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Post by k5james on Jul 8, 2010 16:47:50 GMT -8
As high as I am on Hillman, I don't think you can count out Deonte Williams either. He's actually played against D1 competition.
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Post by aztecalumn on Jul 8, 2010 16:51:49 GMT -8
sullivan will mainly be a fullback next year. so you will see hillman and sullivan in the backfield at the same time a lot. Also kazee and sullivan. Yea, that's what I meant: I could see Sullivan on the field all 3 downs, as a FB and in passing downs as an ace back - what is your read on edit: Hillman's ability to pass block? That will determine if he gets any or much time as a single back. Also, a few times they trotted out an inverted wishbone with a back 5-7 yards behind center and two backs 3-5 yards split rather wide shading the tackles - hell it was almost like a double wing meets wishbone its good having an athletic fullback, gives us more options. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2010 17:06:03 GMT -8
As high as I am on Hillman, I don't think you can count out Deonte Williams either. He's actually played against D1 competition. One game . . . but who's counting.  MD thinks Williams will be the starter. I think we're going to have a tailback by committee this year, with different guys being more effective depending on the opponent. You have to wonder whether Muema might not redshirt and if he's actually still in the picture, I hope Miller does too. Miller in particular needs to pack on sound lbs. if he's going to replace Sullivan at FB in 2011. In the meantime, I think Chad Young can spell Sullivan when necessary. |
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Post by monty on Jul 8, 2010 17:06:15 GMT -8
As high as I am on Hillman, I don't think you can count out Deonte Williams either. He's actually played against D1 competition. I keep forgetting about him even though when I do I like what I saw on tape, I like a guy that was frosh of the year in the Big Sky. |
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Post by monty on Jul 8, 2010 17:10:39 GMT -8
As high as I am on Hillman, I don't think you can count out Deonte Williams either. He's actually played against D1 competition. One game . . . but who's counting. MD thinks Williams will be the starter. I think we're going to have a tailback by committee this year, with different guys being more effective depending on the opponent. You have to wonder whether Muema might not redshirt and if he's actually still in the picture, I hope Miller does too. Miller in particular needs to pack on sound lbs. if he's going to replace Sullivan at FB in 2011. In the meantime, I think Chad Young can spell Sullivan when necessary. Unless we really need Muema on special teams, it might be best for him to redshirt - although he looks like a good get, not sure the carries are there for him and his size might make a perfect replacement (and improvement potentially) for the role Sullivan and Ronnie Brown at Auburn had. Down and distance are going to determine Young's usage - he surely won't be in split backs or single set back, but offset or regular I as a traditional full back lead blocker maybe running Iso or kicking out the end on power, sure if he's more than just a big body. |
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Post by dshawfan on Jul 8, 2010 17:54:41 GMT -8
sullivan will mainly be a fullback next year. so you will see hillman and sullivan in the backfield at the same time a lot. Also kazee and sullivan. Also, a few times they trotted out an inverted wishbone with a back 5-7 yards behind center and two backs 3-5 yards split rather wide shading the tackles - hell it was almost like a double wing meets wishbone Love this formation as it is balanced numbers wise and most times will force the defense to balance up as well. If by chance the defense does not balance itself, then you have a numbers advantage to one side of the formation. Very easy to "oppo" the play call to where the numbers are to your advantage. Also allows us to get our wings into the patterns real quickly and a 5 yard out becomes a 15 yard first down; seam routes, crossing routes and 2 man combo routes all are real possibilities from this formation. |
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Post by aztech on Jul 8, 2010 18:10:18 GMT -8
Also, a few times they trotted out an inverted wishbone with a back 5-7 yards behind center and two backs 3-5 yards split rather wide shading the tackles - hell it was almost like a double wing meets wishbone Love this formation as it is balanced numbers wise and most times will force the defense to balance up as well. If by chance the defense does not balance itself, then you have a numbers advantage to one side of the formation. Very easy to "oppo" the play call to where the numbers are to your advantage. Also allows us to get our wings into the patterns real quickly and a 5 yard out becomes a 15 yard first down; seam routes, crossing routes and 2 man combo routes all are real possibilities from this formation. How do the olinemen come into play with that setup? |
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 8, 2010 18:44:58 GMT -8
As high as I am on Hillman, I don't think you can count out Deonte Williams either. He's actually played against D1 competition. One game . . . but who's counting. MD thinks Williams will be the starter. I think we're going to have a tailback by committee this year, with different guys being more effective depending on the opponent. You have to wonder whether Muema might not redshirt and if he's actually still in the picture, I hope Miller does too. Miller in particular needs to pack on sound lbs. if he's going to replace Sullivan at FB in 2011. In the meantime, I think Chad Young can spell Sullivan when necessary. Muema says he is coming. Had something wrong with his eye. That is what started all the speculation. He says he will report Aug 8th. |
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Post by dshawfan on Jul 8, 2010 19:03:57 GMT -8
Love this formation as it is balanced numbers wise and most times will force the defense to balance up as well. If by chance the defense does not balance itself, then you have a numbers advantage to one side of the formation. Very easy to "oppo" the play call to where the numbers are to your advantage. Also allows us to get our wings into the patterns real quickly and a 5 yard out becomes a 15 yard first down; seam routes, crossing routes and 2 man combo routes all are real possibilities from this formation. How do the olinemen come into play with that setup? Not quite sure what you are asking here, could you give me some more info? Are you asking if the run game is feasible from this formation? |
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Post by gettough on Jul 8, 2010 19:22:46 GMT -8
These are the threads I've been waiting for! Sorry, I'm a know-nothing lurker unable to contribute substance. But i like what I'm reading. Just sayin' . . .
