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Post by Yoda on Jul 18, 2010 15:51:21 GMT -8
One of the more liberal senators that CA ever had was Alan Cranston, who served from 1977 to 1991 and who pushed through all sorts of liberal legislation. What most conservatives are either too young to know or have chosen to forget is that he would never have been elected to the US Senate but for the extremist efforts of the Republican right. The incumbent was a moderate Republican -- Tom Kuchel. He wasn't extremist enough, however, so the right threw him out in the primary and nominated instead the extreme right's own Max Rafferty -- the Blue Max. The problem was, if you are so extreme to be beloved by the extreme right, then you are not electable -- you lose the center. And so the extreme right, in being extreme, caused the election of perhaps the most powerfully liberal CA Senator in history. And so it is in Florida in 2010. Charlie Crist was a centrist and that is not acceptable to the extreme right. He trailed in primary polls by 30 points. So he dropped out and is running as an Independent. It is far from over but for now he leads in the polls. Granted, that's not an exact repeat of history -- but that's not the extremists fault; whether he wins or (very doubtful) a Democrat wins, the Republican right -- by it's own extremism -- will have caused the loss of a Republican Senate seat. And if Crist pulls it off, it would seem that he, along with MA's Brown, will be two Republicans who can't be counted on by the right to be ideological knee-jerk obstructionists. Maybe I won't have to retire to another country after all... www.newsweek.com/2010/07/19/the-resurrection-of-crist.htmlYoda out... |
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Post by davdesid on Jul 18, 2010 15:56:50 GMT -8
One of the more liberal senators that CA ever had was Alan Cranston, who served from 1977 to 1991 and who pushed through all sorts of liberal legislation. What most conservatives are either too young to know or have chosen to forget is that he would never have been elected to the US Senate but for the extremist efforts of the Republican right. The incumbent was a moderate Republican -- Tom Kuchel. He wasn't extremist enough, however, so the right threw him out in the primary and nominated instead the extreme right's own Max Rafferty -- the Blue Max. The problem was, if you are so extreme to be beloved by the extreme right, then you are not electable -- you lose the center. And so the extreme right, in being extreme, caused the election of perhaps the most powerfully liberal CA Senator in history. And so it is in Florida in 2010. Charlie Crist was a centrist and that is not acceptable to the extreme right. He trailed in primary polls by 30 points. So he dropped out and is running as an Independent. It is far from over but for now he leads in the polls. Granted, that's not an exact repeat of history -- but that's not the extremists fault; whether he wins or (very doubtful) a Democrat wins, the Republican right -- by it's own extremism -- will have caused the loss of a Republican Senate seat. And if Crist pulls it off, it would seem that he, along with MA's Brown, will be two Republicans who can't be counted on by the right to be ideological knee-jerk obstructionists. Maybe I won't have to retire to another country after all... www.newsweek.com/2010/07/19/the-resurrection-of-crist.htmlYoda out... Hmmm.... The pejorative "extreme/extremists" flogged ten times in one post... Keep it up YoYo. The more you do, the more pathetic it becomes in its impotence. P.S. If you end up having to retire to another country, good luck, and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. And be sure to take your spawn with you. www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2010/election_2010_senate_elections/florida/election_2010_florida_senate |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jul 18, 2010 16:46:46 GMT -8
Alan Cranston was one of the great Senators of this great country. I did not always agree with him, but I really admired him.
