Today, Goldwater would be a Democrat...

[Yoda]

Today's so-called "conservatives" are not, in any way shape or form, conservative. They don't meet any definition of the word -- except their own. They've hijacked the term but they not only don't believe in its principals they are diametrically opposed so some of them.

Barry Goldwater is generally credited with having founded the conservative movement and the movement that he founded was heavily influenced by libertarian principals. He believed that government should stay out of people's private lives. Not just out of the lives of the conservatives but out of the lives of the liberals as well. Today's so-called conservatives reject the very libertarian principals that the Conservative movement was grounded in and have replaced it with anti-libertarian principles from the Christian right.

~ Goldwater was pro-choice. Today's so-called conservatives are anti-choice.

~ Goldwater was pro gays in the military. Today's so-called conservatives are against it.

~ Goldwater was an environmentalist. Today's so-called conservatives are not so much.

~ Goldwater was a strong proponent of the separation of Church and State. Today's so-called conservatives (especially in the south) wrap themselves in the flag and are more inclined to turn to the bible than the constitution for their guiding political principals.

A few years before his death Goldwater went so far as to address the right wing, "Do not associate my name with anything you do. You are extremists, and you've hurt the Republican party much more than the Democrats have."

If he were alive today, "Mr. Conservative" would be a Democrat -- fighting the very people who have stolen and molested the conservative term and movement. And if by chance he were running for re-election as a Republican, he'd be in grave danger of losing his primary.

Yoda out...

[AlwaysAnAztec]

Good post Yoda. If the Republican party truly wants to return to power they need to return to the Conservative principals expounded by the Great Senator from Arizona.

They won't however. They'll keep trashing any 'moderate' Republicans who will lose in the primary elections. The result being a wing-nut that a conventional Republican or moderate Democrat could not stomach or vote for.

Look for years and years of Democrat dominance until the Republicans finally wise up.

[ptsdthor]

Jul 9, 2010 6:42:57 GMT -8 Yoda said:

Today's so-called "conservatives" are not, in any way shape or form, conservative. They don't meet any definition of the word -- except their own. They've hijacked the term but they not only don't believe in its principals they are diametrically opposed so some of them.

Barry Goldwater is generally credited with having founded the conservative movement and the movement that he founded was heavily influenced by libertarian principals. He believed that government should stay out of people's private lives. Not just out of the lives of the conservatives but out of the lives of the liberals as well. Today's so-called conservatives reject the very libertarian principals that the Conservative movement was grounded in and have replaced it with anti-libertarian principles from the Christian right.

~ Goldwater was pro-choice. Today's so-called conservatives are anti-choice.

~ Goldwater was pro gays in the military. Today's so-called conservatives are against it.

~ Goldwater was an environmentalist. Today's so-called conservatives are not so much.

~ Goldwater was a strong proponent of the separation of Church and State. Today's so-called conservatives (especially in the south) wrap themselves in the flag and are more inclined to turn to the bible than the constitution for their guiding political principals.

A few years before his death Goldwater went so far as to address the right wing, "Do not associate my name with anything you do. You are extremists, and you've hurt the Republican party much more than the Democrats have."

If he were alive today, "Mr. Conservative" would be a Democrat -- fighting the very people who have stolen and molested the conservative term and movement. And if by chance he were running for re-election as a Republican, he'd be in grave danger of losing his primary.

Yoda out...

You are just wrong.

First and foremost, Goldwater was a big national security proponent which is not in keeping with today's Democrats and second, he was pro-private sector, for low taxes and limited government which would generate another set of "you are not welcome" signs from today's Democratic party.

The fact that he was libertarian is his views about social issues would not make him an a Democrat. There are a ton of socially liberal Republicans who are hawkish and economically conservative. See Ron Paul, Arnold, etc. Sure, he may not be in a national leadership position, but he wouldn't go to the dark side simply for the sake of single issue politics.

NEXT.

[Yoda]

It's an assertion. I can't prove it. You can't disprove it.

But it is NOT a single issue; it's a core principal. While the Dems certainly have their far left element, the Republicans have so isolated and driven off their moderate faction that, in my opinion, the Democrats are not nearly as far left as they used to be -- having been moderated by the influx of former Republicans and the need to get along with business and make the economy work.

One of the things that I find kind of interesting is that the obsessive demand to always cut taxes is coming from the idealogues far more than it is coming from the general business community.

Yoda out...

[ptsdthor]

Perhaps you have been out the country of late, but nothing smacks of "moderation" from the Democrats that I have seen.

And not all businessmen are necessarily policy wonks. Most just deal with the hand they are dealt and don't confuse that acquiescence with them being necessarily proponents of higher taxation, etc. In the end, mostly they pass the higher taxes or costs of government mandates on to the consumer.

