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Post by aztecmaverick on Jul 25, 2010 17:01:43 GMT -8
No NFL team will go to Los Angeles.
Los Angeles is too valuable as an empty city for the NFL.
Teams use LA as a bargaining tool to get new stadiums in their city.
I am confident that the NFL will block a team's attempt to move there.
Love,
A Rabid Sports Law Student
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 25, 2010 17:29:50 GMT -8
Unconscionable. That's the only word that would be appropriate to use if the City of San Diego were to pony up well over half a billion dollars to help the Spanos family enrich itself even more at the expense of the taxpayers. There is simply no way that public money should be given to this money-grubbing family.
Those people who are so taken with pro football that they are willing to walk the plank in hopes of keeping the Chargers should be ashamed of themselves.
I am a huge fan of college sports, and Aztec football in particular. Still, I would rather see Aztec football take its chances in a post-Charger world rather than have the City pump hundreds of millions of dollars down this rat hole.
The fact is that pro football helps very few people in a city. The vast majority of local folks cannot even afford to go to the games. As for the UT, their sportswriters are incapable of writing an objective piece on this issue. They would throw their grandmothers down a well if that's what it took to keep their rear ends planted in the press box at Charger games.
With the city broke, not one cent should be taken from legitimate city services (streets, sewers, parks, fire and police protection, etc.) to enrich a private company. It would be better (though perhaps still not justifiable from a libertarian point of view) to invest in infrastructure in order to recruit a manufacturing plant that would provide hundreds of jobs year round.
Crony capitalism is alive and well, that's for sure. Let's do our part to stop that noxious enterprise by telling the Spanoses to go to hell if they think they can continue to rape the City of San Diego.
AzWm
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Post by aztecmaverick on Jul 25, 2010 17:33:48 GMT -8
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 25, 2010 17:37:58 GMT -8
I've always believed in a joint partnership w/city. City kicks in the land, Chargers build it and other developments. After sales tax and property tax are paid, city would share in the revenues. The "Q" site....... As I have said before, without a new stadium, the Chargers go. Also going are the Holiday and Poinsetia bowls, any chance for a super bowl. At least the Padres have a stadium. Why would the bowl games go away? They have nothing to do with the Chargers or the NFL. And screw the Super Bowl - the NFL consistently overstates the economic impact and beyond that, uses it as a club to beat NFL cities into submission when their owners want new stadiums. If it comes down to revenue, I'd say expand the Convention Center because 7 or 8 years of ComicCon and other large conventions will bring in way more bucks than one Super Bowl. Your comments seem to be based upon the false assumption that if the Chargers leave, the Q would be immediately torn down and that's not likely for reasons that have been offered on here any number of times. =Bob |
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Post by FULL_MONTY on Jul 25, 2010 17:44:20 GMT -8
Unconscionable. That's the only word that would be appropriate to use if the City of San Diego were to pony up well over half a billion dollars to help the Spanos family enrich itself even more at the expense of the taxpayers. There is simply no way that public money should be given to this money-grubbing family. Those people who are so taken with pro football that they are willing to walk the plank in hopes of keeping the Chargers should be ashamed of themselves. I am a huge fan of college sports, and Aztec football in particular. Still, I would rather see Aztec football take its chances in a post-Charger world rather than have the City pump hundreds of millions of dollars down this rat hole. The fact is that pro football helps very few people in a city. The vast majority of local folks cannot even afford to go to the games. As for the UT, their sportswriters are incapable of writing an objective piece on this issue. They would throw their grandmothers down a well if that's what it took to keep their rear ends planted in the press box at Charger games. With the city broke, not one cent should be taken from legitimate city services (streets, sewers, parks, fire and police protection, etc.) to enrich a private company. It would be better (though perhaps still not justifiable from a libertarian point of view) to invest in infrastructure in order to recruit a manufacturing plant that would provide hundreds of jobs year round. Crony capitalism is alive and well, that's for sure. Let's do our part to stop that noxious enterprise by telling the Spanoses to go to hell if they think they can continue to rape the City of San Diego. AzWm Rank the biggest waste of public funds...... Football Stadium for the Chargers Central Library for the Employment Challenged New City Hall for the fiscally Challenged |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 25, 2010 17:46:28 GMT -8
The usual nonsense that's always based upon what the NFL claims are "accurate" economic impact numbers. The economic impact numbers always have the same assumption - they don't consider the impact of the tourists that would be here during Super Bowl week if it weren't held in whatever City is hosting the event. Basically, the assumption is based upon all hotel rooms being empty. This analysis is rather old, but it's pretty much what economists not affiliated with the NFL or NFL city Chambers of Commerce have to say: tinyurl.com/2fda7y2=Bob |
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Post by monty on Jul 25, 2010 18:20:23 GMT -8
50k to 75k come to town, a number of them from California, stay in a hotel for a few nights, maybe get a rent a car, buy 6-8 meals --- that is the economic impact and more importantly, did the amount of tourists increase, decrease or stay the same during the super bowls, were the costs of things like hotels and rental cars up, down, the same? This isn't Siberia, tons of people vacation in san diego in the weekends of january and February.