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Post by monty on Jul 8, 2010 19:39:52 GMT -8
Also, a few times they trotted out an inverted wishbone with a back 5-7 yards behind center and two backs 3-5 yards split rather wide shading the tackles - hell it was almost like a double wing meets wishbone Love this formation as it is balanced numbers wise and most times will force the defense to balance up as well. If by chance the defense does not balance itself, then you have a numbers advantage to one side of the formation. Very easy to "oppo" the play call to where the numbers are to your advantage. Also allows us to get our wings into the patterns real quickly and a 5 yard out becomes a 15 yard first down; seam routes, crossing routes and 2 man combo routes all are real possibilities from this formation. Totally agree, first time I saw them do it or at least do it a couple of times, I want to say it was the CSU game, I froze the play on tivo just to look at it and imagine what was possible. It is a pro set dream college formation. You have the ability for the backs to quickly chop down free rushers if they stay in, and as you said they are in great spots for all the 3 step drop routes and will be in instant space - absurdly fast developing screen/quick pitch plays are there, counters, traps, etc. And with personel of sullivan(or maybe Muema if he doesn't redshirt and gets carries) behind the center and kazee and hillman you have tons of balance. I think they motioned out of it a lot of the times (if I remember correctly) so it also opens up that possibility - say you are running well out of it, you can flex everyone (hell even empty the single set back) and exploit matchups/force a timeout). I'm interested in seeing more of that. Also maybe Umolo flexed off the line in more of a stand up position (motion the other reciever over and put even more pressure). Also, it might be a bit early for Hillman and Kazee in their career, but it would be nice if they could each handle some blitz pickups where they could both be on the field together for drives at a time and one or both could motion out as a reciever. In short: if we can block with 5 (or even with 6 and not 7-8), we could be very dangerous |
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Post by dshawfan on Jul 8, 2010 19:59:15 GMT -8
I love the "jet sweep" out of this formation. Bring one of the wings in motion at full speed across the formation. At about the time he hits the G/T gap snap the ball and simply hand it to him as he passes the QB. Since he is at full speed when he gets the ball he is on the perimeter of the defense in an instant. I would love to see Hillman at full tilt on the perimeter like this.
Of course the defense will begin to widen after being burnt by this and so as they adjust you adjust and run the same play but fake the jet sweep and run the trap behind it to the FB. While the D is fast flowing for the sweep, your FB is running all alone into the secondary.
Like you say there are lots of things that can be done from this look.