[Yoda]

Jul 9, 2010 9:23:07 GMT -8 ptsdthor said:

Perhaps you have been out the country of late, but nothing smacks of "moderation" from the Democrats that I have seen.

And not all businessmen are necessarily policy wonks. Most just deal with the hand they are dealt and don't confuse that acquiescence with them being necessarily proponents of higher taxation, etc. In the end, mostly they pass the higher taxes or costs of government mandates on to the consumer.

In my estimation, the right is so far right that they wouldn't recognize a moderate, as a moderate, if they saw one. While I don't know too many of his policy positions, this guy, for example, strikes me as a moderate...

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38164896/ns/politics-more_politics/

Yoda out...

[ptsdthor]

Jul 9, 2010 9:45:05 GMT -8 Yoda said:

Jul 9, 2010 9:23:07 GMT -8 ptsdthor said:

Perhaps you have been out the country of late, but nothing smacks of "moderation" from the Democrats that I have seen.

And not all businessmen are necessarily policy wonks. Most just deal with the hand they are dealt and don't confuse that acquiescence with them being necessarily proponents of higher taxation, etc. In the end, mostly they pass the higher taxes or costs of government mandates on to the consumer.

In my estimation, the right is so far right that they wouldn't recognize a moderate, as a moderate, if they saw one. While I don't know too many of his policy positions, this guy, for example, strikes me as a moderate...

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38164896/ns/politics-more_politics/

Yoda out...

If Elena Kagan and Dr. Berwick are "moderates" in your eyes, then I can understand your estimation about the right not being able to recognize "moderates". And if FOCA, DISCLOSE, Cap and Trade, and the Law Suit Demanding that Arizona must do nothing to strengthen their illegal immigration enforcement are the essence of "moderation", then push me over with a feather.

[aztecwin]

Jul 9, 2010 6:42:57 GMT -8 Yoda said:

Today's so-called "conservatives" are not, in any way shape or form, conservative. They don't meet any definition of the word -- except their own. They've hijacked the term but they not only don't believe in its principals they are diametrically opposed so some of them.

Barry Goldwater is generally credited with having founded the conservative movement and the movement that he founded was heavily influenced by libertarian principals. He believed that government should stay out of people's private lives. Not just out of the lives of the conservatives but out of the lives of the liberals as well. Today's so-called conservatives reject the very libertarian principals that the Conservative movement was grounded in and have replaced it with anti-libertarian principles from the Christian right.

~ Goldwater was pro-choice. Today's so-called conservatives are anti-choice.

~ Goldwater was pro gays in the military. Today's so-called conservatives are against it.

~ Goldwater was an environmentalist. Today's so-called conservatives are not so much.

~ Goldwater was a strong proponent of the separation of Church and State. Today's so-called conservatives (especially in the south) wrap themselves in the flag and are more inclined to turn to the bible than the constitution for their guiding political principals.

A few years before his death Goldwater went so far as to address the right wing, "Do not associate my name with anything you do. You are extremists, and you've hurt the Republican party much more than the Democrats have."

If he were alive today, "Mr. Conservative" would be a Democrat -- fighting the very people who have stolen and molested the conservative term and movement. And if by chance he were running for re-election as a Republican, he'd be in grave danger of losing his primary.

Yoda out...

Bizaro! You just can not prove most of that and allthough social issues are very important to Conservatives, Defense and the Economy trump any of those social isses.

[Deleted]

He might not be a Republican but he certainly wouldn't be a Democrat. Show where he would favor the over-reaching socialist state favored by modern Democrats. You cannot because he stood for the exact opposite. It's one thing to say that fiscal conservatives, libratarians and social conservatives differ on a range of issues yet quite another to say that those differences equate to one abandoning core principles and becoming a socialist.

By the way, there are a wider range of viewpoints on these social issues on the right than on the left.

[monty]

There are facets of Goldwater's politics I simply do not like (and that is true of basically any politician ever). But he was a man to respect because he was that first and foremost, a man. He wasn't a talking point or a (fully) compromised, met-in-committee-to-decide agenda, he had his ideals and they were his, they were self-founded and fleshed out through experience and his wisdom.
Who knows what label he'd choose, but he clearly was and would be now that center circle in the venn diagram - some of his social philosophy clearly resting on one side, some of his economic and defense views clearly resting on the other side, but a whole lot spilling outside of both on the top and bottom.

Too many (or nearly all) have to quantify what aspect is most important, choose a side, and then adopt the other tenants, and then they become some nameless/thought-less member of the agenda machine

Very few things in life are acctually an either/or like the world is merely a disjunction of the ilk you are married or a bachelor, you are a republican or a democrat, you believe in strong defense, states rights, the primacy of religion (and a born-again/rapture one at that), the immoral act of abortion, etc, or you are for a stronger national government, provided social programs, the right to choose, etc.

