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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 10, 2010 18:24:14 GMT -8
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 11, 2010 9:59:15 GMT -8
Jonah Goldberg presents a pretty interesting article. I note that he says one of the things that I say in most complicated issues. That is that you can not know all the variables to a complex equation like the environment or the economy.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 11, 2010 10:07:17 GMT -8
Jonah Goldberg presents a pretty interesting article. I note that he says one of the things that I say in most complicated issues. That is that you can not know all the variables to a complex equation like the environment or the economy. And therein lies the danger is being ruled . . uh, I mean governed. . . by people who are totally convinced that they know what's best and have little or no concern for unanticipated consequences. I would prefer to have a government made up of people who are just a bit unsure of themselves. People who are not filled with the zeal that seems to afflict those who never wonder whether, just maybe, decisions should be left up to the individual citizens rather than dictated by the government. AzWm |
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 11, 2010 10:36:26 GMT -8
Jonah Goldberg presents a pretty interesting article. I note that he says one of the things that I say in most complicated issues. That is that you can not know all the variables to a complex equation like the environment or the economy. And therein lies the danger is being ruled . . uh, I mean governed. . . by people who are totally convinced that they know what's best and have little or no concern for unanticipated consequences. I would prefer to have a government made up of people who are just a bit unsure of themselves. People who are not filled with the zeal that seems to afflict those who never wonder whether, just maybe, decisions should be left up to the individual citizens rather than dictated by the government. AzWm Every time I hear the word "Comprehensive" as it pertains to law making and law makers, I cringe. Things should be done piece meal and then see what happens before complicating it with to many changes to which you can not know the effect. |
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Post by monty on Jul 11, 2010 13:41:21 GMT -8
Jonah Goldberg presents a pretty interesting article. I note that he says one of the things that I say in most complicated issues. That is that you can not know all the variables to a complex equation like the environment or the economy. And therein lies the danger is being ruled . . uh, I mean governed. . . by people who are totally convinced that they know what's best and have little or no concern for unanticipated consequences. I would prefer to have a government made up of people who are just a bit unsure of themselves. People who are not filled with the zeal that seems to afflict those who never wonder whether, just maybe, decisions should be left up to the individual citizens rather than dictated by the government. AzWm I disagree, I want leaders who are commanded by God on how to govern. |
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Post by davdesid on Jul 11, 2010 14:26:22 GMT -8
Jonah Goldberg presents a pretty interesting article. I note that he says one of the things that I say in most complicated issues. That is that you can not know all the variables to a complex equation like the environment or the economy. And therein lies the danger is being ruled . . uh, I mean governed. . . by people who are totally convinced that they know what's best and have little or no concern for unanticipated consequences. I would prefer to have a government made up of people who are just a bit unsure of themselves. People who are not filled with the zeal that seems to afflict those who never wonder whether, just maybe, decisions should be left up to the individual citizens rather than dictated by the government. AzWm Yup. Even the libs will raise hell when it's their ox being gored: www.aztecmesa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=misc&action=display&thread=1419 |
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Post by uwaztec on Jul 11, 2010 15:03:21 GMT -8
Jonah Goldberg presents a pretty interesting article. I note that he says one of the things that I say in most complicated issues. That is that you can not know all the variables to a complex equation like the environment or the economy. And therein lies the danger is being ruled . . uh, I mean governed. . . by people who are totally convinced that they know what's best and have little or no concern for unanticipated consequences. I would prefer to have a government made up of people who are just a bit unsure of themselves. People who are not filled with the zeal that seems to afflict those who never wonder whether, just maybe, decisions should be left up to the individual citizens rather than dictated by the government. AzWm William..all I can say is "out of sight, out of mind". Remember when littering was made against