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Post by aztech on Jul 8, 2010 21:00:06 GMT -8
How do the olinemen come into play with that setup? Not quite sure what you are asking here, could you give me some more info? Are you asking if the run game is feasible from this formation? I meant, do you need a better than average oline to utilize that type of offense? |
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Post by dshawfan on Jul 8, 2010 22:00:13 GMT -8
Not quite sure what you are asking here, could you give me some more info? Are you asking if the run game is feasible from this formation? I meant, do you need a better than average oline to utilize that type of offense? Hmmm, good question. I wish I could give you a black and white answer. I guess my answer would be the more you spread the formation, the more difficult it is to protect as your extra protectors are more spread out. So pressure could really stress this formation. On the other hand since your skill people (wings) are in space they can run hot routes to the space vacated by blitzing LBs or DBs. Now if you execute the hot route before the defense can get to the passer you win. If not, they win. As I don't know if the Aztecs increase there line splits in this formation, I can't say for sure if you need a better lineman to handle the larger split or not. IMO, the more you put an OL in space the better OL you need to handle pass protection. But again conversely, large line splits create fantastic blocking angles for run blocking. With a better blocking angle, you don't need as dominating a physical presence along the OL. Sorry I am so back and forth on this but it really depends on the athletes you have and how you coach them up as to will your personnel fit your scheme. Maybe there are some things our staff thinks they can do out of this formation and at the same time things that we aren't ready to do just yet. I do think the coaches on this staff understand how to best utilize our players talents. Bottom line is the better your OL the better you can execute any offense be it spread, pro style, flexbone, run and shoot etc. I'm hoping the JC guys are an upgrade to the talent along the OL and that we see real improvement in terms of our offensive production this year. |
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Post by monty on Jul 8, 2010 22:05:37 GMT -8
I think we're going to have a tailback by committee this year I hope not. I tend to view it like I view QB's---if you have three, you don't really have any. Hopefully one of these guys will separate himself as a real DI back. Anymore no successful team has one running back that gets most of the carries and yards. You need 2 or 3 backs to get touches and you need 2 or 3 guys that give different looks and make defenses adjust. Nearly every position but QB and Oline is by committee now, and I wonder about the wisdom of at least one of those (but who historically has played those spots and still to some extent does and aren't those still considered somewhat 'thinkin'' positions?) |
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Post by k5james on Jul 8, 2010 22:07:09 GMT -8
Yeah that formation was pretty cool. Very similar to a flexbone.
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Post by monty on Jul 8, 2010 22:12:45 GMT -8
I meant, do you need a better than average oline to utilize that type of offense? Hmmm, good question. I wish I could give you a black and white answer. I guess my answer would be the more you spread the formation, the more difficult it is to protect as your extra protectors are more spread out. So pressure could really stress this formation. On the other hand since your skill people (wings) are in space they can run hot routes to the space vacated by blitzing LBs or DBs. Now if you execute the hot route before the defense can get to the passer you win. If not, they win. As I don't know if the Aztecs increase there line splits in this formation, I can't say for sure if you need a better lineman to handle the larger split or not. IMO, the more you put an OL in space the better OL you need to handle pass protection. But again conversely, large line splits create fantastic blocking angles for run blocking. With a better blocking angle, you don't need as dominating a physical presence along the OL. Sorry I am so back and forth on this but it really depends on the athletes you have and how you coach them up as to will your personnel fit your scheme. Maybe there are some things our staff thinks they can do out of this formation and at the same time things that we aren't ready to do just yet. I do think the coaches on this staff understand how to best utilize our players talents. Bottom line is the better your OL the better you can execute any offense be it spread, pro style, flexbone, run and shoot etc. I'm hoping the JC guys are an upgrade to the talent along the OL and that we see real improvement in terms of our offensive production this year. Also different types of lineman, if you're going to throw the ball every down (and even then is it 3 and 5 steps or 5 and 7 steps are you sending 5 in the pattern vertical or 3-5 and getting some hel), are you going to run the ball every down (again, is it straight ahead, or are you pulling) or are you having balance. If you want balance (which Borges more than a lot of coordinators wants) you have to have balanced lineman. We pulled a lot more last year than most Aztec teams (because we weren't in spread all the time) and so we're going to need some guys with some athleticism |
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Post by aztech on Jul 8, 2010 22:16:17 GMT -8
Bottom line is the better your OL the better you can execute any offense be it spread, pro style, flexbone, run and shoot etc. I'm hoping the JC guys are an upgrade to the talent along the OL and that we see real improvement in terms of our offensive production this year. I would find it hard to believe that group was brought here to sit on the bench. |
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Post by monty on Jul 8, 2010 22:20:03 GMT -8
Bottom line is the better your OL the better you can execute any offense be it spread, pro style, flexbone, run and shoot etc. I'm hoping the JC guys are an upgrade to the talent along the OL and that we see real improvement in terms of our offensive production this year. I would find it hard to believe that group was brought here to sit on the bench. Seriously, they brought in two tackles and an interior lineman for a reason, and not depth. They are going to have to stink up the field not to start this year. |
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Post by steveaztec on Jul 9, 2010 6:36:38 GMT -8
One game . . . but who's counting. MD thinks Williams will be the starter. I think we're going to have a tailback by committee this year, with different guys being more effective depending on the opponent. You have to wonder whether Muema might not redshirt and if he's actually still in the picture, I hope Miller does too. Miller in particular needs to pack on sound lbs. if he's going to replace Sullivan at FB in 2011. In the meantime, I think Chad Young can spell Sullivan when necessary. Muema says he is coming. Had something wrong with his eye. That is what started all the speculation. He says he will report Aug 8th. The staff is very excited about Muema. They really like him. |
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