There was a documetary on Goldwater by I think his daughter on HBO a few years back and it was excellent.

[Yoda]

Jul 9, 2010 12:43:16 GMT -8 afan said:

He might not be a Republican but he certainly wouldn't be a Democrat. Show where he would favor the over-reaching socialist state favored by modern Democrats. You cannot because he stood for the exact opposite. It's one thing to say that fiscal conservatives, libratarians and social conservatives differ on a range of issues yet quite another to say that those differences equate to one abandoning core principles and becoming a socialist.

By the way, there are a wider range of viewpoints on these social issues on the right than on the left.

"Over-reaching" and "socialist" are your extreme right wing characterizations of pretty much everybody and every issue that isn't on the extreme right. Since he wasn't nearly the extremist that today's right wing is, it is unlikely that he would have shared your characterizations. That's not to say that he would not have approved of the Democrat's position on all the issues, however.

Yoda out...

[Deleted]

Jul 9, 2010 14:05:42 GMT -8 Yoda said:

Jul 9, 2010 12:43:16 GMT -8 afan said:

He might not be a Republican but he certainly wouldn't be a Democrat. Show where he would favor the over-reaching socialist state favored by modern Democrats. You cannot because he stood for the exact opposite. It's one thing to say that fiscal conservatives, libratarians and social conservatives differ on a range of issues yet quite another to say that those differences equate to one abandoning core principles and becoming a socialist.

By the way, there are a wider range of viewpoints on these social issues on the right than on the left.

"Over-reaching" and "socialist" are your extreme right wing characterizations of pretty much everybody and every issue that isn't on the extreme right. Since he wasn't nearly the extremist that today's right wing is, it is unlikely that he would have shared your characterizations. That's not to say that he would not have approved of the Democrat's position on all the issues, however.

Yoda out...

Once again Yoda, nonsense. Tell me Goldwater would be down with Nationalized Healthcare. Tell me he would think that the government owning and operating an auto manufacturer would be the correct policy prescription. Goldwater, without question, would consider these actions anathema to conservative ideals. Try as you might, you cannot simply "morph" Barry ( The good Barry)into a European style Social Democrat.

You have a valid point about his libertarian social views. You're way off-base if you think that an expansive (socialist...deal with it..) Federal government is something with which he would agree.

.

[Yoda]

Jul 9, 2010 12:03:27 GMT -8 aztecwin said:

Bizaro! You just can not prove most of that and allthough social issues are very important to Conservatives, Defense and the Economy trump any of those social isses.

I can't prove most of what? My conclusion that Goldwater would be a Democrat or my statements about his position on various issues?

I obviously can't prove that he would be a Democrat -- although I'm fairly certain that AZ Republicans would toss him out in the primary so if he wanted to get re-elected today, he'd have to be a Democrat.

My statements about his position on the issues, came straight from his public statements and interviews with him and are easily proven -- assuming that you believe direct quotes. Quotes like this...

==============================

"If they succeed in establishing religion as a basic Republican Party tenet," he told U.S. News & World Report in 1994, "they could do us in."

"Well, I've spent quite a number of years carrying the flag of the 'Old Conservatism.' And I can say with conviction that the religious issues of these groups have little or nothing to do with conservative or liberal politics. The uncompromising position of these groups is a divisive element that could tear apart the very spirit of our representative system, if they gain sufficient strength."

Insisted Goldwater, "Being a conservative in America traditionally has meant that one holds a deep, abiding respect for the Constitution. We conservatives believe sincerely in the integrity of the Constitution. We treasure the freedoms that document protects....

"By maintaining the separation of church and state," he explained, "the United States has avoided the intolerance which has so divided the rest of the world with religious wars .... Can any of us refute the wisdom of Madison and the other framers? Can anyone look at the carnage in Iran, the bloodshed in Northern Ireland, or the bombs bursting in Lebanon and yet question the dangers of injecting religious issues into the affairs of state:"

Goldwater concluded with a warning to the American people.

"The religious factions will go on imposing their will on others," he said, "unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives...

"We have succeeded for 205 years in keeping the affairs of state separate from the uncompromising idealism of religious groups and we mustn't stop now," he insisted. "To retreat from that separation would violate the principles of conservatism and the values upon which the framers built this democratic republic."

==============================

And this...

==============================

In 1994 he told The Los Angeles Times, "A lot of so-called conservatives don't know what the word means. They think I've turned liberal because I believe a woman has a right to an abortion. That's a decision that's up to the pregnant woman, not up to the pope or some do-gooders or the Religious Right. It's not a conservative issue at all."

==============================

There are lots more out there.

