Resumes for McChrystal and Obama

[aztecwin]

General McChrystal Biography
Commander, International Security Assistance Force/
Commander, United States Forces Afghanistan
United States Army

SOURCE OF COMMISSIONED SERVICE: USMA EDUCATIONAL DEGREES
United States Military Academy - BS - No Major
United States Naval War College - MA - National Security and Strategic Studies
Salve Regina University - MS - International Relations

MILITARY SCHOOLS ATTENDED:
Infantry Officer Basic and Advanced Courses
United States Naval Command and Staff College
Senior Service College Fellowship Harvard University

FOREIGN LANGUAGES:
Spanish

PROMOTIONS DATE OF APPOINTMENT:
2LT 2 Jun 76
1LT 2 Jun 78
CPT 1 Aug 80
MAJ 1 Jul 87
LTC 1 Sep 92
COL 1 Sep 96
BG 1 Jan 01
MG 1 May 04
LTG 16 Feb 06
GEN 11 Jun 09

FROM TO ASSIGNMENT:
Nov 76 Feb 78 Weapons Platoon Leader, C Company, 1st Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82d Airborne Division, Fort Bragg, North Carolina

Feb 78 Jul 78 Rifle Platoon Leader, C Company, 1st Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82d Airborne Division, Fort Bragg, North Carolina

Jul 78 Nov 78 Executive Officer, C Company, 1st Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82d Airborne Division, Fort Bragg, North Carolina

Nov 78 Apr 79 Student, Special Forces Officer Course, Special Forces School, Fort Bragg, North Carolina
Apr 79 Jun 80 Commander, Detachment A, A Company, 1st Battalion, 7th Special Forces Group (Airborne), Fort Bragg, North Carolina

Jun 80 Feb 81 Student, Infantry Officer Advanced Course, United States Army Infantry School, Fort Benning, Georgia
Feb 81 Mar 82 S2/S3 (Intelligence/Operations), United Nations Command Support Group Joint Security Area, Korea
Mar 82 Nov 82 Training Officer, Directorate of Plans and Training, A Company, Headquarters Command, Fort Stewart, Georgia

Nov 82 Sep 84 Commander, A Company, 3d Battalion, 19th Infantry, 24th Infantry Division (Mechanized), Fort Stewart, Georgia

Sep 84 Sep 85 S3 (Operations), 3d Battalion, 19th Infantry, 24th Infantry Division (Mechanized), Fort Stewart, Georgia
Sep 85 Jan 86 Liaison Officer, 3d Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Georgia
Jan 86 May 87 Commander, A Company, 3d Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Georgia
May 87 Apr 88 Liaison Officer, 3d Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Georgia
Apr 88 Jun 89 S3 (Operations), 3d Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Georgia
Jun 89 Jun 90 Student, Command and Staff Course, United States Naval War College, Newport, Rhode Island
Jun 90 Apr 93 Army Special Operations Action Officer, J3, Joint Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina and OPERATIONS DESERT SHIELD/STORM, Saudi Arabia

Apr 93 Nov 94 Commander, 2d Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82d Airborne Division, Fort Bragg, North Carolina

Nov 94 Jun 96 Commander, 2d Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Lewis, Washington
Jun 96 Jun 97 Senior Service College Fellowship, John F. Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts

Jun 97 Aug 99 Commander, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Georgia
Aug 99 Jun 00 Military Fellow, Council on Foreign Relations, New York, New York
Jun 00 Jun 01 Assistant Division Commander (Operations), 82d Airborne Division, Fort Bragg, North Carolina to include duty as Commander, Combined Joint Task Force Kuwait, Camp Doha, Kuwait

Jun 01 Jul 02 Chief of Staff, XVIII Airborne Corps and Fort Bragg, Fort Bragg, North Carolina to include duty as Chief of Staff, Combined Joint Task Force180, OPERATION ENDURING

FREEDOM, Afghanistan
Jul 02 Sep 03 Vice Director for Operations, J3, The Joint Staff, Washington, DC
Sep 03 Feb 06 Commanding General, Joint Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina
Feb 06 Jun 08 Commander, Joint Special Operations Command/Commander, Joint Special Operations Command Forward, United States Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina

