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Post by Aztec89 on Jul 8, 2010 15:06:22 GMT -8
That makes 10 for 10 on Russians.
0 for 14,500,000 Mexicans.
Hmmmm.
Those Russians must have registered Republican.
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Post by Hip Action Mania on Jul 8, 2010 16:25:22 GMT -8
That makes 10 for 10 on Russians. 0 for 14,500,000 Mexicans. Hmmmm. Those Russians must have registered Republican. Isn't the ruble to peso exchange like, 10,000,000 to ten million? |
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Post by monty on Jul 8, 2010 16:39:24 GMT -8
Are you open for prosecuting those industries, corporations, small business and individuals that employ illegal immigrants? If I want to quell a fire I don't move it to a different location, I remove its oxygen.
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Post by aztec70 on Jul 8, 2010 19:10:37 GMT -8
Are you open for prosecuting those industries, corporations, small business and individuals that employ illegal immigrants? If I want to quell a fire I don't move it to a different location, I remove its oxygen. Please, do not ask obvious questions.  |
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 9, 2010 11:58:47 GMT -8
Are you open for prosecuting those industries, corporations, small business and individuals that employ illegal immigrants? If I want to quell a fire I don't move it to a different location, I remove its oxygen. Please, do not ask obvious questions. Nor obvious answers! Of course there should be tools in place to make sure you don't hire illegals. Start with sealing the border and getting a good foolproof way of telling who is legal. |
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Post by monty on Jul 9, 2010 13:43:47 GMT -8
Please, do not ask obvious questions. Nor obvious answers! Of course there should be tools in place to make sure you don't hire illegals. Start with sealing the border and getting a good foolproof way of telling who is legal. It is a rather big border and there is a rather large discrepancy between average or even below average quality of life on one side versus the other. A room with a lot of gas next to a room with one with none or a cell are going to have a tough time building a wall or a membrane to keep the stuff from sneaking in. There is quite the incentive for people from Mexico, Central America and elsewhere to sneak into the country; there are limited resources or options to fully keep them out; and there are whole groups of people and business in this country that profit off them coming (many of the same that are outspoken about them being here). That there are illegals in this country is the consequent/the symptom, and if we want to ever really tackle the issue we need to address the antecedent/the root that creates the conditions for them to enter, survive and remain here illegally. It is not the 'they do jobs other americans won't do' it is they do them for often less wages, more hours or better. We also have to address how the black market affects this situation, and how many of the less than savory characters that terrorize the border towns or set up shop on this side are there because of prohibition? |
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Post by aztec70 on Jul 9, 2010 16:00:29 GMT -8
One of my very conservative officemates is very upset because her favorite restaurant is in deep trouble in INS and may be shut down. I asked if this was the not the restaurant in La Jolla that had serial violations for hiring illegal aliens. Yes, she replyed. Were you not just the other day bemoaning our lack of border control? Yes, she replyed. Don't you see the connection here, I asked. This was different, it was her favorite restaurant, she told me.
That is the problem.
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 10, 2010 6:14:56 GMT -8
Nor obvious answers! Of course there should be tools in place to make sure you don't hire illegals. Start with sealing the border and getting a good foolproof way of telling who is legal. It is a rather big border and there is a rather large discrepancy between average or even below average quality of life on one side versus the other. A room with a lot of gas next to a room with one with none or a cell are going to have a tough time building a wall or a membrane to keep the stuff from sneaking in. There is quite the incentive for people from Mexico, Central America and elsewhere to sneak into the country; there are limited resources or options to fully keep them out; and there are whole groups of people and business in this country that profit off them coming (many of the same that are outspoken about them being here). That there are illegals in this country is the consequent/the symptom, and if we want to ever really tackle the issue we need to address the antecedent/the root that creates the conditions for them to enter, survive and remain here illegally. It is not the 'they do jobs other americans won't do' it is they do them for often less wages, more hours or better. We also have to address how the black market affects this situation, and how many of the less than savory characters that terrorize the border towns or set up shop on this side are there because of prohibition? So what do you suggest? Do nothing? With the government of Mexico in a war with Drug Cartels and Smugglers on their side of the border, don't you think we should exert some effort? Don't you think that Obama's suit against Arizona is funny? They are suing AZ and its attempt to do something in order to exert the right of the Feds to do nothing. |
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 10, 2010 6:18:04 GMT -8
One of my very conservative officemates is very upset because her favorite restaurant is in deep trouble in INS and may be shut down. I asked if this was the not the restaurant in La Jolla that had serial violations for hiring illegal aliens. Yes, she replyed. Were you not just the other day bemoaning our lack of border control? Yes, she replyed. Don't you see the connection here, I asked. This was different, it was her favorite restaurant, she told me. That is the problem. Did you tell her they could stay open with legal help? Prices might go up a little, but their competition is or should be in the same boat. We sure let this thread wonder off! |
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Post by monty on Jul 10, 2010 7:39:00 GMT -8