Contrast Goldwater's views on the separation of church and state with those of (so-called) Conservative Republican Sen. James Inhofe, of Oklahoma, who said at a Christian Coalition convention in 2002,"If you have the opportunity to get a few liberals out of office, do it," he told the evangelicals. "You will be doing the Lord’s work, and He will richly bless you for it."

Sorry, but today's so called conservatives are not even remotely conservative. And it is not just social policy.

Goldwater voted against Kennedy's tax cuts. He felt that the conservative position was that you pay your own way -- you don't balance your budget on the backs of future generations.

Reagan took us from being the biggest creditor nation the world had ever known to being the biggest debtor nation the world had ever known in three years.

Conservatives, historically, have been non-interventionist -- although I'm not so sure that Goldwater was. I can defend the invasion of Afghanistan in conservative terms but I cannot explain Iraq. It was nothing if not interventionist.

Yoda out...

[Yoda]

Jul 9, 2010 15:22:11 GMT -8 afan said:

Once again Yoda, nonsense. Tell me Goldwater would be down with Nationalized Healthcare. Tell me he would think that the government owning and operating an auto manufacturer would be the correct policy prescription. Goldwater, without question, would consider these actions anathema to conservative ideals. Try as you might, you cannot simply "morph" Barry ( The good Barry)into a European style Social Democrat.

You have a valid point about his libertarian social views. You're way off-base if you think that an expansive (socialist...deal with it..) Federal government is something with which he would agree.

We don't have nationalized healthcare -- we have a hybrid between private and public healthcare. That said, I would guess that Goldwater would most likely not have voted for it.

But at the same time, he seemed to me to possess a kind of intellectual honesty about the issues that is entirely lacking in today's so called debate. I don't believe that he would have called it "nationalized healthcare", for example, because that's not honest. It's just the spin of the extreme right and spin has nothing to do with honesty. Kind of like the non-existent "death panels".

As for owning and operating GM, bailing out AIG, etc. I can appreciate that he would have abhorred that notion. But I think that most people, regardless of their political philosophy, abhorred it. I certainly did. But that doesn't mean that I opposed it.

The times were extraordinary and the effort was made in an attempt to prevent another Great Depression. Given that Berneke was an expert on the first Great Depression and given what we learned from it, a lot of conservatives and moderates supported the efforts that Bush and Obama were both making. It's only after a Depression had been avoided that most of the extreme right came to have the luxury to attack those actions.

I think that everybody will be happy when these efforts are wound down, because nobody is comfortable with government ownership and operation of "private" enterprise.

I forget, do we still own GM? They paid us back what they owed to us but I'm not sure if that was just loan money or if they got their stock back at the same time.

Edit: Found the answer at MSNBC.com

"Lost in today's SCOTUS, financial reform, and even immigration news was this pretty big story: "General Motors Co. on Wednesday said it paid off a $6.7 billion U.S. government loan ahead of schedule in a move the company hopes will help revive an image marred by last year's bailout," the Wall Street Journal writes. "The loan is a fraction of the $50 billion GM received from the U.S. government last year. The big payback will come when GM goes public and the U.S. can begin to sell off its 60% stake in the company."

Yoda out...

[ptsdthor]

Naw, Obamacare isn't the government takeover of health care, it is the government ruination of health care.

www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/tom-price-healthcare-democrats/2010/03/20/id/353358

And Goldwater would have puked on it.

