schools are in a panic right now over not having a home when it all shakes out. My take is to let the dust settle, and there will be a home for everybody when it does. I don't believe for a second that the Big XII will stay at 10 for very long, or that the Pac 10 and Big 10 will stand pat at 12. I don't think anybody denies that the MWC will get raided again....or will the Big XII eventually implode with the Texas/Oklahoma bloc going to the Pac 16, creating an opportunity for the MWC to grab Kansas and K-State? Who knows...a year ago I wasn't alone in thinking that Colorado and Utah going to the Pac 10 was delusional.
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Post by aztech on Aug 24, 2010 15:01:40 GMT -8
I still question whether BYU will ever be invited to a BCS conference. They carry that stigma of being a controversial school. They are and always have been.
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