It is a rather big border and there is a rather large discrepancy between average or even below average quality of life on one side versus the other. A room with a lot of gas next to a room with one with none or a cell are going to have a tough time building a wall or a membrane to keep the stuff from sneaking in. There is quite the incentive for people from Mexico, Central America and elsewhere to sneak into the country; there are limited resources or options to fully keep them out; and there are whole groups of people and business in this country that profit off them coming (many of the same that are outspoken about them being here). That there are illegals in this country is the consequent/the symptom, and if we want to ever really tackle the issue we need to address the antecedent/the root that creates the conditions for them to enter, survive and remain here illegally. It is not the 'they do jobs other americans won't do' it is they do them for often less wages, more hours or better. We also have to address how the black market affects this situation, and how many of the less than savory characters that terrorize the border towns or set up shop on this side are there because of prohibition? So what do you suggest? Do nothing? With the government of Mexico in a war with Drug Cartels and Smugglers on their side of the border, don't you think we should exert some effort? Don't you think that Obama's suit against Arizona is funny? They are suing AZ and its attempt to do something in order to exert the right of the Feds to do nothing. Throw the book with fines at those that hire illegal immigrants, legalize pot, long-term efforts to do the opposite of what we did in the 60s/70s/80s which was destabilize latin america. |
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 10, 2010 12:25:53 GMT -8
So what do you suggest? Do nothing? With the government of Mexico in a war with Drug Cartels and Smugglers on their side of the border, don't you think we should exert some effort? Don't you think that Obama's suit against Arizona is funny? They are suing AZ and its attempt to do something in order to exert the right of the Feds to do nothing. Throw the book with fines at those that hire illegal immigrants, legalize pot, long-term efforts to do the opposite of what we did in the 60s/70s/80s which was destabilize latin america. I have trouble with the pot idea. If you made the pot legal and put a big enough tax on it to get some real revenue would a black market develop? I guess you could package it like cigarettes with a tax stamp and then impose a severe penalty for having pot that was not with its tax stamp I could go for it. |
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Post by monty on Jul 10, 2010 15:19:40 GMT -8
Throw the book with fines at those that hire illegal immigrants, legalize pot, long-term efforts to do the opposite of what we did in the 60s/70s/80s which was destabilize latin america. I have trouble with the pot idea. If you made the pot legal and put a big enough tax on it to get some real revenue would a black market develop? I guess you could package it like cigarettes with a tax stamp and then impose a severe penalty for having pot that was not with its tax stamp I could go for it. When I used to smoke pot almost a decade ago, good stuff was like 20 bucks for a gram of it, you can get better stuff at a dispensary now for something like that or 25/30 bucks. As it stands now, there are so many hands in the pie and the risk high enough - cartel, runners, the other side of the border cartel/gang distributors, local suppliers, people out of their house/dorm, etc, that if that type of network stays in place, the price isn't going down, and the available quality so high that it isn't a huge risk. Furthermore, moonshine and bathtup wine might be able to be procured cheaper, but the convenience and quality assures that most people are going to rite aid and grabbing an 18 pack. If you grew the stuff legally and bought it straight from humboldt and didn't have to hire mercenaries to monitor the farms, sneak it out through networks, funnel it through a bunch of local warlords, the price to produce (producing the cannabis plant is one of the easiest - we don't even have to get into it as a natural fiber) that it would be more than reasonable to assume a 100 percent tax is more than reasonable. You can't patent natural products, is that why it was made illegal and remains illegal 70 years later? |
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 10, 2010 15:32:49 GMT -8
I have trouble with the pot idea. If you made the pot legal and put a big enough tax on it to get some real revenue would a black market develop? I guess you could package it like cigarettes with a tax stamp and then impose a severe penalty for having pot that was not with its tax stamp I could go for it. When I used to smoke pot almost a decade ago, good stuff was like 20 bucks for a gram of it, you can get better stuff at a dispensary now for something like that or 25/30 bucks. As it stands now, there are so many hands in the pie and the risk high enough - cartel, runners, the other side of the border cartel/gang distributors, local suppliers, people out of their house/dorm, etc, that if that type of network stays in place, the price isn't going down, and the available quality so high that it isn't a huge risk. Furthermore, moonshine and bathtup wine might be able to be procured cheaper, but the convenience and quality assures that most people are going to rite aid and grabbing an 18 pack. If you grew the stuff legally and bought it straight from humboldt and didn't have to hire mercenaries to monitor the farms, sneak it out through networks, funnel it through a bunch of local warlords, the price to produce (producing the cannabis plant is one of the easiest - we don't even have to get into it as a natural fiber) that it would be more than reasonable to assume a 100 percent tax is more than reasonable. You can't patent natural products, is that why it was made illegal and remains illegal 70 years later? I am really hard against pot myself, but I guess that if it could be shown to really produce income and create jobs, I would look at it. I think anyone who would use that stuff for anything other than health reasons is stupid, just like too much booze is bad for you and so is tobacco. If people are that dumb, go ahead and make some tax money and create some jobs. Might make a dent in the four million and counting that Obama has lost. |
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Post by monty on Jul 10, 2010 15:43:42 GMT -8