1. Grant program for consumer assistance offices (Section 1002, p. 37)
2. Grant program for states to monitor premium increases (Section 1003, p. 42)
3. Committee to review administrative simplification standards (Section 1104, p. 71)
4. Demonstration program for state wellness programs (Section 1201, p. 93)
5. Grant program to establish state Exchanges (Section 1311(a), p. 130)
6. State American Health Benefit Exchanges (Section 1311(b), p. 131)
7. Exchange grants to establish consumer navigator programs (Section 1311(i), p. 150)
8. Grant program for state cooperatives (Section 1322, p. 169)
9. Advisory board for state cooperatives (Section 1322(b)(3), p. 173)
10. Private purchasing council for state cooperatives (Section 1322(d), p. 177)
11. State basic health plan programs (Section 1331, p. 201)
12. State-based reinsurance program (Section 1341, p. 226)
13. Program of risk corridors for individual and small group markets (Section 1342, p. 233)
14. Program to determine eligibility for Exchange participation (Section 1411, p. 267)
15. Program for advance determination of tax credit eligibility (Section 1412, p. 288)
16. Grant program to implement health IT enrollment standards (Section 1561, p. 370)
17. Federal Coordinated Health Care Office for dual eligible beneficiaries (Section 2602, p. 512)
18. Medicaid quality measurement program (Section 2701, p. 518)
19. Medicaid health home program for people with chronic conditions, and grants for planning same (Section 2703, p. 524)
20. Medicaid demonstration project to evaluate bundled payments (Section 2704, p. 532)
21. Medicaid demonstration project for global payment system (Section 2705, p. 536)
22. Medicaid demonstration project for accountable care organizations (Section 2706, p. 538)
23. Medicaid demonstration project for emergency psychiatric care (Section 2707, p. 540)
24. Grant program for delivery of services to individuals with postpartum depression (Section 2952(b), p. 591)
25. State allotments for grants to promote personal responsibility education programs (Section 2953, p. 596)
26. Medicare value-based purchasing program (Section 3001(a), p. 613)
27. Medicare value-based purchasing demonstration program for critical access hospitals (Section 3001(b), p. 637)
28. Medicare value-based purchasing program for skilled nursing facilities (Section 3006(a), p. 666)
29. Medicare value-based purchasing program for home health agencies (Section 3006(b), p. 668)
30. Interagency Working Group on Health Care Quality (Section 3012, p. 688)
31. Grant program to develop health care quality measures (Section 3013, p. 693)
32. Center for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation (Section 3021, p. 712)
33. Medicare shared savings program (Section 3022, p. 728)
34. Medicare pilot program on payment bundling (Section 3023, p. 739)
35. Independence at home medical practice demonstration program (Section 3024, p. 752)
36. Program for use of patient safety organizations to reduce hospital readmission rates (Section 3025(b), p. 775)
37. Community-based care transitions program (Section 3026, p. 776)
38. Demonstration project for payment of complex diagnostic laboratory tests (Section 3113, p. 800)
39. Medicare hospice concurrent care demonstration project (Section 3140, p. 850)
40. Independent Payment Advisory Board (Section 3403, p. 982)
41. Consumer Advisory Council for Independent Payment Advisory Board (Section 3403, p. 1027)
42. Grant program for technical assistance to providers implementing health quality practices (Section 3501, p. 1043)
43. Grant program to establish interdisciplinary health teams (Section 3502, p. 1048)
44. Grant program to implement medication therapy management (Section 3503, p. 1055)
45. Grant program to support emergency care pilot programs (Section 3504, p. 1061)
46. Grant program to promote universal access to trauma services (Section 3505(b), p. 1081)
47. Grant program to develop and promote shared decision-making aids (Section 3506, p. 1088)
48. Grant program to support implementation of shared decision-making (Section 3506, p. 1091)
49. Grant program to integrate quality improvement in clinical education (Section 3508, p. 1095)
50. Health and Human Services Coordinating Committee on Women’s Health (Section 3509(a), p. 1098)
51. Centers for Disease Control Office of Women’s Health (Section 3509(b), p. 1102)
52. Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality Office of Women’s Health (Section 3509(e), p. 1105)
53. Health Resources and Services Administration Office of Women’s Health (Section 3509(f), p. 1106)
54. Food and Drug Administration Office of Women’s Health (Section 3509(g), p. 1109)
55. National Prevention, Health Promotion, and Public Health Council (Section 4001, p. 1114)
56. Advisory Group on Prevention, Health Promotion, and Integrative and Public Health (Section 4001(f), p. 1117)
57. Prevention and Public Health Fund (Section 4002, p. 1121)
58. Community Preventive Services Task Force (Section 4003(b), p. 1126)
59. Grant program to support school-based health centers (Section 4101, p. 1135)
60. Grant program to promote research-based dental caries disease management (Section 4102, p. 1147)
61. Grant program for States to prevent chronic disease in Medicaid beneficiaries (Section 4108, p. 1174)
62. Community transformation grants (Section 4201, p. 1182)
63. Grant program to provide public health interventions (Section 4202, p. 1188)
64. Demonstration program of grants to improve child immunization rates (Section 4204(b), p. 1200)
65. Pilot program for risk-factor assessments provided through community health centers (Section 4206, p. 1215)
66. Grant program to increase epidemiology and laboratory capacity (Section 4304, p. 1233)
67. Interagency Pain Research Coordinating Committee (Section 4305, p. 1238)
68. National Health Care Workforce Commission (Section 5101, p. 1256)
69. Grant program to plan health care workforce development activities (Section 5102(c), p. 1275)
70. Grant program to implement health care workforce development activities (Section 5102(d), p. 1279)
71. Pediatric specialty loan repayment program (Section 5203, p. 1295)
72. Public Health Workforce Loan Repayment Program (Section 5204, p. 1300)
73. Allied Health Loan Forgiveness Program (Section 5205, p. 1305)
74. Grant program to provide mid-career training for health professionals (Section 5206, p. 1307)
75. Grant program to fund nurse-managed health clinics (Section 5208, p. 1310)
76. Grant program to support primary care training programs (Section 5301, p. 1315)
77. Grant program to fund training for direct care workers (Section 5302, p. 1322)
78. Grant program to develop dental training programs (Section 5303, p. 1325)
79. Demonstration program to increase access to dental health care in underserved communities (Section 5304, p. 1331)
80. Grant program to promote geriatric education centers (Section 5305, p. 1334)
81. Grant program to promote health professionals entering geriatrics (Section 5305, p. 1339)
