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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on May 9, 2011 8:05:19 GMT -8
Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.
-Napoleon-
Napoleon was so very right. In fact, religion is what keeps the world even half way civil.
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Post by rolf tomato on May 9, 2011 11:28:28 GMT -8
I disagree. Religion doesn't keep the world "even halfway civil". The upper echelon people of religions live in luxury while they tithe and coax the poor to give up their hard earned dollars in the name of God. God is not to blame, but religions most certainly are. Money is nothing more than a way to control people. The rich control the poor. Religion is just another avenue of control. If there were no religions or money, this world would almost be heaven.
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Post by markyc on May 9, 2011 11:35:00 GMT -8
The rich send the poor to war to fight their battles, which are usually over religion.
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on May 9, 2011 17:14:47 GMT -8
The rich send the poor to war to fight their battles, which are usually over religion. Funny, as a historian, I know of very few religious wars in history. World War One was not a religious war. World War Two was not a religious war. The Korean War was not a religious war. The VietNam War was not a religious war. For a stricly religious war I guess I would have to go to the First Crusade as that one actually reached Jerusalem and claimed it for the Christian world. Most of the other crusades were essentially ineffectual in the Holy Land, but did help Christians take land back from the Moors in Portugal and Spain and did result in the taking of land and people in Eastern Europe (Think Teutonic Knights). A good argument could be made that these crusades were mostly motivated by conquest and the acquisition of wealth (The real reason for most wars.) When the Mongols swept out of Mongolia and into China. Their goal was conquest and not religious conversion. The Hindus fought a lot of wars, but most of them were fought to prevent invasion. When you get right down to it, the vast majority of people who have died in wars of mankind died to defend their land or died trying to take other people's land. Religion did not play that big of a role. |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on May 9, 2011 18:55:41 GMT -8
Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich. -Napoleon- Napoleon was so very right. In fact, religion is what keeps the world even half way civil. Sorry, but that's bull shiite. Kids get raised with ethics or they don't. Religion isn't a necessary requirement for being moral. Morality and the definition of it is a choice we all make and it's based upon what we are taught as children, by our parents. My decisions are somewhat based upon my Methodist up-bringing but they are far more based upon what my mother and grand-mother taught me about what was right. What is right is universal and it transcends religious beliefs. =Bob |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on May 10, 2011 7:28:31 GMT -8
Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich. -Napoleon- Napoleon was so very right. In fact, religion is what keeps the world even half way civil. Sorry, but that's bull shiite. Kids get raised with ethics or they don't. Religion isn't a necessary requirement for being moral. Morality and the definition of it is a choice we all make and it's based upon what we are taught as children, by our parents. My decisions are somewhat based upon my Methodist up-bringing but they are far more based upon what my mother and grand-mother taught me about what was right. What is right is universal and it transcends religious beliefs. =Bob You are partly right Bob. I was raised as an atheist and that is why I was so totally moral in my youth.?.!.? (Biffing pretty women was a recreational sport for me. Shooting guys I considered worthy of death did not bother my conscience one iota either.) Then I got some religion. It did not change me overnight, but I slowly was converted to a moral lifestyle. I still occasionally swear like a sailor and if somebody wants to get in my face, I will probably kill them as old habits are hard to shake. The simple fact of the matter is that religion has almost always been the vehicle that enforces moral and ethical compliance for the vast majority of the world's population. You can try to deny that if you want, but you will be wrong. I have taught my children that I believe that religion came about because mankind was trying to enforce their moral and ethical judgments on the younger generation. They could not tell children not to do this or that because Father said so, but if GOD!!!!!! said so, there was better compliance, unless the restrictions were oppressive. Witness the stress in conservative Islamic households when they see that their daughters are totally stripping and dancing for Web Cams in the privacy of their bedrooms. Oh the Anguish and Stress and Frustration of the Islamic parents!!! More than one daughter is going to be stoned or beheaded for this type of conduct. barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2009/01/17/saudi-girls-gone-wild/ |
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Post by 78aztec82 on May 12, 2011 12:15:14 GMT -8
The rich send the poor to war to fight their battles, which are usually over religion. Not accurate in any sense but makes a great slogan. The great thing of an all-volunteer military is the types of people who join and how diversity ensues. Generally, effort and initiative are rewarded, moreso than in society writ large. The military is truly the great melting pot of our society. The only negative thing about not having a draft or form of compulsary service is that the nation as a whole doesn't have to truly feel the weight of these wars, aren't paying the price like they did in the wars up to and including WWII. 1% of American families are affected by the direct aspect of the war, as was noted in the Washington Post recently. With that, those 1% come from all walks of life, rich and poor. |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on May 23, 2011 16:27:00 GMT -8