When I used to smoke pot almost a decade ago, good stuff was like 20 bucks for a gram of it, you can get better stuff at a dispensary now for something like that or 25/30 bucks. As it stands now, there are so many hands in the pie and the risk high enough - cartel, runners, the other side of the border cartel/gang distributors, local suppliers, people out of their house/dorm, etc, that if that type of network stays in place, the price isn't going down, and the available quality so high that it isn't a huge risk. Furthermore, moonshine and bathtup wine might be able to be procured cheaper, but the convenience and quality assures that most people are going to rite aid and grabbing an 18 pack. If you grew the stuff legally and bought it straight from humboldt and didn't have to hire mercenaries to monitor the farms, sneak it out through networks, funnel it through a bunch of local warlords, the price to produce (producing the cannabis plant is one of the easiest - we don't even have to get into it as a natural fiber) that it would be more than reasonable to assume a 100 percent tax is more than reasonable. You can't patent natural products, is that why it was made illegal and remains illegal 70 years later? I am really hard against pot myself, but I guess that if it could be shown to really produce income and create jobs, I would look at it. I think anyone who would use that stuff for anything other than health reasons is stupid, just like too much booze is bad for you and so is tobacco. If people are that dumb, go ahead and make some tax money and create some jobs. Might make a dent in the four million and counting that Obama has lost. I don't want to get into a pot argument, but it is a vice/self-medicator like so many things in our society - booze, smokes, food, etc. Recreationally smoking marijuana is less of a problem than the other vices above in terms of health risks and societal impact |
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 10, 2010 16:12:11 GMT -8
I am really hard against pot myself, but I guess that if it could be shown to really produce income and create jobs, I would look at it. I think anyone who would use that stuff for anything other than health reasons is stupid, just like too much booze is bad for you and so is tobacco. If people are that dumb, go ahead and make some tax money and create some jobs. Might make a dent in the four million and counting that Obama has lost. I don't want to get into a pot argument, but it is a vice/self-medicator like so many things in our society - booze, smokes, food, etc. Recreationally smoking marijuana is less of a problem than the other vices above in terms of health risks and societal impact I won't argue that either. Just because I don't know all the answers. I have seen first hand the destruction from booze, drugs, and smoking cigs. Some people can handle it and some can not. Making things legal will not change that. |
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Post by monty on Jul 10, 2010 17:30:52 GMT -8
I don't want to get into a pot argument, but it is a vice/self-medicator like so many things in our society - booze, smokes, food, etc. Recreationally smoking marijuana is less of a problem than the other vices above in terms of health risks and societal impact I won't argue that either. Just because I don't know all the answers. I have seen first hand the destruction from booze, drugs, and smoking cigs. Some people can handle it and some can not. Making things legal will not change that. And prohibition hasn't either, let's make some money and earmark it directly for schools, mental health and rehab - things we have to pay for now, but with better funding will have impacts on our culture and quell some of the problems while also choking out a large amount of the incentive for the TJ cartel |
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Post by aztec70 on Jul 10, 2010 19:51:39 GMT -8
I don't want to get into a pot argument, but it is a vice/self-medicator like so many things in our society - booze, smokes, food, etc. Recreationally smoking marijuana is less of a problem than the other vices above in terms of health risks and societal impact I won't argue that either. Just because I don't know all the answers. I have seen first hand the destruction from booze, drugs, and smoking cigs. Some people can handle it and some can not. Making things legal will not change that. What it changes is the cost to society. The cost of drugs to society goes down, and a new income stream for government to pay for those costs is identified. What is not to like? |
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 11, 2010 9:46:38 GMT -8
I won't argue that either. Just because I don't know all the answers. I have seen first hand the destruction from booze, drugs, and smoking cigs. Some people can handle it and some can not. Making things legal will not change that. What it changes is the cost to society. The cost of drugs to society goes down, and a new income stream for government to pay for those costs is identified. What is not to like? Perhaps the best argument you could make. Find the best tax rate that optimize tax revenue but not so high that a large black market develops. We have not found that rate yet for tobacco, but keep trying. People dumb enough to partake should pay through the nose! |
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Post by monty on Jul 11, 2010 9:54:35 GMT -8
What it changes is the cost to society. The cost of drugs to society goes down, and a new income stream for government to pay for those costs is identified. What is not to like? Perhaps the best argument you could make. Find the best tax rate that optimize tax revenue but not so high that a large black market develops. We have not found that rate yet for tobacco, but keep trying. People dumb enough to partake should pay through the nose! There is a big black market for tobacco? |
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 11, 2010 10:05:31 GMT -8
Perhaps the best argument you could make. Find the best tax rate that optimize tax revenue but not so high that a large black market develops. We have not found that rate yet for tobacco, but keep trying. People dumb enough to partake should pay through the nose! There is a big black market for tobacco? Yes! They estimate that about 15% of tobacco sales go untaxed. www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/10/higher-cigarette-taxes-lu_n_96094.html |
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