82. Grant program to promote training in mental and behavioral health (Section 5306, p. 1344)
83. Grant program to promote nurse retention programs (Section 5309, p. 1354)
84. Student loan forgiveness for nursing school faculty (Section 5311(b), p. 1360)
85. Grant program to promote positive health behaviors and outcomes (Section 5313, p. 1364)
86. Public Health Sciences Track for medical students (Section 5315, p. 1372)
87. Primary Care Extension Program to educate providers (Section 5405, p. 1404)
88. Grant program for demonstration projects to address health workforce shortage needs (Section 5507, p. 1442)
89. Grant program for demonstration projects to develop training programs for home health aides (Section 5507, p. 1447)
90. Grant program to establish new primary care residency programs (Section 5508(a), p. 1458)
91. Program of payments to teaching health centers that sponsor medical residency training (Section 5508(c), p. 1462)
92. Graduate nurse education demonstration program (Section 5509, p. 1472)
93. Grant program to establish demonstration projects for community-based mental health settings (Section 5604, p. 1486)
94. Commission on Key National Indicators (Section 5605, p. 1489)
95. Quality assurance and performance improvement program for skilled nursing facilities (Section 6102, p. 1554)
96. Special focus facility program for skilled nursing facilities (Section 6103(a)(3), p. 1561)
97. Special focus facility program for nursing facilities (Section 6103(b)(3), p. 1568)
98. National independent monitor pilot program for skilled nursing facilities and nursing facilities (Section 6112, p. 1589)
99. Demonstration projects for nursing facilities involved in the culture change movement (Section 6114, p. 1597)
100. Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute (Section 6301, p. 1619)
101. Standing methodology committee for Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute (Section 6301, p. 1629)
102. Board of Governors for Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute (Section 6301, p. 1638)
103. Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Trust Fund (Section 6301(e), p. 1656)
104. Elder Justice Coordinating Council (Section 6703, p. 1773)
105. Advisory Board on Elder Abuse, Neglect, and Exploitation (Section 6703, p. 1776)
106. Grant program to create elder abuse forensic centers (Section 6703, p. 1783)
107. Grant program to promote continuing education for long-term care staffers (Section 6703, p. 1787)
108. Grant program to improve management practices and training (Section 6703, p. 1788)
109. Grant program to subsidize costs of electronic health records (Section 6703, p. 1791)
110. Grant program to promote adult protective services (Section 6703, p. 1796)
111. Grant program to conduct elder abuse detection and prevention (Section 6703, p. 1798)
112. Grant program to support long-term care ombudsmen (Section 6703, p. 1800)
113. National Training Institute for long-term care surveyors (Section 6703, p. 1806)
114. Grant program to fund State surveys of long-term care residences (Section 6703, p. 1809)
115. CLASS Independence Fund (Section 8002, p. 1926)
116. CLASS Independence Fund Board of Trustees (Section 8002, p. 1927)
117. CLASS Independence Advisory Council (Section 8002, p. 1931)
118. Personal Care Attendants Workforce Advisory Panel (Section 8002(c), p. 1938)
119. Multi-state health plans offered by Office of Personnel Management (Section 10104(p), p. 2086)
120. Advisory board for multi-state health plans (Section 10104(p), p. 2094)
121. Pregnancy Assistance Fund (Section 10212, p. 2164)
122. Value-based purchasing program for ambulatory surgical centers (Section 10301, p. 2176)
123. Demonstration project for payment adjustments to home health services (Section 10315, p. 2200)
124. Pilot program for care of individuals in environmental emergency declaration areas (Section 10323, p. 2223)
125. Grant program to screen at-risk individuals for environmental health conditions (Section 10323(b), p. 2231)
126. Pilot programs to implement value-based purchasing (Section 10326, p. 2242)
127. Grant program to support community-based collaborative care networks (Section 10333, p. 2265)
128. Centers for Disease Control Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)
129. Health Resources and Services Administration Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)
130. Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)
131. Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)
132. Food and Drug Administration Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)
133. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)
134. Grant program to promote small business wellness programs (Section 10408, p. 2285)
135. Cures Acceleration Network (Section 10409, p. 2289)
136. Cures Acceleration Network Review Board (Section 10409, p. 2291)
137. Grant program for Cures Acceleration Network (Section 10409, p. 2297)
138. Grant program to promote centers of excellence for depression (Section 10410, p. 2304)
139. Advisory committee for young women’s breast health awareness education campaign (Section 10413, p. 2322)
140. Grant program to provide assistance to provide information to young women with breast cancer (Section 10413, p. 2326)
141. Interagency Access to Health Care in Alaska Task Force (Section 10501, p. 2329)
142. Grant program to train nurse practitioners as primary care providers (Section 10501(e), p. 2332)
143. Grant program for community-based diabetes prevention (Section 10501(g), p. 2337)
144. Grant program for providers who treat a high percentage of medically underserved populations (Section 10501(k), p. 2343)
145. Grant program to recruit students to practice in underserved communities (Section 10501(l), p. 2344)
146. Community Health Center Fund (Section 10503, p. 2355)
147. Demonstration project to provide access to health care for the uninsured at reduced fees (Section 10504, p. 2357)
148. Demonstration program to explore alternatives to tort litigation (Section 10607, p. 2369)
149. Indian Health demonstration program for chronic shortages of health professionals (S. 1790, Section 112, p. 24)*
150. Office of Indian Men’s Health (S. 1790, Section 136, p. 71)*
151. Indian Country modular component facilities demonstration program (S. 1790, Section 146, p. 108)*
152. Indian mobile health stations demonstration program (S. 1790, Section 147, p. 111)*
153. Office of Direct Service Tribes (S. 1790, Section 172, p. 151)*
154. Indian Health Service mental health technician training program (S. 1790, Section 181, p. 173)*
155. Indian Health Service program for treatment of child sexual abuse victims (S. 1790, Section 181, p. 192)*
156. Indian Health Service program for treatment of domestic violence and sexual abuse (S. 1790, Section 181, p. 194)*
157. Indian youth telemental health demonstration project (S. 1790, Section 181, p. 204)*
158. Indian youth life skills demonstration project (S. 1790, Section 181, p. 220)*
159. Indian Health Service Director of HIV/AIDS Prevention and Treatment (S. 1790, Section 199B, p. 258)*