Aug 08 Jun 09 Director, The Joint Staff, Washington, DC
Jun 09 Present Commander, International Security Assistance Force/Commander, United States Forces Afghanistan, OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, Afghanistan

SUMMARY OF JOINT ASSIGNMENTS:
S2/S3 (Intelligence/Operations), United Nations Command Support Group Joint Security Area, Korea (Feb 81-Mar 82, Captain)

Army Special Operations Action Officer, J3, Joint Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina and OPERATIONS DESERT SHIELD/STORM, Saudi Arabia Jun 90-Apr 93 Major/Lieutenant Colonel)

Chief of Staff, XVIII Airborne Corps and Fort Bragg, Fort Bragg, North Carolina to include duty as Chief of Staff, Combined Joint Task Force180, OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, Afghanistan (Jun 01-Jul 02, Brigadier General)

Vice Director for Operations, J3, The Joint Staff, Washington, DC (Jul 02-Sep 03, Brigadier General)
Commanding General, Joint Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina (Sep 03-Feb 06, Brigadier General/Major General)

Commander, Joint Special Operations Command/Commander, Joint Special Operations
Command Forward, United States Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina (Feb 06-Jun 08, Major General/Lieutenant General)

Director, The Joint Staff, Washington, DC (Aug 08-Jun 09, Lieutenant General)
Commander, International Security Assistance Force/Commander, United States Forces Afghanistan, OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, Afghanistan (Jun 09-Present, General)

SUMMARY OF OPERATIONS ASSIGNMENTS DATE GRADE
Army Special Operations Action Officer, J3, Joint Special Operations Command, OPERATIONS DESERT SHIELD/STORM, Saudi Arabia (Jun 90-Mar 91, Major)

Commander, Combined Joint Task Force Kuwait, Camp Doha, Kuwait (Apr 01-Jun 01, Brigadier General)
Chief of Staff, Combined Joint Task Force180, OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, Afghanistan (May 02-Jul 02, Brigadier General)

Commander, International Security Assistance Force/Commander, United States Forces Afghanistan, OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, Afghanistan (Jun 09- Present, General)

US DECORATIONS AND BADGES:
Defense Distinguished Service Medal
Defense Superior Service Medal (with Oak Leaf Cluster)
Legion of Merit (with 2 Oak Leaf Clusters)
Bronze Star Medal
Defense Meritorious Service Medal
Meritorious Service Medal (with 3 Oak Leaf Clusters)
Army Commendation Medal
Army Achievement Medal
Expert Infantryman Badge
Master Parachutist Badge
Ranger Tab
Special Forces Tab
Joint Chiefs of Staff Identification Badge

_________________________________________________________________

Obama Biography:
Birthplace: Location remains questionable. Proof of United States Citizenship hasn't been provided.
Education: Columbia University, Harvard Law School. Records never produced, attendance remains questionable.
Military Career: None
Business Career: None
Political Career: Community organizer, Chicago, 1983-86; civil rights attorney, Chicago, 1991-96;
University of Chicago, lecturer, early 1990s-2004; Illinois State Senator, 1996-2005; U.S. Senator, 2005-2008; President 2008-.

____________________________________________________________________

It appears that the wrong guy resigned.

[inevitec]

Jul 4, 2011 6:55:20 GMT -8 aztecwin said:

General McChrystal Biography
Commander, International Security Assistance Force/
Commander, United States Forces Afghanistan
United States Army

SOURCE OF COMMISSIONED SERVICE: USMA EDUCATIONAL DEGREES
United States Military Academy - BS - No Major
United States Naval War College - MA - National Security and Strategic Studies
Salve Regina University - MS - International Relations

MILITARY SCHOOLS ATTENDED:
Infantry Officer Basic and Advanced Courses
United States Naval Command and Staff College
Senior Service College Fellowship Harvard University