100 thousand people would have to come that wouldn't normally come and drop 5k --- does that seem even close to likely?
Here come the next round, so I'll just answer now:
Outside of a locally owned restaurant, liquor store or the like, the economic impact is to big corporations, so that money isn't recycled into the community - as they include in these absurd figures - it escapes to the headquarters of Hilton and Enterprise,
Free advertising? Sure, but, again, San Diego is in the top 3 or 5 in hotel occupancy rates, often number one.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 25, 2010 18:24:05 GMT -8
Unconscionable. That's the only word that would be appropriate to use if the City of San Diego were to pony up well over half a billion dollars to help the Spanos family enrich itself even more at the expense of the taxpayers. There is simply no way that public money should be given to this money-grubbing family. Those people who are so taken with pro football that they are willing to walk the plank in hopes of keeping the Chargers should be ashamed of themselves. I am a huge fan of college sports, and Aztec football in particular. Still, I would rather see Aztec football take its chances in a post-Charger world rather than have the City pump hundreds of millions of dollars down this rat hole. The fact is that pro football helps very few people in a city. The vast majority of local folks cannot even afford to go to the games. As for the UT, their sportswriters are incapable of writing an objective piece on this issue. They would throw their grandmothers down a well if that's what it took to keep their rear ends planted in the press box at Charger games. With the city broke, not one cent should be taken from legitimate city services (streets, sewers, parks, fire and police protection, etc.) to enrich a private company. It would be better (though perhaps still not justifiable from a libertarian point of view) to invest in infrastructure in order to recruit a manufacturing plant that would provide hundreds of jobs year round. Crony capitalism is alive and well, that's for sure. Let's do our part to stop that noxious enterprise by telling the Spanoses to go to hell if they think they can continue to rape the City of San Diego. AzWm Rank the biggest waste of public funds...... Football Stadium for the Chargers Central Library for the Employment Challenged New City Hall for the fiscally Challenged Have you been to the existing central library lately? The proposal for a new library may or may not make sense, of course. I hope you are not suggesting that the city would be better off with a new stadium than a new library! I am not familiar with the proposal for a new city hall. Perhaps the city does not need a new one. Still, a new stadium undoubtedly would cost much more and would be of much lesser value to the city. It might be of value to the well-heeled minority who inhabit the upper reaches of San Diego society, of course, and to the reporters at the UT and the local TV stations. I'm not too concerned about any of the aforementioned citizens. If they want a new Charger stadium, let them take up a collection to help the Spaoses buy land and build their own super palace! AzWm |
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Post by monty on Jul 25, 2010 18:25:56 GMT -8
Rank the biggest waste of public funds...... Football Stadium for the Chargers Central Library for the Employment Challenged New City Hall for the fiscally Challenged Have you been to the existing central library lately? The proposal for a new library may or may not make sense, of course. I hope you are not suggesting that the city would be better off with a new stadium than a new library! I am not familiar with the proposal for a new city hall. Perhaps the city does not need a new one. Still, a new stadium undoubtedly would cost much more and would be of much lesser value to the city. It might be of value to the well-heeled minority who inhabit the upper reaches of San Diego society, of course, and to the reporters at the UT and the local TV stations. I'm not too concerned about any of the aforementioned citizens. If they want a new Charger stadium, let them take up a collection to help the Spaoses buy land and build their own super palace! AzWm This world needs more libraries, less stadiums, and more spartan city halls. |
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Post by mattpohl on Jul 25, 2010 18:26:21 GMT -8
With the possible exceptions of Reagan, Goldwater and Wallace, I've been voting like that for 50 years. Hang in there, Matt [quote In the latter regard, this year's governor's race will be just one more in which I will be voting not for someone I really want to see elected, but rather for the lesser of two evils. |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 25, 2010 18:27:38 GMT -8