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Post by Yoda on Jul 18, 2010 17:08:50 GMT -8
Hmmm.... The pejorative "extreme/extremists" flogged ten times in one post... Keep it up YoYo. The more you do, the more pathetic it becomes in its impotence. P.S. If you end up having to retire to another country, good luck, and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. And be sure to take your spawn with you. You may not like the term or may not like being characterized as an extremist, but that doesn't make the term impotent or even improper. And to those in the center, those on the edges -- no matter how passionate their beliefs -- can only be characterized as extremists. In fact, the more passionate, the more ideologue, the more certain they are of the rightness of their beliefs, the more extreme they tend to be. If it makes you feel any better, I don't much like being called fat but, well, that shoe fits too. Yoda out... |
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Post by davdesid on Jul 18, 2010 17:18:36 GMT -8
Hmmm.... The pejorative "extreme/extremists" flogged ten times in one post... Keep it up YoYo. The more you do, the more pathetic it becomes in its impotence. P.S. If you end up having to retire to another country, good luck, and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. And be sure to take your spawn with you. You may not like the term or may not like being characterized as an extremist, but that doesn't make the term impotent or even improper. And to those in the center, those on the edges -- no matter how passionate their beliefs -- can only be characterized as extremists. In fact, the more passionate, the more ideologue, the more certain they are of the rightness of their beliefs, the more extreme they tend to be. If it makes you feel any better, I don't much like being called fat but, well, that shoe fits too. Yoda out... You seem to be pretty certain in the "rightness" your beliefs.... ...I'm not calling you an "extremist", though. I don't think I made any reference to your weight, but if you are a Republican, I guess you must be a fat-ass. Just change your registration, and you will be able to claim you are svelt and get away with it.  |
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Post by Yoda on Jul 18, 2010 17:56:45 GMT -8
You seem to be pretty certain in the "rightness" your beliefs.... ...I'm not calling you an "extremist", though. I don't think I made any reference to your weight, but if you are a Republican, I guess you must be a fat-ass. Just change your registration, and you will be able to claim you are svelt and get away with it. I've always described myself as "radically moderate" so I suppose I am an "extremist" as respects my centrist-ism -- or something like that. No, you made no reference to my weight. I was just pointing out that not liking a characterization doesn't make that characterization incorrect -- and making myself the, um, butt of the joke in the process. I didn't read that thread on Fat Ass Republicans as, by its title, it didn't look very promising vis a vis meaningful content. I don't read a lot of threads on this board for the same reason. The problem isn't so much the thread but the fact that I find myself responding no matter how inane the topic and then regretting it later. But as for my party affiliation, I tend to re-register a lot, depending on who has the most interesting primary elections. I've been a Democrat who voted for 11 Republicans and 1 Democrat and I've been a Republican who voted for 11 Democrats and 1 Republican. I'm kind of anti-party anyway. In my view, participating in a Senate Democratic Caucus or a Senate Republican Caucus is damn near an act of treason. It puts party interests ahead of national interests -- although I understand that to partisans, it merely equates them. I just don't happen to agree. Yoda out... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2010 18:04:20 GMT -8
The Socialist....errr....,"Democrat" is polling sub-Mendoza so....it's a win for Democracy and common sense no matter if Rubio or Crist takes the prize.
Not to worry davidsid what we are witnessing is the extreme left going through the denial stage of grieving process. I'm sure it will take them quite a while to process the utter rejection of extreme leftism the voting public is about to visit upon them and their bankrupt, venal and corrupt ideals.
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jul 18, 2010 19:40:43 GMT -8
Socialism is the wave of the future. The low IQ buffoons who oppose this movement are lost to the ages and their selves.
Might as well get with the program.
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Post by Yoda on Jul 18, 2010 20:43:44 GMT -8
The Socialist....errr....,"Democrat" is polling sub-Mendoza so....it's a win for Democracy and common sense no matter if Rubio or Crist takes the prize. Typical right wing extremist crap -- let's equate Democrats with Socialists. Mis-define the terms, scare people, and isolate anyone who isn't on the right. I have no idea whether or not the Florida Democratic candidates are socialists -- though I expect not -- or perhaps just "liberal". But you guys toss the "socialist" tag around a lot. Obama is not a socialist, for example. Hell, he's got more trouble with the liberals in his own party than he does with the conservatives. You see, he's not nearly liberal enough for his left wing. Yoda out... __________________________________ ... |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jul 19, 2010 8:25:46 GMT -8