FOREIGN LANGUAGES:
Spanish

PROMOTIONS DATE OF APPOINTMENT:
2LT 2 Jun 76
1LT 2 Jun 78
CPT 1 Aug 80
MAJ 1 Jul 87
LTC 1 Sep 92
COL 1 Sep 96
BG 1 Jan 01
MG 1 May 04
LTG 16 Feb 06
GEN 11 Jun 09

FROM TO ASSIGNMENT:
Nov 76 Feb 78 Weapons Platoon Leader, C Company, 1st Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82d Airborne Division, Fort Bragg, North Carolina

Feb 78 Jul 78 Rifle Platoon Leader, C Company, 1st Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82d Airborne Division, Fort Bragg, North Carolina

Jul 78 Nov 78 Executive Officer, C Company, 1st Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82d Airborne Division, Fort Bragg, North Carolina

Nov 78 Apr 79 Student, Special Forces Officer Course, Special Forces School, Fort Bragg, North Carolina
Apr 79 Jun 80 Commander, Detachment A, A Company, 1st Battalion, 7th Special Forces Group (Airborne), Fort Bragg, North Carolina

Jun 80 Feb 81 Student, Infantry Officer Advanced Course, United States Army Infantry School, Fort Benning, Georgia
Feb 81 Mar 82 S2/S3 (Intelligence/Operations), United Nations Command Support Group Joint Security Area, Korea
Mar 82 Nov 82 Training Officer, Directorate of Plans and Training, A Company, Headquarters Command, Fort Stewart, Georgia

Nov 82 Sep 84 Commander, A Company, 3d Battalion, 19th Infantry, 24th Infantry Division (Mechanized), Fort Stewart, Georgia

Sep 84 Sep 85 S3 (Operations), 3d Battalion, 19th Infantry, 24th Infantry Division (Mechanized), Fort Stewart, Georgia
Sep 85 Jan 86 Liaison Officer, 3d Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Georgia
Jan 86 May 87 Commander, A Company, 3d Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Georgia
May 87 Apr 88 Liaison Officer, 3d Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Georgia
Apr 88 Jun 89 S3 (Operations), 3d Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Georgia
Jun 89 Jun 90 Student, Command and Staff Course, United States Naval War College, Newport, Rhode Island
Jun 90 Apr 93 Army Special Operations Action Officer, J3, Joint Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina and OPERATIONS DESERT SHIELD/STORM, Saudi Arabia

Apr 93 Nov 94 Commander, 2d Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82d Airborne Division, Fort Bragg, North Carolina

Nov 94 Jun 96 Commander, 2d Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Lewis, Washington
Jun 96 Jun 97 Senior Service College Fellowship, John F. Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts

Jun 97 Aug 99 Commander, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Georgia
Aug 99 Jun 00 Military Fellow, Council on Foreign Relations, New York, New York
Jun 00 Jun 01 Assistant Division Commander (Operations), 82d Airborne Division, Fort Bragg, North Carolina to include duty as Commander, Combined Joint Task Force Kuwait, Camp Doha, Kuwait

Jun 01 Jul 02 Chief of Staff, XVIII Airborne Corps and Fort Bragg, Fort Bragg, North Carolina to include duty as Chief of Staff, Combined Joint Task Force180, OPERATION ENDURING

FREEDOM, Afghanistan
Jul 02 Sep 03 Vice Director for Operations, J3, The Joint Staff, Washington, DC
Sep 03 Feb 06 Commanding General, Joint Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina
Feb 06 Jun 08 Commander, Joint Special Operations Command/Commander, Joint Special Operations Command Forward, United States Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina

Aug 08 Jun 09 Director, The Joint Staff, Washington, DC
Jun 09 Present Commander, International Security Assistance Force/Commander, United States Forces Afghanistan, OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, Afghanistan

SUMMARY OF JOINT ASSIGNMENTS:
S2/S3 (Intelligence/Operations), United Nations Command Support Group Joint Security Area, Korea (Feb 81-Mar 82, Captain)

Army Special Operations Action Officer, J3, Joint Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina and OPERATIONS DESERT SHIELD/STORM, Saudi Arabia Jun 90-Apr 93 Major/Lieutenant Colonel)

