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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 9, 2009 17:31:04 GMT -8
Well, he did pretty well, in my opinion. I don't say that he turned the whole game around, but his talk was, overall good.
Of course, he again made statements that are questionable. For instance, he said that nothing in his plan forces anyone to give up his or her insurance. However, the House plan requires that a business must either continue to provide health insurance or pay an 8% of their income. Well, if a company is paying more than 8% of its income, why would it not just dump its plan and force the employees to join the government plan?
Also, Obama said that illegal aliens would not be be covered. He did not, however, explain how that would be accomplished. I believe someone shouted "How" from the audience, but the President declined to answer. Well, how do we know that illegals are going to be turned down by insurance companies, or, more likely, by the govt. plan?
Third, Obama mentioned the problem of tort reform, but did not give any details about how that problem could be alleviated.
Some people will he impressed, but I don't think he really answered the most serious objections that critics have.
AzWm
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Post by aztecwin on Sept 9, 2009 17:52:52 GMT -8
Well, he did pretty well, in my opinion. I don't say that he turned the whole game around, but his talk was, overall good. Of course, he again made statements that are questionable. For instance, he said that nothing in his plan forces anyone to give up his or her insurance. However, the House plan requires that a business must either continue to provide health insurance or pay an 8% of their income. Well, if a company is paying more than 8% of its income, why would it not just dump its plan and force the employees to join the government plan? Also, Obama said that illegal aliens would not be be covered. He did not, however, explain how that would be accomplished. I believe someone shouted "How" from the audience, but the President declined to answer. Well, how do we know that illegals are going to be turned down by insurance companies, or, more likely, by the govt. plan? Third, Obama mentioned the problem of tort reform, but did not give any details about how that problem could be alleviated. Some people will he impressed, but I don't think he really answered the most serious objections that critics have. AzWm How do you shut Illegals out of emergency rooms? Would you want to? Could you have ICE at all emergency rooms to deport them right after treatment and then present a bill to the Mexican government? (or other country) Could you transport people from the emergency room to health care people in Mexico or Canada for treatment? |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 10, 2009 9:52:17 GMT -8
I guess I misheard the shouted remark during Obama's speech. Apparently the Congressman shouted "Liar!" Boy, wait until Pelosi gets done with him!
AzWm
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Sept 10, 2009 10:03:29 GMT -8
I thought it was, overall, a great speech. I also think that he brought up a number of things that are not in the current bills that he wants implemented.
The guy didn't shout "How" he shouted "Liar". Very disrespectful to the Office of the President and to America.
I also disagree with any Democratic plans to include illegals just as I did with Bush's plans. However they can, and do under current law, show up at the ER and obtain treatment. I cannot see them being turned away. The doctors would not allow it as they have all taken the Hippocratic oath.
I actually read a piece from a Conservative economist, can't find it right now, which said that it would be much less expensive to America if illegals were included in a universal preventative care system of some type. Preventative medicine is always less expensive but It is still a reward for breaking the law. Kind of a catch-22.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 10, 2009 10:50:26 GMT -8
I still don't think things add up in terms of money. Obama seems to think that it will be possible to realize economies in the current system and therefore avoid raising taxes. Well, that does not appear to me to be very likely.
Also, he said something about any government plan not getting help from the government and therefore it would not threaten private insurance companies. But what happens if a "public" plan gets into trouble and cannot sustain itself? Do you REALLY think that the pols are going to let it go out of business?
Lots has been said (including by your obedient servant) about how a government insurance plan would destroy the private market. That might indeed happen. But there is another, perhaps equally possible outcome.
That other outcome is the "Post Office effect." The govt. enterprise, be it health insurance or automobiles, may not put private competitors out of business, but may instead essentially fail, with periodic federal bailouts necessary to keep it afloat. And there will be plenty of influential voices (unions, local Congressmen, etc.) who will argue loudly that the noble experiment in the service of social justice simply cannot be allowed to disappear. And, guess what . . . the Congress will hear the call and heed the advice. To the detriment of the taxpayers and the economy as a whole.
AzWm
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Post by davdesid on Sept 10, 2009 14:08:05 GMT -8
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Post by aztecwin on Sept 10, 2009 15:05:39 GMT -8
I guess I misheard the shouted remark during Obama's speech. Apparently the Congressman shouted "Liar!" Boy, wait until Pelosi gets done with him! AzWm I just heard that Pelosi is not going to do anything else but if he had continued he would have been removed. He did shoput "lair" and that is not respectful as it should be, but it was the truth. |
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Sept 14, 2009 8:18:25 GMT -8
I guess I misheard the shouted remark during Obama's speech. Apparently the Congressman shouted "Liar!" Boy, wait until Pelosi gets done with him! AzWm I just heard that Pelosi is not going to do anything else but if he had continued he would have been removed. He did shoput "lair" and that is not respectful as it should be, but it was the truth. NO, it was not the truth. The bills specifically state that federal money will not be spent on healthcare for illegals. However, there was nothing that said they couldn't purchase insurance through the exchange. There also wasn't any language about enforcement. Unless the U.S. implements a national identity card system there will always be problems with enforcement of citizenship. As of right now, there is no law on the books that states that you must carry an ID. That is the problem. Both the right and the left scream bloody murder whenever the idea is raised. |
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Post by aztecwin on Sept 14, 2009 13:27:13 GMT -8
I just heard that Pelosi is not going to do anything else but if he had continued he would have been removed. He did shoput "lair" and that is not respectful as it should be, but it was the truth. NO, it was not the truth. The bills specifically state that federal money will not be spent on healthcare for illegals. However, there was nothing that said they couldn't purchase insurance through the exchange. There also wasn't any language about enforcement. Unless the U.S. implements a national identity card system there will always be problems with enforcement of citizenship. As of right now, there is no law on the books that states that you must carry an ID. That is the problem. Both the right and the left scream bloody murder whenever the idea is raised. Wrong again. I explained it in another thread. We need the amendments. |
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