the law in the US..around 1966 or so? You're old enough to remember following a "family wagon" down the highway and seeing a bag of garbage launched out the window with no repercussions. Littering was no different then than it is now, it just became a volume thing where the litter finally became a negative for many reasons. Bottom line is more people and more garbage. Have you been to Third World at all, or your local American deserts and seen the volume of plastic bags stuck on fences, on cactus and just blowing around? Been out in the ocean and seen the volume of plastic bags and other plastic drifting in the water column? I had a job two years ago filming Atlantic blue fin tuna in the Mediterranean. One of my biggest challenges was keeping the plastic bags out of the frame! There is just huge amounts being put into the environment unnecessarily. I think your link re: reusable bags and ecoli figures is probably put out by the plastic industry. Europe is extensively using the reusable (have been for years now) bags. Can you find me a link that shows people getting ill from their shopping bags in Europe? Know what's on your coin and bill change you get from Starbucks? If you are afraid of reusable bags, you probably will need to sanitize your hands after every transaction. Bottom line is that I think your thinking runs along the lines of "out of sight, out of mind". Hey it would be nice if it was still the wild wild west with unlimited resources, space and an environment that was capable of absorbing all of our $#!+.... it just isn't anymore. Transitioning away from disposable plastic bags is a good thing for many reasons. You may not like the method, but it needs to happen. |
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Post by davdesid on Jul 11, 2010 15:54:13 GMT -8
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 11, 2010 16:11:33 GMT -8
And therein lies the danger is being ruled . . uh, I mean governed. . . by people who are totally convinced that they know what's best and have little or no concern for unanticipated consequences. I would prefer to have a government made up of people who are just a bit unsure of themselves. People who are not filled with the zeal that seems to afflict those who never wonder whether, just maybe, decisions should be left up to the individual citizens rather than dictated by the government. AzWm William..all I can say is "out of sight, out of mind". Remember when littering was made against the law in the US..around 1966 or so? You're old enough to remember following a "family wagon" down the highway and seeing a bag of garbage launched out the window with no repercussions. Littering was no different then than it is now, it just became a volume thing where the litter finally became a negative for many reasons. Bottom line is more people and more garbage. Have you been to Third World at all, or your local American deserts and seen the volume of plastic bags stuck on fences, on cactus and just blowing around? Been out in the ocean and seen the volume of plastic bags and other plastic drifting in the water column? I had a job two years ago filming Atlantic blue fin tuna in the Mediterranean. One of my biggest challenges was keeping the plastic bags out of the frame! There is just huge amounts being put into the environment unnecessarily. I think your link re: reusable bags and ecoli figures is probably put out by the plastic industry. Europe is extensively using the reusable (have been for years now) bags. Can you find me a link that shows people getting ill from their shopping bags in Europe? Know what's on your coin and bill change you get from Starbucks? If you are afraid of reusable bags, you probably will need to sanitize your hands after every transaction. Bottom line is that I think your thinking runs along the lines of "out of sight, out of mind". Hey it would be nice if it was still the wild wild west with unlimited resources, space and an environment that was capable of absorbing all of our $#!+.... it just isn't anymore. Transitioning away from disposable plastic bags is a good thing for many reasons. You may not like the method, but it needs to happen. I prefer the ease of using plastic bags, but I always ask for paper when I remember. I have a bunch of the reusable cloth bags but just about never remember to bring them. I guess they can be put in the laundry but that is going a little far unless it is only when you notice something on them. Dave's suggestion of biodegradable seems like a good idea. |
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Post by uwaztec on Jul 11, 2010 16:45:36 GMT -8
Sid...can you tell me what this issue has to do with "lib" non-lib? Tiring at this point really. I will take a look at your biodegradable point. If it was 1964 and making littering illegal was still a hot topic...would it be "lib" versus non-lib?.... probably. |
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Post by monty on Jul 11, 2010 17:47:10 GMT -8
charge 5 cents a bag or give a 5 cent discount for using a bag. Our food mostly is already wrapped up in other f'n plastic, really, is there that much of a risk.