The rich send the poor to war to fight their battles, which are usually over religion. Not accurate in any sense but makes a great slogan. The great thing of an all-volunteer military is the types of people who join and how diversity ensues. Generally, effort and initiative are rewarded, moreso than in society writ large. The military is truly the great melting pot of our society. The only negative thing about not having a draft or form of compulsary service is that the nation as a whole doesn't have to truly feel the weight of these wars, aren't paying the price like they did in the wars up to and including WWII. 1% of American families are affected by the direct aspect of the war, as was noted in the Washington Post recently. With that, those 1% come from all walks of life, rich and poor. I think that's all pretty much true, but let me ramble a bit (not too long). One of the very real problems many of us had with Vietnam was kids were considered old enough to be drafted but not old enough to vote. So they were paying the price without any say in what elected officials were leading them into war. The point of this being that it seems this country engages in more wars (real wars, fought overseas, not internal wars such as Russia v. Chechnya) than most any other country on the planet and each side of the political spectrum has its own thoughts on which wars are justified. Joe is obviously trolling, as your response clearly points out,but is it possible that we should pull back on what much of the world sees as imperialistic tendencies? I don't believe this country is imperialistic, but we are engaged in 2.5 wars and it's bankrupting us. =Bob |
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Post by podpeople on May 23, 2011 16:39:58 GMT -8
One thing that I always found interesting is how people put so much emphasis on how religion is one of the major causes of all the problems on this planet... It troubles me that people tend to ignore the source of what troubles the people more than religion, and that is other people. People are the problem, not religion. Religion is nothing more than a vale for those in power to hide behind and mask their true agendas while at the same time satiating those whom cannot live in a world so bleak without a greater purpose. People have always been the problem.
that being said, most of the people I ahve met in my life have seemed to be alright in my book. I've met a few aholes, a few self absorbed eccentrics, but nothing to make me feel that we are not beyond help as a species. However, when power gets inviolved, when money begins to influence every decision one makes, and when those decisions may affect a population of millions... how can I even begin to relate to such a extreme idea. so, when you think of how the world is run, and how one must go about keeping control of the population, and how to influence those incapable of thinking for themselves, there are mechanisms in place to easily persuade, and one of those mechanisms is religion.
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jun 12, 2011 20:34:08 GMT -8
For the most part religion prevents conflict unless the conflict can not be avoided.
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jun 13, 2011 10:27:07 GMT -8
"Conflict not being avoided" is usually in the hands of politicians.
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jun 14, 2011 18:04:16 GMT -8
For the most part religion prevents conflict unless the conflict can not be avoided. Well, that's a rather simplistic view of political culture. =Bob |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jun 15, 2011 9:15:05 GMT -8
For the most part religion prevents conflict unless the conflict can not be avoided. Well, that's a rather simplistic view of political culture. =Bob Indeed, it is. Sometimes it is better to seek after simplicity as opposed to abstraction. It might be better understood by saying "In a very simplified sense, .................." |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jun 15, 2011 9:18:39 GMT -8
Consider this? If I had been "religious" in my twenties, would I have been a hard drinking, hard fighting sailor?
I probably would not have even been in that neighborhood and thus would have avoided conflict because of my religion.
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jun 17, 2011 16:15:05 GMT -8
Well, that's a rather simplistic view of political culture. =Bob Indeed, it is. Sometimes it is better to seek after simplicity as opposed to abstraction. It might be better understood by saying "In a very simplified sense, .................." Okay. That's somewhat Zen enough to get my attention. Still, political cultures tend to be complex. =Bob |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jul 2, 2011 19:28:45 GMT -8
Indeed, it is. Sometimes it is better to seek after simplicity as opposed to abstraction. It might be better understood by saying "In a very simplified sense, .................." Okay. That's somewhat Zen enough to get my attention. Still, political cultures tend to be complex. =Bob Fundamentalist Christians have a very simplified political agenda. Whatever they have been taught as of late is correct. Embrace it and support it, even if you think it might be wrong. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2011 11:15:04 GMT -8
The rich send the poor to war to fight their battles, which are usually over religion. No religion makes up about ten percent of wars,mostly ethnic and economic. That a Dawkins,Hitchen canard. |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jul 18, 2011 7:35:30 GMT -8
The rich send the poor to war to fight their battles, which are usually over religion. No religion makes up about ten percent of wars,mostly ethnic and economic. That a Dawkins,Hitchen canard. I'd accept that. |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jul 18, 2011 7:41:06 GMT -8
Considering the fact that the United States long delayed our entry into both World War One and Two because of the strong influence of German Lutheran and Quaker and Mennonite and other churches across the land I know that historically religion has worked to stay war.
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