The Socialist....errr....,"Democrat" is polling sub-Mendoza so....it's a win for Democracy and common sense no matter if Rubio or Crist takes the prize. - let's equate Democrats with Socialists. Mis-define the terms, scare people, and isolate anyone who isn't on the right. I have no idea whether or not the Florida Democratic candidates are socialists -- though I expect not -- or perhaps just "liberal". But you guys toss the "socialist" tag around a lot. Obama is not a socialist, for example. Hell, he's got more trouble with the liberals in his own party than he does with the conservatives. You see, he's not nearly liberal enough for his left wing. Yoda out... __________________________________ ... I tend to think of it as "Typical Right Wing Bluster." |
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Post by davdesid on Jul 19, 2010 12:45:32 GMT -8
You seem to be pretty certain in the "rightness" your beliefs.... ...I'm not calling you an "extremist", though. I don't think I made any reference to your weight, but if you are a Republican, I guess you must be a fat-ass. Just change your registration, and you will be able to claim you are svelt and get away with it. I've always described myself as "radically moderate" so I suppose I am an "extremist" as respects my centrist-ism -- or something like that. No, you made no reference to my weight. I was just pointing out that not liking a characterization doesn't make that characterization incorrect -- and making myself the, um, butt of the joke in the process. I didn't read that thread on Fat Ass Republicans as, by its title, it didn't look very promising vis a vis meaningful content. I don't read a lot of threads on this board for the same reason. The problem isn't so much the thread but the fact that I find myself responding no matter how inane the topic and then regretting it later. But as for my party affiliation, I tend to re-register a lot, depending on who has the most interesting primary elections. I've been a Democrat who voted for 11 Republicans and 1 Democrat and I've been a Republican who voted for 11 Democrats and 1 Republican. I'm kind of anti-party anyway. In my view, participating in a Senate Democratic Caucus or a Senate Republican Caucus is damn near an act of treason. It puts party interests ahead of national interests -- although I understand that to partisans, it merely equates them. I just don't happen to agree. Yoda out... Well, I agree with your last paragraph, for sure. You should read this guy's article. It's long, so maybe download and read it offline. spectator.org/archives/2010/07/16/americas-ruling-class-and-the/printBoth parties constitute the ruling class. But right now, the definition of moderate seems to be anyone who the Democrats know they can roll, and an extremist is anyone they know they can't. |
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Post by davdesid on Jul 19, 2010 13:18:45 GMT -8
Alan Cranston was one of the great Senators of this great country. I did not always agree with him, but I really admired him. IMO, the last "great" Democrat Senator from California was Clair Engle. The man was dying of brain cancer and had to be brought onto the Senate floor to vote to break the filibuster on the '64 civil rights bill led by none other than the lionized Exalted Cyclops of the KKK, "Sheets" Byrd. Engle couldn't even speak, but he raised his hand in the affirmative. Cranston, on the other hand, was a slimy weasel who was the most egregious by far of the Keating Five. That scandal finally put him out to pasture. |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jul 19, 2010 14:12:21 GMT -8
Alan Cranston was one of the great Senators of this great country. I did not always agree with him, but I really admired him. IMO, the last "great" Democrat Senator from California was Clair Engle. The man was dying of brain cancer and had to be brought onto the Senate floor to vote to break the filibuster on the '64 civil rights bill led by none other than the lionized Exalted Cyclops of the KKK, "Sheets" Byrd. Engle couldn't even speak, but he raised his hand in the affirmative. Cranston, on the other hand, was a slimy weasel who was the most egregious by far of the Keating Five. That scandal finally put him out to pasture. IIRC, he succumbed to asshole cancer. Fits. As a Born Again Liberal, I guess I am obligated to defend Cranston. Of course, all I can say is that money buys political favors in this country. Keating and his Lincoln savings are on the edge of my memory. At least I think I spelled his name right. Let's see, John McCain was part of the Keating Five. So was John Glenn. If I remember right they were admonished for having taken money from Lincoln Savings via Keating for campaign contributions and funds for voter registration projects. Keating then asked for help in getting regulators to back off when there was a economic downturn and Savings and Loans across the nation were in obvious trouble. The housing industry had nearly a fifty percent collapse in new construction. That, of course, hit the savings and loans quite seriously. Boy does that sound familiar. Just like today, regulators can close you down now or they can close you down later, but if the downturn leaves your bank or savings and loan in trouble, they will get to you eventually. We are presently shutting down four or five banks a week. (six last week). Yes, congressmen should not take campaign contributions and funds for special projects and obviously should not try to influence "processes" for the contributors, BUT it goes on all of the time and has not stopped to this day as you are well aware. The entire campaign contribution system is corrupt. Ask the state of Illinois about their governor. Alan was a good man who granted a favor at the wrong time and got his hand slapped. McCain went on to run for President twice. As far as I know, the scandal did not really hurt him. He was sort of like a Teflon Don. |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jul 19, 2010 14:28:15 GMT -8
Oh, with Alan, I think it was prostate cancer, not asshole cancer. Of course, if prostate cancer is going to kill you, it usually spreads to your abdomen.