Chief of Staff, XVIII Airborne Corps and Fort Bragg, Fort Bragg, North Carolina to include duty as Chief of Staff, Combined Joint Task Force180, OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, Afghanistan (Jun 01-Jul 02, Brigadier General)

Vice Director for Operations, J3, The Joint Staff, Washington, DC (Jul 02-Sep 03, Brigadier General)
Commanding General, Joint Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina (Sep 03-Feb 06, Brigadier General/Major General)

Commander, Joint Special Operations Command/Commander, Joint Special Operations
Command Forward, United States Special Operations Command, Fort Bragg, North Carolina (Feb 06-Jun 08, Major General/Lieutenant General)

Director, The Joint Staff, Washington, DC (Aug 08-Jun 09, Lieutenant General)
Commander, International Security Assistance Force/Commander, United States Forces Afghanistan, OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, Afghanistan (Jun 09-Present, General)

SUMMARY OF OPERATIONS ASSIGNMENTS DATE GRADE
Army Special Operations Action Officer, J3, Joint Special Operations Command, OPERATIONS DESERT SHIELD/STORM, Saudi Arabia (Jun 90-Mar 91, Major)

Commander, Combined Joint Task Force Kuwait, Camp Doha, Kuwait (Apr 01-Jun 01, Brigadier General)
Chief of Staff, Combined Joint Task Force180, OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, Afghanistan (May 02-Jul 02, Brigadier General)

Commander, International Security Assistance Force/Commander, United States Forces Afghanistan, OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM, Afghanistan (Jun 09- Present, General)

US DECORATIONS AND BADGES:
Defense Distinguished Service Medal
Defense Superior Service Medal (with Oak Leaf Cluster)
Legion of Merit (with 2 Oak Leaf Clusters)
Bronze Star Medal
Defense Meritorious Service Medal
Meritorious Service Medal (with 3 Oak Leaf Clusters)
Army Commendation Medal
Army Achievement Medal
Expert Infantryman Badge
Master Parachutist Badge
Ranger Tab
Special Forces Tab
Joint Chiefs of Staff Identification Badge

_________________________________________________________________

Obama Biography:
Birthplace: Location remains questionable. Proof of United States Citizenship hasn't been provided.
Education: Columbia University, Harvard Law School. Records never produced, attendance remains questionable.
Military Career: None
Business Career: None
Political Career: Community organizer, Chicago, 1983-86; civil rights attorney, Chicago, 1991-96;
University of Chicago, lecturer, early 1990s-2004; Illinois State Senator, 1996-2005; U.S. Senator, 2005-2008; President 2008-.

____________________________________________________________________

It appears that the wrong guy resigned.

So. . . Does McCrystal have 40 years experience or one year's experience 40 times?

I do not understand your comparison.

Any military officer who achieves McCrystal's rank has a background that looks similar. The army posts them to those assignments. There is no evidence, from your list anyway, about how well McCrystal performed in those assignments. His promotions offer a clue, but so do Obama's.

I would say that promotions to U.S. Senator and President of the U.S. beats McCrystal's resume. There are about 302 generals allowed in the army. There are 100 senators. There is one president. Obama is at the pointier end of the pyramid. Thus, Win my friend, Obama's achievement is more impressive.

[aztecwin]

Feel free to edit or fill in the blanks on Obama's resume to support your contention. Just to give you some perspective, Stuart Smalley became a Senator as did Barbara Boxer. No one like Obama or those two have ever became a General in the Army.

[inevitec]

Jul 4, 2011 7:37:51 GMT -8 aztecwin said:

Feel free to edit or fill in the blanks on Obama's resume to support your contention. Just to give you some perspective, Stuart Smalley became a Senator as did Barbara Boxer. No one like Obama or those two have ever became a General in the Army.

Generally speaking, people would consider a resume that includes U.S. Senator and President of the United States to be superior to that of one of his subordinates.

[aztecwin]

Jul 4, 2011 7:44:03 GMT -8 @inevitec said:

Jul 4, 2011 7:37:51 GMT -8 aztecwin said:

Feel free to edit or fill in the blanks on Obama's resume to support your contention. Just to give you some perspective, Stuart Smalley became a Senator as did Barbara Boxer. No one like Obama or those two have ever became a General in the Army.