[aztecwin]

Jul 10, 2010 8:01:42 GMT -8 Yoda said:

Jul 9, 2010 12:03:27 GMT -8 aztecwin said:

Bizaro! You just can not prove most of that and allthough social issues are very important to Conservatives, Defense and the Economy trump any of those social isses.

I can't prove most of what? My conclusion that Goldwater would be a Democrat or my statements about his position on various issues?

I obviously can't prove that he would be a Democrat -- although I'm fairly certain that AZ Republicans would toss him out in the primary so if he wanted to get re-elected today, he'd have to be a Democrat.

My statements about his position on the issues, came straight from his public statements and interviews with him and are easily proven -- assuming that you believe direct quotes. Quotes like this...

==============================

"If they succeed in establishing religion as a basic Republican Party tenet," he told U.S. News & World Report in 1994, "they could do us in."

"Well, I've spent quite a number of years carrying the flag of the 'Old Conservatism.' And I can say with conviction that the religious issues of these groups have little or nothing to do with conservative or liberal politics. The uncompromising position of these groups is a divisive element that could tear apart the very spirit of our representative system, if they gain sufficient strength."

Insisted Goldwater, "Being a conservative in America traditionally has meant that one holds a deep, abiding respect for the Constitution. We conservatives believe sincerely in the integrity of the Constitution. We treasure the freedoms that document protects....

"By maintaining the separation of church and state," he explained, "the United States has avoided the intolerance which has so divided the rest of the world with religious wars .... Can any of us refute the wisdom of Madison and the other framers? Can anyone look at the carnage in Iran, the bloodshed in Northern Ireland, or the bombs bursting in Lebanon and yet question the dangers of injecting religious issues into the affairs of state:"

Goldwater concluded with a warning to the American people.

"The religious factions will go on imposing their will on others," he said, "unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives...

"We have succeeded for 205 years in keeping the affairs of state separate from the uncompromising idealism of religious groups and we mustn't stop now," he insisted. "To retreat from that separation would violate the principles of conservatism and the values upon which the framers built this democratic republic."

==============================

And this...

==============================

In 1994 he told The Los Angeles Times, "A lot of so-called conservatives don't know what the word means. They think I've turned liberal because I believe a woman has a right to an abortion. That's a decision that's up to the pregnant woman, not up to the pope or some do-gooders or the Religious Right. It's not a conservative issue at all."

==============================

There are lots more out there.

Contrast Goldwater's views on the separation of church and state with those of (so-called) Conservative Republican Sen. James Inhofe, of Oklahoma, who said at a Christian Coalition convention in 2002,"If you have the opportunity to get a few liberals out of office, do it," he told the evangelicals. "You will be doing the Lord’s work, and He will richly bless you for it."

Sorry, but today's so called conservatives are not even remotely conservative. And it is not just social policy.