Unconscionable. That's the only word that would be appropriate to use if the City of San Diego were to pony up well over half a billion dollars to help the Spanos family enrich itself even more at the expense of the taxpayers. There is simply no way that public money should be given to this money-grubbing family. Those people who are so taken with pro football that they are willing to walk the plank in hopes of keeping the Chargers should be ashamed of themselves. I am a huge fan of college sports, and Aztec football in particular. Still, I would rather see Aztec football take its chances in a post-Charger world rather than have the City pump hundreds of millions of dollars down this rat hole. The fact is that pro football helps very few people in a city. The vast majority of local folks cannot even afford to go to the games. As for the UT, their sportswriters are incapable of writing an objective piece on this issue. They would throw their grandmothers down a well if that's what it took to keep their rear ends planted in the press box at Charger games. With the city broke, not one cent should be taken from legitimate city services (streets, sewers, parks, fire and police protection, etc.) to enrich a private company. It would be better (though perhaps still not justifiable from a libertarian point of view) to invest in infrastructure in order to recruit a manufacturing plant that would provide hundreds of jobs year round. Crony capitalism is alive and well, that's for sure. Let's do our part to stop that noxious enterprise by telling the Spanoses to go to hell if they think they can continue to rape the City of San Diego. AzWm Rank the biggest waste of public funds...... Football Stadium for the Chargers Central Library for the Employment Challenged New City Hall for the fiscally Challenged Central libraries define a real city. Most likely you live in the burbs and think the world revolves around your community library, but a central library is important. Ever spent any time at all in our current city hall? That place is a total wreck (and I state that as someone who worked in an old GenDyn warehouse at County Planning for 10 years). The current city hall sucks the root big time. I don't see a reason to build some sort of high rise, as has been proposed, but something better than what now exists is needed. Personally, I'd like to see a building along the lines of the County Administration Building instead of just another faceless, anonymous piece of junk high rise, but that's design, not policy. =Bob |
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Post by aztecmaverick on Jul 25, 2010 18:30:14 GMT -8
50k to 75k come to town, a number of them from California, stay in a hotel for a few nights, maybe get a rent a car, buy 6-8 meals --- that is the economic impact and more importantly, did the amount of tourists increase, decrease or stay the same during the super bowls, were the costs of things like hotels and rental cars up, down, the same? This isn't Siberia, tons of people vacation in san diego in the weekends of january and February. 100 thousand people would have to come that wouldn't normally come and drop 5k --- does that seem even close to likely? Here come the next round, so I'll just answer now: Outside of a locally owned restaurant, liquor store or the like, the economic impact is to big corporations, so that money isn't recycled into the community - as they include in these absurd figures - it escapes to the headquarters of Hilton and Enterprise, Free advertising? Sure, but, again, San Diego is in the top 3 or 5 in hotel occupancy rates, often number one. If 50,000 people came to town (your estimate) and spent $10, there is your 500,000. Importantly, the Super Bowl is in the winter months which doesn't get AS MUCH tourism. Why is it bad that the big corporation gets much of the money? they're the ones doing all of the hiring anyways... Also, you can't just look at the initial dollar spent. You look at the dollar and how it multiplies through the system... 1 dollar for you also means 1 dollar to the store which means 1 dollar to another worker. |
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Post by monty on Jul 25, 2010 18:32:19 GMT -8
With the possible exceptions of Reagan, Goldwater and Wallace, I've been voting like that for 50 years. Hang in there, Matt [quote In the latter regard, this year's governor's race will be just one more in which I will be voting not for someone I really want to see elected, but rather for the lesser of two evils. Good god, how evil does someone have to be to not even be considered in the conversation of lesser of two evils with a guy who said: "segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever" gives hang in there a new ring |
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Post by mattpohl on Jul 25, 2010 18:45:36 GMT -8
Despite the rhetoric, it's obvious to me that you have never researched the advances made by blacks under the Wallace administrations. If you had, you wouldn't reduce the man to one six word quote. Hang in there, Matt With the possible exceptions of Reagan, Goldwater and Wallace, I've been voting like that for 50 years. Hang in there, Matt Good god, how evil does someone have to be to not even be considered in the conversation of lesser of two evils with a guy who said: "segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever" gives hang in there a new ring |
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Post by SD Johnny on Jul 25, 2010 18:48:34 GMT -8
If 50,000 people came to town (your estimate) and spent $10, there is your 500,000. $500,000?...You and the NFL has said $500 MILLION. That means 50,000 people (that wouldn't have been in SD that week anyway) would need to spend $10,000 per person. Are you starting to realize how foolish that number is? |
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Post by Azthetic on Jul 25, 2010 19:07:26 GMT -8
Roughly speaking, NFL teams are worth about $1 billion and generate $225 million per year each.