Generally speaking, people would consider a resume that includes U.S. Senator and President of the United States to be superior to that of one of his subordinates.

Specifically speaking, not in this case nor the examples I provided. Feel free to proceed with filling in Obama's resume. Please include his drug use and sitting in a church for twenty years and never hearing a sermon.

Who paid Obama's tuition at Punaho?

[inevitec]

Jul 4, 2011 7:53:37 GMT -8 aztecwin said:

Jul 4, 2011 7:44:03 GMT -8 @inevitec said:

Generally speaking, people would consider a resume that includes U.S. Senator and President of the United States to be superior to that of one of his subordinates.

Specifically speaking, not in this case nor the examples I provided. Feel free to proceed with filling in Obama's resume. Please include his drug use and sitting in a church for twenty years and never hearing a sermon.

Who paid Obama's tuition at Punaho?

You gave us a list of McCrystal's postings without any kind of qualitative reference from which to draw a conclusion. A list is a list is a list. Obama can fire McCrystal. Game over.

[aztecwin]

Jul 4, 2011 8:09:11 GMT -8 @inevitec said:

Jul 4, 2011 7:53:37 GMT -8 aztecwin said:

Specifically speaking, not in this case nor the examples I provided. Feel free to proceed with filling in Obama's resume. Please include his drug use and sitting in a church for twenty years and never hearing a sermon.

Who paid Obama's tuition at Punaho?

You gave us a list of McCrystal's postings without any kind of qualitative reference from which to draw a conclusion. A list is a list is a list. Obama can fire McCrystal. Game over.

You mean kind of like Truman fired Gen. Douglas MacArthur? Please give empirical data and not some positional based opinion. I was in a position to hire and fire Mechanical and Electrical Engineers with much more impressive resumes than mine. I could not hold a candle to them in any technical or educational way other than the path that I took to get to my position. Too bad Obama does not have that kind of wisdom.

[inevitec]

Jul 4, 2011 8:18:08 GMT -8 aztecwin said:

Jul 4, 2011 8:09:11 GMT -8 @inevitec said:

You gave us a list of McCrystal's postings without any kind of qualitative reference from which to draw a conclusion. A list is a list is a list. Obama can fire McCrystal. Game over.

You mean kind of like Truman fired Gen. Douglas MacArthur? Please give empirical data and not some positional based opinion. I was in a position to hire and fire Mechanical and Electrical Engineers with much more impressive resumes than mine. I could not hold a candle to them in any technical or educational way other than the path that I took to get to my position. Too bad Obama does not have that kind of wisdom.

You list McCrystal's postings and you want us to draw a qualitative conclusion from it? You listed where he has been, not how good he was at what he did. That, aside from a list of his promotions, is all you provided.

So, the only basis I have to compare is their ascension through their relative hierarchies. On that basis, Obama wins. However, if you have some qualitative information to substantiate your conclusion that McCrystal's background makes him better than Obama and not just in possession of more numerous assignments, I'll play.

[aztecwin]

Jul 4, 2011 16:47:08 GMT -8 John, Your Pal said:

Jul 4, 2011 7:37:51 GMT -8 aztecwin said:

Just to give you some perspective, Stuart Smalley became a Senator as did Barbara Boxer. No one like Obama or those two have ever became a General in the Army.

You have a good point, though you forgot about this clown from The Love Boat, Fred Grandy:



Then you forgot about this guy, who like Obama had no military experience (but liked to dress up like some kinda tough guy):

What do either one of those folks have to do with either of the two people we are talking about?

[inevitec]

Jul 4, 2011 21:54:11 GMT -8 aztecwin said:

Jul 4, 2011 16:47:08 GMT -8 John, Your Pal said:

You have a good point, though you forgot about this clown from The Love Boat, Fred Grandy:



Then you forgot about this guy, who like Obama had no military experience (but liked to dress up like some kinda tough guy):

What do either one of those folks have to do with either of the two people we are talking about?