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Post by Yoda on Jul 12, 2010 6:52:06 GMT -8
And therein lies the danger is being ruled . . uh, I mean governed. . . by people who are totally convinced that they know what's best and have little or no concern for unanticipated consequences. Do you think that the right is any less convinced of its moral superiority than the left? Zealots on both sides are always convinced that right is on their side. Only the middle has any sense of perspective. Yoda out... |
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Post by davdesid on Jul 12, 2010 12:37:40 GMT -8
Sid...can you tell me what this issue has to do with "lib" non-lib? Tiring at this point really. I will take a look at your biodegradable point. If it was 1964 and making littering illegal was still a hot topic...would it be "lib" versus non-lib?.... probably. I don't think so. Back in those days aboard ships at sea there was a pipe (announcement) every evening after "knock off ship's work". It went like this: "Sweepers, sweepers, man your brooms. Sweep down all decks and passageways. Dump all trash over the fantail." A lot of non-biodegradable plastic bags filled with trash went into the ocean. But that was a long time ago. Since then, and for many years now, the ships have trash compacters, and trash is brought back into port for more efficacious disposal. That has been so at least since the '70s. No one bitched that I recalled. Where I live, plastic grocery bags are recycled. Every grocery store has bins for deposit. They are usually filled to capacity, by the way. |
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 12, 2010 12:54:53 GMT -8
Sid...can you tell me what this issue has to do with "lib" non-lib? Tiring at this point really. I will take a look at your biodegradable point. If it was 1964 and making littering illegal was still a hot topic...would it be "lib" versus non-lib?.... probably. I don't think so. Back in those days aboard ships at sea there was a pipe (announcement) every evening after "knock off ship's work". It went like this: "Sweepers, sweepers, man your brooms. Sweep down all decks and passageways. Dump all trash over the fantail." A lot of non-biodegradable plastic bags filled with trash went into the ocean. But that was a long time ago. Since then, and for many years now, the ships have trash compacters, and trash is brought back into port for more efficacious disposal. That has been so at least since the '70s. No one bitched that I recalled. Where I live, plastic grocery bags are recycled. Every grocery store has bins for deposit. They are usually filled to capacity, by the way. What do you think the sea floor looks like in the South China Sea or the Gulf of Tonkin? I don't remember when we started holding trash onstation, but it was after 1970 or maybe even 72. I don't think this should be a political issue, but one of common sense. |
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Post by davdesid on Jul 12, 2010 15:55:08 GMT -8
I don't think so. Back in those days aboard ships at sea there was a pipe (announcement) every evening after "knock off ship's work". It went like this: "Sweepers, sweepers, man your brooms. Sweep down all decks and passageways. Dump all trash over the fantail." A lot of non-biodegradable plastic bags filled with trash went into the ocean. But that was a long time ago. Since then, and for many years now, the ships have trash compacters, and trash is brought back into port for more efficacious disposal. That has been so at least since the '70s. No one bitched that I recalled. Where I live, plastic grocery bags are recycled. Every grocery store has bins for deposit. They are usually filled to capacity, by the way. What do you think the sea floor looks like in the South China Sea or the Gulf of Tonkin? I don't remember when we started holding trash onstation, but it was after 1970 or maybe even 72. I don't think this should be a political issue, but one of common sense. Well, of course. But the "libs" try to bend it into a "conservatives don't give a damn about the environment" issue. It's just what they do. It was the early 70s when we went to trash compactors. I supported it, and can't think of a single person who didn't. As to the floor of the South China Sea, I suppose anyone interested in recovering/recycling brass would find a gold mine. |
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 12, 2010 17:48:09 GMT -8
What do you think the sea floor looks like in the South China Sea or the Gulf of Tonkin? I don't remember when we started holding trash onstation, but it was after 1970 or maybe even 72. I don't think this should be a political issue, but one of common sense. Well, of course. But the "libs" try to bend it into a "conservatives don't give a damn about the environment" issue. It's just what they do. It was the early 70s when we went to trash compactors. I supported it, and can't think of a single person who didn't. As to the floor of the South China Sea, I suppose anyone interested in recovering/recycling brass would find a gold mine. Along with Aluminum Coke Cans. |
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Post by uwaztec on Jul 12, 2010 20:17:26 GMT -8
Sid...can you tell me what this issue has to do with "lib" non-lib? Tiring at this point really. I will take a look at your biodegradable point. If it was 1964 and making littering illegal was still a hot topic...would it be "lib" versus non-lib?.... probably. I don't think so. Back in those days aboard ships at sea there was a pipe (announcement) every evening after "knock off ship's work". It went like this: "Sweepers, sweepers, man your brooms. Sweep down all decks and passageways. Dump all trash over the fantail." A lot of non-biodegradable plastic bags filled with trash went into the ocean. But that was a long time ago. Since then, and for many years now, the ships have trash compacters, and trash is brought back into port for more efficacious disposal. That has been so at least since the '70s. No one bitched that I recalled. Where I live, plastic grocery bags are recycled. Every grocery store has bins for deposit. They are usually filled to capacity, by the way. Sid... they have done studies on how many people recycle those plastic bags.....and the percentage is ridiculously low... not even 10% in many areas. Bay Area is probably higher because of all the "libs". |
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