The Redskins have the highest average operating income over the past 5 years at $77 million, but they generate $345 million per year, so they can afford to spend more. They are also worth $1.55 billion.
That means teams in the middle of the pack and lower on the revenue scale like the Chargers are making AT LEAST $148 million profit per year.
They aren't stupid. If someone else is going to pay their way, then they'll take it. It's business and it's common sense.
If the Chargers were able to step out and generate additional revenue like the Houston Texans with great stadium naming rights deal ($300 million overall) or have the marketing savvy of the Cowboys who brought NBA All Star Game, NCAA Final Four, and this coming Super Bowl to their stadium, then think of the revenue possibilities. Then, throw in all of the other events like concerts, conventions, other sporting events, etc. and you will have a significant revenue stream to work with.
There's plenty of money to be made for everyone.
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 25, 2010 19:11:03 GMT -8
With the possible exceptions of Reagan, Goldwater and Wallace, I've been voting like that for 50 years. Hang in there, Matt Good god, how evil does someone have to be to not even be considered in the conversation of lesser of two evils with a guy who said: "segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever" gives hang in there a new ring Wallace ran four times. It could be that at least one of those times he was the least odious of the choices. We have a lot of folks who are not one issue voters. |
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Post by FULL_MONTY on Jul 25, 2010 19:47:15 GMT -8
Rank the biggest waste of public funds...... Football Stadium for the Chargers Central Library for the Employment Challenged New City Hall for the fiscally Challenged Have you been to the existing central library lately? The proposal for a new library may or may not make sense, of course. I hope you are not suggesting that the city would be better off with a new stadium than a new library! I am not familiar with the proposal for a new city hall. Perhaps the city does not need a new one. Still, a new stadium undoubtedly would cost much more and would be of much lesser value to the city. It might be of value to the well-heeled minority who inhabit the upper reaches of San Diego society, of course, and to the reporters at the UT and the local TV stations. I'm not too concerned about any of the aforementioned citizens. If they want a new Charger stadium, let them take up a collection to help the Spaoses buy land and build their own super palace! AzWm The City needs none of the 3. |
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Post by FULL_MONTY on Jul 25, 2010 19:48:41 GMT -8
Have you been to the existing central library lately? The proposal for a new library may or may not make sense, of course. I hope you are not suggesting that the city would be better off with a new stadium than a new library! I am not familiar with the proposal for a new city hall. Perhaps the city does not need a new one. Still, a new stadium undoubtedly would cost much more and would be of much lesser value to the city. It might be of value to the well-heeled minority who inhabit the upper reaches of San Diego society, of course, and to the reporters at the UT and the local TV stations. I'm not too concerned about any of the aforementioned citizens. If they want a new Charger stadium, let them take up a collection to help the Spaoses buy land and build their own super palace! AzWm This world needs more libraries, less stadiums, and more spartan city halls. This is 2010 not 1910, libraries with their stacks of books is the least efficient ways to disseminate information. Need Computer labs and meeting space, not libraries. |
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Post by FULL_MONTY on Jul 25, 2010 20:01:38 GMT -8
Rank the biggest waste of public funds...... Football Stadium for the Chargers Central Library for the Employment Challenged New City Hall for the fiscally Challenged Central libraries define a real city. Most likely you live in the burbs and think the world revolves around your community library, but a central library is important. Ever spent any time at all in our current city hall? That place is a total wreck (and I state that as someone who worked in an old GenDyn warehouse at County Planning for 10 years). The current city hall sucks the root big time. I don't see a reason to build some sort of high rise, as has been proposed, but something better than what now exists is needed. Personally, I'd like to see a building along the lines of the County Administration Building instead of just another faceless, anonymous piece of junk high rise, but that's design, not policy. =Bob Live in the city proper, but nice to know how you feel about people in the burbs. Libraries define Cities? Maybe Alexandria, but most cities are defined by the people and the Industry. Like - San Diego is a Navy Town or a Tourist Town. No one says, SD is a piss yard because their central library has more bums that smell like urine than any other city. City Hall may well need to be updated, but my bs radar goes off when I hear things like. We need to spend the $400M to save money. How do they come to this conclusion, they use the Spanos shuffle. The deferred maintenance is so high, it would save the city money to spend $400M today. This is 2010 and not 1910, there is no need to have book stack after book stack and house them in the highest priced rent areas. Most people that go the library, go there for events or to use the computer. So why not cater to the demand, than build "legacy" building with an intended purpose so out of date? I mean come on, they are going to lease out space to school as well. Hope the kids like the smell of urine, because those bums are going to show up in force. The Stadium is the worst of them all. JMO. |
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