You have failed to show that attaining the rank of General is superior to anything, let alone Obama's qualifications. Why should I believe that becoming a general is an accomplishment superior to becoming President of the United States? You haven't shown it. All I have is your evaluation and that is biased against Obama.

On the subject of Ronnie; he was upstaged by a Chimpanzee-more than once. That says all that need to be said about him.

[aztecwin]

Jul 5, 2011 9:25:12 GMT -8 @inevitec said:

Jul 4, 2011 21:54:11 GMT -8 aztecwin said:

What do either one of those folks have to do with either of the two people we are talking about?

You have failed to show that attaining the rank of General is superior to anything, let alone Obama's qualifications. Why should I believe that becoming a general is an accomplishment superior to becoming President of the United States? You haven't shown it. All I have is your evaluation and that is biased against Obama.

On the subject of Ronnie; he was upstaged by a Chimpanzee-more than once. That says all that need to be said about him.

If becoming a General is superior is not the question. We are looking at resumes. Rather simple idea that seems to have you befuddled.

[aztec70]

How many active and retired generals are there in this country? How many Presidents? It must be far easier to become a general than the POTUS.

[AlwaysAnAztec]

Jul 5, 2011 19:17:51 GMT -8 John, Your Pal said:

I thought Win was alluding to the fact that Obama has no military experience and that that was the reason for the resume comparison.

No, don't think so. Just another example of a hater hating.

BTW, it does bother me that no President or Vice President since GHWB (a true war hero) has served in the military. And yes, I DON'T consider Jr's "Reserve" duty serving in the military.

[aztecwin]

Jul 6, 2011 8:05:26 GMT -8 AlwaysAnAztec said:

Jul 5, 2011 19:17:51 GMT -8 John, Your Pal said:

I thought Win was alluding to the fact that Obama has no military experience and that that was the reason for the resume comparison.

No, don't think so. Just another example of a hater hating.

BTW, it does bother me that no President or Vice President since GHWB (a true war hero) has served in the military. And yes, I DON'T consider Jr's "Reserve" duty serving in the military.

The famous hater defense. When no other thing will do, pretend that hate must be the motivation for exposing or stating short comings. You lefties are so predictable and as usual, so wrong.

[AztecWilliam]

Whatever one may think of Barack Obama, it is abundantly clear that his election to the presidency was a real one-in-a-thousand lucky shot. Honestly, there were so many factors that all lined up in the same direction for Obama. Had any one or two turned the other way, it's pretty hard to believe that McCain would not have won. Or perhaps I should say that it's likely that Obama would not have been nominated.

AzWm

[azdick]

Jul 6, 2011 21:57:30 GMT -8 AztecWilliam said:

Whatever one may think of Barack Obama, it is abundantly clear that his election to the presidency was a real one-in-a-thousand lucky shot. Honestly, there were so many factors that all lined up in the same direction for Obama. Had any one or two turned the other way, it's pretty hard to believe that McCain would not have won. Or perhaps I should say that it's likely that Obama would not have been nominated.

AzWm

And of course, the election of Dubya wasn't lucky? How about losing the popular vote and then having the Supreme Court award it to the loser? Now there's some luck for ya.

[aztec70]

Jul 7, 2011 9:33:09 GMT -8 azdick said:

Jul 6, 2011 21:57:30 GMT -8 AztecWilliam said:

Whatever one may think of Barack Obama, it is abundantly clear that his election to the presidency was a real one-in-a-thousand lucky shot. Honestly, there were so many factors that all lined up in the same direction for Obama. Had any one or two turned the other way, it's pretty hard to believe that McCain would not have won. Or perhaps I should say that it's likely that Obama would not have been nominated.

AzWm

And of course, the election of Dubya wasn't lucky? How about losing the popular vote and then having the Supreme Court award it to the loser? Now there's some luck for ya.

You are too kind.