Goldwater voted against Kennedy's tax cuts. He felt that the conservative position was that you pay your own way -- you don't balance your budget on the backs of future generations.

Reagan took us from being the biggest creditor nation the world had ever known to being the biggest debtor nation the world had ever known in three years.

Conservatives, historically, have been non-interventionist -- although I'm not so sure that Goldwater was. I can defend the invasion of Afghanistan in conservative terms but I cannot explain Iraq. It was nothing if not interventionist.

Yoda out...

You took a whole lot of space up to basically agree with what I said, but could not even state the logical conclusion.

[The Great Aztec Joe]

Jul 9, 2010 6:42:57 GMT -8 Yoda said:

Today's so-called "conservatives" are not, in any way shape or form, conservative. They don't meet any definition of the word -- except their own. They've hijacked the term but they not only don't believe in its principals they are diametrically opposed so some of them.

Barry Goldwater is generally credited with having founded the conservative movement and the movement that he founded was heavily influenced by libertarian principals. He believed that government should stay out of people's private lives. Not just out of the lives of the conservatives but out of the lives of the liberals as well. Today's so-called conservatives reject the very libertarian principals that the Conservative movement was grounded in and have replaced it with anti-libertarian principles from the Christian right.

~ Goldwater was pro-choice. Today's so-called conservatives are anti-choice.

~ Goldwater was pro gays in the military. Today's so-called conservatives are against it.

~ Goldwater was an environmentalist. Today's so-called conservatives are not so much.

~ Goldwater was a strong proponent of the separation of Church and State. Today's so-called conservatives (especially in the south) wrap themselves in the flag and are more inclined to turn to the bible than the constitution for their guiding political principals.

A few years before his death Goldwater went so far as to address the right wing, "Do not associate my name with anything you do. You are extremists, and you've hurt the Republican party much more than the Democrats have."

If he were alive today, "Mr. Conservative" would be a Democrat -- fighting the very people who have stolen and molested the conservative term and movement. And if by chance he were running for re-election as a Republican, he'd be in grave danger of losing his primary.

Yoda out...

Yoda, when I saw the headline I was going to disagree with you. When I read what you wrote, I realized that you were right.

Now, what are we overlooking?

[The Great Aztec Joe]

Jul 9, 2010 8:46:06 GMT -8 ptsdthor said:

First and foremost, Goldwater was a big national security proponent which is not in keeping with today's Democrats and second, he was pro-private sector, for low taxes and limited government which would generate another set of "you are not welcome" signs from today's Democratic party.

The fact that he was libertarian is his views about social issues would not make him an a Democrat. There are a ton of socially liberal Republicans who are hawkish and economically conservative. See Ron Paul, Arnold, etc. Sure, he may not be in a national leadership position, but he wouldn't go to the dark side simply for the sake of single issue politics.

NEXT.

Gosh, Son of Thor, you are right, too, now that you have expanded the topic.

[ptsdthor]

Jul 11, 2010 18:57:11 GMT -8 The Great Aztec Joe said:

Jul 9, 2010 8:46:06 GMT -8 ptsdthor said:

First and foremost, Goldwater was a big national security proponent which is not in keeping with today's Democrats and second, he was pro-private sector, for low taxes and limited government which would generate another set of "you are not welcome" signs from today's Democratic party.

The fact that he was libertarian is his views about social issues would not make him an a Democrat. There are a ton of socially liberal Republicans who are hawkish and economically conservative. See Ron Paul, Arnold, etc. Sure, he may not be in a national leadership position, but he wouldn't go to the dark side simply for the sake of single issue politics.

NEXT.

Gosh, Son of Thor, you are right, too, now that you have expanded the topic.

Mr. N.,

Nice to hear from you. I look forward to seeing your "unique" perspectives now and again ;D

[Yoda]

Jul 10, 2010 8:49:41 GMT -8 ptsdthor said:

Naw, Obamacare isn't the government takeover of health care, it is the government ruination of health care.

And Goldwater would have puked on it.

No, it is not the government takeover of health care -- if it were it would not have been supported by the AMA and the health insurance companies. Duh...

I'm not an expert on the legislation but, clearly the government now has a more activist role in health care than it did a few months ago. But a "takeover" is nothing more than another typical right wing attempt to scare people through the use of dishonest buzz words. Death panels. Where is the intellectual integrity on the right? At what point do you call out your own for its dishonesty?

As for the long table of contents, while that legislation was longer than most, you can find a long table on contents in most groundbreaking legislation -- whether it is supported by the left or the right. One of the reasons that this one is so long is because Obama made so many compromises.

In fact, the left is ticked off at him for having made so many compromises -- they wanted a real government takeover of health care. You're treating "Obamacare" as if they got it.

Yoda out...