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Post by uwaztec on Jul 19, 2010 14:29:34 GMT -8
Alan Cranston was one of the great Senators of this great country. I did not always agree with him, but I really admired him. IMO, the last "great" Democrat Senator from California was Clair Engle. The man was dying of brain cancer and had to be brought onto the Senate floor to vote to break the filibuster on the '64 civil rights bill led by none other than the lionized Exalted Cyclops of the KKK, "Sheets" Byrd. Engle couldn't even speak, but he raised his hand in the affirmative. Cranston, on the other hand, was a slimy weasel who was the most egregious by far of the Keating Five. That scandal finally put him out to pasture. IIRC, he succumbed to asshole cancer. Fits. Sid, I think you are a good poster on here and I mostly enjoy reading what you have to say. I thought Cranston was a decent guy. Since I was a track guy, I followed his career a bit outside of politics. He ran the 100 meters in the seniors track circuit for a few years and was very competitive. My point is that you probably don't want to say stuff about people like you did in your last sentence.... bad karma. |
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Post by davdesid on Jul 19, 2010 14:49:25 GMT -8
Oh, with Alan, I think it was prostate cancer, not asshole cancer. Of course, if prostate cancer is going to kill you, it usually spreads to your abdomen. |
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Post by davdesid on Jul 19, 2010 15:14:03 GMT -8
IMO, the last "great" Democrat Senator from California was Clair Engle. The man was dying of brain cancer and had to be brought onto the Senate floor to vote to break the filibuster on the '64 civil rights bill led by none other than the lionized Exalted Cyclops of the KKK, "Sheets" Byrd. Engle couldn't even speak, but he raised his hand in the affirmative. Cranston, on the other hand, was a slimy weasel who was the most egregious by far of the Keating Five. That scandal finally put him out to pasture. IIRC, he succumbed to asshole cancer. Fits. Sid, I think you are a good poster on here and I mostly enjoy reading what you have to say. I thought Cranston was a decent guy. Since I was a track guy, I followed his career a bit outside of politics. He ran the 100 meters in the seniors track circuit for a few years and was very competitive. My point is that you probably don't want to say stuff about people like you did in your last sentence.... bad karma. I thought Jesse Ventura was a decent guy. His career (a bit outside of politics) was admirable... Navy SEAL and all. He's still an idiot. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 19, 2010 20:07:32 GMT -8
Yoda, your original post has merit. But here's a question. What you say about a GOP candidate being too far to the right to win does not seem to apply to liberal candidates. I wonder whether you can name a Democratic candidate who was so liberal that he lost. I refer to candidates for statewide office.
Regarding the Florida senate race, I wonder what Crist will do if he wins election. Will he caucus with the Republicans as independent Liberman does with the Dems? I suppose he would, but it strikes me that he might just go with the Dems if doing so keeps that party in power. The Dems could offer Crist a really juicy assignment as a bribe.
AzWm
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Post by Yoda on Jul 19, 2010 20:53:42 GMT -8
Yoda, your original post has merit. But here's a question. What you say about a GOP candidate being too far to the right to win does not seem to apply to liberal candidates. I wonder whether you can name a Democratic candidate who was so liberal that he lost. I refer to candidates for statewide office. Regarding the Florida senate race, I wonder what Crist will do if he wins election. Will he caucus with the Republicans as independent Liberman does with the Dems? I suppose he would, but it strikes me that he might just go with the Dems if doing so keeps that party in power. The Dems could offer Crist a really juicy assignment as a bribe. AzWm Off the top of my head, I can't think of a comparable situation on the left. Could be my faulty memory. Could be that the far right has a much stronger hold on the Republicans than the far left has on the Democrats. Could be that the left isn't nearly as well organized or proactive as the right. Probably a little of all of that. That's not to say that the left is any less extreme than the right. They've nominated some pretty liberal people and have gone down in flames because of it -- the ability to lose the middle is not limited to the right. I just don't recall a situation where it cost them their own seat. As far as Crist goes, I'm not sure I'd use the word bribe. There's a lot of mutual back scratching that goes on in DC and I'm sure that both parties will line up to court him. Yoda out... |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 20, 2010 10:30:48 GMT -8
Yoda, your original post has merit. But here's a question. What you say about a GOP candidate being too far to the right to win does not seem to apply to liberal candidates. I wonder whether you can name a Democratic candidate who was so liberal that he lost. I refer to candidates for statewide office. Regarding the Florida senate race, I wonder what Crist will do if he wins election. Will he caucus with the Republicans as independent Liberman does with the Dems? I suppose he would, but it strikes me that he might just go with the Dems if doing so keeps that party in power. The Dems could offer Crist a really juicy assignment as a bribe. AzWm . . . . . . . As far as Crist goes, I'm not sure I'd use the word bribe. There's a lot of mutual back scratching that goes on in DC and I'm sure that both parties will line up to court him. Yoda out... No doubt. If Crist wins, there will be lots of wheeling and dealing. AzWm |
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