[AztecWilliam]

Jul 7, 2011 9:33:09 GMT -8 azdick said:

Jul 6, 2011 21:57:30 GMT -8 AztecWilliam said:

Whatever one may think of Barack Obama, it is abundantly clear that his election to the presidency was a real one-in-a-thousand lucky shot. Honestly, there were so many factors that all lined up in the same direction for Obama. Had any one or two turned the other way, it's pretty hard to believe that McCain would not have won. Or perhaps I should say that it's likely that Obama would not have been nominated.

AzWm

And of course, the election of Dubya wasn't lucky? How about losing the popular vote and then having the Supreme Court award it to the loser? Now there's some luck for ya.

I'm not so sure. Yes, had the Supreme Court of the US had a different makeup things might have ended differently. However, there were factors that worked the other way, too. For one, the Florida Supreme Court intervened (essentially on behalf of Gore) without having been asked. Had they not taken that action, the whole Florida mess would not have occurred. Also, had the networks not called the election for Gore prematurely, the Florida Panhandle, which is largely Rep., probably would have given Bush several thousand more votes, thus making the whole controversy a moot issue.

I should also mention that at no time did any vote count give Gore the lead. The Democrats also tried to play a dirty trick by asking for a recount of certain areas (where they thought they could overturn Bush's lead) instead of the whole state. Later, two or three newspapers sent teams of investigators to Florida and they could not find any reason to say that Gore had been cheated.

No, as narrow as it was, Bush's victory in 2000 did not come close to having so many factors all fall in line in favor of one of the candidates as they did in 2008 for Obama.

The result? The most unqualified man ever to run for the office became President.

AzWm

[azdick]

Jul 7, 2011 11:06:17 GMT -8 AztecWilliam said:

Jul 7, 2011 9:33:09 GMT -8 azdick said:

And of course, the election of Dubya wasn't lucky? How about losing the popular vote and then having the Supreme Court award it to the loser? Now there's some luck for ya.

I'm not so sure. Yes, had the Supreme Court of the US had a different makeup things might have ended differently. However, there were factors that worked the other way, too. For one, the Florida Supreme Court intervened (essentially on behalf of Gore) without having been asked. Had they not taken that action, the whole Florida mess would not have occurred. Also, had the networks not called the election for Gore prematurely, the Florida Panhandle, which is largely Rep., probably would have given Bush several thousand more votes, thus making the whole controversy a moot issue.

I should also mention that at no time did any vote count give Gore the lead. The Democrats also tried to play a dirty trick by asking for a recount of certain areas (where they thought they could overturn Bush's lead) instead of the whole state. Later, two or three newspapers sent teams of investigators to Florida and they could not find any reason to say that Gore had been cheated.

No, as narrow as it was, Bush's victory in 2000 did not come close to having so many factors all fall in line in favor of one of the candidates as they did in 2008 for Obama.

The result? The most unqualified man ever to run for the office became President.

AzWm

You know, you're right. There was nothing "lucky" about Dubya's victory. All it took was Katherine Harris rigging the vote in Florida in his favor. It's interesting that you don't even mention the illegal activities by Harris that caused tens of thousands of votes not to be counted in Democratic majority precincts. Face it, Dubya stole the election.

I would contend that Bill Clinton was luckier than Obama because of having a third party siphon off independent voters. Speaking of luck, Ronald Regan had the hostage crises fall into his lap. John Kennedy was lucky because Mayor Daly was stuffing the ballot boxes in Illinois. William Howard Taft lost in 1912 because Teddy Roosevelt drew Republic votes away in a third party effort. The list is very long, indeed, of "lucky" electees. Obama may have been the fortunate recipient of having the legacy of a horrible president precede him, and having the Sarah Palin specter hanging over the Republicans, but he was no more "lucky" than a dozen others before him.

[AztecWilliam]

Claiming that Katherine Harris "rigged" the vote is a very, very serious charge, one which in some cases might be cause for a successful libel suit. Please explain just how the elections was rigged. You may recall that the butterfly ballots, which were supposedly the problem in some areas, were designed by a DEMOCRAT!

The fact is that there is absolutely no evidence (unlike the 1960 election) that any fraud was the cause of G.W. Bush's election in 2000. Let's try to stick to facts.

AzWm